Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Nazrethim]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I think you're mistaken in thinking that the rework was mainly about addressing player feedback. It was about a change in their own design philosophy. Feedback is used for suggestions and taken into consideration. They don't design the game by committee. Never said they would. They make feedback changes when that feedback matches and makes sense with their own internal design goals. 

There is also the feedback that we don't see. Vocal forum warriors is only a small part of the feedback DE considers. DE also has factual data based on what people are actually doing in the game. So no matter how much people yell in one thread that bladestorm is horrible (or great), DE can actually look at in game statistics to see how well or bad it performs. If they were to look at a snap shot of my data using bladestorm, they would see that I was more than effective while using the move. They would see that I used it often enough and that it was responsible for several kills. If they were to notice that Ash players don't use it at all then it would probably prompt change. We don't know what they see unless they share it.

Anecdotal evidence on forums is only part of the feedback they get.

What about BS in Conclave, where it is so useless that it's worse for the user than the victim.?

Edited January 10, 2018 by Nazrethim

[Hypernaut1]

39 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

What about BS in Conclave, where it is so useless that it's worse for the user than the victim.?

The way an ability works in conclave is irrelevant to the discussion. 

The conclave team could completely scrap it for conclave if they wants.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

42 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

The way an ability works in conclave is irrelevant to the discussion. 

The conclave team could completely scrap it for conclave if they wants.

They should scrap all powers in conclave. IMO (shrugs) but that's off topic. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

I like the idea of blade storm but the rest not so much. His 1st ability is fine as it is, the new idea sounds like its that secondary weapon called fursai or something (throws glass knives). Second idea,  check out wukong. 3rd idea just meh. Free teleport is cool but not worth the change :/

[Aldarin_Blackwing]

This is my latest concept from the random theory-crafting I do. Ash is still one of my favorite frames, but I've come to realize doesn't really feel that great to play. Often I just use him as an invisibility frame, with shuriken used because I'm feeling too lazy to target low-level targets.

So, Ash is definitely playable, but I still dream of having Ash  feel truly awesome to play, and thus why my brain continues to come back to theory-craft him again and again. This version takes into account a lot of suggestions proposed by other people and hopefully ties them all together into a more synergistic and team friendly frame.

As a preface, the previous version of bladestorm was not in a good state, being press 4 to win. The current version of Bladestorm is also not in a good version, due to slow targeting. It is also still hindered by animation lock, both of the player and of enemies. Shuriken is use-able with the augment, but also not in a great place since it hits so few in a horde game. Teleport requires it's augment and Covert Lethality to work well, which also puts it in a bad state (As relying on required extra insta-kill mods is not great mechanics). I also am not comparing Ash to any other frames, as there are many frames that are deserving of reworks and others that are OP. Ash is my original favorite frame, so he gets my time. No frame should face-roll content, the goal of a game is to have fun in an interactive way.

 

I'm basing everything on appropriate themes, and reusing most of the current frame. If you enjoy playing the current version, it should feel familiar playing this proposed rework. This suggestion is primarily targeted at the following.

1. Giving Ash somewhat unique mechanics while keeping all the old flavor.

2. Reducing the difficulty and redundancy of marking.

3. Creating Synergy between abilities while still having them usable individually.

This is primarily focused on concepts, as numbers are easily tweaked,

 

Ash, the Smoke Ninja

Themes: Smoke, Teleportation, Assassination/Finishers

Mechanics: Death Mark, Normal/Charged Abilities (Normal Abilities trigger on a normal press & release, If the ability is held/charged past a certain duration, the Charged Abilities is instead triggered).

Spoiler

When trying to rework ash, there are many things that make sense to make baseline, but would interfere with the play-ability of the abilities. There were also restrictions on ways to "mark" enemies due to the current set of abilities, most notably with long-range precision targeting.

The different abilities have minor differences in how they are trigger. Shuriken and Smoke Screen are supposed to be triggered with a similar rhythm as a throwing motion, with teleportation and blade-storm having slightly different triggers due to mechanics. The rhythm of ability use should flow along with the rhythm of the parkour system.

 

Passive: Assassin

• Hemorrhage: Any Slash Procs inflicted by Ash deal 100% more damage, but lasts 2/3 as long
  Spoiler

  133,% damage done over 4s instead of 6s. Less damage than current 187.5% over 9s,  but done quickly. Many of Ash's abilities do slash damage, but 9s is way too long to wait in a game as fast-paced as Warframe. Less damage overall, but should feel like better due to the duration change.

• Death Mark: Enemies can be given Death Marks. A Death Mark will cause an enemy to be highlighted (icon overhead) and take 50% extra damage for 30s. Marking a previously marked enemy refreshes duration and increases the number of marks on that enemy, up to a maximum of 3. 
  Spoiler

  One of the main issues with blade-storm is the slow rate of marking. Adding a marking effect to other abilities solves some of this issue, but only having that effect is somewhat lackluster. Making "Death Mark" more of a resource that is part of Ash's passive creates trade-offs and interesting interactions between abilities.

  "Death Mark" also contributes to communication and team-play. Ash can mark hard targets for team-mates to focus on, or in other cases show that these targets are already being taken care of. Additionally, by marking the marks visible to team-mates, it should also help eliminate the effect where allies kill marked targets before Blade Storm. It also adds a choice to Blade Storm, since each attack removes a mark (and thus some vulnerability).

• Twin Blades: Ash has a pair of hidden blades which are used for various abilities. These blades have a set of base weapon statistics, and are affected by Melee Weapon Mods.

Abilities

1.  Shuriken
   • Normal (Press+Release): Ash throws 2/2/3/3 shurikens which seek out enemies, each dealing 100/250/350/500 Slash damage with 100% status chance. Shuriken stagger enemies for 0.5s as they burst into smoke, marking all targets for death.

     • Number of shuriken is affected by power strength, but damage is not.

     • Stagger is affected by duration

     • Shuriken prioritize unmarked targets

   • Charged (Press+Hold): Ash throws a large Fuuma Shuriken in a straight line, piercing through enemies and dealing XXX slash damage with 100% status chance. Enemies damaged by shuriken are marked for death.
      
   • Augment Seeking Shuriken: Unchanged
     Spoiler

     Normal Use: Shuriken are used to soften up and mark targets, or to take out weaker enemies. This synergizes with the current augment, allowing Ash players to chose to soften up targets even more. Supportive of this use, Power Strength scales the number of shuriken instead of the amount of damage, which is useful due to the large number of enemies in the game. The shuriken prioritize unmarked targets to give slash procs a chance to kill off enemies, and to enable easier spreading of marks when dealing with larger groups of enemies. A short stagger proc fits the ninja utilization of shuriken primarily as distractions that were also used to sometimes scare or weaken enemies. 

     Charged Use: Given all the normal abilities, Ash still lacks a way to do long-range single target marking or damage. There are some suggestions to have a single non-homing shuriken in the normal ability, but I think it works well as a charged ability. A Fuuma Shuriken that can penetrate through enemies is thematically fitting of a stereotypical fantasy ninja, resolves the lack of precision long-range single target, and helps with Ash's lack of AoE, though it is still limited given the straight line. Thematically, I still say that Ash is using Typhokinesis to create shuriken, so it's not a huge issue to pull a giant one out of nowhere. This ability also fits the general new-player friendly line-targeting of 1 abilities.

     The current augment, Seeking Shuriken, fits the change well.

     Normal vs. Charged Triggers: The normal ability is triggered off a press and release. This is similar to the motion of a quick drawback and throw. The charged ability triggers if the button is pressed for longer than a set period of time. This prevents dual use of abilities while still making the triggers for each distinctive and intuitive. The charged ability does not need the button to be released to trigger, guaranteeing a Fuuma shuriken without the need for the player to guess when to release.

     
      
2. Smoke Screen
   • Normal (Press+Release): Ash crushes a smoke bomb in his hand, blinding nearby enemies inside the cloud for 2/4/6/8s and marking them for death. The smoke particles also turn any Allies(including self) inside the cloud invisible for 2/4/6/8s.

     • Invisibility is sight only as it comes from the smoke particles, it does not cause any sound muffling for the player or allies.

     • Blind and Invisibility effect only occur at initial trigger, it is not ongoing.

     • Ability can be recast (2s-ish cooldown), though the timer on the ability shows # secs of Ash’s invisibility remaining.

   • Charged (Press+Hold): Ash throws a smoke bomb at a target location instead

     • Has the same effects as the normal version

     • Note: Ash does not become invisible if not inside the smoke cloud.

   • Augment Cloud of Ash (Replacing Smoke Shadow): SmokeScreen also does X toxic and X fire damage for the duration, with guaranteed procs. Damage is affected by Power Strength.

     Spoiler

     Normal Use: Smoke Screen is used to get out of a bad situation, Blind enemies for finishers, or to enable Stealth. The modification is nearly identical to current, except it now affects allies in the cloud and blinds enemies instead of stagger. Inherent ally invisibility means that team-mates know that the game-changing ability is always there, and boosts cooperative play. Range is still limited, which encourages players to work together and also creates interesting choices with the Charged version. Thematically (and as implied by the smoke shadow augment), the effect of invisibility comes from manipulation of Ash's "Smoke" particles, which fits ally use. Blinding is fitting given it's smoke and the focus on finishers. Making the effect re-usable with a short cooldown period during the time period allows players to use the ability for multiple purposes and smooths out game-play. It is also necessary to make the mechanics of the normal vs. charged work. 

     Charged Use: Givens players somewhat more freedom in how to use the ability by allowing it to be thrown. This also allows for longer ranged marking of groups of targets. With the cooldown of the ability (2s or so), it should also create interesting choices by players, as they must choose between using it for themselves, using it to help out an ally, or using it on a group of enemies. 

     The Augment Cloud of Ash, replacing Smoke Shadow, makes Power Strength more relevant to the ability and adds additional thematically fitting AoE damage and CC to the ability (Think Volcanic Ash). Thus players can choose to focus a bit more on AoE damage, though given the frame them it should still be less effective that others due to the relatively short radius of Smoke Screen.

     Normal vs. Charged Trigger: Again, a press+release is fitting for the motion of pulling something out and throwing/crushing it. A long button hold fits a longer range throw for the charged trigger. Triggers are distinct and intuitive, tap a button(or panic spam) for more immediate use , or hold the button down for a less-immediate utility effect. Same as shuriken,  the charged ability does not need the button to be released to trigger, guaranteeing a throw without the need for the player to guess when to release.

      

3. Teleport
   • Normal(Press): Ash teleports to a target and performs a finisher attack with his Twin Blades for XXX% Damage.

     • Does not include allies or boxes/crates (Charged version takes care of this)

     • Expand Targeting to a small cone to be more forgiving at longer ranges.

   • Charged(Press+Hold): Ash teleports in a straight line in the target direction.

     • If Aim is held, will automatically wall latch if teleporting to a surface

   • Augment Kawarimi (Replaces Fatal Teleport): Spawns a clone at Ash’s original location for 10s, which attacks enemies within a small radius of that point with Ash’s twin blades with 10% normal damage. Limited to 1 clone at a time. % normal damage is affected by Power Strength. Clone duration is affected by Power Duration.

     Spoiler

     Normal Use: Teleport is used to teleport to and assassinate a target. It can be used as a damage and movement ability. Tying the twin blades in with the ability allows smoother gameplay, and since the action is guaranteed there is no reason to change the camera in an unpredictable fashion. By keeping the camera facing the original direction, it allows players to quickly assassinate a target and keep moving.

     Charged Use: Teleportation is also a movement ability. It can be used to stealthily bypass targets, and even allow teleportation from wall to wall in true shadow-ninja fashion. The charged use of the ability enable use even in maps where there are no enemies around (like PoE). Overall, this is an ability that thematically fits the frame, the name, and the game-play.

     The Augment Kawarimi is thematically fitting of RL ninja utilization, and is basically another smoke clone. Making it attack enemies in a small radius around the original point with the twin blades gives more life to this augment while still making it distinct from Loki's base ability.

     Normal vs. Charged Trigger: Both the normal and the charged version teleport along a line. Due to this, the charged mode is redundant if there is a target in the way (would teleport to the same place). Because of this redundancy, normal use can be triggered on a button press, and teleportation on a held button. This allows for missed target spamming if the desire is for the normal version, or guaranteed movement through a held button if the player's primary intent is movement. It allows the free-form utility without interfering with the original use-case of the ability.

     Covert Lethality: Changing the ability to perform the finisher with the dual blades may prevent Covert Lethality from working due to interactions. An ability should not have a mandatory mod to be use-able and Covert Lethality would still be use-able with the modification to Smoke Screen, in an arguably more fitting manner.

      

4. Blade Storm
   • Normal(Press + Release, Press, Press): Target, Assassinate, Cancel
     • Stage 1. Target : See current version, but only costs 7.5 energy per mark.

     • Stage 2: Trigger : Ash spawns 2 clones and attacks marked targets (including those marked by other abilities). Picks the 3 closest marked targets within range, Ash attacks the closest target, the clones attack the other 2. Each enemy has one mark remove when attacked. Then the process repeats. Clones can attack enemies that Ash has not yet attacked

     • Stage 3 (Optional). Cancel : Pressing 4 again will end stage 2 after the current set of attacks.

     • Stage 4. Recovery : 1s invulnerability after end of final animation

   • Charged(Press+Hold, Press): Shadow Form, Cancel
     • Shadow Form (2.5 Energy/s Cost) : Ash unsheathes his Twin Blades as he goes on a rampage.
       • Ash spawns 2 clones, which attack any marked targets in range like the normal version of the ability, though only 2 at a time.
       • Monochrome vision, but all enemies are highlighted in red.
       • Roll is replaced with a shadowy dash
       • Has a unique stance for his twin blades.
       • Charged attacks will cause Ash to teleport to a target and perform a finisher (like Rift Strike). Note: A player should be able to charge up another attack during this finisher, in order to allow manually chaining of teleporting finishers.
     • Cancel : If 4 is pressed again, or if Ash runs out of energy, Ash reverts to normal form and the clones stop attacking.
        

Spoiler

Normal Use: Attack marked targets while in an invulnerable state, showing the finisher animations that look cool. The ability to cancel the ability prevents unintended animation lock of both players and enemies. Invulnerability is added during the recovery stage, to prevent players from being one-shot or stun locked after coming out.

Charged Use: Go on a rampage, assassinating targets along with clones. In many missions where the objective is to kill targets quickly and move on, the player animation lock is a huge hindrance. The animation lock also prevents player interaction, and is akin to watching a cut-scene. Some cut-scenes are really cool, but you can only watch them so often until they get old/boring. The charged ability allows players to have more interactive game-play during this ultimate. The channeling cost of the charged ability and the 2 bodies attacking marked targets (instead of 3), make the ability take more time to kill enemies and cost more energy. It in turn gives players an interesting method to do it themselves through manual chaining of charged finishers. It also lets players continue to mark additional targets using abilities, though the extra energy use will reduce the amount of time Ash can stay in this state, and thus the clones may stop before finishing all targets.
The charge-attack teleportation finisher should still allow players to continue moving the camera, and have a long enough animation that players can target another enemy and charge up the next attack. This would require enabling players to charge up the next attack while in the finisher animation in order to smoothly transition between enemies.

Augment: I still think rising storm is meh, but it works even with the changes.

Normal vs. Charged Triggers: The normal form keeps similar mechanics as the current, but does allow for interesting interactions (quickly cancel the Assassination mode to only mark targets, can skip the extra targeting mode with a double press). The targeting phase is slow enough that requiring the button release shouldn't change much, nor the use case where people run around with targeting turned on. The hold required for the charged mode is distinct enough from the normal use rhythm to prevent confusion. Also somewhat intuitive, press buttons to change modes, or hold the button to go into a rampage mode.

Theatrics: The vision when using the charged ability should be similar to infrared vision such as used by firefighters to see through smoke. Turning rolls into shadowy dashes is fitting for a smoke-ninja, and the additional smoke around Ash is already in the normal version. Pulling out the twin-blades for attacks fits a manual mode, as do the teleporting charged finishers.

Programming wise: One key change that speeds up this ability is the ability for clones to attack separate targets. Ideally, each ash in a group should have a list of targets that they have marked, and thus nearest enemy could be done by sorting only on that list. This prevents the need for a range-based lookup and distance check, and only would need to be recalculated for each iteration of attacks. Enemies dying remove them from the list, which allows for enemies to be killed by team-mates with minimal issues.

 

 

I put the reasoning behind the theory inside the spoilers, to make things more readable.

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Aldarin_Blackwing
Formatting and Readability

[SanderRandorm123]

Hello everyone

Im here to talk about our old friend that was nothing but one buttom warrior and even after rework or how "cool kids call that a nerf" he still unfun to play, nothing satisfying to kill with his abilities.

His ult mechanic is slow and retarted, you have to shake your view everywhere to get mark on, i mean, dont gimme wrong im not fan of easy kills, i like aoe abilities too not gonna lie but only if it requies a lot of things to do, Ash's ult its not about that, the work you do, doesnt reward you, its just poof, like you trying to get many marks and u started to kill but some one will just shoot enemies quicker than you, theres the biggest problem, not in the speed of his clones, marks or even damage, no, but in whole mechanic.

My opinion is:

Ash need to be rid of ult, or should i say, be able to use other abilities in ult, without being locked in.

Theres a thing: 

Why not make his clones attack instantly to enemies he see, thats right, only in his line of sight, like Mesa but he able to run and use first 3 abilities.

I think making his ult like that will also make his abilities in need like imagne u used teleport to get close to enemy cuz your ult has 30-35m area in 45°-60° of sight for trigger clones to attack enemies, and if you have tuff ones like bombers you can use shuriken with augment and reduce armor and it will be easier to kill cuz u have to look dirrectly at enemy, all 3 powers will work fully in their potential.

Hope some of developers will hear me, its really sad when such an old friend represent a frame for XP or for kids that doesnt know how to play him and leave him after a few games when he ranks up.

Thank you if you read all of my thoughts 

Wish you good time farming Tennos.

(Also sorry for grammar.. English is not my first language hehe)

Edited January 26, 2018 by SanderRandorm123

[RayxAyanami]

Lets get something straight first, Warframes do not have an "ult". It's a 4th ability. Nothing dictates that the 4th ability has to be the strongest. 

I do agree with Ash needing a rework, but he works fine as is. It would be better if Blade Storm allowed you to be free and cast other abilities, while retaining the targeting mechanics it has now.  All he needs is synergy between his abilities.

[venon23]

ash is op nobody gone toutch him again  ever again 

[Babellon]

Ash is absolutely fun to play. You mark your enemies, can move to another location, kill those enemies you marked while remaining undetected by other enemies. 

Every frame offers a playstyle appealing to a number of players, no one frame is perfect for every task and every one loves different frames for different reasons. 

There are plenty of people who think ash is broken. There are also plenty of people who find ash quite fun to play. 

[artemisfortune]

8 minutes ago, RayxAyanami said:

Lets get something straight first, Warframes do not have an "ult". It's a 4th ability. Nothing dictates that the 4th ability has to be the strongest. 

I do agree with Ash needing a rework, but he works fine as is. It would be better if Blade Storm allowed you to be free and cast other abilities, while retaining the targeting mechanics it has now.  All he needs is synergy between his abilities.

Huh, so warframes don't have a high cost high reward 4th ability that brings out their ultimate ability?

GO FIGURE

[Kyryo]

The thing we have now is no longer my Ash. he's dead. this one is... his crippled son trying to fill his father role.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Weeeee another one of these. This is fun aye  @Nazrethim

[Shad0wWatcher]

Holy crap there are still new threads about this? I actually get to use this GIF sooner than i thought.

Keep at it guys...keep it up.

[Hypernaut1]

Ash is fine for the most part. If you can't get with the playstyle, than you just need to choose another frame.

He can cruise though high level content with ease. I don't know what Ash gripers are doing. It's not even like he's weak, and you need a lot of skill (like say using Ember or even Mag) He's pretty powerful and marking is very easy. 

Having clones attack while he can still fight would be op and they would have to weaken it. Just learn to play the frame.

[SanderRandorm123]

1 час назад, Hypernaut1 сказал:

Ash is fine for the most part. If you can't get with the playstyle, than you just need to choose another frame.

He can cruise though high level content with ease. I don't know what Ash gripers are doing. It's not even like he's weak, and you need a lot of skill (like say using Ember or even Mag) He's pretty powerful and marking is very easy. 

Having clones attack while he can still fight would be op and they would have to weaken it. Just learn to play the frame.

oh so i have to dump a few ones even i want to like them? everyone loves ember, well im not, no one likes Equinox, i do, no one likes loki rather just invisibility, but i do use most of his abilities.
I want use them all but what i can do if some of them just cant do much.

Edited January 27, 2018 by SanderRandorm123

[Hypernaut1]

52 minutes ago, SanderRandorm123 said:

oh so i have to dump a few ones even i want to like them? everyone loves ember, well im not, no one likes Equinox, i do, no one likes loki rather just invisibility, but i do use most of his abilities.
I want use them all but what i can do if some of them just cant do much.

No, you can learn to play them. The flaw is not with the frame. 

[Nazrethim]

hace 16 horas, Babellon dijo:

Ash is absolutely fun to play. You mark your enemies, can move to another location, kill those enemies you marked while remaining undetected by other enemies. 

How do you exactly remain undetected? BS doesn't make you invisible. And it doesn't award stealth kills for oneshots so it's pointless the corpse destruction anyway.

hace 16 horas, Babellon dijo:

There are plenty of people who think ash is broken. There are also plenty of people who find ash quite fun to play. 

The first ones are the ones who never played the frame but hate it and want it further nerfed into the ground, or remain as it is now. The second are the ones with Arcane energize/strike, Primed Fury, Attack Speed Riven mod and Max Efficiency on every build.

 

hace 14 horas, Shad0wWatcher dijo:

Holy crap there are still new threads about this? I actually get to use this GIF sooner than i thought.

Keep at it guys...keep it up.

Well, that sends a clear message.

hace 3 horas, Hypernaut1 dijo:

Ash is fine for the most part. If you can't get with the playstyle, than you just need to choose another frame.

I agree for the most part. Ash is good as he is with regards to his passive and first 3 abilities. Blade Storm is the terrible badly designed ability.

hace 3 horas, Hypernaut1 dijo:

He can cruise though high level content with ease. I don't know what Ash gripers are doing. It's not even like he's weak, and you need a lot of skill (like say using Ember or even Mag) He's pretty powerful and marking is very easy. 

He needs skill if you use 1 to 3. 4th doesn't require any skill whatsoever. Only specific modding to be almost as good as it was pre-nerf by default.

hace 3 horas, Hypernaut1 dijo:

Having clones attack while he can still fight would be op and they would have to weaken it. Just learn to play the frame.

Yes. World on Bladestorm is a dumb idea. Even dumber than a sh*tty marking mode with individual executions... oh wait.

[Hypernaut1]

12 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

 

Yes. World on Bladestorm is a dumb idea. Even dumber than a sh*tty marking mode with individual executions... oh wait.

No, another stance is a horrible idea. Take that somewhere. 

[Babellon]

2 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

How do you exactly remain undetected? BS doesn't make you invisible. And it doesn't award stealth kills for oneshots so it's pointless the corpse destruction anyway.

 

do you play ash? You are correct blade storm does not make you invisible. smoke screen however drops aggro and allows you to evade enemies. You can mark your enemies while in smoke screen, walk away, trigger smoke screen again and cast your second press for bladestorm. No, bladestorm doesn't award you stealth kills. Teleport is a wonderful skill which moves you to targets, across rooms, and when used either with a properly timed quick melee attack or a mod to do the function for you, it does stealth kills. Every time. 

With the new tweaks they've done recently the game has improved and now one can actually control melee attacks and directional combos more effectively. There is more to ash than blade storm. there is more to warframe than ash. Creative gameplay isn't something that Digital Extremes can force its playerbase to use. all they can do is provide us the tools, what we choose to do with those tools is up to the tenno. 40+ frames, 400+ weapons. there is a tool for every job. You don't like that screwdriver? get a different one.

[Nazrethim]

hace 1 hora, Babellon dijo:

do you play ash? You are correct blade storm does not make you invisible. smoke screen however drops aggro and allows you to evade enemies.

I don't play any other frame on almost all content, except Eidolon Teralyst that enforces Chroma for solo. Smoke Screen isn't paused during Blade Storm, and it's way faster and cheaper to just melee enemies rather than using failstorm thanks to the invisibility damage multiplier.

hace 1 hora, Babellon dijo:

You can mark your enemies while in smoke screen, walk away, trigger smoke screen again and cast your second press for bladestorm.

Why not just melee them? or shoot them? BS is so slow it makes no sense to do that.

hace 1 hora, Babellon dijo:

No, bladestorm doesn't award you stealth kills. Teleport is a wonderful skill which moves you to targets, across rooms, and when used either with a properly timed quick melee attack or a mod to do the function for you, it does stealth kills. Every time. 

Teleport will only award stealth kills if you don't have the augment equiped, and that's not a guaranteed thing unless you are invisible while doing it.

hace 1 hora, Babellon dijo:

With the new tweaks they've done recently the game has improved and now one can actually control melee attacks and directional combos more effectively.

What tweaks? Recently? Now you are making bs up. And even then melee is better than failstorm.

hace 1 hora, Babellon dijo:

There is more to ash than blade storm.

That is true. But that's not excuse to have a redundant badly designed ability that it's easily overshadowed by pretty much any other tool Ash has at his disposal at every point in the progression.

hace 1 hora, Babellon dijo:

there is more to warframe than ash. Creative gameplay isn't something that Digital Extremes can force its playerbase to use. all they can do is provide us the tools, what we choose to do with those tools is up to the tenno. 40+ frames, 400+ weapons. there is a tool for every job. You don't like that screwdriver? get a different one.

Translation: I ran out of arguments so I say to play another frame, or quit the game.

 

hace 4 horas, Hypernaut1 dijo:

No, another stance is a horrible idea. Take that somewhere. 

Depending on design. Marking Mode could be good but the way it is now it's horrible, redundant and pointless in general, with some very niche uses that require massive modding just to be remotely useful.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb SanderRandorm123:

oh so i have to dump a few ones even i want to like them? 

So your definition of liking something is changing it untill it's something completely different?... 

[(PSN)TertulSee]

Well, people don’t really know me for my opinion on Ash. He’s good right now because he literally has everything that you could possibly ever need beside a heal. His kit is pretty bloated already. Does he really need a 4th ability?

Edited January 27, 2018 by (PS4)godlysparta

[Nazrethim]

hace 29 minutos, (PS4)godlysparta dijo:

Well, people don’t really know me for my opinion on Ash. He’s good right now because he literally has everything that you could possibly ever need beside a heal. His kit is pretty bloated already. Does he really need a 4th ability?

As a damage dealer in a horde game, he needs an effective power that deals with crowds. BS should be just that. Maybe make it weaker vs elites but able to wipe grunts easily.

 

hace 1 hora, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

So your definition of liking something is changing it untill it's something completely different?... 

Limbo got wildly different from what he used to be, and he's better for it. Making changes, you know, what a rework is meant to be, to adress the issues and improve the frame is a good thing. As long as the central themes of the frame remain anything can be done.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Nazrethim:

 

 

Limbo got wildly different from what he used to be, and he's better for it. .

Thus all the hate threads.

I mean don't get me wrong.

His survivability is unrivaled due to invisibility the void and his damage Cc is easily among the strongest in the game but it favors melee, what obviously isn't for everyone. The armor dbuff damage buff trough his augument is really good too... some of his abilitys overlap a bit, sure..even tho they serve different purposes and he can't facetank but it's enough for him to survive and energy isn't an issue on that base eather, given that you use a correct setup.

He's awesome in the correct hands now, tho some may argue that he was better before since his current state is punishing to meta abuse.... he's similar to another frame in that regard.... i just can't pin it down. But that's no reason to replace his current self with something like, idk, a Bladestorm void themed stance ability, is it?

Liking a frame because of a theme doesn't essencially mean that you have to like how a frame plays. If you find yourself not enjoying a frame and wanting to rework it completely then you probably don't like it after all and might indeed be better off just moving on.

Edited January 28, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Somi_xD]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (PS4)CoolD2108:

Thus all the hate threads.

I mean don't get me wrong.

His survivability is unrivaled due to invisibility the void and his damage Cc is easily among the strongest in the game but it favors melee, what obviously isn't for everyone. The armor dbuff damage buff trough his augument is really good too... some of his abilitys overlap a bit, sure..even tho they serve different purposes and he can't facetank but it's enough for him to survive and energy isn't an issue on that base eather, given that you use a correct setup.

He's awesome in the correct hands now, tho some may argue that he was better before since his current state is punishing to meta abuse.... he's similar to another frame in that regard.... i just can't pin it down. But that's no reason to replace his current self with something like, idk, a Bladestorm void themed stance ability, is it?

Liking a frame because of a theme doesn't essencially mean that you have to like how a frame plays. If you find yourself not enjoying a frame and wanting to rework it completely then you probably don't like it after all and might indeed be better off just moving on.

... Then why we need any changes at all - just keep all frames like they are there are some people out there who solo sorties with all frames. ...

DE just release the kraken - no more need to support warframe - all people are happy because some people say that the game is fine.

Why you guys need to be so toxic about feedback - get a hobby, instead of sitting here and bashing every Ash thread just because YOU think he doesn't need any attention.

I wouldn't care at all if you just say Ash doesn't need anything - thats your opinion it is fine.

But mocking other player just because they bring up their opinion and forcing your point of view on them?

Am 26.1.2018 um 22:28 schrieb (Xbox One)RDeschain82:

Weeeee another one of these. This is fun aye  @Nazrethim

 

Am 26.1.2018 um 23:36 schrieb Shad0wWatcher:

Holy crap there are still new threads about this? I actually get to use this GIF sooner than i thought.

Keep at it guys...keep it up.

 

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Hypernaut1:

No, you can learn to play them. The flaw is not with the frame. 

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Somi_xD