Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Miser_able]

Cool.

Still better then before though.

[-BigB0ss-]

Is boring just press 4 and clean rooms. 2+4  do the work now. 

[RawGritz]

Ash changes!

Love all but the Bladestorm. While I like being able to mark targets, I would much prefer if he sent out shadows to do the work while we still retained control over "true" Ash. Make it so he can only use his melee or some for the time its active, if needed...though I dont feel it is.

Then we could better cooperate with teammates and and our own Bladestorm shadows.

[TheSteelRat]

12 minutes ago, Siekier said:

So, after some testing my main thoughts are:

- Bladestorm costs more energy than before. Before the changes Ash could strike 18 times for a cost of 100 energy unmodded. Right now it's 15 (or 10 if invisible) per mark. So unmodded, we can mark 10 enemies at most for the cost of striking 18 times before the rework.

It is even worse then that.  10/15 Energy for a mark, and once your energy is depleated you need to do blade storm for a chance to recover some energy for enemies marked multiple times.  at most levels, 2000 base damage will kill most anything on the map and i dont need to MARK it more then once, and then over the process of marking you lose your smoke cloud, and cant even recast it since all your energy got wasted on BS

Edited November 25, 2016 by -CM-Kinnison

[aligatorno]

His 4 is nowhere near useless. It was nothing badass or interesting in watching an Ash movie for the 3000th time. I don't know about you, but I don't have  any problems marking enemies and executing Bladestorm, it doesn't take pin point precision, you just glide your reticule form left to right and they are selected. 

You can choose how many enemies you mark, in this sense it's actually a buff since now you can mark as many enemies as you have energy no longer being locked to 18. You don't NEED to get the most kills by yourself, especially when playing with a squad. All the complaints that I`ve seen about this is that now we can't nuke whole rooms before the others kill, which should not be the case in a team focused game. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by aligatorno

[Nazrethim]

I have tried the new and shiny Ash and I have to say I'm very satisfied with the result. However, there's some room for improvements regarding Teleport:

Make teleport work on a tap/hold mechanic. Tap to teleport to the entity (unit or object) and if it's an enemy open for a finisher, just like normal. The added feature should be 'Hold briefly' Teleport key to teleport to the aimed location, so we can use it to bypass crowds of enemies or difficult to maneuver terrain without requiring a "valid" entity to teleport to. The teleport to location wouldn't trigger any finisher or anything.

 

I also want to add a feature to the new Blade Storm: make instant kills vs unalerted enemies award the Stealth kill affinity bonus.

[Heckzu]

It's at times like these that I wish there was a downvote button.

The new Blade Storm marking mechanic requires you to sweep your mouse to mark the entire room. This only takes 0.2 seconds.

If you're going to say that the new Blade Storm is bad because it's too slow, here's all I can say: git gud.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Heckzu

[Yaerion]

13 minutes ago, lLegion said:

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8 minutes ago, shadowfire380 said:

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6 minutes ago, Rinzler-2.0 said:

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Just now, aligatorno said:

è

Vortexed within : 

 

[Yaerion]

2 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I have tried the new and shiny Ash and I have to say I'm very satisfied with the result. However, there's some room for improvements regarding Teleport:

Make teleport work on a tap/hold mechanic. Tap to teleport to the entity (unit or object) and if it's an enemy open for a finisher, just like normal. The added feature should be 'Hold briefly' Teleport key to teleport to the aimed location, so we can use it to bypass crowds of enemies or difficult to maneuver terrain without requiring a "valid" entity to teleport to. The teleport to location wouldn't trigger any finisher or anything.

 

I also want to add a feature to the new Blade Storm: make instant kills vs unalerted enemies award the Stealth kill affinity bonus.

Pulled within:  

 

[Malice]

Tested the rework over the course of an hour or two against level 135 enemies, mainly Heavy Gunners, since it's what I'm capped at.

Here's some of the feedback I strongly believe needs to be implemented or changed:

1) Issue: Smoke Screen is almost 99.98% mandatory whilst you mark targets since you die VERY easily against higher level enemies, and even then, there's a bug where enemies were still able to see me and shoot even though I was invisible.
1) Solution: Increase Smoke Screen's duration and allow it to be recasted at any point of time. Whilst remaining invisible with Smoke Screen, Blade Storm's damage should be significantly amplified.

2) Issue: Blade Storm consumes ALOT of energy, like seriously, ALOT, not even kidding. Sure, having Fleeting Expertise + Streamline for 175% efficiency reduces the energy cost, but sacrifices our survivablity since Smoke Screen's duration now only lasts for 1 second.
2) Solution: Increasing the duration stat should decrease Blade Storm's energy cost per mark significantly, especially since now we have to rely on the duration stat for Smoke Screen.

3) Issue: Blade Storm's marked visibility isn't clear and in the midst of the chaos, it's hard to see the amount of times you've marked a particular enemy.
3) Solution: Color code the highlight on the enemies to indicate the amount of times they have been marked? Or add more visible icons like skulls?

4) Issue: As other players have mentioned, Shuriken sees no usage at all and feels out of place in Ash's kit right now. There was no rework or change made at all for the Shuriken which seems odd as it was useless prior to the rework and still remains so.
4) Solution: Implent a way to utilize Shuriken in conjuction with Ash's Blade Storm? Rework the entire Shuriken ability?

5) Issue: Blade Storm still feels un-interactive, it's more of a chore now compared to before. Not saying that press 4 to trigger is how it should be, but using the time to mark and scout for enemies and then waiting for the Blade Storm animations to finish consumes alot of wasted time and energy (literally). Like what others have mentioned, you could've just used your arsenal of weapons and wipe the enemies quicker than if you were to use Blade Storm. 
5) Solution: To be honest, I feel another look and thorough rework for Blade Storm is required. In fact, his entire kit should be reworked with better syncronization with each of his abilities.

[Yaerion]

29 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

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Siphoned within: 

 

[Yaerion]

38 minutes ago, Draknus2009 said:

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Siphoned within: 

 

[Yaerion]

13 hours ago, MisticHD said:

Just a quick post here. Ash's marking system is good but a little bit slow, can you add to the the smoke screen ability to mark enemies ? You know if enemy is in range of smoke screen and the marking is active every enemy afected by smoke will be marked with one death mark. That will give more synegy and alow players to mark groups of enemies faster.

 

12 hours ago, Seulin said:

It would be nice, especially if that effect was added by syndicate mod. Good thinking mate.

 

12 hours ago, KittyDarkling said:

Was the rework featured in a recent stream or something? I'm pretty sure it hasn't been released yet... has it? It's late and I'm tired so maybe I'm forgetting something.

 

12 hours ago, Arandabido said:

yes, it was featured in the last prime time. go check it out if you can =)

Gotta agree about the smoke screen marking enemies, that would help a lot getting the ult moving faster. Great thinking!

 

10 hours ago, Drufo said:

I like your suggestion

 

10 hours ago, Hoverb said:

Great idea. Gopnik Award for u, and stay cheeki breeki!

 

6 hours ago, Aekhon said:

Oh this is an excellent idea!  This would bring back Bladestorm as Ash's panic button, which is the only way I use the ability.  The current rework shown last night completely destroys Bladestorm in that regard.

 

1 hour ago, DEATHLOK said:

Ash is dead.

Press 4. You can target 3 enemies. Press 4 to attack. Each kill costs 15 energy.

 

1 hour ago, Restartmind111 said:

Ashes to ashes, Ash to dust.

 

1 hour ago, MyDoomWin32 said:

Just brilliant.

Siphoned within: 

 

[TrinityPrime]

Ash Blade Storm:

Why not remove Ash from performing the blade storm and instead just send in clones? 

Then you can remove the enemy invulnerability (that annoys most teammates) during bladestorm that you added solely to counter the bug which causes Ash players to get glitched when a teammate kills the target they're blade storming. Plus Ash will then be able play the game instead of the same old problem of watching an action clip.

[Yoridokoro]

So I have been an ash main for 3 years and this is my feedback, to stay efficient I will keep this clean:

What i like about this rework.

- Smoke screen is now reliable! It is possible to cast on the run and while jumping, it was the first thing that I noticed and saved me many times from being shot to the death while casting it as the standart situation would have been prior to this rework, aditionally boosting Blade storm by making the energy cost cheaper increases the usefullness of Smoke Screen! 

- Ash is no longer a 'press 4 to win' warframe, now actuall skill and brain is required to use him. Warframe was not supposed to be a farming simulator or cookie-clicker type of game as far as I know. And this new mark mode removed the 'Press 4 to get more cookies so you can press 4 more!' syndrom.

- Mark mode looks great, effects are great, it overall feels bad-&#!.

The next point many may disagree with but it is a personal opinion of mine.

- Due to the new mechanic or markins enemies and bodies dissolving, bladestorm is now stealth viable and feels like an ability to compliment and encourage stealth gameplay. Stealth is a playatyle I personally enjoy and wish to see becomming more common and polished in warframe.

 

What I dislike:

- Teleport is sometimes messy, often missing enemies and teleporting to a camera or exploding barrel instead, and by doing so wasting energy with which I intended to take down a high value target that poses a risk to my entire team. This can be my fault of not having gotten used to- and aimed properly! Still it made me frown a little in such moments. 

- Bladestorm is not in it's current state an ability deserving the spot for the unltimate ability. It lacks utility! Bladestorm has not become overall more effective, and in MOST cases this change can be seen as a nerf! When playing online at enemy level 0-40 I was not able to get a proper feel for Bladestorm because enemies were killed quicker by my teamates than I could mark them. And when the kills were inniciated it feels weak. Teleport with it's augment fulfills the purpose of Blade storm better in most scenarios!

 

What can be changed and/or added to balance Ash's abilities;

Overall, ash lacks utility, all abilities can be improved by adding some form of utility, He is a true ninja after all, they were not all about killing, rather setting up the kill and disorting enemie lines with their gear and skill.

- 1st ability. This has been suggested alot, alot of times, the first ability should be similar to vaubans tesla, to be able to togle between Shuriken and a trap-like item like a Caltrop, by doing so adding utility to ashes arsenal.

- 2nd Ability. Smokescreen is still lackluster, even though the recent rework added very welcome buffs. (It is better! But Still lacks that one thing to make it a finished ability) What is missing? Utility! Make the stagger on enemies last longer, similar to but not necessary as long as Excaliburs Blind. This would make Smoke Screen perfect as a compromise for the lack of duration and the energy cost to cast it.

- Bladestorm! As it is now, I am liking the over-all concept of entering mark mode- selecting targets and execuring precisely desired kills, however as mentioned before it is easily outmatched by Teleport with the augment mod. There are many ideas our there in the forums and many suggestions on how to improve it. Many of them are amazing concepts. Please DE - read through them.

My personal ideas are;

-The marked targets should not be attacked the Ash himself, but rather by his clones/specters/students/minions. In such way leaving the player to move freely (yes this would remove the cinematic mode). 

-Make the marked enemies suffer additional penalries while ask is executing the kills.

-Surrounding enemies who are wittnessing Blade Storm in action panic and run, OR get scared and halter for a second, stepping back or falling down on their bottoms, in any case they react and stop their action for a short duration.

 

Otherwise, The reworks was very welcome, refreshing and can and should be improved. Koga and Ryu skins are awesome! 

Keep up the good work DE!

[Drufo]

I noticed something: when using Fatal Teleport, now before the finisher there's a slight delay, and during that time you stand behind the enemy unable to move and are vulnerable 

[Zemuron]

thats also my only issue with ashs bladestorm

the target system feels active and and smooth but the killspeed feels unnecessary slow because there are no more clones to support him. if bladestorm should be an active ult it should be executed very fast rather than attack every single enemy one by one

[Valthryn]

16 hours ago, MisticHD said:

Just a quick post here. Ash's marking system is good but a little bit slow, can you add to the the smoke screen ability to mark enemies ? You know if enemy is in range of smoke screen and the marking is active every enemy afected by smoke will be marked with one death mark. That will give more synegy and alow players to mark groups of enemies faster.

 

PS: If you see some errors here, my apogize Im writing this on my phone+ english is not my native language.

 

Chaos Lord out.....

Ash is fun now. Before the rework, I played him for about a month, then when the "BLADESTORM IS OP LOL" effect wore off, then I never touched him. Now, he's fun and I like the way bladestorm makes you ninja around before murdering everything.

[Yoridokoro]

1 minute ago, Daggerpaw1 said:

Ash is fun now. Before the rework, I played him for about a month, then when the "BLADESTORM IS OP LOL" effect wore off, then I never touched him. Now, he's fun and I like the way bladestorm makes you ninja around before murdering everything.

Agreed. Ninja-ing around is the best way to describe it.

[DEATHLOK]

Ash just became the first Mastery Rank fodder Warframe. DE did not rework Blade Storm. They just nerf-hammered it into oblivion.

You press 4 to enter into "Targeting Mode." Sounds intense, right? It's not—it's just one third of the nerf hammer. You get to glow, and enemies you look at gain up to three giant diamonds floating over their body. This displays how many times you can attack that particular target. Because, naturally, in Warframe, you have all the time in the world to count how many giant targets you place on each individual enemy.

When you want to attack, you have to press 4 again. Compared to the previous Bladestorm, you now attack but a small handful of nearby enemies and do very little damage. The second third of the nerf hammer is Bladestorm's new 3600 points of damage cap. Bladestorm has to be used numerous times on more powerful enemies before they fall, which will be impossible given how slow the mechanic has become.

Blade Storm is no longer time-based—the final third of the nerf hammer. To see how worthless the ability is, put three targets on the Juggernaut: You will hit him once, and then Bladestorm ends. Press 4 to re-enter "Targeting Mode," and the fun starts all over again.

Bladestorm is largely worthless in group play. Enemies you waste time targeting can and should be killed by other players actually playing the game. While you are running around, avoiding enemies and trying to collect targets for your mighty "reworked" Bladestorm, your team mates are actively engaged and shooting your targets dead for you. Congratulations, you just became worthless to your team and the worst-performing player of the match.

DE did not rework or redesign Bladestorm. They just broke the existing design. Unless you can carry your weight with Shuriken, Smoke Screen and Teleport, Ash is worthless to any team.

 

[Shuuro]

Okay, so I've ran in game and I've tested out the changes first hand. I like it a lot, but I also have some changes that I think could improve the system. Here are my thoughts.

 

Blade Storm does not use Energy to toggle on. Keep it like this.

If we get out of range of Blade Storm, the marks are taken off and we get our energy back. This makes sense so we can't have people abusing infinite range assassinations.

Marking enemies feels seemless. It's not the tiny dot of the reticle that marks them, but the entire.. circle. It's a pretty generous range of targeting, even from far away. Marking targets actually feels fast and fluid.

I have to say I completely disagree with the removal of clones. My suggestion on this, when we activate blade storm, we also summon our shadow clones to attack separate marked targets. This would speed things up along quite well.

As it is now, we attack an enemy on the 1st mark, and the 2nd and 3rd mark on the same enemy is an attack from our shadow clone. Instead of attacking marked enemies per mark, I suggest attacking enemies only once, but intensify the damage depending on the number of marks. 1 mark for 2000 damage, 2 marks for 4000, 3 for 6000. This will solve the issue of enemies being locked in Blade Storm for too long and the others in your team can attack targets as soon as you are done with them. This speeds up blade storm significantly and should reduce stress from fellow members in your team being unable to do anything but watch.

As I suggested before. Again, to add on top of the Marked for death system, allow each mark for death to apply a sort of "debuff" to enemies. While enemies are marked for death, they would take 10% more projectile/gun damage per mark, and 15% more melee damage per mark. To compensate for the damage boost, enemies killed without blade storm but by other members, or yourself using other weapons, only half the energy would be returned per kill. If you used 10 Energy to place that mark, then you should only receive 5 energy back when they die.

To add even further synergy with the marked for death system, enemies that are hit by Shuriken should consume those marks, and summon a Shadow Clone in place to attack the targets that were hit by Shuriken. Only Enemies that have already been marked AND hit by Shuriken will be attacked by the shadow Clone, so even if you mark an entire room, the only enemy being hit by the shadow clone would be the enemies that were hit by Shuriken. This would allow specific targeting of Blade Storm on certain enemies while also having other enemies debuffed for extra damage.

The smoke screen change is amazing. I love it. Bless you DE. Not only do we have complete unrestricted movement while casting smoke screen, but it is ALSO a ONE HANDED ACTION. This means you can cast it while shooting! While Reloading! and nothing will be interupted! This is beautiful! I love it, astounding change.

Shuriken now throws straight ahead and does not hard curve to the side making it miss 60% of the time. This, coupled with the ninja buff to Shuriken a few patches ago to make it punch through enemies makes it feel much better to use.

I feel that I still have to stick by my previous mention of Shuriken buff though. It feels like it needs to be changed into throwing 4 Shuriken for 250 damage each, instead of 2 Shuriken of 500 damage each. This would help the augment strip off armor, as well as help with the suggestion of having Shuriken activate Death Marks and summon Shadow Clones to blade storm targeted enemies.

Other 1 abilities offer a lot more utility and I feel that Shuriken deserves some love. Slash Dash and Rhino charge knocks down, Freeze... freezes and slows a patched area if you hit a surface. Limbo completely removes an enemy from a fight. Oberon radiates enemies and makes them fight each other.

Show Shuriken some love. Give it a wee bit of utility instead of throwing it forward for 200 or less damage, because guess what? Grineer armor laughs at it, and quite frankly, DE you have made Shuriken INFINTELY pointless to use now. Why use energy on Shuriken when blade storm costs FIVE energy for Two marks? Do you see the problem now?

 

Please. Pretty please. This entire change is wonderful, but you guys made Shuriken cry. Shuriken needs a hug.

 

Edit: Copy pasting feedback from a note pad makes posts ugly. You would think I would learn by now, but I don't.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Shuuro

[Valthryn]

3 hours ago, DEATHLOK said:

Ash just became the first Mastery Rank fodder Warframe. DE did not rework Blade Storm. They just nerf-hammered it into oblivion.

You press 4 to enter into "Targeting Mode." Sounds intense, right? It's not—it's just one third of the nerf hammer. You get to glow, and enemies you look at gain up to three giant diamonds floating over their body. This displays how many times you can attack that particular target. Because, naturally, in Warframe, you have all the time in the world to count how many giant targets you place on each individual enemy.

When you want to attack, you have to press 4 again. Compared to the previous Bladestorm, you now attack but a small handful of nearby enemies and do very little damage. The second third of the nerf hammer is Bladestorm's new 3600 points of damage cap. Bladestorm has to be used numerous times on more powerful enemies before they fall, which will be impossible given how slow the mechanic has become.

Blade Storm is no longer time-based—the final third of the nerf hammer. To see how worthless the ability is, put three targets on the Juggernaut: You will hit him once, and then Bladestorm ends. Press 4 to re-enter "Targeting Mode," and the fun starts all over again.

Bladestorm is largely worthless in group play. Enemies you waste time targeting can and should be killed by other players actually playing the game. While you are running around, avoiding enemies and trying to collect targets for your mighty "reworked" Bladestorm, your team mates are actively engaged and shooting your targets dead for you. Congratulations, you just became worthless to your team and the worst-performing player of the match.

DE did not rework or redesign Bladestorm. They just broke the existing design. Unless you can carry your weight with Shuriken, Smoke Screen and Teleport, Ash is worthless to any team.

 

I still top damage in Mot survival. You just have to move around more so you can target enemies and then you press 4 to murder everything. Camera sweeping is the new pro Ash skill.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

31 minutes ago, Yaerion said:

Pulled within:  

 

 

[DEATHLOK]

2 minutes ago, Daggerpaw1 said:

I still top damage in Mot survival. You just have to move around more so you can target enemies and then you press 4 to murder everything. Camera sweeping is the new pro Ash skill.

Sure. Camera sweeping sounds like a party.

Meanwhile, Mirage and Equinox have wiped out the entire map several times over.

Bladestorm should have been reworked as a new AoE power. This is just a clumsy, heavy-handed Nerf Band-Aid.

[Askell91]

Well i did not use it much but this "rework" gets on my nerves. Every time i use 4 i have to shake the chamera left and right like i have some problem with my head xd. So no its a - for me. Nice idea but did not get the job done for me sorry.