We need an actual endgame again, and soon.

[Jackviator]

Riven mods were supposedly targeted at veterans who have nothing better to do. From the developer workshop post itself:

"Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style."

Ok, I can accept that. Veterans mostly use meta weapons and such, and you guys want to shake things up a bit. Here's the thing though: even if we are able to bring non-meta weapons up to the power levels of the actually-meta ones, what are we going to use them on? All of those non-meta underused weapons can one-shot most enemies in the star chart anyway if modded properly, and since the advent of Void 2.0, the star chart's base challenge level (read: almost never going down and one-shotting almost everything in the game) has been what we have been dealing with on a daily basis outside of Sorties and Raids, which you can only do once a day anyway.

Right now, there doesn't seem to be a reason to go beyond 20 minutes in any given survival, 4 waves in interception, 20 in defense. It's just easier to extract, rinse and repeat. There's just not an incentive to get us to keep going in endless missions other than just for the Hek of it. Basically, there simply aren't enemies that can withstand our powers and weapons in normal, everyday play, and while they do exist in longer survivals and such, there's no reason for us to want to go that far anyway other than for the challenge itself, and that doesn't motivate most people enough.

Endless relic missions, which seemed to be created specifically to address this issue, are too sporadic and randomly pop up against random factions for random limited periods of time, and even then the small boosts we get from those missions often just don't matter to endgame players. For a lot of us, we have all the credits we need, all the affinity we could want, enough raw crafting materials to destroy the Earth and rebuild it, twice, purely for the lulz.

Endless fissures also lack one of the only reasons these types of missions were popular in Void 1.0 in the first place, that is to say, being able to save your Void Keys if you stayed longer. They rewarded player skills with more loot and less wasted Keys.

We need some reason to stick around in endless missions again, an effort=reward system, that rewards things that are actually valuable to endgame players. For example, let's say the longer you stick around in a survival/defense/interception/excavation mission, you would get more and more relics and other rarities as a reward. (ex: on wave 10 and 20 of a defense you get one, on wave 30 and 40 you get 3, on wave 50 and 60 you get 4 or more. Note: these numbers are just placeholders. Additionally, the type of relics rewarded would depend on the starting enemy level of the mission in question) And that's just one idea. I'm sure we can think of more (and if you do, feel free to leave a comment).

Most importantly: this system, whatever form it takes, would have to consistently and reliably exist within the game. They should always be available and standardized. No more waiting around to see if a new endless fissure mission pops up that actually interests me.

I don't want to keep logging into the game, then minimizing it and check back every half-hour to see if a sufficiently challenging fissure mission against the faction I want to fight against is active for the time being, and hope that my friends are online at the same time as I am. It may sound ludicrous, but that's just where we're at right now, and it needs to change.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Jackviator

[taiiat]

wait, again?
when did we have an 'endgame'?

????

(psst, we've never had anything like that)

[xRufus7x]

Endless relic runs are more rewarding than void endless runs were, offering traces, multipliers to credits and resources and already refined relics at certain milestones that actually increase the longer you stay all while getting shots at additional relics through the standard rotation. This makes them far more rewarding than the traditional AABC that we had in the void.

 

So if your old "end game" was the void you should be far happier with the new "Endless Fissure" endgame which brings more variety, better rewards and actually scales rewards the longer you stay.

Edited November 29, 2016 by xRufus7x

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

[Jackviator]

7 hours ago, xRufus7x said:

Endless relic runs are more rewarding than void endless runs were, offering traces, multipliers to credits and resources and already refined relics at certain milestones that actually increase the longer you stay all while getting shots at additional relics through the standard rotation. This makes them far more rewarding than the traditional AABC that we had in the void.

That still doesn't address the random nature of the endless fissure missions. If they were at the very least consistent, I might not have such a problem with them. 

Plus, y'know, as I mentioned (though I can't speak for everyone), a lot of us endgame players don't need creds, affinity and resources.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Jackviator

[xRufus7x]

Just now, Jackviator said:

That still doesn't address the random nature of the endless fissure missions. If they were at least consistent, I might not have such a problem with them.

IDK that I have ever seen a time when there isn't at least one running or at least for a small amount of time and they cycle what, every hour. Play something else for a while or do a raid or sortie. I mean I wouldn't complain if there was always 2 missions per relic type, one endless and one not but it has never really been an issue for me.

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

The closest thing a player can experience Warframe's endgame is Alt+F4.

On a more constructive side:

My vision of endgame is to have an engaging mission or series of missions with meaningful, exclusive rewards. What constitute "worth it" rewards?

Examples:

1. Skins that can only be DROP from mentioned mission(s). They CANNOT be traded or bought from other sources.
2. Badges and Emblems. They CANNOT be traded or bought from other sources.
3. Accessories (Syandannas, Operator's stuffs, Pet's stuffs, etc). They CANNOT be traded or bought from other sources.
4. Emotes. They CANNOT be traded or bought from other sources.
5. Pretty much anything that is an exclusive VANITY item that do not affect gameplay.

No, I am not entitle for wanting exclusive items gained through efforts. I don't want endgame items that can be BOUGHT! May RNGesus or Lootcifer be with you. 

[Irorone]

20 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Endless relic runs are more rewarding than void endless runs were, offering traces, multipliers to credits and resources and already refined relics at certain milestones that actually increase the longer you stay all while getting shots at additional relics through the standard rotation. This makes them far more rewarding than the traditional AABC that we had in the void.

 

So if your old "end game" was the void you should be far happier with the new "Endless Fissure" endgame which brings more variety, better rewards and actually scales rewards the longer you stay.

HAHAHAHAHA, no.

One endless relic run consumes potentially endless relics which took an endless amount of time to farm by comparison to "keys".  On top of that you have to run around grabbing ten maguffins for EVERY SINGLE ONE of those relics regardless of mode.

One void key, nearly endless rewards depending on mode.

On top of that the longer stays bonuses like credit increases cap at the 2x booster mark and most don't even run to the 20 wave threshhold anymore in pubs meaning that said "longer stay" bonuses are only with relatively strictly setup groups which are effectively keysharing 2.0 but still WAY less "rewarding" than old void keys were.

"Variety" is the only thing that was an arguable plus with void 2.0 and you can still find posts here and there of the four forma roll.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Irorone

[FierceRadiance]

To me, running around in circles and shooting things forever and ever (i.e., DefenSurvival) never really satisfied as an 'endgame'.  It didn't satisfy when I first did it on my Atari 2600, and it doesn't satisfy now.

Edited November 29, 2016 by FierceRadiance

[Soketsu]

20 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Endless relic runs are more rewarding than void endless runs were, offering traces, multipliers to credits and resources and already refined relics at certain milestones that actually increase the longer you stay all while getting shots at additional relics through the standard rotation. This makes them far more rewarding than the traditional AABC that we had in the void.

 

So if your old "end game" was the void you should be far happier with the new "Endless Fissure" endgame which brings more variety, better rewards and actually scales rewards the longer you stay.

Consuming X relic for X void rewards on 1 mission instead of 1 key for X prime reward, you might say "yeah but it's give relic too", yes, but not sure to get the relic I want, so the gear I loocking for

Edited November 29, 2016 by Soketsu

[Irorone]

Just now, Soketsu said:

Consuming X relic for X void rewards on 1 mission instead of 1 key for X prime reward, you might say "yeah but it's give relic too", yes, but not sure to get the relic I want, so the gear I loocking for

Which also means that the "ideal" places to endless void only pop up RANDOMLY and I think most agree there's enough random in the game right now.

[Soketsu]

1 minute ago, Irorone said:

Which also means that the "ideal" places to endless void only pop up RANDOMLY and I think most agree there's enough random in the game right now.

*riven system* / *sortie rewards*

*getting the right relic*

*getting you prime reward*

x)

[xRufus7x]

7 minutes ago, Irorone said:

HAHAHAHAHA, no.

One endless relic run consumes potentially endless relics which took an endless amount of time to farm by comparison to "keys".  On top of that you have to run around grabbing ten maguffins for EVERY SINGLE ONE of those relics regardless of mode.

 

You are also gaining relics back through the standard reward rotations and the guaranteed ones giving you a way to farm relics while cracking relics. Also, really, is grabbing traces in a game that is largely focused on mobility too much for you to handle?

12 minutes ago, Irorone said:

One void key, nearly endless rewards depending on mode.

From a far more limited pool that was heavily weighted towards giving you crap. Everyone seems to have forgotten how often we stayed for 20 minutes to get fusion cores or Orokin cells. Now you are guaranteed a prime part or at worst a forma.

 

15 minutes ago, Irorone said:

On top of that the longer stays bonuses like credit increases cap at the 2x booster mark and most don't even run to the 20 wave threshhold anymore in pubs meaning that said "longer stay" bonuses are only with relatively strictly setup groups which are effectively keysharing 2.0 but still WAY less "rewarding" than old void keys were.

 

Pugs rarely went past 20 in the void either. Occasionally 40 and very rarely 60. At least now you get tangible rewards for doing it other than another shot at that valuable A rotation.

So all in all you are getting more prime items, more variety, more control over the loot you get at the cost of using relics faster reducing stockpiling.

 

15 minutes ago, Soketsu said:

Consuming X relic for X void rewards on 1 mission instead of 1 key for X prime reward, you might say "yeah but it's give relic too", yes, but not sure to get the relic I want, so the gear I loocking for

You realize that not all void keys were endless and you had to farm keys under the old system right? The only real benefit was that you could get multiple pieces of dukat fodder from a single key but even that wasn't guaranteed as several of the rotations had non prime items in them.

[Xebov]

42 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Endless relic runs are more rewarding than void endless runs were, offering traces, multipliers to credits and resources and already refined relics at certain milestones that actually increase the longer you stay all while getting shots at additional relics through the standard rotation. This makes them far more rewarding than the traditional AABC that we had in the void.

I agree with you, but he is right that endless missions are way to inaccessible. You dont get them when you want them, instead you need way to much luck to get one of the desired type and relic type poping up. For a drop-in drop-out game this is unacceptable.

[xRufus7x]

Just now, Xebov said:

I agree with you, but he is right that endless missions are way to inaccessible. You dont get them when you want them, instead you need way to much luck to get one of the desired type and relic type poping up. For a drop-in drop-out game this is unacceptable.

There is definitely room for improvement there. I offered the idea of always having two missions minimum for each type. One endless and one non endless.

[Xebov]

Just now, xRufus7x said:

There is definitely room for improvement there. I offered the idea of always having two missions minimum for each type. One endless and one non endless.

Which would help it a bit.

[ranks21]

what this game needs is an endurance setting on the highest planet on a tile with all three factions popping in with their squadron leader/commander @ 10 mins intervals.

starting with archwing just to get to that tile to make the tenno presence be known. amidst all the chaos of carving out your space, there will be limited drops of health ammo and energy for you to go on. < this serves as a way for players to use up the abundance of resources gathered to make those pizzas.

lots of stipulations can be added along with time spent in this mission with each faction flavoring same as the sorties> energy redux (10 mins)>  radiation hazard the next 10, pistol only etc even when the tenno has all weapons equipped only xx will be usable for that time span.

those that go past the 1 hr endurance mark will face new and more demanding challenging features>> ex. only  your 1st or second ability will be usable.

 my gosh just thinking of the mayhem but fun this can be  when youll have to choose your frame/ weapon/ companion wisely.

# makewarframegreatagain.

[Irorone]

5 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

You are also gaining relics back through the standard reward rotations and the guaranteed ones giving you a way to farm relics while cracking relics. Also, really, is grabbing traces in a game that is largely focused on mobility too much for you to handle?

From a far more limited pool that was heavily weighted towards giving you crap. Everyone seems to have forgotten how often we stayed for 20 minutes to get fusion cores or Orokin cells. Now you are guaranteed a prime part or at worst a forma.

 

Pugs rarely went past 20 in the void either. Occasionally 40 and very rarely 60. At least now you get tangible rewards for doing it other than another shot at that valuable A rotation.

So all in all you are getting more prime items, more variety, more control over the loot you get at the cost of using relics faster reducing stockpiling.

 

You realize that not all void keys were endless and you had to farm keys under the old system right? The only real benefit was that you could get multiple pieces of dukat fodder from a single key but even that wasn't guaranteed as several of the rotations had non prime items in them.

Except not all the time and not necessarily of the "era" of fissure you're running, so still not endless.  It's not that I can't handle, it's that it's just as mind numbingly tedious to pick up X maguffins to crack open Schrodinger's snake oil boxes.

Crap you could turn in for ducats, stronger mods in the case of cores, forma which is STILL a fairly common drop, or ya know prime parts that don't need to have ten maguffins shoved into a rock because "skill".  Reactant is an anti bot measure let's be blunt.  Also, it's STILL weighted just the actual number are more obscure than before thanks to the new RNG mechanics (Traces).

They don't even go to twenty NOW.  The same tangible rewards, REWARDSSSSSSSS, I could've gotten from a single key.  Afterwards my keyshare would still have THREE more runs each.

No no we're not, I've done lots of 40+ wave/min keys and that's eight rewards for survival and FORTY rewards, though not all prime parts but still more than any relic will give you.  The "variety" is ONLY in the map tiles, that's it, and we have to farm MORE to even get enough relics for ONE such run.  Also "more prime items" and "less stockpiling" at the cost of EXPONENTIALLY more farming for relics.

There are SOME benefits to void 2.0 but most who did the math considered it not worth what we lost from void 1.0.  We did get a bit variety in three factors, the prize picking, the "map variety", and actually I can't think of a third.

[Asdryu]

45 minutes ago, Irorone said:

snip

This is where I laugh histerically. Wether it indeed was cool, espeicially for hoarders such as me, to use one key to hoard the most possible items... It was paaaainful.
OH MY GOD the Ash systems that you had to wait every 20 minutes to HOPE to get them, but then "FORMA". 20 more minutes to go, and I swear, last time and I'll go (sure).

And the dual kama blade from t3c. I CANNOT forget these, ever! Wether now, you can just grab and organize your radiant squad from recruiting chat to get what you want instantly and from a random mission and without any risk of getting key scammed.

It also makes you kinda appreciate "trash" relics and the regular missions where you get 'em from. If you don't to waste the good ones, but want to make "void" runs, you use those.

[Soketsu]

1 hour ago, xRufus7x said:

You are also gaining relics back through the standard reward rotations and the guaranteed ones giving you a way to farm relics while cracking relics. Also, really, is grabbing traces in a game that is largely focused on mobility too much for you to handle?

From a far more limited pool that was heavily weighted towards giving you crap. Everyone seems to have forgotten how often we stayed for 20 minutes to get fusion cores or Orokin cells. Now you are guaranteed a prime part or at worst a forma.

 

Pugs rarely went past 20 in the void either. Occasionally 40 and very rarely 60. At least now you get tangible rewards for doing it other than another shot at that valuable A rotation.

So all in all you are getting more prime items, more variety, more control over the loot you get at the cost of using relics faster reducing stockpiling.

 

You realize that not all void keys were endless and you had to farm keys under the old system right? The only real benefit was that you could get multiple pieces of dukat fodder from a single key but even that wasn't guaranteed as several of the rotations had non prime items in them.

yeah much better, I have to farm more lesser mission before effectivly go to the void to get my new prime gear

The only better thing is now I don't have to farm the prime gear before they remove it, only to farm the relic

[Irorone]

Just now, RyuGold said:

Snip

Yeah?  Except in a keyshare you still had 4x the odds of a single key, and assuming everybody was on the up and up, aka the same as now only you actually got four rewards

Again you have to find a party willing to run those endless missions, minus the relics you get midrun, you have to pop TWENTY relics now to get to said marks, play THE SAME MISSIONS you did before just with different map tiles and yellow maguffin globes.  You can say the odds went up but until credible numbers on drop rates surface for new relics (and their tracing) to compare to key drop rates I'm not gonna call it better.  THEORETICALLY it's better for individual parts, if you relicshare because THAT didn't change with void 2.0, but till I see the math I'm not gonna say it's better odds old vs. new but new DEFINITELY has more steps to take to get to the same points.

"get what you want instantly" yeah guessing you missed the four forma memo.  Certain stuff is STILL pretty rare, and here's the kicker if it was a part from a survival you could get MULTIPLE chances from one key for that same reward previously.

I would laugh, but I've been on this carousel so long that there's really no point to it all.

[Asdryu]

4 minutes ago, Irorone said:

Yeah?  Except in a keyshare you still had 4x the odds of a single key, and assuming everybody was on the up and up, aka the same as now only you actually got four rewards

Again you have to find a party willing to run those endless missions, minus the relics you get midrun, you have to pop TWENTY relics now to get to said marks, play THE SAME MISSIONS you did before just with different map tiles and yellow maguffin globes.  You can say the odds went up but until credible numbers on drop rates surface for new relics (and their tracing) to compare to key drop rates I'm not gonna call it better.  THEORETICALLY it's better for individual parts, if you relicshare because THAT didn't change with void 2.0, but till I see the math I'm not gonna say it's better odds old vs. new but new DEFINITELY has more steps to take to get to the same points.

"get what you want instantly" yeah guessing you missed the four forma memo.  Certain stuff is STILL pretty rare, and here's the kicker if it was a part from a survival you could get MULTIPLE chances from one key for that same reward previously.

I would laugh, but I've been on this carousel so long that there's really no point to it all.

Kinda thinking it's a 50/50 situation like a: Omg I wish I was so known and praised as him/her! vs I wish I could be left alone for once instead of the feeling of getting stalked.

 

[xRufus7x]

12 minutes ago, Soketsu said:

yeah much better, I have to farm more lesser mission before effectivly go to the void to get my new prime gear

The only better thing is now I don't have to farm the prime gear before they remove it, only to farm the relic

You can farm lesser missions. You can also farm endless fissures or spy fissures or just buy relic packs through syndicates.

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, xRufus7x said:

Endless relic runs are more rewarding than void endless runs were, offering traces, multipliers to credits and resources and already refined relics at certain milestones that actually increase the longer you stay all while getting shots at additional relics through the standard rotation. This makes them far more rewarding than the traditional AABC that we had in the void.

 

So if your old "end game" was the void you should be far happier with the new "Endless Fissure" endgame which brings more variety, better rewards and actually scales rewards the longer you stay.

 

Not really.

You get more affinity & resources which neither of which you may need. I only need affinity when my Focus is reset. Even when it's close in rewards you have to wait for an Axi Endless otherwise you get 15-40 Endo rotation rewards. If you're solo then 75% of your relic uses will return in 15 Ducats which is below the avg you'd get from the old Void.

Axi Endless specifically is close to the old rewards, possibly a little better given the bonus relics you get but everything else is worse... so you know,, hope one is up.

Relic packs are worth about 8p in rep. Given the amount it will take to get the new set you want. You'd on avg be better off selling the rep and buying the parts.

 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

3 hours ago, Irorone said:

One endless relic run consumes potentially endless relics which took an endless amount of time to farm by comparison to "keys".  On top of that you have to run around grabbing ten maguffins for EVERY SINGLE ONE of those relics regardless of mode.

This.