We need an actual endgame again, and soon.

[Shockwave-]

5 hours ago, xRufus7x said:

Endless relic runs are more rewarding than void endless runs were, offering traces, multipliers to credits and resources and already refined relics at certain milestones that actually increase the longer you stay all while getting shots at additional relics through the standard rotation. This makes them far more rewarding than the traditional AABC that we had in the void.

 

So if your old "end game" was the void you should be far happier with the new "Endless Fissure" endgame which brings more variety, better rewards and actually scales rewards the longer you stay.

Not really. In teh void, if you ran your key in chat for a 60 min survival most people who joined your free key would stay 60 minutes.

In the endless fissure nobody stays. I've done 3 or 4 of them and now and 20 minutes /20 waves people start dropping out. They aren't incetivized to go to 40 minutes or 60. We had definite high level rewards at that level - the prime part they were after - in the void. In endless fissure we don't have that. Nobody runs raidents in endless, so it's only for ducat farming. Unless you have a 4 group of friends all ready to go, you can't really do endless well here, and if you want to the endless fissure you need  is usually not available. as in 80-90% of the time.

[lodoubt]

OP, how many times have you successfully run Nightmare Law of Retribution?

[Soketsu]

6 hours ago, xRufus7x said:

You can farm lesser missions. You can also farm endless fissures or spy fissures or just buy relic packs through syndicates.

RNG through the endless fisurre reward to got X time what I need, RNG  through syndicate sell to get X time the relic I need

before I just need to get 1 time a the right TX key I can go with it for 40 min 2h

If you got more luck than me fine for you

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

3 hours ago, lodoubt said:

OP, how many times have you successfully run Nightmare Law of Retribution?

Are you allowed to solo it yet?

[lodoubt]

3 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I mean, there is a point to be made that the long delayed Nightmare JV will be a better test of prowess, since you actually MUST kill the enemies that turn up.

I think DE has a notion that there's no market for challenging single player content, what with all the quests save for maybe Inaros and Limbo being ludicrously easy even solo. I'd like to see another side quest along the lines of those that is very clearly meant to separate the heroes from the scrubs, and has a solo requirement.

But to make a habit of doing this would be a waste of effort IMO. People would just get upset over the difficulty for something they feel entitled to access, and anything set at a difficulty such that say, only 5-10% of Warframe players can manage it would still be trivial to 2% of the players, who are simply that much more powerful. Furthermore, unless it is a sortie-esque thing (Which are repetitive and we're very well schooled in dealing with), the content is then immediately expended and you've occupied those players for all of like, 2 or 3 hours, after a few thousand man-hours of devwork.

Consider that having every primed mod at max is a staple of build videos, yet is not even remotely representative of the player base.

[Godzilla853]

I like the new relic system for endless but I wish there was something for the normal counterpart 

[Jackviator]

9 hours ago, lodoubt said:

OP, how many times have you successfully run Nightmare Law of Retribution?

3 or 4 times now I think. I forget the exact number. But I also don't see how that's relevant.

[Mudfam]

Uh, I thought the new endgame was doing the sortie, getting riven mods, farming kuva, rolling them and trying out old weapons with new buffs.

Correction: do the sortie, consistently get useless junk, stare at trade chat for an hour / until headache, buy mod for meta weapons because they only have stats worth buffing in the first place.

Oh well, we always have trials... Right..?

Cheese everything, complete objective, 1% chance of getting 1/20 arcane that isn't usles trash for one cosmetic setup on one frame.

*Sigh* what about focus then?

Get a lens, unlock one "way", laugh at how useless and impractical all the others are...

 

Basically, everything there is to do at "end game" is either completely worthless or potentially locked behind an exasperatingly idiotic RNG wall. There is no actually difficult content to challenge us, and no motivation to do it even if there was. We went from tedious grinding that at least rewarded effort to some kind of lottery system where only the lucky thrive, regardless of anything else.

[lodoubt]

52 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

3 or 4 times now I think. I forget the exact number. But I also don't see how that's relevant.

It's relevant because Nightmare LoR is the most challenging "static" content in the game right now and if your answer had been less than 2, you wouldn't have really reached the endgame that already exists. But good on you.

I've always been concerned that grinding Defense and Survival to insane per mission heights is a bland paradigm for endgame since you're just doing the same thing for a long-&#! time. That said, I realise it has always had its audience, even since the Void was introduced, and it's very good for two things mainly:
- The measurable and continuous achievement of being able to state your highest achieved wave / survival time. IMO Endurance events do and should fulfil this better than void does these days.
- An extremely good return of play time relative to the amount of time developers need to spend putting the content together. From this perspective, your complaints about the type of rewards we get has pretty significant credence since it really wouldn't take DE much more effort to satisfy your (actually quite well thought out unlike the last 5 threads with this title I've read) concerns. The core issue here is that their incentives (resources, credits and affinity) aren't actually stuff you go into an extended void mission to get. And their means of extending the effective worth of each relic you put in the same way as the old endless keys makes your prime part farm less and less accurate the more you go on (For that matter, a new relic every 5 rotations is quite slow even if we have to simply accept that things aren't how they used to be back in the days of keys).

That said simply pooping an ungodly amount relics onto you in endless mode is an inelegant solution that would never be implemented since you end up with more useable relics than you started with. An alternative might be if you were offered a choice of one from an increasingly large pool of relics each time you gained one? And I agree that to bring some life to things, some unique cosmetics do make things feel a little more milestone-ey, maybe stick a Sekhara in there somewhere (In the vicinity of interval 10, 12 or something).

Edited November 30, 2016 by lodoubt

[-N7-Leonhart]

16 hours ago, Jackviator said:

That still doesn't address the random nature of the endless fissure missions. If they were at the very least consistent, I might not have such a problem with them. 

Plus, y'know, as I mentioned (though I can't speak for everyone), a lot of us endgame players don't need creds, affinity and resources.

Then that makes it simple.

If you do not need the rewards, just grab a random endless mission and knock yourself out. Better yet, you can get on of the hardest survivals in the game like Mot or the Kuva Fortress one. Then again, the Defense mission on the Kuva Fortress is absolutely bat sh1t crazy.

Edited November 30, 2016 by -BM-Leonhart

[SenariousNex]

The end-game was T4S and T4D, which now have been rendered obsolete, considering the fact that when you run survival/def/int with AXI relics (the 'endgame')  the risk of doing more waves does not outweigh the reward. It is better to do 1-2 waves and restart.

Possible Solutions - 

1) Past 30 waves of defense give every opened relic a chance to award an additional prime part. You will see people running end game real damn quick.

2) Add more sortie levels, so they go up in difficulty but you get more chances to get that RNG reward per day.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

3 hours ago, lodoubt said:

I mean, there is a point to be made that the long delayed Nightmare JV will be a better test of prowess, since you actually MUST kill the enemies that turn up.

I think DE has a notion that there's no market for challenging single player content, what with all the quests save for maybe Inaros and Limbo being ludicrously easy even solo. I'd like to see another side quest along the lines of those that is very clearly meant to separate the heroes from the scrubs, and has a solo requirement.

But to make a habit of doing this would be a waste of effort IMO. People would just get upset over the difficulty for something they feel entitled to access, and anything set at a difficulty such that say, only 5-10% of Warframe players can manage it would still be trivial to 2% of the players, who are simply that much more powerful. Furthermore, unless it is a sortie-esque thing (Which are repetitive and we're very well schooled in dealing with), the content is then immediately expended and you've occupied those players for all of like, 2 or 3 hours, after a few thousand man-hours of devwork.

Consider that having every primed mod at max is a staple of build videos, yet is not even remotely representative of the player base.

I don't think people should be forced to solo them. I just think going solo should be an option.

See: Destiny's Raids, for the most part

[xRufus7x]

8 hours ago, Soketsu said:

RNG through the endless fisurre reward to got X time what I need, RNG  through syndicate sell to get X time the relic I need

before I just need to get 1 time a the right TX key I can go with it for 40 min 2h

If you got more luck than me fine for you

Quantity over luck. If you have your syndicates maxed when a new prime is released that is 20 relic packs before you even get to syndicate medallions. Stockpiling medallions is essentially the new key stockpiling. Standard gain will then get you another pack and a half a day, assuming you aren't collecting medallions or doing the daily missions, Another 2 ish if you are running them without collecting medallions and more if you are. 

[P0Pz]

Q1: So how could a End Game look like?

Q2: What could be the rewards?

 

A1:

We could have a this system.

It is every second day open, 24h total playable. No matter if success or fail. After 24h it will close the gates, for 24h, to restore the lost souls ;)

Meaning there are rooms. Each room you have to beat. Enemies do not  drop anything but credits or endo. After "cleaning" those rooms, the squat get a "cleaning reward", and the gate to the next room is opening. In some rooms might be mini bosses, with some guards. Each mini boss needs another tactic to take down. Total random in which room they are but a fix nummber that will spawn e.g. 6 but not more or less. 1 end boss to take down OR some typ of hold position till time runs out.

Enemies in end game:

A.1.1  Most of the none mini boss rooms should be with like 4-8 enemies.

This "Mobs" should have OP health and armor plus damage. (Some Leader MOBs should have skills)

Damage should be 2/5 from a miniboss

No 1 hit - dead...but if all 4-6 mobs hit 1 warframe and all hit 2-4 time he should die. ( if not healed)

 

A.1.2 Mass MOB rooms

Some few rooms should contain a lot of MOBs with lower hp but more dmg like (3/5 of a miniboss dmg) and some Leadermobs with tricky skills.

 

A.1.3 Miniboss

They should be tricky to beat.  6 miniboss rooms always spawning from maybe 10 possible. So 4 minibosses that will not apear each end game mission run. Each from them needs a total different tactic to beat. Also each miniboss weakness is always something different.

 

A.1.3 Endboss he is the gate to break through to get the best stuff InGame...at least should ;). 

There should be 5 different endbosses. Each like the minibosses with diffetent tactics to beat down and weakness.

 

A.2 Rewards

A.2.1  At the start-room the squad can set, at a display on the wall, the difficulty: Easy/Standart/Nightmare.

A.2.2 Depending on the difficulty, the Endboss will drop geranted out of his 3 possible special MODs/Items: 1/2/3 out of 3.

On top to have a like 20% chance to get double/trible/forfold the droping special stacking MOD.

 

A.2.3 Normal Mobs do not drop anything but credits or Endo.

A.2.4 Minibosses drop 1 out of 5 fix rewards

A.2.5 Each Endboss typ, drops granded always 1 out of 3 Mods. So there are 15 special Endboss MODs.

Those Special Endboss MODs are "stackable" with the exact same special Endboss MODs.

To stack this MODs, both have to be max lvl. After a successful stacking the new MOD will be reseted to lvl 0 but will show the stack lvl with +1 lvl 0 MOD.

But be warned! Stacking or crafting 2 same MODs has a 50% fail rate! If failing, the main MOD stays alive but the other one will break and is lost.

You should be able to stack to +5.

But every stack lvl needs double the amount of it.

Meaning:

To creat a +1 MOD lvl 0= +0 & +0 = +1 MOD

To creat a +2 MOD lvl 0 = +1 & +1 = +2 MOD

To creat a +3 MOD lvl 0 = +2 & +2 = +3 MOD

To creat a +4 MOD lvl 0 = +3 & +3 % +4 MOD

To creat a +5 MOD lvl 0 = +4 & +4 = +5 MOD

Example how many same MODs a +5 MOD needs: 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 16 = 46 MODs

 

Do not forget the 50% chance to break every time 1 MOD trying to stack it!!

 

Like every 3 Months, the hole Endboss MODs are taken out and replaced with some other Special Endboss MODs.

This is just a idea. Take out what you think is good and kick the rest in the ocean.

 

For me this could be a goal to grind the end game for fun, competition ( maybe add a top ranking list for Squat/playernames, who was the fastes ect,... or hmm one more point ^.-...)

 

A.2.6 Ranking System

Competition between Clans.

Add every weekend a Competition. All Clans that want to take part at it need to bring out theire 4 best players. Within a given time like 18 o'clock to 24 o'clock all clans have to try to beat the end game dungoun as fast as possible.

The clan that wins, get a % of all droped Endo and Credits for the next 7 Days. Till the next Endgame System/ Hunger Games/ The Tenno Games/ ... Raid ! ♡

Edit:

Maybe let the Clans fight for the right to have access for the weekend raid during the week. So the best (fastest) 20 clans are standing against each others.

Maybe add a function to spectate...

Edited December 1, 2016 by P0Pz

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

53 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Quantity over luck. If you have your syndicates maxed when a new prime is released that is 20 relic packs before you even get to syndicate medallions. Stockpiling medallions is essentially the new key stockpiling. Standard gain will then get you another pack and a half a day, assuming you aren't collecting medallions or doing the daily missions, Another 2 ish if you are running them without collecting medallions and more if you are. 

Which is just even more tedium and grind over the last system. Under the old system, I could stockpile keys just by playing the game. I play Warframe for the speed and the combat, not a slow scavenger hunt. At the very least DE should make the medallions, supply caches, and special crates have a different icon on the map if you are using something like loot radar.

[xRufus7x]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Which is just even more tedium and grind over the last system. Under the old system, I could stockpile keys just by playing the game. I play Warframe for the speed and the combat, not a slow scavenger hunt. At the very least DE should make the medallions, supply caches, and special crates have a different icon on the map if you are using something like loot radar.

Equipping a sigil isn't really all that tedious unless you are hardcore into fashion frame. Also I'm not sure if people understand this but DE doesn't want us sitting on thousands of keys. 

[Jackviator]

4 hours ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Then that makes it simple.

If you do not need the rewards, just grab a random endless mission and knock yourself out. Better yet, you can get on of the hardest survivals in the game like Mot or the Kuva Fortress one. Then again, the Defense mission on the Kuva Fortress is absolutely bat sh1t crazy.

Erm... I kinda already addressed that tho. There needs to be an incentive or people just won't be interested in doing them just for the Hek of it.

20 hours ago, Jackviator said:

There's just not an incentive to get us to keep going in endless missions other than just for the Hek of it. Basically, there simply aren't enemies that can withstand our powers and weapons in normal, everyday play, and while they do exist in longer survivals and such, there's no reason for us to want to go that far anyway other than for the challenge itself, and that doesn't motivate most people enough.

 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

8 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Equipping a sigil isn't really all that tedious unless you are hardcore into fashion frame. Also I'm not sure if people understand this but DE doesn't want us sitting on thousands of keys. 

I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about micromanaging to try to keep up more than two syndicates and searching for medallions.

9 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Also I'm not sure if people understand this but DE doesn't want us sitting on thousands of keys. 

So let people exchange 10 of one type of key for the same type a tier higher, and stop putting all the good parts on a single key. If you don't want me to have 1000 unused T1S keys then start putting good gear on them instead of shoving it all in T3S Rotation C.

[xRufus7x]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about micromanaging to try to keep up more than two syndicates and searching for medallions.

So let people exchange 10 of one type of key for the same type a tier higher, and stop putting all the good parts on a single key. If you don't want me to have 1000 unused T1S keys then start putting good gear on them instead of shoving it all in T3S Rotation C.

 

You don't need to micromanage unless you are doing 5. Max two on same side pick third on same side and passively level opposite side. 

[kuchn]

tried to find an old post of mine...gone from my log and cba to look in the forums for the topic...it was also about endgame

tldr: what you want is a distinction between players in regards to skill (or teambuilding or somesuch)...as long as DE avoids anything related to a skillbarrier u WONT EVER HAVE SATISFYING ENDGAME
example: pvp armor set only available via pvp was not even taken under consideration cuz communitybads would cry

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

22 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

 

You don't need to micromanage unless you are doing 5. Max two on same side pick third on same side and passively level opposite side. 

I have Steel Meridian and Red Veil maxed

[xRufus7x]

2 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I have Steel Meridian and Red Veil maxed

I would say tank Steel Meridian intentionally, buying relic packs along the way, That will get you 16 packs. Level up Perin and New Loka and then level Steel up again through Red Veil. You can maintain Steel but it is actually more efficient to just tank it and relevel it.

[Soketsu]

7 hours ago, xRufus7x said:

Quantity over luck. If you have your syndicates maxed when a new prime is released that is 20 relic packs before you even get to syndicate medallions. Stockpiling medallions is essentially the new key stockpiling. Standard gain will then get you another pack and a half a day, assuming you aren't collecting medallions or doing the daily missions, Another 2 ish if you are running them without collecting medallions and more if you are. 

Yeah so I've got to spend more time loocking for syndicate items trough 8*3*number of R5 syndicate ? and after all this I still got 0 garanties that I will have enough relic where with 0 key it was anought in case of defence, survival, interception mission ? yes thx eat moar of my time

 

4 hours ago, xRufus7x said:

Equipping a sigil isn't really all that tedious unless you are hardcore into fashion frame. Also I'm not sure if people understand this but DE doesn't want us sitting on thousands of keys. 

Yes I do it from the very begginning, regular spending my influence through relics, still I didn't get enough relics in order to get what I want even with 4 syndicate and I don't think I can get more.

Ok so why didn't they put a limit ? Was I the only one to buy key because I don't wanted to waste my time on lesser mission, but on void mission for prime items ?

[xRufus7x]

1 hour ago, Soketsu said:

Yeah so I've got to spend more time loocking for syndicate items trough 8*3*number of R5 syndicate ? and after all this I still got 0 garanties that I will have enough relic where with 0 key it was anought in case of defence, survival, interception mission ? yes thx eat moar of my time

 

 

Getting there is time consuming but once all four are maxed its easy to maintain them and worth it in the long run not only for relics but other syndicate gear.

1 hour ago, Soketsu said:

Yes I do it from the very begginning, regular spending my influence through relics, still I didn't get enough relics in order to get what I want even with 4 syndicate and I don't think I can get more.

 

Why couldn't you get more?

 

1 hour ago, Soketsu said:

Ok so why didn't they put a limit ? Was I the only one to buy key because I don't wanted to waste my time on lesser mission, but on void mission for prime items ?

very few items in Warframe have a hard cap that isn't in the millions most likely because it discourages farming. You can still buy relics just like you could keys so I am not sure what your point there is.

[Soketsu]

Just now, xRufus7x said:

Getting there is time consuming but once all four are maxed its easy to maintain them and worth it in the long run not only for relics but other syndicate gear.

Why couldn't you get more?

 

very few items in Warframe have a hard cap that isn't in the millions most likely because it discourages farming. You can still buy relics just like you could keys so I am not sure what your point there is.

ok 1st, it's been a while since I maintain 4 syndicate to maximum and unlocked all gear so it's not a problem, my problem it's was not my goal to spend my influence in RNG drop relic

because trying to maintain more syndicate is way too inefficient

 

... simple , you said

Quote

Equipping a sigil isn't really all that tedious unless you are hardcore into fashion frame. Also I'm not sure if people understand this but DE doesn't want us sitting on thousands of keys. 

I assume then you got information from DE then

 

in the end I think it's pointless, you like the new system, I prefer the old endless void system