Alternative to Riven Mod Cap

[UvBenServed]

One of my main criticisms of the riven mod system is that the maximum amount of riven mods you're allowed to have in your inventory is 15. This system was put into place to try to encourage us to experiment with less used weapons. But I know that whenever I get up to 15 riven mods, I'm going to have start getting rid of some of them, starting with mods for weapons I still don't care about. Personally, I'd rather get rid of the cap altogether, but if we have to have some sort of limitation on how many riven mods we can have, then I'd like to propose an alternative:

Put a cap on the maximum number of riven mods we can have for each weapon. Let's say 2 for now.

So if I only had 2 riven mods and they were both for the boltor (and by extension the telos boltor and boltor prime), I would not be able to receive any more riven mods for the boltor. If I tried to trade for another boltor riven mod, I would get an error message. If I unveiled a riven mod, it would be for any weapon other than the boltor. BUT, if I got rid of one of my 2 boltor riven mods, then I would be able to receive another one. If anyone happened to have 15 boltor riven mods before this change, then they would be able to keep them all. But again, they wouldn't be able to get any more boltor riven mods unless the got rid of 14 of their current ones. And If someone ever reached the point where they had 2 riven mods for every rifle in the game, then they could still earn veiled mods from sorties or trade for them, but they wouldn't be able to unveil them without getting rid of another riven mod first.

This change, imo, would "encourage creativity and choice" more than the current 15 mod limit.

[(XBOX)JediMasterWill9]

Extremely awesome idea.

[bowiespoon]

I like this idea, +1

[Icarian_Justicar]

This is a good idea in theory, but what happens to those who can get 2 rivens of all the non-popular weapons and abuses this since they would only get soma / dread / tonkor / cernos rivens? They would make 1k p + giving that much more power to veteran players over the market. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Icarican_Justicar

[Xebov]

The main reason for the limit might be simply database space. Unlike other mods, these require alot more data stored about it, so they make a simple calculation. Thats the same reason why we cant color armor attachments and syandanas individualy.

[Drasiel]

I can't help but think that the main reason we can each only have 15 riven mods is due to server space. See each attribute of the mod has to be saved uniquely for each mod and for each person who has the mod. While that might not seem like that much data but with ~20k players logging in on steam alone (remember there will be non steam clients and both the consoles as well) that is a massive chunk of data.

[UvBenServed]

10 minutes ago, Icarican_Justicar said:

This is a good idea in theory, but what happens to those who can get 2 rivens of all the non-popular weapons and abuses this since they would only get soma / dread / tonkor / cernos rivens? They would make 1k p + giving that much more power to veteran players over the market. 

This is the only potential problem I could think of that I didn't really have an easy answer for. My thinking is that even with this change, it would still be difficult to get enough riven mods for that to be an effective way to earn plat, especially since it would still (theoretically) take quite a bit of kuva to get a decent roll. But I also think that an influx in the number of desirable riven mods would (again, theoretically) cause the market price to drop naturally. Admittedly, It's not a perfect answer. But frankly, introducing mods that allow for top tier weapons to become even more powerful would always inevitably lead to this problem. The only actual solution I can think of is to prevent the trading of mods with a "faint" disposition, but that would almost definitely make more people angry than happy.

[UvBenServed]

22 minutes ago, Xebov said:

The main reason for the limit might be simply database space. Unlike other mods, these require alot more data stored about it, so they make a simple calculation. Thats the same reason why we cant color armor attachments and syandanas individualy.

 

20 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

I can't help but think that the main reason we can each only have 15 riven mods is due to server space. See each attribute of the mod has to be saved uniquely for each mod and for each person who has the mod. While that might not seem like that much data but with ~20k players logging in on steam alone (remember there will be non steam clients and both the consoles as well) that is a massive chunk of data.

 

Huh, I hadn't thought about that. I'm still not happy with the mod cap, but if this is the case, then I'm more sympathetic as to why it exist and why it would be difficult to change.

[Icarian_Justicar]

5 minutes ago, UvBenServed said:

This is the only potential problem I could think of that I didn't really have an easy answer for. My thinking is that even with this change, it would still be difficult to get enough riven mods for that to be an effective way to earn plat, especially since it would still (theoretically) take quite a bit of kuva to get a decent roll. But I also think that an influx in the number of desirable riven mods would (again, theoretically) cause the market price to drop naturally. Admittedly, It's not a perfect answer. But frankly, introducing mods that allow for top tier weapons to become even more powerful would always inevitably lead to this problem. The only actual solution I can think of is to prevent the trading of mods with a "faint" disposition, but that would almost definitely make more people angry than happy.

people would just buy 2 trash mods for 50p each - because some people have 3k + plat to sink - and do this and sadly relying on the community to sell items for lower because there is more of them.. is never the case greed > all in warframe. Here's an answer just make it if you try to get a mod this way it has a far lower chance of having good stats / mods it can still get good rolls just at a Higher RNG is all I can think of to slow this from happening. 

 

Edit : Yeah that was my other thought, database size only reason i can see for them limiting it. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Icarican_Justicar

[UvBenServed]

20 minutes ago, Icarican_Justicar said:

people would just buy 2 trash mods for 50p each - because some people have 3k + plat to sink - and do this and sadly relying on the community to sell items for lower because there is more of them.. is never the case greed > all in warframe. Here's an answer just make it if you try to get a mod this way it has a far lower chance of having good stats / mods it can still get good rolls just at a Higher RNG is all I can think of to slow this from happening. 

It's less about relying on sellers to be benevolent and more about relying on buyers to be more frugal once they realize they have more options. Supply and demand. The invisible hand and all that. Again though, this is all theoretical and it could end up working out very different in practice.

The only problem I have with your idea is that it sounds like it would also hinder players who aren't trying to take advantage of the system. People who just so happened to get 100 riven mods and got rid of one of them because it was 20 re-rolls in and getting way too expensive to keep trying. I'd hate to be in that position only to have my already terrible RNG be even worse.

How about this? Once you get a riven mod for a specific weapon, you won't be able to receive another riven mod for that weapon for the next week or so. So if I got a second boltor riven mod, even if I sold it, I would have wait at least another week before I could unveil or trade for another boltor riven mod. Again, I don't think this is a perfect solution, but it should help.

[Racter]

We don't need an alternative to the cap, it just needs to be removed. There is absolutely no good reason for it now, and it'll be even more ridiculous later when there are shotgun/secondary/melee/warframe/sentinel/pet/arch wing/arch weapon mods as well.

[Callback]

Change it to 1 riven capacity for every weapon slot you own.

 

Done.

 

Now slots cost plat but are bundled with the thing that would prompt you to want to keep rivens in the first place.

 

Considering it's not going to be limited to rifles forever.

[Sushi_Desires]

This sounds good to me.

I have 15 interesting Rivens right now that I don't want to sell off/destroy, so now I am reluctant to even complete the third sortie... I like to save it for right after reset so that it rewards 200k credits (with booster).

Other than Kuva, credits are really the only resource that I have to farm for constantly, despite spending hard-earned platinum to have 100% uptime on credit boosters since I switched to pc from console. And yes, I am actually trading for this platinum, so selling a Nekros set for instance, costs about 100k credits just to make the exchange.

Not optimizing credit gains feels like a waste, thus my compulsion to save the sortie (completing it is roughly equal to spending 16 minutes doing Hieracon speedruns; a full quarter-hour *not* farming).

And so it follows that after reset, I end up having my character just standing in the ship because I don't want to waste the 4x credit multiplier, all  the while I cannot in my right mind do the sortie, because I don't want to sell off these mods or just discard a veiled one (one of the most coveted items right now).

Because leveling the mods to experience their effects requires a moderately large commitment of Endo, and more importantly credits, the process to actually experiment with what I have is slow, and the mods queue up. Why in the hell would I get rid of something that I haven't even gotten to test out yet?

Like many have suggested, this has lead to me only focusing on the mods for my favorite weapons, and not even necessarily to make the overpowered.

In many ways, chancing upon a "creative" stat combination is just as rare as rolling a godly one. I am not going to 'get creative' with a mod that doubles my fire rate and reload speed if it reduces my damage by 90% too.

I completed sortie 3 for the credits just yesterday, feeling a sense of dread the whole time, and guess what? I was forced to scrap a veiled mod, for which I received a 28 Endo recompense.

This limit is not forcing me to 'express my creativity', or whatever the token phrase is now, but is actually pushing me away from the game instead.

[Snowbluff]

On 11/30/2016 at 3:29 PM, Drasiel said:

I can't help but think that the main reason we can each only have 15 riven mods is due to server space. See each attribute of the mod has to be saved uniquely for each mod and for each person who has the mod. While that might not seem like that much data but with ~20k players logging in on steam alone (remember there will be non steam clients and both the consoles as well) that is a massive chunk of data.

Easy. Delete Operator and Archwing content. That should free up database.

[Xarteros]

On 01/12/2016 at 8:15 AM, Icarican_Justicar said:

This is a good idea in theory, but what happens to those who can get 2 rivens of all the non-popular weapons and abuses this since they would only get soma / dread / tonkor / cernos rivens? They would make 1k p + giving that much more power to veteran players over the market. 

This would require you to have two mods for every single rifle weapon in the entire game. Once they expand this to include shotguns, pistols and melee, then possibly archwing, companions, warframes etc, this is going to be a very. VERY slow process.

Then, once you've finally done this, and all you get is popular riven mods, you'll find that the value of these drops drastically, because price depends on supply and demand. If everyone is rushing to do this, there is a lot of supply and a decreasing demand.

Plus, there are like a trillion ways to stop that exploit entirely. For instance, once you unveil a riven mod for a particular weapon, other mods you unveil can't be of that same weapon type for 14 days (stopping you from opening any at all if those are your only ones). 

 

On 01/12/2016 at 8:27 AM, Xebov said:

The main reason for the limit might be simply database space. Unlike other mods, these require alot more data stored about it, so they make a simple calculation. Thats the same reason why we cant color armor attachments and syandanas individualy.

The Riven stat formula is not actually as complex as people think.

The Riven mod has an amount of 'power' based off its Mastery Rank requirement, plus extra power based on any penalty stats and the type/strength of those stats. The positive stats then each gain a randomised fraction of that 'power', which is then adjusted by the type of stat. This is why the values are all over the place, the stats are each weighted by their multiplier, and based of a fraction from the beginning. Very rarely does this combination result in an even stat progression (without decimals, that is).

It's basically just a short formula for each, with each step of the formula being just as simple as the memory it takes to save our warframe colour schemes. Possibly even less.
 

[oshunter124]

1 hour ago, Snowbluff said:

Easy. Delete Operator and Archwing content. That should free up database.

Eh I sorta like the operator tbh. It gives a non-stealth frame a option.

[Drasiel]

8 hours ago, Snowbluff said:

Easy. Delete Operator and Archwing content. That should free up database.

Some of us actually those things you know.

[Xebov]

8 hours ago, Xarteros said:

The Riven stat formula is not actually as complex as people think.

It dont has to be. You have to count in several factors here. The limit needs to be reserved for every player, active or not. The Database has redundancy and several backups. Database access slows down the more data you need to pull from it.

[Icarian_Justicar]

14 hours ago, Xarteros said:

This would require you to have two mods for every single rifle weapon in the entire game. Once they expand this to include shotguns, pistols and melee, then possibly archwing, companions, warframes etc, this is going to be a very. VERY slow process.

Then, once you've finally done this, and all you get is popular riven mods, you'll find that the value of these drops drastically, because price depends on supply and demand. If everyone is rushing to do this, there is a lot of supply and a decreasing demand.

Plus, there are like a trillion ways to stop that exploit entirely. For instance, once you unveil a riven mod for a particular weapon, other mods you unveil can't be of that same weapon type for 14 days (stopping you from opening any at all if those are your only ones). 

You mean, WF the glitchy game roll in something like a lock that they haven't got in the game yet? - cough - and pistol mods have nothing to do with RIFLE rivens, I am guessing since they have a type it will be a different type of riven for pistols etc, so having all unpopular RIFLE riven mods would still give you the popular ones and you mean supply and demand? That point is invalid in WF since people were selling nova prime 1 day after she was vaulted for 200p when the supply would of been at its greatest, in this game its greed > supply.