《 Sorties , RNG And The Need For A Token System 》

[Relentless.Zen]

6 minutes ago, Nyu.Gen said:

 

Btw, Arcanes is a good ideas should put into the Sortie mission. I need it, but I don't have enough time to run LOR to get it. 

 

You dont have 30minutes per day? :D and 20 for JV xD

[Shinobi3S]

Just now, --Q--DeineMudda said:

You dont have 30minutes per day? :D and 20 for JV xD

When you need a specific arcane set it take hours. Besides, I got crashed eventually when going to LOR.  

Yeah, sound stupid but I don't have enough time for it. I only can play about 2 hours/day.

[Relentless.Zen]

1 minute ago, Nyu.Gen said:

When you need a specific arcane set it take hours. Besides, I got crashed eventually when going to LOR.  

 

No it doesnt, because you can just do it once a day.

[(PSN)mmcareen]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 9:51 AM, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

Sorties And A New Direction

Sorties are a good idea but even with TWW changes the rng can get people insanely salty. Mainly because of the time invested into them each day (once a day) only to pull items they don't need or want over and over.

 

The Token System

Although this may not be what DE wants because RNG is useful to keep people going.

But a simple token system would make the Sortie dailies actually worthwhile. That way you guys don't need to spend more time and effort on trying to make it fair for all.

 

☆  Example

-》 First mission rewards : 15 tokens

-》 Second mission rewards : 35 tokens

-》Third mission rewards : 50 tokens

▪ Total - 100 tokens per day

 

( We actually have room on our liset for a console or chuck it on the relay. )

With the lack of RNG , increase prices (on some) and change what you can get.

 

- 》2000 Endo 50 tokens / 4000 Endo 100 tokens?.

- 》Riven Mod Rifle 150 tokens?.

- 》3 Nitain  75 tokens?.

- 》 Reactor 175 tokens?.

- 》Catalyst 175 tokens?.

- 》Forma 100 tokens?.

- 》 Exlius 150 tokens?.

- 》Legendary core ???.

 

☆  Possible future? 

- 》Arcanes  common 75 tokens , uncommon 150 tokens ,  rare 200 tokens?.

- 》Kuva 1500 50 tokens / 3000 Kuva 100 tokens?.

 

☆  Possible Names?

¤ Chitin

¤ Honor Mark

¤ Lotus Badge

¤ Indicia

[ Post other possible names below ]

 

You know you want to DE... ?

I'm completely against this idea, next you will have people looking for token systems in relics.  RNG is part of this game, the frustration of not getting what you want, and the absolute joy you get when you finally get what you want.

Credits, plat, ducats, we really don't need another system in place.  Not to mention you would probably have to go to a relay or somewhere to turn them in which is another pain.  If DE puts weapons or something along the sort back into sorties, yes it could be a idea, but seeing its only repeatable rewards there really is no point.

Arcanes are a horrible idea as well, what would be the point in running the raid if all you get is arcanes and credits but you can get them out of sorties.  Also the fact that it would completely destroy the arcane market on console which is bad enough as it is.  People who don't have extra money to spend on plat, who run the raids to sell the arcanes so they can continue to play the game and not have to worry about having a slot.  I would not spend 2 hours a day running all 3 raids, when I can just get them for sorties.  How quick would I have a Arcane Energize set?  pretty quickly. 

With the token system you would also have more people stop running sorties.  Run it until you get what you want, which with a token system would not take very long, and just stop. 

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)mmcareen said:

I'm completely against this idea, next you will have people looking for token systems in relics.  RNG is part of this game, the frustration of not getting what you want, and the absolute joy you get when you finally get what you want.

Credits, plat, ducats, we really don't need another system in place.  Not to mention you would probably have to go to a relay or somewhere to turn them in which is another pain.  If DE puts weapons or something along the sort back into sorties, yes it could be a idea, but seeing its only repeatable rewards there really is no point.

Arcanes are a horrible idea as well, what would be the point in running the raid if all you get is arcanes and credits but you can get them out of sorties.  Also the fact that it would completely destroy the arcane market on console which is bad enough as it is.  People who don't have extra money to spend on plat, who run the raids to sell the arcanes so they can continue to play the game and not have to worry about having a slot.  I would not spend 2 hours a day running all 3 raids, when I can just get them for sorties.  How quick would I have a Arcane Energize set?  pretty quickly. 

With the token system you would also have more people stop running sorties.  Run it until you get what you want, which with a token system would not take very long, and just stop. 

Very honest feedback Careen and definitely some good points. For myself i don't feel Arcanes are really a worthy reward of raids.

Personally i would like to see a new gear version that is in the same category as Wraith and Vandals in raids. Possibly even exclusive fashion sets. ?

As for the platinum issue of selling arcanes to make ends meat. Warframe is a f2p game and with that we will always have ways of making platinum.

Check out some of the insane Riven mod prices going on pc atm. ?

I still believe in the token system but i understand not everyone will be a fan. ☺

Gonna up vote your comment because i respect the honesty of it.

Edited December 2, 2016 by (PS4)Mofojokers

[Trichouette]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)mmcareen said:

I'm completely against this idea, next you will have people looking for token systems in relics.  RNG is part of this game, the frustration of not getting what you want, and the absolute joy you get when you finally get what you want.

There is a difference between something you can run an infinite amount of time (farming missions for relic & fissure missions to open said relics) and sortie that can only be done ONCE a day.

And even when you get "the joy" ("absolute" ? please) to get what you want (riven mod currently is the most wanted thing) you still have to deal with RNG to unveil it.

There is enough RNG already

[(PSN)mmcareen]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

Very honest feedback Careen and definitely some good points. For myself i don't feel Arcanes are really a worthy reward of raids.

Personally i would like to see a new gear version that is in the same category as Wraith and Vandals in raids. Possibly even exclusive fashion sets. ?

As for the platinum issue of selling arcanes to make ends meat. Warframe is a f2p game and with that we will always have ways of making platinum.

Check out some of the insane Riven mod prices going on pc atm. ?

I still believe in the token system but i understand not everyone will be a fan. ☺

Gonna up vote your comment because i respect the honesty of it.

You really can't compare PC and console, they are completely different.  I have seen people on PS4 selling MAXED Primed mods for 120P, while at the same time, I'm selling unranked ones on PC for 100P.  You can buy most Prisma weapons when the Void Trader is here for 10P, the same goes for Primed Mods, you would never see that in PC market.  The prices and economy of both are so different they should not be compared.  I run my sortie daily on my PC account, very rarely do I miss a day, with a token system, I would have what I want by now and have stopped running them long ago

[(PSN)mmcareen]

11 hours ago, Trichouette said:

There is a difference between something you can run an infinite amount of time (farming missions for relic & fissure missions to open said relics) and sortie that can only be done ONCE a day.

And even when you get "the joy" ("absolute" ? please) to get what you want (riven mod currently is the most wanted thing) you still have to deal with RNG to unveil it.

There is enough RNG already

You did it with sorties, why can't you do it with relics?  With raids?  Raids you can only do once a day.  Sorties are easy, most days are quick, and the rewards are not even that great for anyone who has been playing the game for any amount of time.  I don't need Endo, I don't Nitain, I don't need reactors or catalysts, so the only thing I will need in them is riven mods.  Once I get them (as they would be the only reward I would pick with a token system), sorties would be completely points for me to do.  Save up tokens so the next thing that gets put in there I can buy 50 of them on day one and charge a fortune for them?  That's about the only reason I could see to do them. 

"Absolute"?  yes absolute, I don't remember which prime it was, but the rare piece dropped in T3S, spent almost 18 hours running them in total before the part I wanted dropped.  When it did, happy wasn't even the word to use.  Forma blueprint, Sicarus Prime Blueprints, frustration levels running high to say the least, so yes I would say absolute would be a perfect word to use for it.  It might have only lasted 10 seconds, but it happened.

The whole riven RNG is a completely different topic on its own.  I got two Cernos ones in a row.  Got 2000 Endo not 20 minutes.  Took me about 25 minutes to a half hour to do all 3 missions, wasn't hard at all, not even remotely hard, I get to pick my reward?  I can understand if it was challenging but the raids are harder then sorties, and the raids are not that hard.  I do all 3 nightly, in less then 2 hours, but I'm going to get stuck with Awakening, Consequence and Resistance yet can pick a Legendary Core from a simple sortie?  Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

6 hours ago, (PS4)mmcareen said:

Calling card

I still hope to win you over. ?

So as i understand it :

1. You don't want Arcanes in sorties because they are a good revenue of platinum for non spenders.

2. A token system would allow you to bypass unwanted items and just save tokens for items you want.

3. Without RNG in sorties you feel you would have no reason to do them on a regular basis.

4. Sorties are too easy for you to deserve the non rng path.

So let's see if i can convince you otherwise.

Definitely alot of valid points here and i can't expect you to respect my opinion if i don't respect yours. ?

1 A. As i said in my other post i still believe a huge problem to raiding in warframe outside of cc spamming is rewards.

If they offered a raid variation of weapons like the Vandals. It would not only help to reward raiders but give them a new platinum revenue with selling the parts.

Then they could look at adding a armor set exclusive to each raid they release to give that *show off* feeling of completion.

Of course the other side of it would be a match making system like LFR in wow and a better raiding system overall.

1. B As for the platinum issue from making good amounts from selling them. I am unable to help change your mind on that because it is true. But i hope you can see the bigger picture beyond the profiteering side of it.

2. Different people have different wants and see value in things others may not. Also I would not expect cores to be cheap at all we are talking the 1500 - 2000 area of tokens. 

3. RNG is always fake content and you should feel rewarded for doing dailies each day. It should also help to see players logging in more each day as not everyone makes use of the daily login system.

As they add in the other Riven types and hopefully remove the cap. 

The demand for them for every weapon  Riven type will rise and excess will always be good for selling regardless of platform.

4. Although sorties are on the easy side for veterans they are not easy for everyone. hopefully with future updates to the balance of enemies and weapons alike we will see a better version appear. 

Hopefully i have convinced you that this system may not be as bad as once thought Careen. ?

[Trichouette]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

-snip-

I don't even get why you're still trying :D

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

1 minute ago, Trichouette said:

I don't even get why you're still trying :D

Careen represents another side to the debate. If i can convince him that this system is the better path for sorties.

It will help the case of bringing it to the attention of DE. ?

I also do know him through my alliance and know that he is very well experienced with the game. 

Plus if i didn't respect his side then i couldn't ask him to respect ours. ?

[Trichouette]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

Careen represents another side to the debate. If i can convince him that this system is the better path for sorties.

It will help the case of bringing it to the attention of DE. ?

I also do know him through my alliance and know that he is very well experienced with the game. 

Plus if i didn't respect his side then i couldn't ask him to respect ours. ?

You've got a point, a good one, but I don't see how you can convince someone that thinks "playing sortie everyday and having a chance of geting absolutely NOTHING useful in months is something valuable in this game."

I do think sortie & raid need a way to reduce the rng, and a token system is perfect, you farm and get what you want, not now, but later.

I'm fine with the relic system and the rest of the RNG because you can farm it indefinitely.

I can just go farm more relic that I need and open them, but I can't farm more sortie nor raid, and every day I have a higher chance to get something useless than something needed.

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

1 minute ago, Trichouette said:

You've got a point, a good one, but I don't see how you can convince someone that thinks "playing sortie everyday and having a chance of geting absolutely NOTHING useful in months is something valuable in this game."

I do think sortie & raid need a way to reduce the rng, and a token system is perfect, you farm and get what you want, not now, but later.

I'm fine with the relic system and the rest of the RNG because you can farm it indefinitely.

I can just go farm more relic that I need and open them, but I can't farm more sortie nor raid, and every day I have a higher chance to get something useless than something needed.

O definitely don't worry I will not give up on a token system for it. ?

I always enjoy token systems over pure rng.

I don't mind rng in games like Diablo 3 where i can just keep running rifts over and over. But any system that has a lock out period (like dailies) is better suited for a token system. ?

[Satchii]

along with token system it would also be nice if we got a selection between 3 rewards that rolls unique [or not] where you select one of them, so if lucky you get selection between riven mod, catalyst and legendary core where you can only select one of them

Edited December 3, 2016 by Satchii

[erny0507]

take out reactor and catalysts and its perfect, those 2 are very important way of making money for DE, so it could backfire over all to have them so low on price and access (2 days of sortie = a reactor with those number)

[PsychoDraugr]

I say this is a way better option that the actual one, because it's just endo endo all over the place, got a riven mod yesterday like it was my lucky day or something, all the other sorties including todays have been spamendo, totally agree.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

It should be 1 token, per tier, and legendary cores should be only available as rare drops from T3 sorties.

Also, your numbers are way too low.

Assuming each tier gave only 1 token, so up to 3 tokens a day, taters should cost 21 tokens to 42 tokens.

Edited December 3, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

It should be 1 token, per tier, and legendary cores should be only available as rare drops from T3 sorties.

Also, your numbers are way too low.

Assuming each tier gave only 1 token, so up to 3 tokens a day, taters should cost 21 tokens to 42 tokens.

?

 》Legendary core ???. Possibly kept as a ultra rare drop from sortie 3 - [Bonus].

The numbers are just for my example and would definitely be reworked if DE went with a token system.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

?

 》Legendary core ???. Possibly kept as a ultra rare drop from sortie 3 - [Bonus].

The numbers are just for my example and would definitely be reworked if DE went with a token system.

Indeed. Just saying more realistic numbers might get people to take the suggestion more seriously, and DE won't let you get a tater sooner than a week or two without plat. A week or two seems more reasonable because that is about how often they give them out as gifts of the lotus anyway.

[A68PL]

+1 for the idea!

[Valthryn]

Tokens are a decent idea that would take out RNG, but also leave the rarer items like Legendary Cores less expensive, and no longer a nice bump in revenue for non spenders. They simply need to stop diluting the drop table in Sorties with S#&$ nobody wants, or at least nobody wants to get from sorties since they're worth 5-20 plat at best, or nothing in the case of Nitain.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Daggerpaw1

[(PSN)mmcareen]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

I still hope to win you over. ?

So as i understand it :

1. You don't want Arcanes in sorties because they are a good revenue of platinum for non spenders.

2. A token system would allow you to bypass unwanted items and just save tokens for items you want.

3. Without RNG in sorties you feel you would have no reason to do them on a regular basis.

4. Sorties are too easy for you to deserve the non rng path.

So let's see if i can convince you otherwise.

Definitely alot of valid points here and i can't expect you to respect my opinion if i don't respect yours. ?

1 A. As i said in my other post i still believe a huge problem to raiding in warframe outside of cc spamming is rewards.

If they offered a raid variation of weapons like the Vandals. It would not only help to reward raiders but give them a new platinum revenue with selling the parts.

Then they could look at adding a armor set exclusive to each raid they release to give that *show off* feeling of completion.

Of course the other side of it would be a match making system like LFR in wow and a better raiding system overall.

1. B As for the platinum issue from making good amounts from selling them. I am unable to help change your mind on that because it is true. But i hope you can see the bigger picture beyond the profiteering side of it.

2. Different people have different wants and see value in things others may not. Also I would not expect cores to be cheap at all we are talking the 1500 - 2000 area of tokens. 

3. RNG is always fake content and you should feel rewarded for doing dailies each day. It should also help to see players logging in more each day as not everyone makes use of the daily login system.

As they add in the other Riven types and hopefully remove the cap. 

The demand for them for every weapon  Riven type will rise and excess will always be good for selling regardless of platform.

4. Although sorties are on the easy side for veterans they are not easy for everyone. hopefully with future updates to the balance of enemies and weapons alike we will see a better version appear. 

Hopefully i have convinced you that this system may not be as bad as once thought Careen. ?

 

11 hours ago, Trichouette said:

I don't even get why you're still trying :D

Raids are what you make them, I have done a lot Rhino LoR before, why?  Just for fun.  A PC team did a lot Chroma raid before.  Its not always about spamming CC.  Taking away Arcane takes away not only from the non-spenders but also from clan and alliance members who do alliance events, who use the plat they make from arcanes to do so.  Adding weapons in there place would not make up for it as you need 10 of each arcane to make a with there being 30 arcanes?  making you need a total of 300 arcanes to complete all sets.  You would need a lot of weapons and armor to match up with that.  I also with arcanes, people want multiple sets, I have 2 sets of graces, I know someone with 3 sets are energizes, if it was weapons and armor, once you got the weapons and armor then the raids would become pointless, unless you ran them for the profitting side.  Matchmaking on raids is also a bad idea, a random invite to a raid is bad enough as it is.

Sorties are indeed easy, i did one of the harder sets, with 3 MR4, took a little longer, but wasn't hard by any means.  With the War Within update you need to have that done to do sorties so you wouldn't be paired with completely new players anymore which makes them even easier.  I see a post about people wanting Endo took out of sorties, a grandmaster founder commented on it that he would hate for that to happen because he ends endo, so the rewards are not bad, they are just not what you want.

I think adding a token system to a game where collect everything is a major part of the game, takes away from the life of the game.  Do the RNG in sorties need a reward?  Of course, I think the system they are putting in place or have put in place(haven't read the last few patch notes) where if you get Endo 2 days in a row is a step in the right direction but need to take it a little farther.  I also think a token system is a step in the wrong direction.

Just because I disagree with your opinion, doesn't mean I don't respect it.  You are throwing out a idea that you think will make the game better, I might disagree with it, but I will never fault you for trying.  I'm just voicing my opinion.  Everyone have different playstyles, different ways of looking at things, and different things they enjoy.  If DE agrees with you (which I don't think they will as they themselves said about a token system but instead decided to remove weapons and nezha from there) then I will agree it and continue playing the game as I always have.

[RevoDinAlt]

On 12/1/2016 at 5:52 AM, LIKE_A_PR3DAT0R said:

my last 4 sortie reward...

To me that's a boast. Since TWW was released I have done sorties every day except three so, it's very easy for me to remember all of my rewards. One riven mod, one lesser focus lens, 2k endo until the "fix" and then 4k endo or 2k endo every day (2k endo today). If I wanted to farm endo there are better ways.

I have seen more people doing sorties who have not done them before which is a double edged sword. 

[Alcatraz]

On 12/1/2016 at 9:21 PM, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

Sorties And A New Direction

Sorties are a good idea but even with TWW changes the rng can get people insanely salty. Mainly because of the time invested into them each day (once a day) only to pull items they don't need or want over and over.

 

The Token System

Although this may not be what DE wants because RNG is useful to keep people going.

But a simple token system would make the Sortie dailies actually worthwhile. That way you guys don't need to spend more time and effort on trying to make it fair for all.

 

☆  Example - All numbers are just for the example ,  if implemented DE would set their own.

-》 First mission rewards : 15 tokens

-》 Second mission rewards : 35 tokens

-》Third mission rewards : 50 tokens

▪ Total - 100 tokens per day

 

( We actually have room on our liset for a console or chuck it on the relay. )

With the lack of RNG , increase prices (on some) and change what you can get.

 

- 》2000 Endo 50 tokens / 4000 Endo 100 tokens?.

- 》Riven Mod Rifle 150 tokens?.

- 》3 Nitain  75 tokens?.

- 》 Reactor 175 tokens?.

- 》Catalyst 175 tokens?.

- 》Forma 100 tokens?.

- 》 Exlius 150 tokens?.

- 》Legendary core ???. Possibly kept as a ultra rare drop from sortie 3 - [Bonus].

 

☆  Possible future? 

- 》Arcanes  common 75 tokens , uncommon 150 tokens ,  rare 200 tokens?.

- 》Kuva 1500 50 tokens / 3000 Kuva 100 tokens?.

- 》Sortie honor emblem 50 tokens?.

- 》Sortie champion sigil 100 tokens?.

 

☆  Possible Names?

¤ Chitin

¤ Honor Mark

¤ Lotus Badge

¤ Indicia

[ Post other possible names below ]

 

You know you want to DE... ?

I keep seeing this post, or you linking it so I am just now reading it. And I don't like it. I realize in the beginning you said it was just examples of how many tokens and all but I see it as you're able to get everything with the system you're offering as an alternative, within 2 days.

Orokin Reactors are worth a little more to be honest, forma is... should be higher as well. Exilus blueprints require 2 forma and argon so it's automatically higher as well. Then you're saying in example to get total of 100t a day, but pricing 2k endo at 50t and 4k at 100t.

As I have said, I realize it's examples but try to make out the entire plan properly of how this system would work, instead of giving examples. Make it perfectly clear. I say this because more often than you know, the ideas are put into the game just the way they are presented.

 

On one dev stream that talked about having too many currencies when speaking of doing a token system. We have credits and platinum, the base currency of the game. Then we have syndicate reputation, and ducats. So they weren't too keen on making a token system for Sorties. Additionally since then they have put in Void traces.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Alcatraz

[Irixa]

+1 for this!! I also think the Fashionframe-loving peeps will appreciate the sigils lol

Please notice us DE-senpai :(