Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Riven mods and primed mods:not enough points and getting stuck with configurations


DLz47
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 12/2/2016 at 10:50 AM, Enno69 said:

Even if said mods don't give us extra points, make at least something like an exilus slot (maybe one that doesn't cost any point), so that we can use at least one utility mod on any given build.

Yeah, I'd like an Exilus + "Stance" style slot as well. Utility slots only (reload speed, velocity, zoom, mutations), but they feed points into the gun instead of taking them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whelp, Soma series isn't that modding friendly with ~5 mandatory mods. If you wan't to have the "perfect" gun vs any specific faction/enemy you'll have to make sacrifices in most cases.

The suggestions for even more points reek of power creep and are not really necessary. Rank up even more mods of even higher rank to squeeze a few  % more damage out of your gun that'll effectively give you 5-10 levels of instant death and the cheese beyond...just nope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Instead of complaining that you can't have every single super-powered mod on an OP/Meta weapon whilst also keeping it modular enough that you can just build it in any way, why don't you stop complaining and just go get a second Soma Prime?

If you want stupidly powerful stuff, you have to put the effort in. The mods use a lot of power because they're STRONG. You might as well argue that all mods be free if you want to add every single powerful mod on whilst still keeping slots free for alternate builds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This just in, Rivens 18 cost drain limits mod variety.

Snark aside, I'm damn sure DE is fully aware of the limitations created by making these mods more expensive. I'd bet they had a long and hard conversation on just how much they wanted to cost these things at. If they just wanted to make the thing expensive, they'd slap a 20 on it and be done, but they went with 18/9 with polarity. That number seems like a number they had to work their way towards.

I fully expect the same experience if and when they get around to Shotguns, Secondarys and Melees. And Melees have stances to grant extra capacity. I find I don't have to forma melee weapons as much as Warframes, primary's and secondaries to get them where I want them. There's wiggle room to make melee rivens more expensive. And if you have the ability to commonly run high end content like sorties, chances are you've got a stance for your melee.

Rivens have potential to make old weapons very powerful, bringing them back into the limelight. The cost of that is that it's something you have to commit to. Like proper high end content, you're gonna have to put in some work.

That aside, using enemy scaling as an example of why this capacity limitation is bad doesn't work very well. The poor scaling is an acknowledged, but messy, time consuming problem. They intend to work on it in due time, but they have a debt to repay on many older parts of the game and new content must be made to preserve the life of the game as well. Gotta keep this in mind if you wanna go deep.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DE wont do this because this will defeat two of the reasons that convinced DE to add in forma to begin with.
Originally DE was against the addition of forma into the game.  They wanted the default polarities to act as a balancing factor between the weapons.
Eventually they decided to put in forma and allow players to polarize their gear but they wanted forma to have 3 things:
-A cost (re-leveling your weapon)
-A drawback (sure you can have more powerful weapons but they become specialized and not able to handle every scenario equally)
-Make people think before just slapping 8 forma into their gear.

Your idea would completely remove the drawback and the part about making people think before formaing.
After all, now I can slap in 8 forma into any of my weapons and switch around the forma at will and put in all of the best mods without thinking about "Should I forma it for mod X or Y?"  It instead becomes: "There's absolutely no reason to not slap in 8 forma and passively level this.  Not like I'm making my weapon specialized or locking myself out of the majority of builds to make a specific one extremely strong....there is absolutely no drawback to it"

So the simple answer is that DE simply wont do this.
DE designed the forma system and mod polarities purposefully to cause situations like the one you are running against.
So its not a problem you're running into.  Its a purposeful limitation of the system that was put in there since day 1 of the forma system.

Further, please stop bringing up "But this is needed for level 200+ enemies!!!!!!" because DE has stated, a few times, that those levels are beyond what the game is intended to be balanced for.
So not really a valid point to try to convince them to change the forma situation...

EDIT:
Also with your idea your essentially asking them to make polarities on mods pointless to the point of asking "Why do mods even have polarities?  I can just change the polarities on my weapons instantly to match any possible mod loadout, so why even have different polarities?"
Which again they put in the polarities as a purposeful limiter.

Edited by Tsukinoki
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

DE wont do this because this will defeat two of the reasons that convinced DE to add in forma to begin with.
Originally DE was against the addition of forma into the game.  They wanted the default polarities to act as a balancing factor between the weapons.
Eventually they decided to put in forma and allow players to polarize their gear but they wanted forma to have 3 things:
-A cost (re-leveling your weapon)
-A drawback (sure you can have more powerful weapons but they become specialized and not able to handle every scenario equally)
-Make people think before just slapping 8 forma into their gear.

Your idea would completely remove the drawback and the part about making people think before formaing.
After all, now I can slap in 8 forma into any of my weapons and switch around the forma at will and put in all of the best mods without thinking about "Should I forma it for mod X or Y?"  It instead becomes: "There's absolutely no reason to not slap in 8 forma and passively level this.  Not like I'm making my weapon specialized or locking myself out of the majority of builds to make a specific one extremely strong....there is absolutely no drawback to it"

So the simple answer is that DE simply wont do this.
DE designed the forma system and mod polarities purposefully to cause situations like the one you are running against.
So its not a problem you're running into.  Its a purposeful limitation of the system that was put in there since day 1 of the forma system.

This is shortsighted thinking that players are now suffering for.

While the exact solution I prefer differs to OP's, this is a problem that players now face.

 

The original Forma system may have been balanced and designed to limit overspecialisation, but there was also less need to overspecialise. Not so much for the enemies we face, but for all the added drain that we have seen included in the game since that initial design stage. Early on, expensive mods like Split Chamber and Serration were few and far between. Polarise for those and the rest was less of a problem.

Warframes lost ability mods, gaining 2 regular slots, and an Exilus slot later. That's three more slots to fill up with no extra capacity, meaning more overall polarised slots to allow proper usage.

New releases of mods of varying expense peppered throughout.

Primed mods add another 2-5 drain on top of their base counterpart, raising them to the biggest expense levels.

Riven mods add another expensive drain and random polarity to boot.

 

You identified yourself that there was a cost designed into the system. Players are not precognitive of the changes to come.

Is it a player's fault if they paid the cost to polarise and relevel, only to get a Riven mod that falls to an unexpected polarity that they cannot account for?

Is it a player's fault if they paid their costs, only to have a new mod released that would fit better in their build, but differs from the currently refined usage? New Warframe augments, added after people have long since polarised their Warframes with no Zenurik in sight (having not needed that polarity since losing Ability Mods)?

 

It's limiting, but more importantly, it's punishing and wasting investments.

 

See my solution - the value of any single Forma is exactly the same as current, but thanks to the concept of polarising the item rather than its slots, you can make the polarities optional (removing unforeseeable cross-polarity penalties with new releases/Riven randomness) and by adding even more Forma if the player chooses, increasing the flexibility (but not upper power limit) of their build options without the need to possess duplicates (and invest extraneous Orokin superchargers, Exilus adapters, Focus lenses or any other unrelated extra).

It would actually motivate more Forma investments. Individual items with more than eight Forma (without having been causalties of necessary 'overwriting') would be completely understandable, and many items would approach that old 'maximum' investment of eight where previously their owners would have been disinclined due to the excessive limitations involved.

More Forma being invested (which are still only buildable once-a-day) means more Platinum purchases of Forma to circumvent the farming/building process. Business case.

Players win, DE wins, no power creep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...