Can we please nerf Mirage + Simulor?

[GhostlightX]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

It proves quite a bit if they were actually trying to play though. 

Which we will never know....

[GhostlightX]

On ‎04‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 3:57 PM, SenariousNex said:

Not a big fan of this setup late-game. Dmg drops off eventually making it useless and mirage dies when a high level enemy just looks at her funny. Take it vs lvl 140 Battalysts in simulacrum and tell me how that goes.

Indeed. Mirage + Simulor is only broken at noobcake difficulty level. Where guess what? A ton of other stuff is also broken.

[(PSN)TheANSER-42]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

Okay so its totally fine for a single player to inconvenience  the whole squad? 

 

Why should the 3 other people in the squad have to leave just because one player doesn't want to play the game properly? 

Properly? there is no "right" way to play war frame. EVERYTHING is subjective. also, no hate on mirage's 95% damage reduction that lasts 45 seconds if you're in the dark. gee, don't complain about a powerful ability and not even mention an even better one on the EXACT SAME FRAME.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, GhostlightX said:

Indeed. Mirage + Simulor is only broken at noobcake difficulty level. Where guess what? A ton of other stuff is also broken.

"Noobcake" levels are the only content worth doing currently. DE destroyed any reason to do endless missions beyond taking hieracon to 2k or Xini to 8 or 12 rounds. Things like Fissure mission are better off being left ASAP and then just restarting another one. 

[(PSN)TheANSER-42]

12 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

old Blade Storm was a lazy option. Watch it now.

And they inconvenience everyone else in the squad. It's not fun when a mission where you are supposed to fight becomes "run around staring at corpses and singularities and doing nothing".

Or ask DE for a kick button so we can kick the Miramulor the very second it rears it's fancy head, or get Rad proc and oneshot then leave to die, then repeat, until it stops moving for good.

You're acting like everyone wants mirage+simulor to end and that everyone is annoyed by it but nor everyone Is. I played a game with a squad and a guy was using the aforementioned combo. one dude started flipping out. hurling insults left and right until the dude just switched to his secondary. both me and my teammate (who I have no connection to. he was just another random) told the good man to play how he wanted ( and help us because we were getting rekt) and he tore through hordes after hoard. we still had enemies, but not enough to overwhelm us. it was a fun match, especially once the whiner left.

[DxAdder]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Your usage of the words Casual and Hardcore are hilarious. It's not about the intensity of the player. I'm MR22. I've got well over a thousand hours in this game, and run sorties regularly and have killed the Stalker hundreds of times. I don't think that makes someone hardcore, others might. You'd have to elaborate on your definition of hardcore. I can say I refuse to use Mirage+Simulor combo because it's broken. I main Ash with a Teleport build...because Bladestorm was a broken meta.

It's about the fact that players gravitate towards the fastest method of killing that requires zero skill to either complete the objectives faster in a zerg-style rng game or to feel strong because they have no skill but still get the most kills by using a broken meta. This is fine for them regardless of the reason they do it...until it affects their teammates' quality of life. 

You like Mirage+Simulor to feel powerful and finish faster with the way it is now? Cool. Play solo. You want to be on teams, then the Simulor needs to be rebalanced. Paraphrasing a very smart player from another thread a while back, "Having a meta isn't an issue, unless that meta makes the next best thing useless by comparison".

Causal players = Players that don't have a frames and weapons maxed out with forma and the best or Prime mods maxed.

Hardcore = Players that have the frames/Weapons maxed out for DPS and efficiency with forma and the best Mods (primed or otherwise) that do missions

in the fastest time possible wit the least effort.

 

 

[Nazrethim]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)TheANSER-42 said:

You're acting like everyone wants mirage+simulor to end and that everyone is annoyed by it but nor everyone Is. I played a game with a squad and a guy was using the aforementioned combo. one dude started flipping out. hurling insults left and right until the dude just switched to his secondary. both me and my teammate (who I have no connection to. he was just another random) told the good man to play how he wanted ( and help us because we were getting rekt) and he tore through hordes after hoard. we still had enemies, but not enough to overwhelm us. it was a fun match, especially once the whiner left.

 I dislike Miramulor not for how powerful it is, but for how lazy it is. Add a few extra layers of work, like actually requiring good aim, proper ammo management and mirage clone orbs not fusing and I'm sold.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

8 minutes ago, DxAdder said:

Causal players = Players that don't have a frames and weapons maxed out with forma and the best or Prime mods maxed.

Hardcore = Players that have the frames/Weapons maxed out for DPS and efficiency with forma and the best Mods (primed or otherwise) that do missions

in the fastest time possible wit the least effort.

All of my frames and weapons are multi-forma'd. I use the best mods possible for particular play styles. I suppose in many cases you can say I'm hardcore with those requirements. 

Using Mirage+Simulor does not necessarily meet that requirement. With a moderately modded Mirage, and a moderately modded Synoid Simulor you can wipe the map before the "hardcore" players can get off a shot unless they are Ember or possibly Equinox unless you're in level 50+ content where the damage starts to fall off against the more heavily armored enemies.

[(PSN)TheANSER-42]

12 hours ago, Midrib said:

Equinox requires you to build up maim, Ember doesn't get past level 40, banshee has stupid high energy cost and is stationary but its probably the only example I agree with you on, and saryn which requires 100 times the brain power that is required to operate a mirage simulor.

1 out of the 4 examples you gave is somewhat valid, and mirage+simulor can easily kill even enemies that are level 100+.

You are welcome to join this thread but valid responses would be appreciated.

Personally. I like to bring up the banshee atterax combo. sonar+silence+naramon+atterax=death

Also Duration-range-Efficiency Built Frost. Freeze Everything With Avalanche With Ease. 

Trinity thathe can ev then blessing. repeat as necessary. 

These combos should make up for my predecessor's lack of good examples.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

7 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

 I dislike Miramulor not for how powerful it is, but for how lazy it is. Add a few extra layers of work, like actually requiring good aim, proper ammo management and mirage clone orbs not fusing and I'm sold.

^

That's why my suggestion is usually just to drastically reduce the explosion radius. It will fix most of those issues. I never really cared how much damage it actually does, it's that it does it with no effort against the whole room at once. If they tighten up the blast radius they'll actually require effort to get things done since it'll require more movement and aiming, while still doing good damage.

[(PSN)TheANSER-42]

Just now, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

^

That's why my suggestion is usually just to drastically reduce the explosion radius. It will fix most of those issues. I never really cared how much damage it actually does, it's that it does it with no effort against the whole room at once. If they tighten up the blast radius they'll actually require effort to get things done since it'll require more movement and aiming, while still doing good damage.

But then the weapon will only be usable with mirage. have a little pity for DE.  they walk a fine line here.

[i.chit.you.not]

let's nerf everything while we are at this, time to quit and play something else

- i am sick of people bring paris prime to defend and trying to clear lvl w/ their bow, if you want to take 60 minutes for a defend game, do it solo,

the problem with people joining pug and expect other people to have the frame/playstyle that they can agree with, if you want that form your own group or make invite only

Edited December 5, 2016 by g4yb4ll

[(PSN)TheANSER-42]

17 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

 I dislike Miramulor not for how powerful it is, but for how lazy it is. Add a few extra layers of work, like actually requiring good aim, proper ammo management and mirage clone orbs not fusing and I'm sold.

Or just make it so that one trigger pull=the damage of two normal shots

[Gorila_Azul]

11 hours ago, Tuxie said:

Because we can play the game however we want, we're not using glitches or exploits and we're not the ones demanding other players to play the way we want them to?

No, you are not demanding other players to play the way you want. You are simply forcing other players to not play.

The "everyone has their own style" argument really doesn't apply here because with the Mirage + Simulor combo, only the Mirage gets to play in their style.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Just now, (PS4)TheANSER-42 said:

But then the weapon will only be usable with mirage. have a little pity for DE.  they walk a fine line here.

Lol

It'll be good for everyone still. It'll just be boosted by Mirage's ability..which is exactly what the ability is supposed to do. The damage isn't an issue with the weapon, only how many people it hits.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

I knew it wouldn't take long for the kids to get in here and throw around the "Nerf Mentality" card lol 

 

How about you listen to my argument rather than just focusing on that word. 

QFT.  I accept the current Mirage-Meta-SimSpam and laugh at it.  BUT I DO LAUGH AT IT.

It is such an outlier in terms of damage and AoE that any objective analysis shows it is way out of balance and requires no skill.

A modest reduction in AoE/Damage (5-10%) would bring it in balance with other top-tier builds...the knee-jerk "Nerf" responses not withstanding.

[Ailissa]

1 hour ago, DxAdder said:

Causal players = Players that don't have a frames and weapons maxed out with forma and the best or Prime mods maxed.

Hardcore = Players that have the frames/Weapons maxed out for DPS and efficiency with forma and the best Mods (primed or otherwise) that do missions

in the fastest time possible wit the least effort.

 

 

So wrong, so very wrong.

 

Casual players are just players that don't have the time to play constantly. Lack of time does not mean they don't have what they need. I'm as casual as they come but my gear is all maxed out with catalysts, forma and mods (now i've finished maxing the ones I needed).

 

Hardcore players are those that dedicate a lot more time to their chosen game.

 

For some reason people seem to mix up casual and bad players, they are not the same thing.

[WhyNotBro]

27 minutes ago, Gorila_Azul said:

No, you are not demanding other players to play the way you want

Isn't this topic doing the same?

[-SkyCleaver-]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

I am sick of getting into missions with Mirage that just spam the Simulor. It sucks every bit of fun that the game can provide. Especially if its a defense mission where there is very little room to do much. I have no choice but to stand around and basically do nothing as the Mirage lazily shoots the Simulor and kills everything. Especially if you are using a Warframe like Inaros, Saryn or Atlas which requires alot of moving around and your enemies staying alive for you to be able to perform your abilities. 

 

 

I am all for making the most of your Warframe and what it can do, but this interupts OTHER peoples enjoyment of the game. 

 

Its just like Mesa before she was nerfed. 

Simular was op...they nerfed it. Simular can normally always land "headshots" but now the vortexes dont anymore. Thats literally nerfed 1/3 of its dmg. 

And mirage is a glass cannon...she can make any wep nuke an entire room. 

[(PSN)Phoenixs_Ashes17]

Mirage plus Simulor only thing that can get more kills than my Emebers world on fire.

 

Not just a little more either.

Usually I soak up so many kills that every one else has 40 to 80 to my 600 or 1000, last time I played along side a Mirage with a Simulor in a Survival that person got 1200 or more and I only got 500. Of course the other person was a Nekros spamming that extra loot power. LoL he must have been in affinity, credit heaven.

[CaptainEras]

1 hour ago, GhostlightX said:

Which we will never know....

You should !  . . .experience in different missions will tell you that no matter what the mix of rigs are if all players are going for it, and of reasonable strength, all will get a reasonable score.

If 3 players are slacking or have inferior weapons and one has a rig way above them the outcome is obvious, particularly when in a high ranking mission like 35+ opposition growing to over 60.

[KittyDarkling]

I was gonna write a nice post validating both sides of the argument but it got deleted by my cat... In the end something does need to be done about the Simular/marrage problem because it is a problem. It doesn't need to become useless, or even trash teir but it needs to be removed from the absolute top. I'm really sorry too those who find it fun and feel I'm taking sides but I'm just to disheartened to rewrite everything. I will put it very simply that you both need to instead of defending your ideals so much find a compromise that works for both of you.

-Don't ruin marrage

-Don't ruin simulor

-Clones orbs really don't need to merge with eachother

-One players fun shouldn't come at the cost of the rest of the team's choice in the matter, balance does exist in PvE

And again Please both sides of this argument, try to actually be open minded of the other side.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

3 hours ago, DrBorris said:

It is threads like these that destroy any chances of Damage 3.0. 

That doesn't even make sense.

[45neo]

15 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

This would require a simple tweak: make mirage clones no longer produce singularities or blasts.

or make the mirage clones singularities not stack with each other.

[45neo]

5 minutes ago, KittyDarkling said:

 

-Clones orbs really don't need to merge with eachother

 

Yup that is exactly what needs to happen