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Pre-Specters of the Rail PC Players are still waiting for their stolen-opportunity Archwing/ArchWeapon Slot compensation.


TheLexiConArtist
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32 minutes ago, Ins. said:

It sounds very entitled of you to ask for compensation, when the players that got free slots had to go through horrible grind, while you just have to click a few times or trade in order to get the parts you want.

The ''entitlement'' argument is way too overused. It's not ''entitlement'' to want to have the same opportunities that the others, you know.

Though I would be extremely surprised if DE just went and gave all those slots... An event where that defense would be brought to life again, with the same drop table but instead of actual archwing gear parts you would get parts and blueprints that will allow you to build slots would be much more interesting option.

Console players got advanced warning? Well, PC players would make do with an event that would last the same amount of time and will give them an opportunity to earn those slots they missed. Might even hard cap those slots by the amount of what OP is proposing minus what free slots we get.

Or even put mission like that without any time restrictions. On every platform. So people who just join would have the same option as people who were active then to ''grind'' the slots. Again, only as many slots as there were archwings and archweapons at the time all those slots were free of charge.

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16 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

The ''entitlement'' argument is way too overused. It's not ''entitlement'' to want to have the same opportunities that the others, you know.

Though I would be extremely surprised if DE just went and gave all those slots... An event where that defense would be brought to life again, with the same drop table but instead of actual archwing gear parts you would get parts and blueprints that will allow you to build slots would be much more interesting option.

Console players got advanced warning? Well, PC players would make do with an event that would last the same amount of time and will give them an opportunity to earn those slots they missed. Might even hard cap those slots by the amount of what OP is proposing minus what free slots we get.

Or even put mission like that without any time restrictions. On every platform. So people who just join would have the same option as people who were active then to ''grind'' the slots. Again, only as many slots as there were archwings and archweapons at the time all those slots were free of charge.

Sorry but it does sound like entitlement to me. The people that farmed the parts pre-SotR didn't have the opportunity to get them as easy as it is now, and the people that waited until after SotR don't have the opportunity to get free slots. It evens out, there has to be some sort of investment in getting the parts, be that plat spent on slots or time spent on grinding.

It's much easier to get the parts now, so why not use the time people would have wasted on grinding the parts and farm some plat. It's so easy to get plat nowadays, much easier (or at least much less time-consuming) than it was to get the archwing parts from missions.

 

Making an event or whatever just to reward a few slots seems like a lot of hassle to me honestly. Things have changed, as they always have in this game. This is the same as people asking for compensation for forma'ing a warframe that then gets nerf'ed. It's just silly honestly.

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1 minute ago, Ins. said:

The people that farmed the parts pre-SotR didn't have the opportunity to get them as easy as it is now, and the people that waited until after SotR don't have the opportunity to get free slots. It evens out,

Sorry, but no. Having to pay for something and having to play for something does not, in fact, even up in the slightest.

At least not for people who dislike the new system. Those who were willing to pay for those things, did so. Those who are willing to pay, do so now.

But those who would play for those things if they had an advanced warning? Those people you may dislike for one reason or another, but they are entitled to ask for equal opportunity.

You seem to operate only on the assumption that entitlement is a bad thing. But this, for example

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement

Contains only third meaning as somewhat negative. And that talks about privileges, while what OP is advocating is exactly the opposite. He wants equal rights, not privileges, after all.

And as for

4 minutes ago, Ins. said:

Making an event or whatever just to reward a few slots seems like a lot of hassle to me honestly. Things have changed, as they always have in this game. This is the same as people asking for compensation for forma'ing a warframe that then gets nerf'ed. It's just silly honestly.

No, it's no hassle at all.

All you need to make that mission is already in game. There was such a mission for a long time, after all.

All DE would need to add - archwing defense node with the same drop table but with duplicate untradable parts and blueprints in it. With the same building requirements as the things they are for. So, for example, there would be an ''Itzal Slot Blueprint'' with ''Itzal Slot Harness'' and so on. That's literally it. Claiming the built thing from the foundry would add a dedicated ''Itzal Slot''. Done.

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1 hour ago, Ins. said:

No indication was indeed made and I agree that DE should try to better communicate changes.

          You say you had no motivation to get them due to the horrible grind, now your motivation has changed because of the simplicity of acquisition. It sounds very entitled of you to ask for compensation, when the players that got free slots had to go through horrible grind, while you just have to click a few times or trade in order to get the parts you want.

 

  • DE never said the free slots was intended, and it was expected of them to implement payed slots as soon as they update archwing again.

I wonder if, in theory, the OP agree to being allowed the free slots on the condition that he was somehow prevented from building archwings for a pre-determined amount of in-game hours.

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25 minutes ago, Helljack84 said:

It's a desperate attempt to squeeze some cash out of a horribly failed system.

If they were really of that mindset, they could put cash barriers on so many other things. I think this is just one of those things that was a small oversight for so long, and when it got fixed, it got overlooked.

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1 hour ago, Ins. said:
  • People didn't want to grind yet they did. In order to get the parts they needed for certain archwing weapons, grinding and crafting those weapons came with free slots.

          It is infinitely simpler to get said parts now, so you have to pay for slots. Weapon and warframe slots being a system implemented since the beginning of warframe, it was obvious from the implementation of archwing that slots would someday come for archwing gear.

  • No indication was indeed made and I agree that DE should try to better communicate changes.

          You say you had no motivation to get them due to the horrible grind, now your motivation has changed because of the simplicity of acquisition. It sounds very entitled of you to ask for compensation, when the players that got free slots had to go through horrible grind, while you just have to click a few times or trade in order to get the parts you want.

  • DE never said the free slots was intended, and it was expected of them to implement payed slots as soon as they update archwing again.

Acquisition of the parts is irrelevant. Cost of the slots is irrelevant - sure it's "not much", but that's not the point.

The point is that customers deserve equal treatment, when it comes to the premium currency aspects of the game.

Motivation - again, largely irrelevant. I rationed my playtime out based on the information available to me, and have been indirectly charged platinum as a result, which is not excusable.

If you remove something because it wasn't good enough to play, you cannot simply 'expect' that players have been spending significant time there. You cannot blame them for not spending time there, which some people nonsensically against this compensation appear to be doing.

Not stating that something being free is intended or unintended implicitly suggests that it will remain as it is until future notice. Until notice. Cosmetic space is free. Resource space is free. Prime part space is free. We don't expect any of these to change either, and if they will be, we damn well expect to know about it before it happens.

Archwing equipment is no different.

1 hour ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

No misrepresentation. This is exactly the same. You don't play archwing exhaustively -- you don't get a slot.

This is not a argument of your opinion, just try to get it. Yes, i don't like to pay for something too. No matter what. This is unfair nobody give me something for free. (notice this is exactly what you are trying to say).

Now, let's take a look at people who got a gift.

1. This is actual Archwing players. Oh, i mean exhaustevely Archwing players, this is matter =)

2. Console players.

1.  You stand at point you deserve even more, since now you can get this parts from a syndicate. Don't you think you ask too much?

2. As about consoles, they are always in a strange position. There is many bugs, many fixes and sometimes this advantage, sometimes not (as a ducats from Kuva farm, i guess PS and XBOX will not have it). You just can't stand at this point.

 

So, try to understood. Nobody at PC know about changes. Nobody never have mention "slots will be free forever". This is your choice and your fault. You think "Archwing gear will always be there" and was wrong. Next time you be lucky and game became less grindy while you do nothing. Actually it is already so. Now you don't need to grind Arch mission to get em.

Your point "nobody says to me what will be in future, so give me free slots" just have no sence.

Why do people seem to think that the ability to get Archwing parts by not even playing Archwing missions at all is somehow a Divine gift that equates to an arbitrary value of cash money?

Acquisition of the parts is irrelevant. Don't move the goalposts.

It's not "unfair nobody gives me something for free", that is not what I'm saying. It is unfair to give some people the opportunity to get things for free while stealing that opportunity from the rest by virtue of lacking notice.

If you suddenly had to pay 40 platinum per Warframe slot with no warning, but others could continue buying them for 20 platinum until an unspecified point in the future, you should not accept that. Those others literally double their gains for the same investment. Same thing, only it's a cost of ZERO into a cost of 12. Which is even more than 200% cost disparity between the haves and the have-nots. Zero goes infinitely into 12. It's not acceptable.

 

9 minutes ago, chaotea said:

I wonder if, in theory, the OP agree to being allowed the free slots on the condition that he was somehow prevented from building archwings for a pre-determined amount of in-game hours.

As it happens, mentioning the 'wings themselves, I did buy a slot for the Amesha. Because I had a fair number of archwing slots (having had all four built aside, the empty slot minimum is four anyway). Weapons, however...

I play enough that this arbitrary 'restriction' would be no issue. Heck, I have my errant three weapons built as it stands - I just can't claim them because I was inadequately provided with space in which to put them.

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1 hour ago, EDYinnit said:

I play enough that this arbitrary 'restriction' would be no issue. Heck, I have my errant three weapons built as it stands - I just can't claim them because I was inadequately provided with space in which to put them.

I suppose if they did implement the extra slots, it would have to be only to those who where playing, and had got their archwings. Then again, the same arguments youve made could be made for those who didnt get the archwing quest completed.

TBH, just from a logistical perspective i dont see it happening.

Also, the whole thing sounds alot like the 'Excalibur Prime' arguments for people saying that they would have bought it if they knew it was never going to come out in game.

At the end of the day, the issue may be somewhat unfair to other people, but the solutions are generally unfair to other people.

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10 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

This is still NOT excusable. PC players from the time should be, at the very least, granted compensatory Archweapon slots so that their minimum is 15 before having to buy any more - the number of pre-existing weapon options.

This should be what they do on both PC and Console, just give everyone 15 slots.  It's the fair thing to do, though to be honest, I don't really care either way since I don't play AW.

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On 05/12/2016 at 5:55 PM, chaotea said:

I suppose if they did implement the extra slots, it would have to be only to those who where playing, and had got their archwings. Then again, the same arguments youve made could be made for those who didnt get the archwing quest completed.

TBH, just from a logistical perspective i dont see it happening.

Also, the whole thing sounds alot like the 'Excalibur Prime' arguments for people saying that they would have bought it if they knew it was never going to come out in game.

At the end of the day, the issue may be somewhat unfair to other people, but the solutions are generally unfair to other people.

Well, ExcaliPri was a Founder's Pack. In fact, I'm pretty sure that it was made abundantly clear that due to the nature of the founder packs (and the compensation for what was pulling the company out of the hole with a hefty donation), those items would never be available again, bar nothing.

 

 Compare the Closed/Opening Beta Vandal weapons, for a better analogy - those were limited time with unclear communication on the part of DE as to the limitation (and even availability). Some people who were playing at the time have said they simply didn't know the Open Beta week had a one-credit gift in the market, so they're lacking what they really should have from a time-of-play event's gift. Not unlike the complete opacity with which this change was pushed in under the radar meaning we PC players couldn't build their gear and claim their free slots.

And now, much later, DE are considering (and asking the players from that time) whether they should give players the opportunity to get those weapons. Consensus is positive.

On 05/12/2016 at 6:42 PM, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

This should be what they do on both PC and Console, just give everyone 15 slots.  It's the fair thing to do, though to be honest, I don't really care either way since I don't play AW.

The longer it's gone unaddressed, the more of a pain it is to apply a fix.

Immediately afterwards, they could have temporarily reverted the change on PC to allow for that missing notice period, letting PC and console players both have their "get it before it's gone" warning.

Shortly afterwards, they could have run a simple script to increase Archweapon slots to a minimum, refunding / reapplying slot purchases since the change.

 

The more time they try to ignore this issue (the last thread got a Popularity banner, which is pretty rare for an arbitrary Feedback post), the more they have to account for when fixing it. More purchases have to be worked out. Accounting for platinum-bought archwings and archweapons that come with the slot, and slot purchases themselves. Figuring out which players were harmed by the change by whatever metric.

Even if they just give it to everyone, there's still that problem of adding or refunding the extraneous slots bought / acquired from item purchases after the fact. Which really shouldn't be that bad, assuming they keep a proper database of purchase histories and such. Shouldn't be too hard to script through... but you know some would want refunds over slot extensions, since we have no idea how often there will be new archwing gear to fill the slots with.

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6 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

And now, much later, DE are considering (and asking the players from that time) whether they should give players the opportunity to get those weapons. Consensus is positive.

Yea, i just cant see it transitioning well into slots. We might be given an opportunity to earn free slots, which i have less of an issue with than being given free slots, but i still think that the cost of slots is so low it wouldn't really bother me anyway.

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14 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Yea, i just cant see it transitioning well into slots. We might be given an opportunity to earn free slots, which i have less of an issue with than being given free slots, but i still think that the cost of slots is so low it wouldn't really bother me anyway.

The cost isn't high, true. It's the principle of the matter more than anything. It's not okay to do what they did in making an unannounced premium-currency change especially when it also affects certain users differently by no fault of their own, it's not okay to try to sweep it under the proverbial rug, and if we allow it to be forgotten without being appropriately addressed, then something like it might happen again in the future with a potentially even more detrimental effect on us.

And it's okay for me to keep pushing the issue until it's fixed because I'm not being abusive or even slanderous, so by all rights I shouldn't be banned unless doing so was with malicious intent.

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2 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

And it's okay for me to keep pushing the issue until it's fixed because I'm not being abusive or even slanderous, so by all rights I shouldn't be banned unless doing so was with malicious intent.

I dont think its likely to get you banned, more likely your post would get locked if it generates to much abusive chatter, even if it wasnt you. Though DE are moving more to try to clean up such posts than outright locking these days.

Also, why are we whispering?

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On 5.12.2016 at 11:19 AM, chaotea said:

Devs dont ban without reason. They tend to ban if people breach the terms of service that we all agree too in order to play. And plenty of people complain on the forums anyway. 'Locking' isnt the devs trying to hide negativity, they would just delete the treads.

 

It also wasnt unfair in any way. The Devs said: 'This was a mistake, were changing it. However if you've already earned this stuff we wont punish you for it.' Its the same with the change to Steel charge. If you leveled it past the max they reduced it to, you got a legendary core. If you didnt level it you didnt get the core. Its not DE punishing those who didnt put the work in at the time, but rewarding those that did.

Yeah, this "devs don't ban without a reason" reminds me of a topic I saw recently about someone banned for negative plat value on his account.

Funny thing is, it was someone from DE who removed a certain amount of plat from his account because he got it from a clanmate who turned out to be "black market reseller".

So basically, dude got banned because he got plat from someone. Same thing can happen anytime you trade with someone. You sell a prime part and you can get banned sometime soon.

Seems fair, right?

 

As for the Archwing...

SoTR changes made Archwing even worse (flight model is just terrible, no more sharp turns, enjoy crashing into every wall in tight corridors) and requiring slots for Archwings and weapons is just icing on the S#&$ cake.

Seeing as Archwing is not exactly favored by the playerbase. Some even despise it and I can uderstand why, it feels completely disconnected from core game and attempts to incorporate it have been mostly unsuccesful, as shown by Uranus missions (galore of broken spawns, wierd camera shakes, it's slow and boring).

So instead of trying to improve it and convince players that it's worth their time, the devs decide to introduce limited slots. As an undocumented change at first, I might add.

 

First off, if they were going to implement something like this, they should warn players some time before the update.But of course they did not.

Second, the fact that it was undocumented. Stuff like this happened before, so I'll not say that it's surely a mistake or if there was some malicious intent to it.

Because of that, there should be some sort of compensation. But I guess that it didn't happen yet because most people ingnore Archwing, so it's not as loud as say, TVW case.

 

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4 hours ago, Siekier said:

Yeah, this "devs don't ban without a reason" reminds me of a topic I saw recently about someone banned for negative plat value on his account.

Funny thing is, it was someone from DE who removed a certain amount of plat from his account because he got it from a clanmate who turned out to be "black market reseller".

So basically, dude got banned because he got plat from someone. Same thing can happen anytime you trade with someone. You sell a prime part and you can get banned sometime soon.

Seems fair, right?

Saw one of these a while ago, but i believe that while he claimed total innocence, the negative plat had simply drawn attention the the fact that he had been using multiple accounts to get cheap discount platinum's. Of course, the OP saw nothing wrong with this, and assumed that it was just the negative plat thing.

 

4 hours ago, Siekier said:

As for the Archwing...

SoTR changes made Archwing even worse (flight model is just terrible, no more sharp turns, enjoy crashing into every wall in tight corridors) and requiring slots for Archwings and weapons is just icing on the S#&$ cake.

In your opinion. I found Archwing unplayable as it was just a worse version of regular gameplay. Now it feels like its own mode (in my opinion).

 

4 hours ago, Siekier said:

Seeing as Archwing is not exactly favored by the playerbase. Some even despise it and I can uderstand why, it feels completely disconnected from core game and attempts to incorporate it have been mostly unsuccesful, as shown by Uranus missions (galore of broken spawns, wierd camera shakes, it's slow and boring).

So instead of trying to improve it and convince players that it's worth their time, the devs decide to introduce limited slots. As an undocumented change at first, I might add.

As someone who has a job in the creative industry, let me say that its unbelievably easy to do something, forget to write down that you did it, and then forget to include it in the change notes. I doubt they did this with malicious intent. What would they gain from it?

 

4 hours ago, Siekier said:

First off, if they were going to implement something like this, they should warn players some time before the update.But of course they did not.

Second, the fact that it was undocumented. Stuff like this happened before, so I'll not say that it's surely a mistake or if there was some malicious intent to it.

Because of that, there should be some sort of compensation. But I guess that it didn't happen yet because most people ingnore Archwing, so it's not as loud as say, TVW case.

I don't think anyone deserves any compensation. Lets be honest, Devs make changes to their games all the time, especially when it comes to economy. While people complain that DE didn't mention the change before hand, they only feel this way because of how unbelievably transparent DE is about the development of their game.

The way i see it, as someone who has bought every archwing & archwing weapon with plat (and thus has paid for every slot indirectly and not received any for free), DE owes nothing back, and if some players got away with free slots?, i see that as their reward for playing a gamemode that wasnt that great at the time.

 

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28 minutes ago, chaotea said:

As someone who has a job in the creative industry, let me say that its unbelievably easy to do something, forget to write down that you did it, and then forget to include it in the change notes. I doubt they did this with malicious intent. What would they gain from it?

 

I don't think anyone deserves any compensation. Lets be honest, Devs make changes to their games all the time, especially when it comes to economy. While people complain that DE didn't mention the change before hand, they only feel this way because of how unbelievably transparent DE is about the development of their game.

The way i see it, as someone who has bought every archwing & archwing weapon with plat (and thus has paid for every slot indirectly and not received any for free), DE owes nothing back, and if some players got away with free slots?, i see that as their reward for playing a gamemode that wasnt that great at the time.

I don't necessarily believe the change was maliciously intended, but I do believe that even as a mistake, it should be properly acknowledged - not just given a literal passing mention of "Surprise!" in a casual stream (Prime Time) for its first note of existing. That's the bigger picture. Admit the mistake and take the loss - as a measure of public relations. Is it worth gouging that ~66 platinum or less per person for these missing slots, to dissuade those players from considering further purchases? I know I'm disgusted enough by this that not even a 75% discount on my login has been enough to make me buy more; I'm just coasting on what was left from previous purchases while I will need it for extra Warframe and regular Weapon slots for which it was fair to charge me.

 

Of course compensation is deserved - it generated premium currency value differences based on the warning that PC players lacked but Consoles enjoyed. Any change relating to cash values should always be given advance notice. That's not just a change to the internal economy - which is fair game - regardless the fact we can trade for other players' platinum, the fact of the matter is that it is still Warframe's cash money equivalent, which means that console players effectively have unpaid-for platinum we did not have fair chance to acquire.

 

Would you consider it fair if console players started with 200 platinum on account creation but PC players still start with only 50, all else (prices etc) being equal?

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15 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Saw one of these a while ago, but i believe that while he claimed total innocence, the negative plat had simply drawn attention the the fact that he had been using multiple accounts to get cheap discount platinum's. Of course, the OP saw nothing wrong with this, and assumed that it was just the negative plat thing.

Maybe you mean a different thread, because I haven't seen anything about "using multiple accounts to get cheap discount platinum" you're talking about.

15 minutes ago, chaotea said:

In your opinion. I found Archwing unplayable as it was just a worse version of regular gameplay. Now it feels like its own mode (in my opinion).

Yes, it is my opinion. The thing is, from what I've seen many other players share it. I've seen a lot of people saying that they quit alerts immediately when they find out it's Archwing (since it's not specified on star chart). I also remember seeing other players' reaction when they found out there is a Archwing section in TWW - they weren't exactly happy about it.

You enjoy Archwing after changes? Good for you, glad you're having fun.

29 minutes ago, chaotea said:

I don't think anyone deserves any compensation. Lets be honest, Devs make changes to their games all the time, especially when it comes to economy. While people complain that DE didn't mention the change before hand, they only feel this way because of how unbelievably transparent DE is about the development of their game.

I never said I'm sure it was some malicious move on their part. Mistakes happen, sure.

Transparency is to be expected. Reason why people complain is uncertainty. When there's an unlisted change, we don't know if it's a bug or if it's intended. Trouble begins when we have to wait a long time for clarification. That's why to some people it feels strange, to say the least, and why some people have suspicions that the devs might try to sneak some changes in without players noticing.

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i cant believe i read what i read. if you didnt farm any of the equipment it was the same as having no slots. you want them to give you something you didnt even have? that makes absolutely no sense. i had everything up to the point they added archwing/weapons slots and still had to buy slots to fit the new stuff so.....

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16 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

Would you consider it fair if console players started with 200 platinum on account creation but PC players still start with only 50, all else (prices etc) being equal?

I wouldn't consider that fair no, but that because its not. It also is a terrible comparison.

Im getting the feeling that while im happy to discuss the point and see both sides of the argument, you'll only be happy when you get blood. Your also massively hypocritical, as you constantly go on about 'being fair', yet non of your 'solutions' are fair to everyone. Mostly it comes down to this: You feel you've, on some personal level, been hard done by. So you're crying out for compensation in a way that makes you feel better, but are entirely and willfully ignorant of how such a 'solution' will effect other players.

Yes, DE should have said something. No, i dont think it was some underhanded tactic to get plat from us. Yes, DE should be aware of not repeating such action in the future. No, no one is entitled to anything, especially if they claim that they didnt farm archwing parts because it wasnt interesting, and now feel hard done by because they're missing out on something they've got no interest in.

And finally, Yes, i should know better by now that threads like this arnt created for creative discussion or feedback, but for people to whine about personal grievances by framing them as general problems.

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6 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you want them to give you something you didnt even have? that makes absolutely no sense.

You've missread him here.

He wants them to give him slots for a gamemode hes not interested in playing......

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Just now, chaotea said:

You've missread him here.

He wants them to give him slots for a gamemode hes not interested in playing......

believe me i didnt. we didnt have those slots. making those archwings and weapons was equivalent to buying them from the market for plat. they came with the slot for them we all had 0 slots for archwing.

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4 minutes ago, chaotea said:

I wouldn't consider that fair no, but that because its not. It also is a terrible comparison.

Im getting the feeling that while im happy to discuss the point and see both sides of the argument, you'll only be happy when you get blood. Your also massively hypocritical, as you constantly go on about 'being fair', yet non of your 'solutions' are fair to everyone. Mostly it comes down to this: You feel you've, on some personal level, been hard done by. So you're crying out for compensation in a way that makes you feel better, but are entirely and willfully ignorant of how such a 'solution' will effect other players.

Yes, DE should have said something. No, i dont think it was some underhanded tactic to get plat from us. Yes, DE should be aware of not repeating such action in the future. No, no one is entitled to anything, especially if they claim that they didnt farm archwing parts because it wasnt interesting, and now feel hard done by because they're missing out on something they've got no interest in.

And finally, Yes, i should know better by now that threads like this arnt created for creative discussion or feedback, but for people to whine about personal grievances by framing them as general problems.

i laughed when i read this because everything you said here is true.

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16 hours ago, Siekier said:

Maybe you mean a different thread, because I haven't seen anything about "using multiple accounts to get cheap discount platinum" you're talking about.

Thats why i said 'one of these' as apposed to 'that tread'. It was a similar one. All im saying is that at the end of the day, its not benefiting DE to ban legitimate players from their game.

16 hours ago, Siekier said:

Yes, it is my opinion. The thing is, from what I've seen many other players share it. I've seen a lot of people saying that they quit alerts immediately when they find out it's Archwing (since it's not specified on star chart). I also remember seeing other players' reaction when they found out there is a Archwing section in TWW - they weren't exactly happy about it.

You enjoy Archwing after changes? Good for you, glad you're having fun.

We hang around in different circles, as ive found more people who like the archwing changes over the old one. Equally, most of these people loved the archwing to ground transitions.

You dont enjoy Archwing after changes? Thats a shame, hope it gets better for you.

16 hours ago, Siekier said:

I never said I'm sure it was some malicious move on their part. Mistakes happen, sure.

Transparency is to be expected. Reason why people complain is uncertainty. When there's an unlisted change, we don't know if it's a bug or if it's intended. Trouble begins when we have to wait a long time for clarification. That's why to some people it feels strange, to say the least, and why some people have suspicions that the devs might try to sneak some changes in without players noticing.

I just dont think that we have some automatic right to know how the game is changing. Even as a user, or a consumer. That DE are usually so clear on what they change is a great thing, but i think that should be kept in mind when something like this happens, and not all jump on the paranoia train (not you, you seem quite clear headed compared to some in the topic).

I say this as someone who has spent alot of money in the game.

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10 minutes ago, chaotea said:

I wouldn't consider that fair no, but that because its not. It also is a terrible comparison.

Im getting the feeling that while im happy to discuss the point and see both sides of the argument, you'll only be happy when you get blood. Your also massively hypocritical, as you constantly go on about 'being fair', yet non of your 'solutions' are fair to everyone. Mostly it comes down to this: You feel you've, on some personal level, been hard done by. So you're crying out for compensation in a way that makes you feel better, but are entirely and willfully ignorant of how such a 'solution' will effect other players.

Yes, DE should have said something. No, i dont think it was some underhanded tactic to get plat from us. Yes, DE should be aware of not repeating such action in the future. No, no one is entitled to anything, especially if they claim that they didnt farm archwing parts because it wasnt interesting, and now feel hard done by because they're missing out on something they've got no interest in.

And finally, Yes, i should know better by now that threads like this arnt created for creative discussion or feedback, but for people to whine about personal grievances by framing them as general problems.

It's not a terrible comparison. Simply by virtue of which platform they were on, the opportunities related to premium currency differ. Perfectly comparable.

You have missed the point by a mile, and are completely misinterpreting everything I say in a manner that suits.

 

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Removing a gamemode because it was considered unappealing is not necessarily the sole reason I (or any other affected person) did not play it, but another factor that weighs the reasonable expectations away from a player generally having gone to the trouble of exhausting the drops from it.

Who exactly is my solution unfair to?

People who farmed for slots with or without notice still have their items and slots just the same, and with any duplicates they held, keep those excess slots.

People who were notified of the change (console players) had their fair chance to go through the process above and claim their gear for free slots.

People who did not have notice of the change but have since paid for slots would have those paid-for slots in addition to the 'minimum' from pre-existing gear, or perhaps a refund offered.

People who did not have notice of the change get compensated for the lack of equal opportunity by allowing them to gain their slots.

 

Arguably, the fairest solution is to once again abolish slots for Archwing gear and refund all purchases; but then you have people who purposefully built excess duplicate items while they could having spent resources, foundry time and credits that no longer benefits them. Arguably, that's still fair, since intentional duplicates were just exploiting the grandfather clause.

But that isn't likely. The next-best thing is to just give the fair opportunity to those who didn't get the chance. Which is still "unfair" to them - not getting the chance to build duplicates for even more slots is still disparate with console player luxuries - but it's at least a reasonable minimum.

26 minutes ago, chaotea said:

You've missread him here.

He wants them to give him slots for a gamemode hes not interested in playing......

Also this? This is just false. It just took an eternity for Archwing Interception to drop all the parts, and I did have one or two dips into Archwing Defense.

But I was not focussed on repeating the mission to exhaust possible drops immediately as there was no reason to expect that the freedom of building Archwing equipment would change. Until it had already happened.

 

19 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i cant believe i read what i read. if you didnt farm any of the equipment it was the same as having no slots. you want them to give you something you didnt even have? that makes absolutely no sense. i had everything up to the point they added archwing/weapons slots and still had to buy slots to fit the new stuff so.....

You are misreading. I do not want slots to fit the Specters of the Rail (and onwards) items. I do want compensation for the fact that the unannounced change underhandedly forces me to pay for slots to fit items that existed before, these slots that implicitly came with simple claiming of items (and costing nothing) being charged for without warning on one platform only is not fair and equal treatment.

15 weapons existed before Specters, yet without warning we became limited to 4 slots plus whatever we already had built. That last clause, console players got to exercise to have however many slots, up to and beyond 15, they cared to farm for. PC players did not, forcing them to pay for those up-to-11 slots just to hold previously existing gear.

Which is inequal customer treatment. Which is perfectly sensible to complain about.

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