Constructive Critisism and You

[Clazzeh]

Hi people!

 

Now I am just going to post this here as I have noticed a recent trend among forum posters like myself that is beginning to irritate both myself, and seemingly the perpetrators too. This being the text wall of doom. This referring to the walls of text that contain next to no structure or paragraphs (Edit to clear up any misunderstanding.)

Now the problem I have with this particular trend is a poster text walling their point of view on what they see as an issue in warframe, this is their choice and of course, it is entirely likely they have good points in there. Though it can be difficult to unravel the post to find the points they are trying to make when there is no structure to the post.

Most of these posters have issue with their post being ill received, resulting in them being insulted, misunderstood, or having their thread locked when it turns into its inevitable Skana measuring contest.

Though the OP is not the only thing at fault, someone replying to said post could always offer some tips on how to improve the OP or focus on the important points, I know it can be annoying when it comes across as someone insulting a game we love but you have to be careful you dont mistake something intended to be constructive for something entirely negative

Now this problem may not seem like such a big deal, and sure when you encounter something you dont like you may feel the need to throw everything together and get your voice out there as fast as you can. I can understand that, but relax, take a breath and then take some time wording your feelings and ideas. If your make use off paragraphs, punctuation and using the format tools provided you can make a much cleaner and presentable post that will get your point across much better!

 

I'll type up a quick example of what I am talking about, reiterating my previous points but as a text wall.

 

Example:

The problem with the warframe forums is that there are far too many textwalls about that make information hard to gather. I find it quite irritating and it needs fixing, though unless people put in the work themselves the problem will not go away. What we need is people to use punctuation, such as full stops, commas and paragraphs to get their point across in a clean and orderly way as to prevent their post from being misunderstood. It happens a lot and some people get a really negative raction for it, causing their whole thread to devolve into crap throwing contest that eventually gets shut down by the moderators. People need to stop and take a breath so that they can get their points across clearly and the posters need to stop and refrain from insults since its unfair on the poster that way too, constructive critism, if presented poorly, should be met with constructive criticism to improve its presentation.

--------------------------------------------------------

 

That post could be seen as being very negative (and short for a text wall but its painful for me to type like that) but the points I have outlined in it are pretty much the same as the ones above it. Though it is true the text above it took longer to type and is longer than the text wall, but it conveys my meaning much better and doesn't come off as being too aggressive or immature.

This lets people respond in a better manner, allowing them to address each point, rather than having to either address the whole post in a broad statement, or worse, dismiss your post as another rant/complaint thread and ignore any valid points you make. Even if you are not too good at doing the whole paragraph thing, as some people arent fond of it who I know myself, who I have also fallen out with many a time due to this same habit causing misunderstandings, there are other options.

You can use a list format to present your problems and solutions.

 

Example:

The forums have a few issues.

Problems:

1. Too many people misunderstand my posts and respond negatively.
2. I dont like paragraphing as I feel it can make a post seem far too long.

Solutions:

1. Make use of the format tools provided to separate out your negative and positive points.
2. Use a list.

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Using the tools provided to you to make your post presentable may not seem like a big deal as I said, but it can make a huge difference to how people perceive your posts and you yourself. You will always have a few people who will disagree with your points, and some who will just hurl insults, after all this is the internet, but by making sure you have done all you can to get your point across you can get a good conversation started and that can lead to great ideas and such for solutions for points you bring up.

I'd like to finish off this little ramble of mine here by saying that even if you dont want to use the tools I outlined above, I am not discouraging you from posting, your point that you bring up could be something important and it still holds validity even if poorly presented. Just try to keep your cool if people dont respond well to the format you choose to use, the moment you begin throwing insults, any point you tried to make will be lost, so do all you can to keep things civil.

 

Happy posting guys!

(Geddit? My avatar is a Loki and... ok I'll leave now :( )

(Annnnnnd I forgot I changed my avvie, now this joke is just awkward D8 )

Edited December 9, 2016 by Clazzeh
Forgot to add, proof reading and fixing mistakes, always a plus.

[Voltage]

The biggest problem is not the criticism, although sometimes it is rough to read, but the people that comment with a smart **s post so they can get some +rep. They don't read the post, and they post something that makes a joke or criticizes OP for some likes instead of thuroughly reading the post. What ends up happening is people read those comments and it starts a ton of crap for no reason and it isn't OPs fault.

EDIT: the comment below me @Serafim_94 just expressed the issue i described above PERFECTLY. Didn't read the post, and just read the last sentence to make a joke or something that is irrelevant.

Edited December 9, 2016 by -Voltage-

[Serafim_94]

You may want to check your avatar :P

[Clazzeh]

Just now, Serafim_94 said:

You may want to check your avatar :P

Darn it! I forgot I changed it a lil while ago xD

[Clazzeh]

2 minutes ago, -Voltage- said:

The biggest problem is not the criticism, although sometimes it is rough to read, but the people that comment with a smart **s post so they can get some +rep. They don't read the post, and they post something that makes a joke or criticizes OP for some likes instead of thuroughly reading the post. What ends up happening is people read those comments and it starts a ton of crap for no reason and it isn't OPs fault.

Aye that is an issue, but like I said, there will always be people like that, regrettably its the internet. At best all you can do is ignore them and try to steer the conversation in the right direction afterwards.

[ChuckMaverick]

Posts a wall of text to complain about people posting walls of text.

The irony is strong in this one.

[Serafim_94]

Just now, -Voltage- said:

EDIT: the comment below me @Serafim_94 just expressed the issue i described above PERFECTLY. Didn't read the post, and just read the last sentence to make a joke or something that is irrelevant.

Well, excuse me for using forums to actually talk with people and have fun. I'm strange like that, I know. Next time I'll post random tantrum about other posters that also has almost nothing to do with OP and pretend to be smart, just like you do.

[Clazzeh]

8 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Posts a wall of text to complain about people posting walls of text.

The irony is strong in this one.

My issue is walls of text without punctuation or paragraphing to separate out points. A more solid text wall than one that has holes in it. Added in a line to make that more clear.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Clazzeh

[Clazzeh]

8 minutes ago, -Voltage- said:

The biggest problem is not the criticism, although sometimes it is rough to read, but the people that comment with a smart **s post so they can get some +rep. They don't read the post, and they post something that makes a joke or criticizes OP for some likes instead of thuroughly reading the post. What ends up happening is people read those comments and it starts a ton of crap for no reason and it isn't OPs fault.

EDIT: the comment below me @Serafim_94 just expressed the issue i described above PERFECTLY. Didn't read the post, and just read the last sentence to make a joke or something that is irrelevant.

He was doing that more for humour than to detract the post, and he did have a point, my avatar was incorrect so I added a correction to the post.

 

3 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

Well, excuse me for using forums to actually talk with people and have fun. I'm strange like that, I know. Next time I'll post random tantrum about other posters that also has almost nothing to do with OP and pretend to be smart, just like you do.

Its not an issue, people having  a bit of fun isn't something I'm against, I really only have a problem when people start doing it just for insults or something, yours was fine since I did make a mistake and it was kinda funny :P

[SeaUrchins]

Starting a thread is putting your hand in a water tank with hungry piranhas: nobody cares about your point, you will be attacked. Your message will be ridiculed and twisted.

 

I blame it on the endorsement system, which in a way promotes toxicity, one liners and meme usage instead of intelligent exchange of information.

[Cray]

Sometimes, it pays to remember an age-old saying: Keep It Simple, Stupid.

 

Don't use 50 words when 10 will do. Don't write a page for something that only needs a paragraph. But at the same time, you have to be careful you don't oversimplify your main point. "I think both types of Kuva missions should give double their current values." comes off way better than "Needs more Kuva."

 

Writing is only a science grammatically. Conveying what you want to say? That's an art. Practice makes perfect, Loser Tenno.

[NewMilenium]

Several things.

1) I entirely agree with you there.

2) and yet, more constructive criticism consists at showing facts that are problems & solutions to them rather than opinions, or those forums turn into a "we want this" "no we want that" useless war.

3) you're an optimistic guy by posting this and expecting results ;)

 

-Voltage- > considering the number of irrevelant answers, and for very numerous different reasons, it's easier to simply ignore those reputation-searchers and answer to people that actually try to be constructive, I think.

 

[ChuckMaverick]

12 minutes ago, Clazzeh said:

My issue is walls of text without punctuation or paragraphing to separate out points. A more solid text wall than one that has holes in it. Added in a line to make that more clear.

I'll admit I was in part just poking fun, but you did suggest that people use a bullet point summary while being the polar opposite of brief and to the point with your own post.

[Clazzeh]

18 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

Sometimes, it pays to remember an age-old saying: Keep It Simple, Stupid.

 

Don't use 50 words when 10 will do. Don't write a page for something that only needs a paragraph. But at the same time, you have to be careful you don't oversimplify your main point. "I think both types of Kuva missions should give double their current values." comes off way better than "Needs more Kuva."

 

Writing is only a science grammatically. Conveying what you want to say? That's an art. Practice makes perfect, Loser Tenno.

You do bring up some valid points, and I do have a tendency to go off on a tangent, though it is usually better to over explain than to not explain enough in my experience. Also, not to be rude but the way you added stupid and loser tenno just makes me think you are some form of forum tsundere 8D

 

17 minutes ago, NewMilenium said:

Several things.

1) I entirely agree with you there.

2) and yet, more constructive criticism consists at showing facts that are problems & solutions to them rather than opinions, or those forums turn into a "we want this" "no we want that" useless war.

3) you're an optimistic guy by posting this and expecting results ;)

 

-Voltage- > considering the number of irrevelant answers, and for very numerous different reasons, it's easier to simply ignore those reputation-searchers and answer to people that actually try to be constructive, I think.

 

Well if it convinces at least one or two people to post up something in a easier to understand fashion, then mission accomplished!

Edited December 9, 2016 by Clazzeh

[Alcoholism]

Spoiler

 

[Clazzeh]

2 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

I'll admit I was in part just poking fun, but you did suggest that people use a bullet point summary while being the polar opposite of brief and to the point with your own post.

Aye, well I did add in an edit at the start to illustrate my intention. Ya may have been poking fun but it did bring up the point that I wasnt clear on my interperatation of a text wall so it was constructive in its own way :P

[Cray]

7 minutes ago, Clazzeh said:

Also, not to be ruse but the way you added stupid and loser tenno just makes me think you are some form of forum tsundere 8D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

 

As for loser: Have you perchance not been paying attention to recent news? [DE]Rebecca had a bit of an 'oops' moment. A tongue twisting, if you will. Hilarity ensued.

[Clazzeh]

2 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

 

As for loser: Have you perchance not been paying attention to recent news? [DE]Rebecca had a bit of an 'oops' moment. A tongue twisting, if you will. Hilarity ensued.

I have not been paying attention to recent news, though from the sounds of things I should read up on that as it sounds like it could be entertaining o:

Also that K.I.S.S thing is a pretty handy acronym

[ChuckMaverick]

I do agree with pretty much everything you said, by the way.

The problem is that thoughtful posters who will actually read this and think about their posting behaviour are probably not the ones you're trying to reach anyway.

But kudos for trying, never lose that optimism.

[rand0mname]

Ohhh, Loki <3 Upvote!

On a less silly side, I think that main problem with this "fix it now!" topics lies in the fact that posters who take care to make sure that their post is easy to understand and can have an intelligent discussion about something without stupid and childish insults, usually do notice that “Read before posting” topic, particularly the "General Discussion is not for feedback about the game, for bug reports or for help questions, we have other forum sections specifically for these things" bit.

...Wait, that was a very long sentence. *sign

Edited December 9, 2016 by rand0mname

[Clazzeh]

1 minute ago, ChuckMaverick said:

I do agree with pretty much everything you said, by the way.

The problem is that thoughtful posters who will actually read this and think about their posting behaviour are probably not the ones you're trying to reach anyway.

But kudos for trying, never lose that optimism.

Well I cant really call it optimism, I'm a glass is at 50% kinda guy :P

But I can see your point, but I suppose worst case scenario I can link this post rather than explain all over again to someone who is textwalling :P

[DeMonkey]

12 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

I blame it on the endorsement system, which in a way promotes toxicity, one liners and meme usage instead of intelligent exchange of information.

A shame it's come to that tbh. I won't lie, I'm pretty happy with my upvotes and the posts that get the upvotes. Call it Vanity or Pride, whatever you want, I like the fact that my posts are generally well received without having to resort to memes and such. 

But that is soured by, as has already been said, people who just want upvotes. A sad few who spoil the public perception.

If this were a feedback thread I'd probably suggest that removed/hidden post's upvotes are also removed. That way people can't post something overly antagonistic hoping to get a few up votes before the thread is moderated.

Since this is just GD though I'll just resign myself to the fact that it's the Internet which is full of people and a lot of people suck.

[ChuckMaverick]

Do people really care about upvotes?

They're clearly a meaningless measure of 'popularity' and have little to do with the merit of the post.

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

the problem with the forums ? too many people look like super experts at first sight, then by reading you understand they copy paste everything from youtube. Basically copy paste builds  and opinions as well. Im not talking about the entire forums but a good 40% of the posts

[ChuckMaverick]

Just now, (PS4)maso_sage-mode said:

the problem with the forums ? too many people look like super experts at first sight, then by reading you understand they copy paste everything from youtube. Basically copy paste builds  and opinions as well. Im not talking about the entire forums but a good 40% of the posts

I honestly don't mind that, at least they're posting (hopefully) good information.

What irritates me more is people posting misinformation, or posting opinions as if they are facts.