Don't sugarcoat the relic system.

[NeonNemesis]

8 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Instead of making a new thread of complaining of the new relic system how about make some suggestions. 

How about this, in the next prime released DE locks the Void again and you can convert your relics into Void keys, then whoever wants the old Void goes to the old Void whoever wants the new fissures goes to farm the new relics that come out to farm the new fissures.

[StinkyPygmy]

24 minutes ago, pauli133 said:

Don't sugarcoat the void key system. It was still a roll of the dice as to whether or not you got the key you wanted from a given rotation on a given mission - 'keys on demand' is straight up fantasy.

 All the missions for prime parts were run on the same soulcrushing tileset. Waiting 20 minutes, only for the game to crap on you... yet again.

The old void key system was killing. the. game. Week after week, I watched friends just... not show up, because the prime part treadmill was poisoning the entire game for them. Since SotR, I've seen them come back, and enjoy the variety of missions being run.

Was it an unpleasant change for people used to sitting back and doing nothing but slowly metering out the enormous stockpile of ancient void keys they had? Sure. People willing to run hours and hours of T3 Survival for that one part they were after, though, aren't the target market. Balance has returned, and everyone is now motivated to get out there and play across the star chart.

The real kicker: with the new system I get more parts, faster, for less work and less stress.

Exactly. The old system is actually more or less the same except the new system allows us to play with the odds AND we aren't forced to spend years in the void. I know that this isn't "proof" that the RNG is better but consider this: after 3 years I finally have mag prime. Three. Goddamn. Years. Not only that but I currently have more toys sitting in the foundry then I know what to do with. I almost have too many new prime toys to play with.

With the old system there may have been less keys, but their drop tables were clogged up meaning that you still had next to no chance of getting what you wanted anyway, even if you had the key. Not to mention you were limited to the rolls you could actually make for said item if it was endless. It was basically Rotation C or bust. We are no longer locked into rotations for parts and we can play with the odds? Sign me up.

I enjoy the new system. Sure it needs tweaks. But it WORKS and more importantly, many of us are actually having FUN. Thats the key word: FUN. You know, what games are supposed to be for. The fact I'm having fun means I don't even mind too much if I don;' get what I want. my consolation prize is the ducats and traces I got, along with the potential relics I can grind depending on the mission, that I might actually need. Heck, I've managed to get relics I needed for the part I was after as I was actually doing a fissure for it. The fact we can fairly often grind traces, parts and relics at the same time is pretty neat.

TL;DR

New system, still better then the old system.

Edited December 9, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[Emulad0or]

Not sugarcoating it. Only saying that in the old void the fastest I farmed a new prime (warframe and weapons) was 5 days. Nekros I did in 3 days and Valkyr in 5 hours. Those are the facts. Observed, tested and confirmed.

[pauli133]

16 minutes ago, WhyNotBro said:

Well yeah. However...what would i do with all my old relics? :D They are just a dead weight in my inventory. I would like the idea to convert them into new ones. Somehow :D

Do you really need to have how to properly utilize old relics and new relics in combination spelled out for you?

[Vohim]

6 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Exactly. The old system is actually more or less the same except it allows us to play with the odds AND we aren't forced to spend years in the void. I know that this isn't "proof" that the RNG is better but consider this: after 3 years I finally have mag prime. Three. Goddamn. Years. Not only that but i currently hav emore toys sitting in the foundry then I know what to do with. I almost have too many new prime toys to play with.

With the old system there may have been less keys, but their drop tables were clogged up meaning that you still had next to no chance of getting what you wanted anyway, even if you had the key. Not to mention you were limited to the rolls you could actually make for said item if it was endless. It was basically Rotation C or bust. We are no longer locked into rotations for parts and we can play with the odds? Sign me up.

I enjoy the new system. Sure it needs tweaks. But it WORKS and more importantly, many of us are actually having FUN. Thats the key word: FUN. You know, whats games are supposed to be for. The fact I'm having fun means I don;t even mind too much if I don;t get what I want. my consolation prize is teh ducats and traces I got, along with the potential relics I can grind depending on the mission, that I might actually need. Heck, I've managed to get relics I needed for the part I was after as I was actually doing a fissure for it. The fact we can fairly often grind traces, parts and relics at the same time is pretty neat.

TL;DR

New system, still better then the old system.

well just like the new system needs tweaks the onld system could ve simply been tweaked as well 

the only thing that killed the old system was  forma and fusion rolls on rotation Bs and Cs

as well as too many uncommon  gear in rotation Cs

 

 

in other words if we  simply had removed  cores and forma from rotation Bs and    moved uncommons to Bs and raised  the rare gears and prime chances  to 10% we'd have had a way better  system

 

and debatable if  a  repeated rotation could ve been removed  enabling rotation Cs to proc more often

Edited December 9, 2016 by Retepzednem

[N7-CommanderShepard]

if only if they put the relic reward system into the old void keys would be so much more fun less paranoid radiant ppl and 1 key to play with all friends and frenemies 
 

don't see it happening since its all about prime acess :/

Edited December 9, 2016 by N7-CommanderShepard

[NeonNemesis]

2 minutes ago, pauli133 said:

Do you really need to have how to properly utilize old relics and new relics in combination spelled out for you?

What? Wait till their content goes rare and then try to sell it by plat to trade for new primes? Could take a while.

[Xekrin]

47 minutes ago, TeaBegging said:

And once I get the relic I need go trough another set of RNG, and to actually get some use out if it I need to sacrifice other relics to go trough another set of RNG traces. 

I'm confused on this part.  You think you need to sacrifice a relic to get traces?  This is untrue.

40 minutes ago, KirukaChan said:

I have to agree. It takes a lot longer for me to get Prime stuff now.

While it may take longer to get newly added Prime parts such as PA and PV items, those relics last forever.  You could literally farm nothing but relics from Prime Vault and then farm for frost/ember next year with those relics.  Nothing is forcing people to farm a relic, use said relic and repeat within the limited time that PV is available.

Previously, with keys, people already had a supply of said keys that PV stuff lands on, so it was a race against the clock to get the parts before it went away, now its a race to get the relics, a slightly easier rng to get relics than battle the low drop rates of prime parts.

Farm 50 relics in a row and then farm whats in the relics.  People are just firmly set in the mentality of MUST HAVE NOW that they don't see the benefits of the relic system now.  1 relic as exactly the same drop chance of your needed part as old keys did, except you can upgrade those chances now.  You can also use 4 of the same relic for quadruple the drop rate chances.  

Overall relic system is better is just conflicts with the mindset most players have gotten used to with keys so they look at relics as worse.

Just one way to look at in anyway, and just my opinion, I'm sure few share it.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Xekrin

[Inarticulate]

15 minutes ago, WhyNotBro said:

Well yeah. However...what would i do with all my old relics? :D They are just a dead weight in my inventory. I would like the idea to convert them into new ones. Somehow :D

You can sell the relics for Platinum. You can use them to farm Void Traces and junk Prime parts to sell for Platinum. You can use them to farm Void Traces and junk Prime parts to sell for Ducats.

If the relic contains vaulted parts, farm the vaulted parts for Platinum. If the relic contains parts that will be vaulted in the future, hold onto them to sell the relics or the parts when the parts become vaulted.

Or, you know, you can hoard them like we did with keys back in the day.

 

24 minutes ago, Venom-Snake said:

And here we have the difference. Beforehand you had:

+ Stockpiles of keys

And this is the truth and the entire basis for the whining.

The only reason people complain about "one extra layer of grinding" is because those who complain had a stockpile of keys lying around from years ago and never had to grind them again. This is something that DE has stated that they didn't want happening.

For newer players, there is no difference in the "layers of grinding" for Prime parts, and it's actually easier for them now because the drop rates on Prime parts have been significantly improved. Posters in other topic have already done the math, so I won't bother with it here.

[chaotea]

While i think the system is generally better, i do think that that is one aspect thats not so good.

[Burritochu]

Honestly, I like the new system. I think it's made getting parts easier, the real problem is how diluted the relic drops are in missions. Think about it, every rotation that has a chance to drop relics, can drop ANY relic from that era or possibly something you'll find useless (I'm looking at you gold mods I already have numerous copies of.). What needs to be done is cut out some of the relics from one node's drop table and push them somewhere else.

[StinkyPygmy]

11 minutes ago, Retepzednem said:

well just like the new system needs tweaks the onld system could ve simply been tweaked as well 

the only thing that killed the old system was  forma and fusion rolls on rotation Bs and Cs

as well as too many uncommon  gear in rotation Cs

 

 

in other words if we  simply had removed  cores and forma from rotation Bs and    moved uncommons to Bs and raised  the rare gears and prime chances  to 10% we'd have had a way better  system

 

and debatable if  a  repeated rotation could ve been removed  enabling rotation Cs to proc more often

I just typed up am essay long reply to this only for my internet to crash, but just imagine it was something smart.

Short version:... you know what. I can't be bothered to even try typing that again. :/ I half agree with your point.

Edited December 9, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[Zhaeph]

42 minutes ago, Khanhls124 said:

it not perfect but it still good , i got ember prime and frost prime set in 2 day with relic , something i cant do in the old system

I'm glad for you... but what about me ? I'm farming Axi E1 for 3 days straight and no relic dropped... it's like I'm farming Legendary Core....and with make a relic radiant and you have a 10% chance at that rare part from it.. only commons and uncommons->maybe at 7th 8th run you will get that rare :|

Edited December 9, 2016 by ShadowNumb

[StinkyPygmy]

3 minutes ago, ShadowNumb said:

I'm glad for you... but what about me ? I'm farming Aci E1 dor 3 days straight and no relic dropped... it's like I'm farming Legendary Core....

3 years for mag prime and I only just got her since the new relic system dropped. Still don't have rhino or glaive prime. You ain't go no cause to complain, son. 3 days is nothing. The old system could screw people for months, years. All the while they just sat there in the void forever. Never to leave. No sleep. Just grind. Just 4 pressing. Just tears.

You poor, sweet, lil Tenno... So innocent, so pure.

Edited December 9, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[gluih]

The system overall is definitly an improvement. Don't forget that you also had to farm keys in the old system to then go into the void hoping to get the item you want.

The big improvement here is that there is a way to significantly improve your chances to get the item you want once you have a relic. And then there were the stupid C rotations in the old system where it was really frustrating to run survival or defense over and over again without getting the item you are looking for.

The problem isn't the system in general, but how some of the details are handled. This system would be a lot less frustrating if the way we get relics had more variety. Why can't axi relics drop in spy missions? Why is syndicate standing the only way to prepare for a new release?

[MetaTrooper]

It'd help a lot to just give us a reliable source for relics, the void has very little significance now besides argon crystals, why not give you a varying number of relics based on mission difficulty in the void with endless missions being 1-2 per wave/round/5minutes?

Better yet, make them void drops with a similar drop rate to ayatan stars, seems like it'd make things much easier.

[Troll_Logic]

Guys, you're missing the fun part next year.

"Hosting group to farm Prime BPs.  Must equip Axl92 or Neo117 relic"

[Xebov]

The System might not be the best we can get, but its far better than Keys. Its easier to farm for specific parts and the chance to actually get parts needed is much higher.

[AM-Bunny]

As far as I recall, I don't think they ever claimed Relics would reduce grind. 

The main purpose was to reduce void fatigue and encourage you to play different mission types on different tilesets. That much has been accomplished.

What exactly are they sugarcoating?

[Borg1611]

There's a lot of threads about this popping up, likely because farming Axi E1 relics is a nightmare. 

My suggestion (that I mentioned in some of the other threads as well) is simply to allow endless relic farming missions to increase our chances of getting newer relics the longer we stay in the mission so we can mitigate relic RNG. If you imagine each relic type had say 3 sub-tiers where T1 was the oldest relics, T2 was mid age and T3 was the newest relics from the past 3 or so releases (or un-vaults), the weights to get each sub-tier would start equal when a relic drops and then gradually shift to T3 the longer you stay in the mission. Eventually T1 and T2 would be eliminated completely, leaving only T3 left. 

This way we are rewarded for sticking to the mission for longer with a much better shot at the newer relics that we're after. They're not handed to us, there's still RNG, but that RNG is mitigated by effort in an endless mission that continues to get more difficult the longer you stay. 

[Inarticulate]

35 minutes ago, Borg1611 said:

My suggestion (that I mentioned in some of the other threads as well) is simply to allow endless relic farming missions to increase our chances of getting newer relics the longer we stay in the mission so we can mitigate relic RNG.

Some players might be looking for older relics. It would be unfair to them to do this.

A better option would be to give the player a choice from two or three relics from later rewards. For example, relics from reward round 5 and up would appear as "Unidentified [Lith/Meso/Neo/Axi] Relic". When completing the mission, each unidentified relic would give the player a choice between 2 (for rounds 5-8) or 3 (for rounds 9+) relics from that era.

[SenariousNex]

Dear Salt miners.

When Dual Kama Primes Came out I spent 50 runs of Tower capture to get ONE blade. I ended up buying 2nd one anyway. Before you knock the relic system, consider how many runs it takes to get a reward that you "NEED". In the current system you get less items, per "key" and it takes more work to setup a proper group but you have higher chances of getting the ones you want. MUCH higher,

Have you all forgotten farming rotation C on T3S? That S#&$ was DREADFULL. All they need to do is give larger bonuses for doing more waves, maybe better chances at rare relics after 30+ waves.

Soultion

RIght now my problem is that I do not have enough relics to run a proper endless mission or if i do, then one of my teammates doesn't. Maybe make it so endless missions only take 1 relic like they used to take 1 key?

[TessaraVejgan]

Another one of these " old void was better" threads. Nope, old void was horrendous, sickness inducing nightmare. The old ways are gone forever and good riddance. No more wasting hours upon hours and days upon days of your time until you're a soulless shell withering away trying to get that one part you're missing. I left the game for a few months because of it and honestly if they hadn't changed it I probably wouldn't be here. The new fissure system is a fantastic improvement. Here is how I get what parts I need. I usually do the syndicate missions and look out for medallions (Mostly fast missions and I don't spend time trying to find every single one, half is good enough for me) and spend the standing on relic packs. With that I usually get a few new relics when new primes are released. I only do fast missions to get traces and get them while farming ducats. Then I just lurk in rec chat and ask for inv when someone is running a relic I'm interested in. That way I get pretty much all the new stuff within a week. For instance I already got myself all the unvaulted primes that were just released. Sure i didn't get all the parts from relic drops, some of the parts I got by trading the parts I didn't need for parts I did need. Got lucky and had 3 extra frost p bp which I then traded for some of the other parts :). Fissure system is a paradise compared to the old void.    

[Flirk2]

1 hour ago, TessaraVejgan said:

No more wasting hours upon hours and days upon days of your time until you're a soulless shell withering away trying to get that one part you're missing.

Now, you can waste the same amount of time trying to get enough of the specific relic type. Then the same amount of time trying to get enough void traces to make them radiant (endless fissures you say? And how much more relic farming would I need to do then? You know you can't get traces past the first rotation in those without opening relics, right?). then waste about the same amount of time in recruiting tab. Recruiting tab fishing for a specific relic group is the new endgame, after all. Problem is, I don't get anything from sitting there, while in the old void survival I got at least something every 5 minutes (orokin cells, cores and forma, you say? Well, sure better then nothing at all from the recruiting tab! And better game play in the old void than recruiting tab as well).

Only to find out, that your 16 radiant relics you opened didn't really get you an uncommon drop you wanted.

Sorry, but give me T3S instead of this any day. Easy to find a group if you want to go in a team. Starting the mission any time I want. Easy to get the keys. A lot of time in the void? Well, I would rather spend the same amount of time in the old void than in the new Hieracon with every infested having a ranged weapon and less then 100% chance to walk away with any relic at all, forget the one type you need out of 10 in the drop table (but they added relics for B rotation, you say? Sure, that's why I had a 2000 cryotic run with 3 Axi relics to show for it..., would get 5 keys 100% in the old days, but those were bad old days, were they not?).

But for some reason the lucky people who get things fast like to ignore the actual odds. I would wait for them to see how it could go the other way... but there will be enough new lucky people to defend the system.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Flirk2

[Borg1611]

 

5 hours ago, Inarticulate said:

Some players might be looking for older relics. It would be unfair to them to do this.

A better option would be to give the player a choice from two or three relics from later rewards. For example, relics from reward round 5 and up would appear as "Unidentified [Lith/Meso/Neo/Axi] Relic". When completing the mission, each unidentified relic would give the player a choice between 2 (for rounds 5-8) or 3 (for rounds 9+) relics from that era.

I do kind of like that idea. It still mitigates RNG while also giving us better rewards (or more options at least) the longer we stay. It also seems like it would be easier to implement since they already have a similar system in place for fissures. 

I think where it would run into problems is if you run a long endless mission and say you find 10 relics, then at the end of your mission you get a fissure-like popup to choose a relic reward, then another, then another, then another (or a long list of them all at once). It might seem too clunky or tedious in practice. 

Another option could be to just give us additional random relics the further we are in an endless mission. They could also add some kind of upgrade system where you can combine say 3 older relics into a random less old relic and perhaps shatter newer relics into multiple older relics or something. Maybe even have transmute "recipes" where specific combinations of relics combine into specific other relics similar to something like PoE vendor recipes. /shrug

Edited December 10, 2016 by Borg1611