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Don't sugarcoat the relic system.


TeaBegging
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12 hours ago, Venom-Snake said:

And here we have the difference. Beforehand you had:

+ Stockpiles of keys

- Rewards changed

+ You kept the huge amount of keys

- Cells, Cores, Forma BPs

Now:

- Cant Stockpiles of Relics

+ Rewards dont change

- You have to farm new Relics

+ No Cores, Cells... Forma is still there thought

The negative just changed places

 

You forgot:

Now

-Group dependency.

-Relic Shelf Life

-Greater emphasis on layered rarity via Rare drop relics and number of relics.

-Awful endless mission game play

 

And no I don't think saying endless mission game play is awful would be a matter of perspective. I'm quite certain 90% of endurance runners will tell you that a Nullifier dropping on your head past lvl 100+ on a complete RNG basis is garbage game play. Not to mention many of the non-void factions have enemies which break by lvl 80, Scorchers, Techs and Napalms come to mind.

When it comes to Vaulted items the new system might be slightly forgiving but it's also far less rewarding. 2 Week before something gets vaulted I'd jump in the Void and farm it up. Before the switch I farmed 11 Rhino sets, 9 Loki, 10 Frosts. After the switch I have 4 Nyx and 4 Nova. I could not find a group to farm Nero N1 (Nyx Chasis) So I had to blow all 34 of my Radiants I saved, solo. Just like I can't find a group to farm Soma Stock so my 30 Relics will likely be wasted.

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16 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

You forgot:

Now

-Group dependency.

-Relic Shelf Life

-Greater emphasis on layered rarity via Rare drop relics and number of relics.

-Awful endless mission game play

 

And no I don't think saying endless mission game play is awful would be a matter of perspective. I'm quite certain 90% of endurance runners will tell you that a Nullifier dropping on your head past lvl 100+ on a complete RNG basis is garbage game play. Not to mention many of the non-void factions have enemies which break by lvl 80, Scorchers, Techs and Napalms come to mind.

When it comes to Vaulted items the new system might be slightly forgiving but it's also far less rewarding. 2 Week before something gets vaulted I'd jump in the Void and farm it up. Before the switch I farmed 11 Rhino sets, 9 Loki, 10 Frosts. After the switch I have 4 Nyx and 4 Nova. I could not find a group to farm Nero N1 (Nyx Chasis) So I had to blow all 34 of my Radiants I saved, solo. Just like I can't find a group to farm Soma Stock so my 30 Relics will likely be wasted.

A nullifier dropping on your head is garbage gameplay, I absolutely agree.  That has precisely zero to do with the framework of endless missions, however.  A nullifier spawning straight on top of you is bad design no matter when it happens, it's just a whole lot more noticeable in situations that can cause you to outright fail a mission.

Honestly, that's my only real beef with the relic system---the spawn mechanic just doesn't work.  I've had the first ten to fifteen enemies drop all the reactant on exterminates time and again, yet I've held back to open extractions before I lost out, and have missed them a number of times on survival simply because enemies aren't dropping enough reactant, despite singling out void spawns and actively avoiding killing the "normal" enemies until they are corrupted.  These issues come on top of inopportune nullifier spawns that still crop up every now and again.

I'm finding solo relics just as forgiving as solo keys where, mostly because I can use multiple attempts rather than having all of them relegated to rotation C in void 4.  Tossing all of the "rare" drops into T4/T3 rot C was every bit as much crap as having relics be a pain to obtain.  It was a bad system and I don't miss it.

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11 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

A nullifier dropping on your head is garbage gameplay, I absolutely agree.  That has precisely zero to do with the framework of endless missions, however.  A nullifier spawning straight on top of you is bad design no matter when it happens, it's just a whole lot more noticeable in situations that can cause you to outright fail a mission.

Honestly, that's my only real beef with the relic system---the spawn mechanic just doesn't work.  I've had the first ten to fifteen enemies drop all the reactant on exterminates time and again, yet I've held back to open extractions before I lost out, and have missed them a number of times on survival simply because enemies aren't dropping enough reactant, despite singling out void spawns and actively avoiding killing the "normal" enemies until they are corrupted.  These issues come on top of inopportune nullifier spawns that still crop up every now and again.

I'm finding solo relics just as forgiving as solo keys where, mostly because I can use multiple attempts rather than having all of them relegated to rotation C in void 4.  Tossing all of the "rare" drops into T4/T3 rot C was every bit as much crap as having relics be a pain to obtain.  It was a bad system and I don't miss it.

 

Nullifier's from the sky is the situation that Relics have introduce so there's really nothing else to point a finger at except the flawed enemy itself but that's been done for a year now and they've only made them more of a nuisance.

The only thing I found to be trash in the old loot table was Orokin cells and that was something they added later. R5s are good. They're worth more than some prime parts.

After wasting 34 Radiants trying to get Nyx chassis with 0 results I can't agree on it being equal for solo players. It punishes solo players or rewards group players. however you want to think of it. My rewards should not be affected by whether I have a group or not. Instead of playing with others for social and tactical interaction they're nothing more than loot. This was an issue with the old Void but only for Capt/Sab/Ext not all missions.

If I wanted them to change anything it would be the group based loot situation and the interaction of fissure spawns and reactant. There's really no reason to even have reactant. It's a pointless hurdle.  I can forgive that my relics have a shelf life and result in wasted time if I hold them too long but when the game play itself sucks. I just can't stand playing it.

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well i can't understand the sentiments of all the relic-fans here
i got my stuff a lot faster in the void. you talk about weeks/months in the void?! ye, but how many hours did u actually play? if i'd play "only" 1 hour/day i'd most likely never have gotten frost prime without buying it. and now before you start, yes, i am a veteran and know the old void, started 1 day after frost got vaulted and was afk for last years unvaulting, thats why i did not have it

and with all your pro's mentioned you forget 1 key factor....with the keys it was enough if 1 person had a key (so in endless 4 ppl could grind for hours with only 1 key = multiple shots at a rotation for 1 key), now everybody needs a relic, so for a radiant run you need rng for relic+ rng for traces X4(!!!!) to get rng for the prime part only once...do the math..the overall time spent to get a drop is A LOt higher than it ever was + the void was selfsustaining because u also got keys, so if 4 ppl got a key from a voidrun it gave the potential means for 16 ppl to farm parts off that 1 rotation. it never ever happened to me that i could not grind for the part i want because i did not have the key, which now with the relics is absolute standard

grind reduced? really?!

the chances of getting those "unvaulted relics" is still smaller, since they are mixed with the regular droptables and thereby further reduce the chances to get a specific relic

21 meso f2 for frost bp here, still no valkyr, 500k standing spent on relicpacks -> got 3! new ones

Edited by kuchn
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The only thing I would ask for, of the new void system is for void traces to drop from the void.

Seriously, I'm sure plenty of people here have thousands upon thousands of control modules, courtesy of a resource that was there that as probably a placeholder.

Can't we have void traces instead of modules in the void?

Edited by omeggga
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1 hour ago, kuchn said:

it never ever happened to me that i could not grind for the part i want because i did not have the key, which now with the relics is absolute standard

Amen to that.

I always used endless modes to level my stuff up like survs and excavs so I always had a fine supply of keys ready to go. Sure, SOME were rarer than the others, but even then I never farmed for keys specifically. And to actually run out of something? Hmm, I think T4Cap did that to me a couple of times.

In meanwhile with the "new and improved" system and well over 15h (20h? idk, lost count) of gameplay spent JUST farming relics, I only saw Axi V5 a couple of times, and radshares I did with friends ended up with nothing. Yay, improvement >_>

2 minutes ago, Wolfchild07 said:

I would've had all the new stuff by now with the old system.

Same.

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It's not even about getting some specific stuff from the new system versus old. For me, at least. It's about the process.

I used to go on survival and defense missions even if there was nothing in the drop table I need. And I'm not someone who trades much. I just like to have a spare if someone would pop up who needs it.

But now I can't be bothered going for something I don't need.

Because the preparation cycle is too long and frustrating.

 

And don't let me start on ''4x forma bp from a radiant run''. I don't remember any one time I would get a forma on rotation C of any mission 4 times in a row.

Now it's a common occurrence. And when it happens with the same relics it's one thing. But I had 4x forma bp with all different relics.

4 consecutive rolls with the same result should be a rare thing. But it's not. And when some people bring it up? The answer is always ''RNG!''.

Because we all know there could be nothing wrong with the rolling process. It's not like we had a fix recently for endless modes giving you reward you had drop from your relic no matter what you have selected (unless you selected a forma bp, that is. You got that instead of the part dropped from your relic...). No, sir. It's all just bad luck and ''git gud''.

The thought that drop rates on average being as intended is not necessary an indication of rolls in the team being independent seem to elude the lucky people out there who don't get 3x forma run after a 4x forma run.

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I mean.

 

56 hours of game time just grinding the relics to run for a single part drop with zero chance at any other notably-valuable drops is so much better than kicking back in T3 Survival for a couple hours a day whenever you want, right?

 

Replacing all the time spent in the pretty, Orokin Void tileset with just as much if not more time trudging through the dreary busywork of the single-tile Interception map of Xini, such relief from fatigue, like wow.

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The biggest current problem with relics which is undeniably worse than the old tower keys is the axi relic grind. With the addition of the Frost/Ember relics, we now have ELEVEN axi relics to sort through. Getting the relic you want is a nightmare, made worse by the fact that datamining has shown the newest relics are stuffed into a very small number of drop locations. Valkyr relics for example, only drop from C rotations, so even if a mission gives axi on a B rotation (defense/interception), it will not be a valkyr relic. Ember/Frost is currently the worst, with only a small chance to drop from C rotation excavation or C rotation survival. They don't even drop in defense or interception. There are probably players farming defense/interception right now getting flooded with Axi relics and wondering why they haven't gotten a single Axi E1 yet. You'd think this means they're just splitting relics between drop tables so that perhaps half the axi relics come from one place, and the other half comes from another, but no! The places that drop the new relics drop ALL the relics! Hell, half the axi drop tables don't even guarantee you a relic, giving you 15 endo or a mod card instead! 

The grind is still exactly the same as the old 2% tower key system, it's just now shifted to getting the relics you want to open.

Edited by Biscotchi
typo fixes
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6 minutes ago, Biscotchi said:

Ember/Frost is currently the worst, with only a small chance to drop from C rotation excavation or C rotation survival. They don't even drop in defense or interception. There are probably players farming defense/interception right now getting flooded with Axi relics and wondering why they haven't gotten a single Axi E1 yet.

*raises hand*

Dammit...

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getting that Axi E1!! ye gods its horrible.. i feel like i never want to see Hieracon or xini ever again. 

cant we like spend 3 relics and turn them into 1 we do want or something. Like a recipe costing different resources and credits. dont care what the cost is, sick of farming for axi e1. 

Instead of the actual mission in the void to get the prime parts. its all about the grind to get the relic which kinda sucks in my opinion.

 

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ha ha ha yeah now more and more players are starting to feel the noose tightening.  gotta repeat it again relic system is pure garbage and RNG! is killing the game.. there is nothing good about the system and more and more ppl is getting fed up just thinking of what they have to face to get what they want>> there will always be those lucky minority who gets their fix in a few tries while the majority cringe at the very thought. but until those said minority feels the pinch they too will be singing this song.

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22 minutes ago, Biscotchi said:

The grind is still exactly the same as the old 2% tower key system, it's just now shifted to getting the relics you want to open.

I can't emphasise this enough. Psychologically, assuming the same rate of drops/acquisitions overall, this is going to feel much worse for most people.

Every time you win out on the RNG roll for a relic dropping, your excitement is going to be limited because you are only seeing a potential 34.69% chance to get what you want.

Every time you win out on the RNG roll for a part dropping in the void, you see 100% what you want.

 

The void drop slot machine is watched with anticipation because your payout is absolute. The Relic drop slot machine is watched with trepidation because you know your payout might not be worth anything and you'll just have to grind all over again.

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20 hours ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Exactly. The old system is actually more or less the same except the new system allows us to play with the odds AND we aren't forced to spend years in the void. I know that this isn't "proof" that the RNG is better but consider this: after 3 years I finally have mag prime. Three. Goddamn. Years. Not only that but I currently have more toys sitting in the foundry then I know what to do with. I almost have too many new prime toys to play with.

With the old system there may have been less keys, but their drop tables were clogged up meaning that you still had next to no chance of getting what you wanted anyway, even if you had the key. Not to mention you were limited to the rolls you could actually make for said item if it was endless. It was basically Rotation C or bust. We are no longer locked into rotations for parts and we can play with the odds? Sign me up.

I enjoy the new system. Sure it needs tweaks. But it WORKS and more importantly, many of us are actually having FUN. Thats the key word: FUN. You know, what games are supposed to be for. The fact I'm having fun means I don't even mind too much if I don;' get what I want. my consolation prize is the ducats and traces I got, along with the potential relics I can grind depending on the mission, that I might actually need. Heck, I've managed to get relics I needed for the part I was after as I was actually doing a fissure for it. The fact we can fairly often grind traces, parts and relics at the same time is pretty neat.

TL;DR

New system, still better then the old system.

No. This is yet another example of whitewashing an exploitative design.

Specific relics are too difficult to obtain by design. After months of play, I've not managed to build a Vauban Prime Chassis, because I cannot collect enough AXI V1 Relics. The few I had from the conversion process are gone, and I've picked up only one more in the past six months. This is by design.

The new system is designed to increase grind and frustration, with the hope players will be more likely to make cash purchases. The old system did not punish the persistent enough, so the new system was contrived as a replacement.

Yes, it is easy to gather parts you already have and no longer need.

However, and contrary to the fantasies posted above, it is monumentally difficult to build new parts you need, because specific Relics are too difficult to farm. Again, I've gotten one AXI V1 Relic in six months. One. I need nine more to have a decent chance of building the chassis I need. At this rate, I'll have it in five years.

Relic drops need to be increased, spread about the various maps and missions. Trash mods need to be removed from the drop tables of high-level missions. If that's done, perhaps DE has more interest in "fun" than has been demonstrated over the past year.

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HAHAHEHE Fools, you poor pathetic misguided creatures, wait, just wait until you run out of your precious relics. You will BEG! for old Void T3S. You have absolutely no idea, how this system is rotten and simply unethical. Just wait, until you run out of them. ALL OF THEM! Did you waste your precious time before, in Void to farm specific item, HAHAHA Now, you will spend 3x more time to find actual key to have CHANCE to get this item. Syndicate packs? Forget, DE think about that. I have spend over millions syndicate points to this point, countless hours beating the living S#&$ out of infested..not a single E1. If i spend this amount of time in old void (like i did), i will farm all my primes (volt, frost, rhino) within two days! I still never had A CHANCE! to get hand on Vauban, Valkyr, Nekro, Ember, or Frost (Don't get me started on prime weapons)  Relics, this is how much this system is rotten from inside. And all of this start with simple idea..to  change void farming. Just having this sharing idea (4 people, 4 keys 4 reward) and expand ability to find primes all over star charts or in specific missions/alerts, not only in void..But no, DE as usual take this system, scrap it and develop new, much worse *cough cough secondary rivens*. I've played this game over 2 years, until i was burn out and have half year pause. Now i start playing when riven mods arrive, and i'm already burned out. This is how wrong this relic system is. This system actually hurt game to the point, where players stopping playing and whole clans disband.

tumblr_nlfb27Knsv1tqv9ono2_500.gif

Edited by JustSneaky
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The fissure system is a vastly superior system than the old void ever was, get over it. I see some people mention T3S here, did you forget you were forced to spend 20min in it before you got to that c rotation and saw if you got the part you wanted. Now its 5-10min at most. Relics are incredibly easy to get, sure it may not be the ones you're looking for but they drop pretty much everywhere and you'll get them eventually if you are patient. Even once the primes are vaulted their relics stay in your inventory which means you can farm it later and the prices for those primes will remain more reasonable for newer players that can't wait for unvaulting. Hell I even run into people running vaulted relics from time to time in public while farming for ducats and traces. Getting prime parts has undoubtedly become much, much easier and the prices for prime sets and items seem to reflect that. There is no argument you could possibly make that will lead me and probably the majority of the playerbase to believe that the old way was better. I think the real reason people here are whining about relics is because over the years they accumulated a wast collection of keys and they forgot how it was like to farm for them. They grew complacent and lazy. Now that everyone is on equal footing they have to get out and do some leg work and it doesn't sit well with them.

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2 minutes ago, TessaraVejgan said:

The fissure system is a vastly superior system than the old void ever was, get over it. I see some people mention T3S here, did you forget you were forced to spend 20min in it before you got to that c rotation and saw if you got the part you wanted. Now its 5-10min at most. Relics are incredibly easy to get, sure it may not be the ones you're looking for but they drop pretty much everywhere and you'll get them eventually if you are patient. Even once the primes are vaulted their relics stay in your inventory which means you can farm it later and the prices for those primes will remain more reasonable for newer players that can't wait for unvaulting. Hell I even run into people running vaulted relics from time to time in public while farming for ducats and traces. Getting prime parts has undoubtedly become much, much easier and the prices for prime sets and items seem to reflect that. There is no argument you could possibly make that will lead me and probably the majority of the playerbase to believe that the old way was better. I think the real reason people here are whining about relics is because over the years they accumulated a wast collection of keys and they forgot how it was like to farm for them. They grew complacent and lazy. Now that everyone is on equal footing they have to get out and do some leg work and it doesn't sit well with them.

1.) Most people are arguing here that the new system is just as bad as the old one, not that the old one is better.

2.) 20 minutes in a survival in hope that you get the small percentage of a chance to get what you want. It is true that this no longer applies to prime part drops. Guess where it does apply though? Getting the relics. 20 minutes in a survival for a 7% chance of getting a single axi E1 which may or may not drop the piece you need. The new grind is NOT opening relics for the pieces you want, that part is fine. The new grind is GETTING the relics. Things have basically flipped 180 degrees. Before it was easy to get keys, hard to get the drop you want. Now it's easy to get the drop you want and hard to get the right relics. (Again however, I'd argue that only applies to Axi relics. Lith through Neo have more missions that drop them, and there are fewer relics in each of those categories than there are in the Axi relic category). 

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23 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

Now, you can waste the same amount of time trying to get enough of the specific relic type. Then the same amount of time trying to get enough void traces to make them radiant (endless fissures you say? And how much more relic farming would I need to do then? You know you can't get traces past the first rotation in those without opening relics, right?). then waste about the same amount of time in recruiting tab. Recruiting tab fishing for a specific relic group is the new endgame, after all. Problem is, I don't get anything from sitting there, while in the old void survival I got at least something every 5 minutes (orokin cells, cores and forma, you say? Well, sure better then nothing at all from the recruiting tab! And better game play in the old void than recruiting tab as well).

Only to find out, that your 16 radiant relics you opened didn't really get you an uncommon drop you wanted.

Sorry, but give me T3S instead of this any day. Easy to find a group if you want to go in a team. Starting the mission any time I want. Easy to get the keys. A lot of time in the void? Well, I would rather spend the same amount of time in the old void than in the new Hieracon with every infested having a ranged weapon and less then 100% chance to walk away with any relic at all, forget the one type you need out of 10 in the drop table (but they added relics for B rotation, you say? Sure, that's why I had a 2000 cryotic run with 3 Axi relics to show for it..., would get 5 keys 100% in the old days, but those were bad old days, were they not?).

But for some reason the lucky people who get things fast like to ignore the actual odds. I would wait for them to see how it could go the other way... but there will be enough new lucky people to defend the system.

Actually its much less time then you seem to think. I don't even farm for relics directly. As I said I do syndicate missions (mostly fast ones and while I do look for medallions I usually get around 3-4 per mission since I'm not very good at finding them or just can't be bothered) and use the standing for relic packs. I don't get always new ones right away on the first day but it accumulates fairly quickly. Traces I don't really farm unless I really need them since I get them while doing ducat runs from time to time. I don't do endless fissures, I'm still traumatized from the old void :). I do hiearcon from time to time in public and usually leave at 1k with a couple of random relics, Neither recruiting nor public is as bad as people here like to claim. 

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8 minutes ago, TessaraVejgan said:

The fissure system is a vastly superior system than the old void ever was, get over it. I see some people mention T3S here, did you forget you were forced to spend 20min in it before you got to that c rotation and saw if you got the part you wanted. Now its 5-10min at most. For the fissure mission, after grinding the relic and traces and finding a group. Relics are incredibly easy to get, sure it may not be the ones you're looking for but they drop pretty much everywhere and you'll get them eventually if you are patient. Read: One every eight hours. Because that's better than one chance per 20 minutes... Even once the primes are vaulted their relics stay in your inventory which means you can farm it later at a vastly reduced drop rate as you will be unlikely to find a full group once relics are out of rotation and the prices for those primes will remain more reasonable for newer players that can't wait for unvaulting. Hell I even run into people running vaulted relics from time to time in public while farming for ducats and traces for the aforementioned reason: it would probably take hours to actually find a dedicated group. Getting prime parts has undoubtedly become much, much easier for the RNG's chosen few and the prices for prime sets and items seem to reflect that. There is no argument you could possibly make that will lead me and probably the majority of the playerbase (by which I mean the lucky few who didn't need to grind more than a couple relics for their desired parts) to believe that the old way was better. I think the real reason people here are whining about relics is because over the years they accumulated a wast collection of keys and they forgot how it was like to farm for them. But I also forgot how you didn't even actually NEED to farm for keys, since people would just host their keys for up to 3 other players who didn't need their own to get a drop. They grew complacent and lazy. Now that everyone is on equal footing they have to get out and do some leg work and it doesn't sit well with them.

corrected some typing errors

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56 minutes ago, TessaraVejgan said:

did you forget you were forced to spend 20min in it before you got to that c rotation and saw if you got the part you wanted. Now its 5-10min at most.

I remember nice sentence. 

"Before you wait 20 minutes for 100%, now you wait 5 minutes for 10%".

Of course it's not true, the drop rate was +- same, but the point is, in old void you farm for 20 minutes and you know, that this number marked chance to get item you wanted. Didn't get? nevermind, wait another twenty minute and see. It was the feeling of assurance "every 20 minutes i got a item" to keep you coming back or staying longer. Now what, you grab relic, go in to mission wait 5 minutes..you are S#&$ out of luck, better next time. Proceed to farm new relic, repeat. Like they said  "before 1 prime part 20 minutes, now 1 part 8 hours"..at best. Sure, there was very small chance to get two or more prime parts in row, but it was possible. Everyone can achieve it, but you have to stay longer. Now, it's +- impossible. Not only you and your whole squad have to own more than one specific relic, you also have to be in squad, which will stay longer or go next mission.

 

Before there was one RNG, get the part from void, because getting to rotation C was affected by you, players not RNG. (No, getting keys was not hard, because keys drop like fly's. Especially if you no life Draco, and to be fair everyone no life Draco). That's the reason why they change it to Relic system. Everyone have stockpiles of them in inventory. Also one could host the rest of the squad, for how much time they wanted.

 

Now you have two RNG. To get a relic and to get an item. Yes, we now have bigger chance to get an item we want and also choose which we want, but tell me, do you think it worthed for another layer of RNG? If you are the only one in squad with that specific relic, you will have same chance to get an item as in rotation C in old void, only now you have another layer of RNG.

Edited by JustSneaky
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2 hours ago, TessaraVejgan said:

Actually its much less time then you seem to think.

It's not what I think. It's what I feel.

You didn't read my post. I know it's long and everything... But still.

Syndicate packs.

How I'm annoyed by that topic coming up again and again... Let's do the math

20k standing for a pack of 3 random relics. 1 of them will be Neo or Axi. Those 3 relics are 3 missions with 10% chance to get a rare (if you radiant every one of them).

less then 10% chance you get an Axi you need or a Neo you need.

At MR22 I have 23k daily standing. That's about a pack and a quarter (as I went for 4 syndicates as once).

An interception syndicate mission gives 5k standing. And that's the most you can get now.

that's 1/4 of a relic pack

Now tell me, please. How would that be more efficient than Excavation?

Medallions are not only time consuming. They are supposed to be that buffer that I am supposed to use when something new comes up. If I use them constantly, there wouldn't be much to use then?

But the icing on the relic cake:

Key pack was worth the same 20k standing.

How this simple thing eludes all those people who say key farming was difficult but in the next sentence say they get relics galore I will never understand.

Nor how it eludes them that by the nature of relics you need 4 times more of them than you needed capture or MD keys if you play in the squad or 4 (which is always recommended by relic advocates).

But the most depressing thing is... you needed on average 2 times less void keys for endless missions if you wanted to play them solo for 1 full rotation. Because to get to rotation C you went through 2 A rotations and a B rotation, and got on average 2 prime parts from a 20 waves defense or 20 minutes survival.

And

3 hours ago, TessaraVejgan said:

Neither recruiting nor public is as bad as people here like to claim.

Have you seen recruiting chat? Do you understand how many relics there are now? Have you tried to get a group for any of the vaulted relics? I really don't know how it's possible to ignore a small fact that we have link functionality in the chat and search functionality in relic refinement now. Because there are so many relics, you can't possibly keep in mind what is where.

But it gets better. Did you know that vaulted relics don't have links?

There are so many relic types already, people miss a chance to select one in endless from time to time. Because 16 seconds is not enough to browse 2 pages of relics for one era with refined relics bloating the list even more...

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I came across another relic issue, in my endless quest to get the 1st of the 2 venka gauntlets I managed to get both the relics and the traces after gruesome farms where people wanted activated multiple excavators without being able to protect them and the smeeta not wanting to cooperate, so I head to the recruit chat and wait for a host for a Neo V4 rad, and I waited, and I waited, and I kept on waiting, and the memory of that time I was tring to farm the nikana blade for the syndicate came to my mind were i spent a few days without finding a party, just like I can't find one for a few weeks for the Nekros chassis (and solo isn't cutting it). 

Now everyone is farming ember and frost, and the fresh primes are abandoned, finding a party for something that isn't the absolute last stuff released is a pain.

As time goes on I miss the old void more than ever, hek one of these days I found one friend of mine that took a break from WF and decided to return and he said this system is easily the most grinding thing he ever saw in this game, another friend returned yesterday and today he was already complaining about how this system was thrash designed for nothing else but to force you into the PA. He was burnt after playing on overwatch for a long time and decided to return to WF and this system burnt his patience in less than 2 days... 

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11 hours ago, DEATHLOK said:

No. This is yet another example of whitewashing an exploitative design.

Specific relics are too difficult to obtain by design. After months of play, I've not managed to build a Vauban Prime Chassis, because I cannot collect enough AXI V1 Relics. The few I had from the conversion process are gone, and I've picked up only one more in the past six months. This is by design.

The new system is designed to increase grind and frustration, with the hope players will be more likely to make cash purchases. The old system did not punish the persistent enough, so the new system was contrived as a replacement.

Yes, it is easy to gather parts you already have and no longer need.

However, and contrary to the fantasies posted above, it is monumentally difficult to build new parts you need, because specific Relics are too difficult to farm. Again, I've gotten one AXI V1 Relic in six months. One. I need nine more to have a decent chance of building the chassis I need. At this rate, I'll have it in five years.

Relic drops need to be increased, spread about the various maps and missions. Trash mods need to be removed from the drop tables of high-level missions. If that's done, perhaps DE has more interest in "fun" than has been demonstrated over the past year.

Your one experience with AXi V1 relics isn't proof. Its anecdotal. I by contrast have had no issues getting the relics I need including Axi V1's. So whose anecdotal evidence is representative of the actual drop rates and difficulty?

The old system punished the persistent a heap, if not more then the current one. All my Christmases came at once since the new system hit. With the old system I'd be stuck in the void.... still grinding....

Regardless of all that though, even if their was hard proof the new system was worse, I'd still take it in a heart beat, because at least i'm not stuck in the bloody void.

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