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Too soon for secondary Riven Mods


Xekrin
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I want them too, let me just get that out of the way.  I use my secondary weapons sometimes more than primary in missions.  I feel they have a lot more variety to offer that primary weapons lack, at least for me.  I do want to see secondary riven mods come into the game.

That said, I feel it is way too soon.  I know it will be a month at least, maybe two before it happens but as it stands now the riven mechanics still feels very rough around the edges.

Many people want the ability to lock a stat against rolls, that desire will double with secondaries.  There are still stats being rolled onto weapons that simply cannot use them.  Panthera with crit chance/damage?  Sentinel weapons with ammo capacity increases?  Sentinel weapons at all??? (kidding sentinels lovers, calm down).  Simulors with puncture damage?

I know a lot of these 'useless' stats can be considered dead weight and becomes incentive to roll again but it feels pointless to have them there in the first place.  You get a negative to multishot, that you want to reroll.  You get +172% slash damage on synapse, you stare at it blankly and wonder how and why it ever got there in the first place.

Some negative stats can be dealt with, managed or overcome based on the other stats of the weapon or mod.  These 'empty stats' are just a waste of a roll.  There are tons of options, we don't need extras cluttering things up.  


Not to mention stats like 190% status chance increase on a strong disposition weapon that has a base of 5%.  Bad roll? Not if the base were already 20% it wouldn't be, , but more to the point it completely clashes with the reason riven mods exist.  To 'breathe new life into old unused weapons, providing players with a fresh way to use old favorites' or some such paraphrased intent.

If I got a roll of negative crit and positive status on a weapon that is normally crit it literally changes that weapon into a status weapon and creates a different perspective on how that weapon is used.  That is, if the status increase actually made a difference, which on most weapons it doesn't because the base stats are simply too low to matter.

Right now this isn't providing us with new ways to use old weapons, its a buff for weapons but in a generalized way.  The only way the mods make a weapon better is if it compliments their current stats, if they conflict it must be rerolled.  That doesn't feel like much to me.  So far the best weapons stay the best, the old weapons get a little better but only if the stats of the mod match the stats of the weapon.


That rant went a little long, sorry, in conclusion and TL:DR I think we need some more time to smooth the edges of primary rivens before moving on to secondary.  

Thanks.

Edited by Xekrin
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Even acquiring or rerolling a riven once is not the smallest of feats, I agree that it shouldn't be such a slam against useless stats. Someone posted one with something like -105% damage. What even can you do with that? 

Honestly IMO they shouldn't even have rivens for the "best" weapons. If the purpose is to make old weapons better and fresh and such, why can a simulor still roll a good riven? It's just powercreep. 
 

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I agree with everything in your OP but also want to add on my opinion that the testing phase alone for rifle rivens hasn't gone on nearly long enough to be branching out, especially to be branching out to the extent of "all secondaries". This is especially so due to RNG. I haven't actually gotten to do any proper testing or playing with Riven mods yet because of how rare they are to get, combined with how little the chance is that you'll get a mod for a weapon you're capable or interested in trying new things with. I know from reading the forums that a fair number of people are like this. We need more time as a playerbase to test these things before we extend them into other broad categories, because the more we widen the category the more painful it'll be to retroactively change how rivens work once you've got them on your entire loadout.

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Much like has been said before. I believe that some rivens need some work on (magazine capacity for bows anyone, or it just me?) to iron out the bugs. That said, I DO like Rivens, quite a bit. They are interesting and they can turn forgotten weapons into something you'll feel like picking up again (Miter, for example). And when it comes to my inner munchkin... just gimme an Akstiletto or Afuris Riven. Or Atomos. Or, oh my, a Spira Riven.

Still, I have to agree, it's WAY too early. Many of my clan-mates, despite daily sorties, only have 2 or 3 of them -and none of which are for a weapon they usually bring with them.

If Secondary Rivens are to be a thing, we need another way to acquire Rifle Rivens as well. The Token system that has been discussed a LOT is one way. Another way, would be as an Alert reward. Of course, there's also the Event Rewards that can include Rifle Rivens (for example, the Grineer/Corpus invasion counters) or even new Events could provide Riven mods as opposed to Exilus Adapters (who are pretty easy to acquire in-game). Putting Rivens in Invasions would be a terrible idea (I know people who ran upwards of 20 runs in Invasions just to prevent other people from getting a Catalyst, imagine what would happen if it was a Riven instead).

My main point against completely removing Rifle Rivens at the moment is very simple; supply and demand. Many people want Rivens right now (especially for weapons such as Cernos). However, much in the same way as the Old Primes (i.e. those WITHOUT relics) have absurdly high prices (Rhino for 450, Ember for 2,4k before her unvaulting) it would drive people into a buying frenzy with Rifle Rivens becoming unavailable. The economy would become drastically unwelcome to whomever doesn't have hundreds upon hundreds of plat to buy them.

The most logical, to me at least, way to do this would be; put Secondary Rivens in the Sortie, yes, BUT only if there is another way to acquire Rifle Rivens in the game in some other way at the same time. Secondary Rivens will  have a high pricing, of course, but Rifle Rivens won't be absurdly overpriced due to their limited availability.

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The worst part of this is that these are all points originally made in the feedback threads they created and has never really been addressed.  Aside from allowing us to keep the current roll and reducing kuva costs not much has changed.  I didn't remember seeing that tidbit about secondary rivens when I first glanced at the overview, but by god there it is.   My first thought is "Yay, yet another layer of RNG to punch through to even get a riven mod for a wep id like it for."

I agree that given the rarity, that I have observed, of rivens it is highly suspect that there has been enough testing to reasonably branch out.  Just so we are clear my observed chance of riven obtainment comes from me and my friend completing sorties, both together and separate.  It places riven acquisition around 1 every 13 - 14 days. 

This is also in conjunction with having no idea what they intend to do, if anything, with what appears to be a new character/cephalon as per https://warframe.com/thewarwithin/rivenmods

All in all If it were my project, I personally wouldn't expand it yet because i'm not satisfied they fulfill the original intent.  

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11 hours ago, Xekrin said:

TL:DR I think we need some more time to smooth the edges of primary rivens before moving on to secondary.  

My thoughts exactly.

Riven system needs a lot of polishing before expanding it onto other weapon types. Reroll costs, negative stats, useless stats like IPS on pure elemental weapons... It all needs changes.

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