Rhino 8.3: Feedback Thread

[Vazkro]

I currently really love playing Rhino, hes not the godmode warframe he seemed to be at launch but he is very enjoyable and has a well-rounded kit :D

[hallfrom]

Before: Rhino Charge, Iron Skin, Radial Blast, Rhino Stomp

 

Rhino Stomp + Radial Blast combined: Rhino Stomp now damages enemies ( 150 300 500 800 )

Scott's comments:

It didn't make sense to have two powers that had mostly the same result. So combining these two powers created a true ultimate for Rhino.

There is a surveillance room duels. Stomp rhino has more efficient than other skills varfreym. In fact, any battle with rhino ends if you use this skill. Understood as the ability to ignore armor, has more than 800 damage (520 shield +300 hp for 1 impact). It is also able to immobilize more than 3 seconds.

It does not seem that the compartment is too much?

[K1LLZ0NE]

I have been playing Rhino a lot recently and I have to say, I am seriously disappointed.  Lets breakdown each of Rhino's abilities:

 

Rhino Charge:  A less useful version of Slash Dash.  It does less damage, and has a shorter duration.  Sure, it does have a knockdown effect, but this is very situational. 

 

Iron Skin:  While useful early in the game it tapers of dramatically.  Even with Focus it's effect is negligible at high level content.  The aggro function is more of a hindrance than a help.  All you can do is just hide behind a rock and wait for Nova to vaporize them all.

 

Roar:  This skill was a nice idea but is still lacking.  For the cost it just isn't worth it.  Especially when you compare it to Nova's ult, which only costs 25 extra energy (on a Warframe that has 75 more energy capacity) and gives double the effect that Roar does while also slowing the target down,  exploding and dealing 800 damage on death, and lasts 5 times longer than Roar.

 

Rhino Stomp:  I have to admit, this ability has become more useful since the old days, but is still lacking.  It costs 100 of Rhino's 150 energy pool, which means Rhino can't spam it like other Warframes.  The 800 damage is nice, but it seems like the damage decreases the farther away the target is, and that takes away from some of its usefulness.  Now let us compare Rhino Stomp and Bastille, Vauban's #3 ability.  It costs 25 less energy (again on a Warframe that has 75 more energy capacity), has a longer duration, and will affect enemies that enter after the cast.

 

These are my thoughts and opinions about each of Rhino's abilities.  I have been playing Rhino a LOT recently, and I played him a freaking TON before he got "balanced".  I know a lot of what peoples concerns were and why they nerfed him.  Now I'm going to tell you what changes I think should be made.

 

Rhino Charge:  Honestly, this isn't a bad ability, but it is really annoying that it is pretty much Slash Dash.  I would like to see maybe a new ability, but failing that, just keep it the way it is.

 

Iron Skin:  Okay, this will be where I make the most drastic changes.  I would make this ability Rhino's #3 and return the old functionality of Iron Skin (in other words, full invincibility with a timer) and keep the aggro function.  Doing this will stop people from being able to spam it and go entire minuets with invincibility.

 

Roar:  This should be moved to Rhino's #2 as well as having a minor boost in effect.  Make it a 75% damage buff and a 20 second duration.  Keep in mind that Nova's Molecular Prime gives 100% damage buff, lasts 60 seconds, slows down enemies considerably, has a huge range, and explodes dealing 800 damage to anything within range.  For just 50 extra energy on a Warframe that has a 225 energy capacity as apposed to Rhino's measly 150.

 

Rhino Stomp:  I would like it if Rhino Stomp dealt 800 damage to all enemies, not just the ones closest to Rhino, and I would like it to create like a distorted time "bubble".  So that enemies that enter the "bubble" after the ability is cast will also be slowed down.  

 

Now, I am sure people won't want my suggestions for Rhino's Iron Skin.  But let me try and justify it.  Lets look at Frost for a second.  His Snowglobe grants 100% full damage protection, not just for himself, but for his entire TEAM.  Not only that, but anything that gets inside is slowed down exponentially (One of my favorite strategies is to use a melee with a knockdown jump attack on enemies inside Snowglobe.  Acts just like Rhino Stomp).  Sure, its not mobile.  Meaning it is only in a specific area.  But it lasts 30 seconds!  Is 10 seconds of invincibility for one, moving individual REALLY that OP when compared to 30 seconds of invincibility for 4 stationary people along with an immense slowdown effect on any enemies that enter the globe.  This is just comparing ability to ability.  There are other balancing factors in this game.  For instance, lets look at Rhino as a Warframe, not necessarily his abilities.  He and Frost are the slowest Warframes by a good bit, and both are on the worst tier of energy pool (meaning they only have 150 total energy where others have 225).  Does having a higher armor value and more shields really make up for that?  NO!  Rhino is my favorite Warframe, not because of his abilities, but because of his look, but I HATE playing him now because there are sooo many Warframes that are sooo much better!  I believe that the suggestions I've made will balance Rhino with Warframes like Nova, Vauban, and Frost.

 

P.S.  Sorry for the wall of text :P

 

TLDR  C'mon, don't be lazy.  Read the whole thing.  You know you wanna! 

[-Kittens-]

 

There is a surveillance room duels. Stomp rhino has more efficient than other skills varfreym. In fact, any battle with rhino ends if you use this skill. Understood as the ability to ignore armor, has more than 800 damage (520 shield +300 hp for 1 impact). It is also able to immobilize more than 3 seconds.

It does not seem that the compartment is too much?

 

 

 

You never balance from or for PVP when it's not designed that way in the first place.

[Jamescell]

Iron Skin does not scale. Good job Scott.

[MrWarframeGuy]

I really like that...but the only thing i want to change is the Iron skin visual effect on rhino...is so ugly...

[tortilladude]

Hi! Tortilladude here! My main frame is Rhino. I like his skills. I don't think we need modification to his Iron Skin. Rhino should feel a little destructible. Just a little. I would not want to be standing in front of 10 level80 ancients with my face tanking them. I like when i can be taken down with 3 hits sometimes from ancients (high level). It gives difficulty.

 

If i could make a change it would be with skills' beneficial mods. I would like to equip more tanky mods than power-related mods like duration, range, efficiency, strength. Like Stretch, its only good for Stomp. Continuity (and Constitution) is only good for Roar and Charge. Focus is not good for Roar. I would make Rhinos skills to be more synergized. I mean if Focus would affect all skills, or making Charge to use Stretch instead of Continuity (and Const.) so i would equip Steel Fiber. Steel F. should be one of the main mods for Rhino but i am not using it at the moment. If for example i would not have to equip Cont. and Const. (the two duration mods), i would feel more like a "tank". Rhino has 10 slots (not including AURA), 4 of them skills, and 5 of them as skill-modifying mods. it leaves me with 1 free slot and its shield if i want my skills to be really helpful. If Stomps range is too low i stun some enemies but the ones running for me back there will just run through. If Roars duration is too low its not worth using it.

I would make skills to benefit from more of the same type of mods. If i equip Stomp, Ironskin, Roar, and if i need them to be worthy i need to equip 5 mods. If Charge and Roar would use Stretch instead of Continuity and Constitution for range and duration, then i could equip for example a Steel Fiber and Fast Deflection.

 

Yep, Iron Skin could use a better visual effect in my opinion too. And i dont care about Iron Skins hardcap :)

 

Rhino is badass right now by the way but i know not anyone has maxed out mods. These are the stuff that came out of my mind after playing roughly 225 hours with this character.

 

Bestest devs of all time i love this game!

[Stormganzo]

Hi! Tortilladude here! My main frame is Rhino. I like his skills. I don't think we need modification to his Iron Skin. Rhino should feel a little destructible. Just a little. I would not want to be standing in front of 10 level80 ancients with my face tanking them. I like when i can be taken down with 3 hits sometimes from ancients (high level). It gives difficulty.

 

If i could make a change it would be with skills' beneficial mods. I would like to equip more tanky mods than power-related mods like duration, range, efficiency, strength. Like Stretch, its only good for Stomp. Continuity (and Constitution) is only good for Roar and Charge. Focus is not good for Roar. I would make Rhinos skills to be more synergized. I mean if Focus would affect all skills, or making Charge to use Stretch instead of Continuity (and Const.) so i would equip Steel Fiber. Steel F. should be one of the main mods for Rhino but i am not using it at the moment. If for example i would not have to equip Cont. and Const. (the two duration mods), i would feel more like a "tank". Rhino has 10 slots (not including AURA), 4 of them skills, and 5 of them as skill-modifying mods. it leaves me with 1 free slot and its shield if i want my skills to be really helpful. If Stomps range is too low i stun some enemies but the ones running for me back there will just run through. If Roars duration is too low its not worth using it.

I would make skills to benefit from more of the same type of mods. If i equip Stomp, Ironskin, Roar, and if i need them to be worthy i need to equip 5 mods. If Charge and Roar would use Stretch instead of Continuity and Constitution for range and duration, then i could equip for example a Steel Fiber and Fast Deflection.

 

Yep, Iron Skin could use a better visual effect in my opinion too. And i dont care about Iron Skins hardcap :)

 

Rhino is badass right now by the way but i know not anyone has maxed out mods. These are the stuff that came out of my mind after playing roughly 225 hours with this character.

 

Bestest devs of all time i love this game!

Sorry but i dont agree totally, i agree qhen you say that rhino must be a little destroyable, JUST a little :P but when you starting to face level 110+ monsters, the skin just last few seconds, and the more the level progress, and less the skin last.  Compared to other absorbtion damage skill, the iron skill is the worst at very high level. I like how skin work (capped damage without time limit) but i also think that the skin need to adapt the hardcap to the enemy level and the difficulty mission.(not god at low levels, and not paper at high)

[tortilladude]

And another thing came up today doing these survival alerts, Iron skin could implement a mechanic where after activated, you would be imuune to everything (invincible) for 4 seconds, then the damage cap would kick in and count from there. Mod would start with 1 second of immunity, last level coud give 3, 4 or 5 seconds immunity. The damage thresholds would stay the same. That way we could avoid popping Iron skin and losing it after a second under heavy fire.

[xXHeadHuntXx]

Unacceptable. Any hard-cap will always be useless at high levels - a fixed amount of damage absorbed does not scale. Are we going to see the cap increased every time new, harder content is introduced, or can we actually see this skill function properly like Ember's does at the moment.

 

One excellent suggestion I saw was to make Iron Skin act like the Armour stat, but for shields, and simultaneously cause all damage dealt to be dealt to shields [no poison bypass], whereby activating IS would buff your max shields [either a % or flat increase], it would reduce damage dealt to shields [85% reduction at max rank, no focus], and then this effect lasted as long as you had shields left, but shields would not regenerate. Upon reaching 0 shields, IS deactivates and shields are returned to normal at max capacity.

I disagree, as a high ranked rhino myself, I can tell you that the hard cap is itself an improvement to rhinos already powerful ability. It makes the game more challenging when u have a limited amount of damage prevention, plus no timer means you can be running around with(depending on the level) that amount of damage reduction. And as for the Iron skin acting as a amour stat, yes that could be a possibility, but i much rather have two shields than one.

[jrkong]

I disagree, as a high ranked rhino myself, I can tell you that the hard cap is itself an improvement to rhinos already powerful ability. It makes the game more challenging when u have a limited amount of damage prevention, plus no timer means you can be running around with(depending on the level) that amount of damage reduction. And as for the Iron skin acting as a amour stat, yes that could be a possibility, but i much rather have two shields than one.

Somewhat, while I'm a fan of the adaptive cap idea I'm fine with the hard cap as it is. I still think the ability to recast and refresh Iron Skin is necessary since you can tell when your skin is almost gone but you can't refresh it on your own terms meaning you'll still be left defenseless for a bit as you recast your Iron Skin after it wears off.

[Phoenix86]

i dont know you... but with 1290 shield and 805 hp i'm fine if Iron Skin wears off for a few seconds... LOL

[BIGGEReatsYOU]

I would like to see rhino charge act as a speed buff after its initial effect, being the slowest warframe, I sometimes find it difficult to keep up with fast teammates as I don't see a benefit to slotting a speed mod instead of my current mod set-up. Vanguard helps, but it still feels too slow and doing anything fast with Thrak equipped is out of the question.

 

Iron skin is without a doubt less effective on higher levels, I would suggest a short term damage absorption followed by a longer term damage reduction, and a new texture the current one looks lumpy and messy, I personally like the spiked version.

 

Roar doesn't last as long as I would like and against higher level enemies doesn't feel like anything changed. I would suggest instead of 50% damage increase, 2x damage with maybe a 12.5%-35% armor ignore and/or puncture to better balance it with like abilities.

 

Stomp a slightly larger damage radius with a larger knockback/ knockdown and slow radius affecting any enemies that enter it.

[__Kanade__]

I just crafted Rhino today and now proudly have him as my avatar, this frame's a beast, it's my first time using him ever in Warframe so I can't really give any input or feedback on the old Rhino.

 

All I'll say though is that I've seen enough old Rhino's to know that the visuals for Iron Skin looked alot better on Rhino than on new Rhino. I don't like the bumps of silver that star appearing over his body, it doesn't look right.

 

I also didn't know til recently that Radial Blast was replaced with Rhino Roar, is it because it felt too much like a mini Rhino Stomp? It looked like a cool ability seeing him slam the ground with his fist ( actually prefer that animation over slamming the ground with his leg, hitting the ground with that kinda force with his fist makes him look more badass ).

 

If they do add more abilities for frames ( they mentioned that in an earlier livestream ). Would it be possible to see Radial Blast make a return as an alternate ability?

Edited September 5, 2013 by __Kanade__