Rhino 8.3: Feedback Thread

[_Rue_]

:) i like the new buff. and the the other changes. Can't wait to try this too.!

[Thaumatos]

Rhino is no longer the "tank" of the game. People will just have to get over that. But something people need to quit complaining about. If you want to tank, there are other tanks. Not every frame should be appealing to every player, thats why there's many choices.

See what you've started Scott? For shame. People are already arguing Rhino's lack of heaviness as the "new direction".

[Grodgen]

I think the next step DE is to make a buff timer. A lot of the things we field have no timers or ways of judging when a something is going to drop. Same with the sentinels. We NEED a health bar for them and we need the player health bars moved so they are clouding chat. Those few things should be taken in consideration for update 9. Hope this feedback helps and TY for the giant hotfix.

[Thaumatos]

Love the Rhino changes. Iron Skin is finally balanced for 95% of the game. A new ability that will make Rhino super-desirable in end-game material. Sweet. ... And finally, combining two abilities into a real ult? Hell yes.

 

Great job on Rhino changes.

And at the 5% of the game that people actually play at once they've maxed their gear out, IS is still pretty useless.

[FatalionPanic-EGT-]

Sorry for posting this here again but it just fits... and since Rhino is the only Warframe that has the ability to Taunt and hold aggro... :

 

With the current change there is a NEED of a combination of Trinity AND Rhino for a tank scenario - this way you won't just bring either one and GG.

The new DMG buff makes Rhino a very attractive addition to the groups and only a good tank in combination with Trinity as a healer.

 

I couldn't even remotely imagine this to happen, It's awesome - Great job DE I tip my hat to you!

 

<3

Edited July 5, 2013 by FatalionPanic

[Grodgen]

Rhino is no longer the "tank" of the game. People will just have to get over that. But something people need to quit complaining about. If you want to tank, there are other tanks. Not every frame should be appealing to every player, thats why there's many choices.

 

"Damage" is a small factor in the grand scheme of things. Stagger resistance is a very critical tool. And something you won't get from Excalibur.

 

But as for the damage, the block is useful for over 99% of the content currently in the game. That being T3 void missions, every single boss, every non-defense mission, and every defense mission up until wave 50+. I'd say that it's enough content to warrant a skill slot. Given that his other skills are all very useful even at "endgame." And given how many other skills in the game exist that are equally "useless" endgame(aka any flat damage skill, etc).

 

 

Either of these suggestions would be fine(well, a new animation is actually pretty necessary), but it's definitely strong in its current form.

Rhino is a tank He is an offensive tank where is Frost is a defensive tank. Saying he isn't one just shows the community you can't read to save your life. His play style involves that he is actively fighting in the front. Frost is suited to defending a position rather than pushing. These changes are great for him, the Rhino Roar is gonna make him THE offensive tank of the game. Really liking what DE has done with him.

[Namacyst]

After some testing.. my thougts about the changes...

 

Did Xini, did Roar + Stomp combo with focus mod on Ancients.. up to Wave 10 they died instantly. 800 damage seems like a nerf compared to radial blast but it now ignores enemy armor. So basically on low waves Stomp kills everything... in later waves it cc's everything that survives. Sounds good but compared to Radial Blast for 75 Energy that knocked down ..imho too expensive...even more regarding that Rhino can use every single Power mod to some extend (I run streamline, continuity, stretch, focus, redirection and vitality and dont want to miss out on any of them..therefor no flow and only 150 energy which worked fine before but doesn't anymore).

 

Iron Skin is still.. meh.. 1200 flat absorb is useless in higher levels even with recasts (energy problems.. see above). What i like to see is that Iron Skin converts shields into health for it's duration (which should be reinstated at 15 seconds), adding it to your base health and increases rhinos armor value by an amount so the armor would equal a damage reduction of 50% without more mods (like steel fiber & focus). Damage taken would be substracted first of the added shield value and base health last. After Iron skin ends Rhino will have full shields and Iron Skin will have a 5 second cooldown until it can be used again to prevent abuse.. during that time the taunt will still be active. With this change one could make Rhino really tanky if enough mods are picked to do so and push his damage reduction to embers level with way more effective HP (Full tank build would be Redirection, Vitality, Focus, Steel Fiber, continuity and Iron Skin of course... taking away more than half of rhinos slots and therefor limiting his damaging capability).

 

Roar is.. ok.. not fitting for Rhino but awesome since it increases ALL damage, Guns, Melee and Abilities alike. Range indicators when cast and buff icons or viduals would be nice though.

[r0ckwolf]

loving this update, especially since you seem to have started making more group buffs and viable team abilties, which is awesome and was much needed in the game! keep on doing that.^^

[-CK-]

amazing update to rhino!!! made me dust him off and im glad i did, although 1 thing i would like to see is some kind of indicator for the new skill because i cant tell the range to effectivly help my fellow team mates. also its unclear what it actually does. melee increase? gun dmg? skill? can we have a little clarity on this as it seems like a very useful tool.

 

thanks again for this massive buff and to every1 complaining about iron skin its not really bothering me as i formad rhino 6 times and have all his buffers maxed and i havent even thought twice about equipping that skill, try polorizing him and you might change your mind ^_^

 

 

frymyte

[OOLuigiOo]

Radial Blast was a damn good spam skill so since the ult absorbed it, it should be 75 energy to cast it without streamline.

[Thaumatos]

Its not just high-end Defense missions that IS will be useless. They're adding a "nightmare" mode to all prior missions.

That means IS will be useless for anything outside of leveling up.

This shows one of two things; either they don't know how much damage mobs do at higher levels, or they don't care.

Its got to be one or the other.

Oh and to all those people saying Rhino is an "offensive" tank, that would make sense if he actually took less damage while being offensive. Currently, by your hair-brained definition of an "offensive" tank, Excalibur does a much better job by being 100% immune to damage while using Slash Dash to melt monsters. Go take a few minutes out of your day to learn some logic (and Warframe) before you start troll-posting against others with a theory that has more faults in it than the state of California.

Edit:

Just before you get any ideas...

Rhino Description:

"RHINO is the heaviest Warframe. Combining both offensive and defensive capabilities."

Frost Description:

"By channeling the moisture and vapor in the surrounding environment, FROST creates formidable defenses and lethal attacks from sub zero conditions."

Find where one is more offensive or defensive than the other...besides the part where Rhino is clearly described as the HEAVIEST WARFRAME.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Thaumatos

[WarHounDS]

Iron Skin: 400, 600, 800, 1200 damage caps, removed timer.

 

The main problem is if we go against  high end defense missions this skill become kinda useless BUT for any other mission  is very nice , ( just have to use other warframe for endless defense)  

 

Rhino Roar: NEW POWER: Radial damage buff for all players within range (10%,15%,25%,50%)

 

this one need more improvement like having an aura or something   around the buffed players + rhino this is just a suggestion but  right now i dont know who gets the buff and who not and we dont know the range of the power either or even works with strech? 

 

The  radial stomp . have a problem or its maybe not a problem but when i used it once after  i wasnt able to use it  because  it says power in use  maybe i was the only getting this but i wasnt able to use it  about until end of mission 

 

And thank you rhino really had to get some love ^^

 

and love the new rhino charge animation  its awesome :))

 

on Rhino Iron skin : maybe a second thought on this one like many frames we don't use all ability's  in defense missions either  so we still have the option to "discard" this one and use something else for it or change the polarity one of the skill slots if we dont wana use it  thats is one of the power of being able to format our warframes but since i got all the warframes i don't feel the need of that i added 1 more polarity to rhino   and i still like the frame but i wont use as main  since i have finish formatting other frames too weapons too :D but  we have options to change   polarity's so  feel free to do that and  if u know how time your rhino stompy stompy   it can be very  strong force  :) u might try different approach or different warframe thats why we have them ^^

Edited July 5, 2013 by WarHounDS

[Turtleshellon]

Excuse me as I shed a tear of Joy. 

[palantir]

yes roar does affect stomp.. so you want to tell me i should pay 175!! energy to do 1200 dmg ? ember does more with focus, so does mag, so does sayrn, so does banshee, so does excalibur.. blablabla ... 100 more energy t do 200 more dmg then before is a nerf. hands down.

 

Please, have you use the Rhino Stomp? It's range is gargantuan! It seems it's doubled at least! I can' tell by how much but still affects the biggest area of any uber power I have seen until now.

 

And by all means please add the Focus bonus on it's 1200 damage, and remember that Roar helps everyone in squad. If check out how much damage a modded Despair gives affected by Roar...Tears of joy

 

Also if you are going to Quote me, quote everything I said. I do have a problem with energy costs! A little review wouldn't hurt, but Rhino it is lots of fun again, as far I have tested today!

 

And again you complain about the DE fixed idea of number, yet you say Excalibur does more damage, and it does, to a limited number of targets, with no CC effect and limited range and wall protection...

 

You're all fixed in the number and have absolutely no idea how to use then. All you can do is nag. Please test the new Rhino, it's a great improvement I can say since I play with him since closed beta, I cry when they nerfed him, and I am understand how difficult is to make a character well balanced (I am a programmer)  and DE is in the right direction to make Rhino at least relevant and fun to play.

 

Fun, games are about that, not make one shot one kill, maybe more, on level 100 defense maps, geez.

 

P.S: You guys really need to learn how to read better!

[TheNecrow]

Absolutely miffed at the fact that stomp and smash were fused. If they were fused just to make space for roar, this was a terrible decision, since the card system is flexible enough for us to select whether we want to use a power or not.

[fishworshipper]

I think I am still disapointed about the Iron skin

1200 or even 1200 * 1.3 = 1560 is still not work when I facing a group of high level mobs

so WHY, why ember still more tanky than rhino?

btw, I am interested to try the new power

and I REALLY REALLY hope to have a balance between Ember-overheat and Rhino-Iron skin

 

This is not the Iron skin I want, or we want

Because Rhino isn't a tank.

He was never truly meant to even be a tank, he's just big.

Sure he can take a hit, that doesn't mean he has to instantly be cast into the tank role, that's just stupid.

Absolutely miffed at the fact that stomp and smash were fused. If they were fused just to make space for roar, this was a terrible decision, since the card system is flexible enough for us to select whether we want to use a power or not.

I don't get why you're pissed about a damage buff to Rhino Stomp and another free ability slot.

Is it because you already sold/fused/otherwise disposed of your free Rhino Stomp?

Edited July 5, 2013 by fishworshipper

[winterau]

Before: Rhino Charge, Iron Skin, Radial Blast, Rhino Stomp

 

After:

 

Iron Skin: 400, 600, 800, 1200 damage caps, removed timer.

 

Scott's comments:

Ah Iron Skin, this power has been tricky. I think the dual damage cap and timer made it hard to understand how the power was wearing off. So I removed the timer and left it as a pure damage sink. I also increased the damage caps to help with high end missions.

 

Does Scott (as a designer) really think that a flat cap scales? It feels like Steve came up with a (IMO pretty terrible) quick fix to the previous (IMO pretty terrible) nerf to Iron Skin and now Scott is fixated on it as the only solution.

 

It is terrible because it doesn't scale. It is also inconsistent with powers like Link and Snow Globe which provide 100% damage immunity for the duration.

 

At the very least, Scott as the designer should be consistent with how powers scale. If he can't do that... why is he the lead designer?

[VScipii26]

I find it juuust a bit weird to give the tank, even if it is the offensive tank, a pure buff ability.
I definitely see that use and how it all fits in, and it really makes him slightly more relevant.

It certainly is a good step in the right direction, and with the knowledge that you want to add more abilities, I smell a wonderfully rework and excellent Mighty Glacier type character.

But do remember your design goals!

[JBoat]

I am still playing around with the new rhino stomp but honestly, I am missing the hell out of radial blast. That was my favorite skill for him other the Iron skin. Loved the quick cast, visual animation and even though stomp has the slow time effect on enemies, I loved the knock back from radial blast. Saved my &amp;#&#33; a bunch of time during defense missions, knocking toxic ancients away from the pod. Also the 25 less energy cost was good for a frame with low energy to begin with and it would make mooks explode. Well see though. Its still early and I do like the other changes.

Edited July 5, 2013 by JBoat

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

Iron Skin is still bad. Seriously, just give us old Iron Skin and add some cooldown to prevent spam and that's it! Optional its cost may be increased to 65 power.

[Ganpot]

 

Well if that was so and is still so there you have it, make Iron Skin be cast-able (close to?) instant and voila a very useful skill!

 

btw - with the timer being removed it should be possible to re-cast Iron Skin before it's dmg soaking capacities are reached which would cover a pretty quick re-fresh rate of the 1,2k "shield" since it won't say "Power is currently in use" (or similar anymore) - right?

 

 

To be honest, even with an instant cast time the power still wouldn't be useful at high levels.  The last time I used Iron Skin was the artifact weekend event, and after wave 15 (against Grineer) Iron Skin broke in just over 1 second.  Even if this buff allows it to last 2-3 seconds, what's the point?  That isn't enough time to get to cover (usually) or deal any meaningful damage before you have to recast Iron Skin.  Not to mention that you'll be burning through your entire energy pool at an extreme rate (150 energy would last less than 10 seconds). 

 

I don't know whether players can recast the ability while it's still active....  I'll have to test that and report back.  It still wouldn't make the power any better at high levels (the shield wouldn't last long enough), but it would help at lower levels. 

[Namacyst]

I am still playing around with the new rhino stomp but honestly, I am missing the hell out of radial blast. That was my favorite skill for him other the Iron skin. Loved the quick cast, visual animation and even though stomp has the slow time effect on enemies, I loved the knock back from radial blast. Saved my &amp;#&#33; a bunch of time during defense missions, knocking toxic ancients away from the pod. Also the 25 less energy cost was good for a frame with low energy to begin with and it would make mooks explode.

^this so much

[fishworshipper]

I find it juuust a bit weird to give the tank, even if it is the offensive tank, a pure buff ability.

I definitely see that use and how it all fits in, and it really makes him slightly more relevant.

It certainly is a good step in the right direction, and with the knowledge that you want to add more abilities, I smell a wonderfully rework and excellent Mighty Glacier type character.

But do remember your design goals!

He isn't a tank.

Frost is a tank, Rhino is an assistant in the best way possible.

1. He can get around the battlefield quickly with Rush and Rhino Charge.

2. He can keep the heat off your teammates and lure enemies into a single concentrated spot.

3. Damage buff. Freaking awesome.

4. Radial blast of 800 damage, and any enemy that DOESN'T die instantly is stunned. Bosses included.

[Hixlysss]

The way, I see it at least, is that they combined Radial Blast and Rhino Stomp to be more effective at higher levels. If it doesn't kill, which it wont at higher levels, it will stun them for a certain time. The whole thing about Iron Skin is...Immune to crowd control, Can't be stunned, can't be poisoned, CAN'T BE ENERGY DRAINED BY DISRUPTORS. Nothing can TOUCH rhino with Iron skin, if it has TOO much damage resistance then it just becomes way OP.

[Thaumatos]

He isn't a tank.

Frost is a tank, Rhino is an assistant in the best way possible.

1. He can get around the battlefield quickly with Rush and Rhino Charge.

2. He can keep the heat off your teammates and lure enemies into a single concentrated spot.

3. Damage buff. Freaking awesome.

4. Radial blast of 800 damage, and any enemy that DOESN'T die instantly is stunned. Bosses included.

Once again, a post to be printed in its individuality and hung over Scott's monitor.

People are going this route now apparently. Iron Skin's obnoxiousness has caused people to lose all logical thought.

1. Other frames do that much more quickly, Excalibur does it while immune to damage

2. That's called holding agro...its what tanks do in games where tanks exist...logic ftw

3. AoE support spell means no tank? ... o...kay...

4. Stunning is a primarily defensive move, and seeing as how he can even stun a boss...yeah.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Thaumatos