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Lawsuits, Founders, and Legality


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3 hours ago, AerinSol said:

It did mention the western part.

You should read the thread again. It wasn't made to change anything but gather information.

I'm sure someone will sue. Under any basis even if it is a ridiculous one. As for the Lato prime in China someone brought up and poked fun at it. The details were that DERebecca confirmed that they didn't know about it and they would start investigating themselves. This has assured at least everyone on the forums that they should wait. I say everyone since as you(whoever it was; I'm not quoting anyone else again) sarcastically mentioned, they haven't sued. 

The exchanged it with reaper prime instead if memory serves.

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9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Onyx Guarrd said:

I doubt DE would get sued by anyone. What are the odds of the players actually winning, come on now. Even if DE did lose, it's not going to be a major loss to them. Would people leave? Probably, but not enough for it to be a problem.

Image result for never ever doubt what nobody is sure about

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1 hour ago, --GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO-- said:

What amazes me people are clamoring at DE to get their hands on Excalibur Prime... one of the ugliest designs out there. Regular old Excalibur has way more going for him than Excal P.

For me it's an upgrade matter.

I consider the primes a logical upgrade to the normal frames, I'm also a bit OCD about primes, when one releases, I want to replace my normal frame with the prime, it always stings that Excalibur Prime remains a gaping hole in that.

Let's be realistic though, it's been years, they haven't gone back on their word, it's not likely they will do so at this point or in the future, at the same time, you can see they've never made similar promises again, because even they realize they messed up with it in hindsight, DE isn't a company that wants to keep content from their players.

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13 minutes ago, Artorius-Alter said:

For me it's an upgrade matter.

I consider the primes a logical upgrade to the normal frames, I'm also a bit OCD about primes, when one releases, I want to replace my normal frame with the prime, it always stings that Excalibur Prime remains a gaping hole in that.

Let's be realistic though, it's been years, they haven't gone back on their word, it's not likely they will do so at this point or in the future, at the same time, you can see they've never made similar promises again, because even they realize they messed up with it in hindsight, DE isn't a company that wants to keep content from their players.

Hopefully Umbra helps close that gap.

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They've already shown its not worth buying prime access and screwed over everyone there buying a purely cosmetic Syndana or alike. They've screwed everyone buying in thinking this was going to be a purely PvE game with the consistent PvP garbage. Only guys left to screw are the founders.

 

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6 hours ago, Ninjacalypse said:

Did founders get the content they were promised? Yes, they did. And like I already mentioned, they said this was a "special set" for founders. Founders did get an exclusive "set." Doesn't mean DE can't re-release the individual items from the set.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130310105706/https://warframe.com/founders

Sorry, but they clearly stated items while naming each individual item separately.

Edited by JustSneaky
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10 hours ago, MadHatHacker said:

Yes, and no. But the burger comparison isn't really valid.

Could you explain why it wouldn't be valid ? And can you point out where in the rule of the founders' package it is written that il will never be available ever again ?

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8 minutes ago, Sygnano said:

Could you explain why it wouldn't be valid ?

Because the special burgers are available for a time-limited period, not 'never again', they don't say they won't bring them back later, possibly permanently.

8 minutes ago, Sygnano said:

And can you point out where in the rule of the founders' package it is written that il will never be available ever again ?

https://warframe.com/news/founders-program-ending-nov-1

"None of these in-game items will be available again. So don't miss out, add them to your collection today!"

Edited by ChuckMaverick
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2 hours ago, JustSneaky said:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130310105706/https://warframe.com/founders

Sorry, but they clearly stated items while naming each individual item separately.

Sorry, but you clearly did not read the EULA. And just in case, you want to complain about "bait & switch" here's the *old* EULA. Current EULA also states the same.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130509132525/https://warframe.com/eula

"Digital Extremes may change, modify, suspend, or discontinue any aspect of the Software at any time."

I would call game content, exclusive or otherwise, an "aspect of the Software", wouldn't you?

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1 minute ago, Ninjacalypse said:

"Digital Extremes may change, modify, suspend, or discontinue any aspect of the Software at any time."

I would call game content, exclusive or otherwise, an "aspect of the Software", wouldn't you?

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd guess that the very specific "we will not bring back founder's items, ever" statement would supersede that more general statement in the EULA.

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Just now, ChuckMaverick said:

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd guess that the very specific "we will not bring back founder's items, ever" statement would supersede that more general statement in the EULA.

No offense but you're right, you're not a lawyer. I'm not either but I do know that a EULA *IS* a legal document. It is a legally binding contract and the terms of EULAs have been upheld in court.

If you wanted to sue DE for re-releasing content then you would first have to prove that the EULA, which you as a user agreed to was not legally enforceable.

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1 hour ago, Ninjacalypse said:

Sorry, but you clearly did not read the EULA. And just in case, you want to complain about "bait & switch" here's the *old* EULA. Current EULA also states the same.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130509132525/https://warframe.com/eula

"Digital Extremes may change, modify, suspend, or discontinue any aspect of the Software at any time."

I would call game content, exclusive or otherwise, an "aspect of the Software", wouldn't you?

And this is exactly what i typed about EULA importance in Jurisdiction. They can type anything they want in to it, but once it conflict with other law, that part of EULA is void and this clearly conflict with consumer and advertisement laws. This part of EULA works to protect right to develop and change game, engine or parts of it (gameplay mechanics, cosmetics (like changing nikana prime model to magistar model) etc), but that's it. Once they offer founder items/set/packs (call it as you want) they legally bind to never release them again. That's the fact. Can they get sued for it, if they brake it? Yes. Probability ? Like dropping parts of unvaulted frames with solo intact relic.

Edited by JustSneaky
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1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Because the special burgers are available for a time-limited period, not 'never again', they don't say they won't bring them back later, possibly permanently.

https://warframe.com/news/founders-program-ending-nov-1

"None of these in-game items will be available again. So don't miss out, add them to your collection today!"

I wouldn't say one post from one news stating something not present in the founders page holds any water legally speaking.

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4 minutes ago, JustSneaky said:

Once they offer founder items/set/packs (call it as you want) they legally bind to never release them again. That's the fact. Can they get sued for it, if they brake it? Yes.

If that is assuredly, absolutely, positively a "fact" then please cite an applicable law and established legal precedence, specific to breach of "exclusivity" in regards to pre-order/founder bonuses for electronic software. I mean...since it's a "fact," you must already know all of this.

If you can't...then be careful what you declare to be a "fact."

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They categorically stated that the content would not be available again. Is that legally enforceable? With the EULA/TOS and the differing laws of the customer's countries, it's debatable. There would certainly be enough grounds for someone to try to sue but again, any success/failure would be debatable. Personally, I'm not bothered if they re-release the items, the only difference it would make to me is that I would no longer trust their word.

Like Bioware... before the ME3 incident, I always pre-ordered their games. Now I no longer trust them and will wait until I read reviews. I'm only one person and my views are entirely my own and DE certainly wouldn't suffer if I spent less on the game.... but I would spend less and although my views are my own, I suspect some of the other founders would be more than a little hacked off.

I personally don't think they will re-release it. DE seem to value their player base and although I don't think they would suffer legally, it's unlikely they would go back on their word.

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So, my latest take on the topic...

I think a case for false advertising would be very difficult to make, in my opinion* you'd have to show that the claim was false at the time, and unless you have access to internal DE correspondence from the time stating that they intended to release the founders' items at a later date, that would be challenging.

I think a case could be made for breach of warranty. By clearly stating that they would never release those items again, DE created a warranty to that effect.

However, under the Canadian Sale of Goods Act you can't sue for a refund for breach of warranty, you can only sue for damages; and I think it would be very hard to argue that you had suffered any material damage from DE re-releasing the items, much less quantify it.

(* I am not a lawyer.)

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5 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Because the special burgers are available for a time-limited period, not 'never again', they don't say they won't bring them back later, possibly permanently.

https://warframe.com/news/founders-program-ending-nov-1

"None of these in-game items will be available again. So don't miss out, add them to your collection today!"

Precisely this.

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