My personal Apology to the Fans

[Rhekemi]

2 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

Oh, and I'm worried about that too. And it's already happening. When you see stuff like the teams not being able to adress issues because they have literally no one to put in charge of them... It's worrying.

Yeah. I think they need new hires in a few departments.

2 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

On the Riven being moneygrabs from the start... I'm not so sure. Given the nature of stuff they do seem to keep in their databases what may seem minimal may be actually huge.

If I sounded like I agreed with them being a moneygrab, I didn't and have expressed that in another topic.

2 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

And DE running out of money? Doubt it. As long as they have a good playerbase anyways.

You're probably right, of course. 

2 hours ago, heskaroid said:

What's also worrying is that we've never had a response from DE shedding some light to the situation, sure Ignus did explain yet he still sounded somewhat vague. 

What i'm trying to say is that DE is always late to respond when it comes to huge s***storms like this. 

I'm not sure how realistic it is to expect an explanation on this matter. Remember how clinical DE's explanation of the investment by the Chinese company was?

While it directly affects the game (the investment meant a new motion capture studio which gave us the Second Dream and War Within quests' cutscenes), the statements on the deal were very brief because that's what DE felt was appropriate, and because it was a company matter.

This is in a similar vein, I think. Yes, it affects us, but it's still an internal matter between an employer and an employee.

I do think they can address it if they want to (in a new topic), and if they do, I'll read it. But an explanation isn't owed to us. This topic was created for IngusDei to speak directly to us fans and fellow community members. It's served that purpose.

[Fylas]

1 hour ago, Rhekemi said:

Yeah. I think they need new hires in a few departments.

If I sounded like I agreed with them being a moneygrab, I didn't and have expressed that in another topic.

You're probably right, of course. 

I'm not sure how realistic it is to expect an explanation on this matter. Remember how clinical DE's explanation of the investment by the Chinese company was?

While it directly affects the game (the investment meant a new motion capture studio which gave us the Second Dream and War Within quests' cutscenes), the statements on the deal were very brief because that's what DE felt was appropriate, and because it was a company matter.

This is in a similar vein, I think. Yes, it affects us, but it's still an internal matter between an employer and an employee.

I do think they can address it if they want to (in a new topic), and if they do, I'll read it. But an explanation isn't owed to us. This topic was created for IngusDei to speak directly to us fans and fellow community members. It's served that purpose.

the mocap studio made very immersive story quests possible, not to mention it seriously reduced the strain on animators when it comes to new moves, styles and frames. Without it 2nd dream and war within would have been much shorter in development and way duller but on the other hand when was that a good thing? :O besides with whats saved on regular development time thanks to the mocap studio, those 4 months used to redo war within 3 times will be outweighed by the time saved on other things before summer 2017 so it all works out :D  ... did I mention I like the studio alot? >_>'

[NightmareT12]

9 minutes ago, Fylas said:

the mocap studio made very immersive story quests possible, not to mention it seriously reduced the strain on animators when it comes to new moves, styles and frames. Without it 2nd dream and war within would have been much shorter in development and way duller but on the other hand when was that a good thing? :O besides with whats saved on regular development time thanks to the mocap studio, those 4 months used to redo war within 3 times will be outweighed by the time saved on other things before summer 2017 so it all works out :D  ... did I mention I like the studio alot? >_>'

That's not what he means.

What he means is that the new Update plans needs are bigger than what the studio people can give. There's a lot of overworking, not being able to fully add resources to something like PBR'ing stuff, not being able to fix stuff that's not literally urgent (for example, Edo Prime's Channeling effects are missing from the chest piece and have been like that since release), not being able to task animators to work on the clothes for the frames that still need them (Volt and Vauban) as fast as they wish they could do...

And that keeps growing and growing. War Within was so huge it had to be split and the actual quest took 8 months of developement if I'm not mistaken.

No one's saying the job done's bad, but that we're worried that we can't adress some (most) stuff at a... "Healthy"? rate.

Edited December 15, 2016 by NightmareT12

[UrielColtan]

4 hours ago, Extroah said:

Ignus did shed some light on it and from what i could it it was his own fault, sucks for him.

Also, Riven Slots for Plat may sound like a moneygrab, but their reasoning behind that is fairly logical.

And where are the S#&$storms? Can't read any. I can only see bandwagon hoppers that jump on the first opportunity to join and bash DE with no valid points. Like saying it's DE's fault that Ignus is gone because they are so bad and only care about Money and what not, when in reality they just added her Mohawk because that's Embers thing, stuff like that. People just blow it out of proportion here.

Sounds like DE doesn't want to resolve anything even with an apology, and denied him from ever contributing again, under such a brief amount of time, given that devstream. Now I'm really going to be on DE's tippy toes about things like this and demanding them to consistently bring their A game with deluxe skins, after letting talent go over their wanting some tacky auxiliary. 

Having to purchase Riven slots is merely a fraction of the problem with Riven mods. Nothing logical about their very existence, these things compromise the progression of the game and it becoming a slotmachine mmo.

Also I'm not surprised that anti-consumer only wants S#&$storm reactions to be the only aknowledged criticism, so as to more justify unruly mob labels. Always a Catch 22 with anti-consumer.

Edited December 15, 2016 by UrielColtan

[-BigB0ss-]

18 hours ago, Mr.ToastForPresident said:

Imagine how backstabbed you will feel if the community thought otherwise and voted for something that you did not feel was right

wait. wait ... The community backstabbed ....? The commuity is the blood of this game or you want to us just be quieted becauses they decide the best thing for us...?  and why the DE need to feel backstabbed ? (sorry bad english)

Edited December 15, 2016 by Rinzler-2.0

[Latiac]

I truly hope you and DE manage to sort things out, you are a great designer afterall, It'd be in their best interests if the Nova Deluxe has anything to show for it.

[Mr.ToastForPresident]

59 minutes ago, Rinzler-2.0 said:

wait. wait ... The community backstabbed ....? The commuity is the blood of this game or you want to us just be quieted becauses they decide the best thing for us...?  and why the DE need to feel backstabbed ? (sorry bad english)

The point of this statement was that this person that I quoted wished for one thing, and said that the community should vote what they feel is right.

If the community as a whole turned out to disagree with that one person's viewpoint, that would essentially be saying that the community betrayed that one person, or "backstabbed" that one person.

I do not wish for the community to be silenced as we can always come up with good ideas that could make it towards the devs. But this one person wants to rely on the community to fulfill his own wishes, which is what I was trying to point out in my response.

[Fylas]

just vote with your money :O! 

[Praisethasun]

I reinstalled warframe for that ember skin :/

Edited December 17, 2016 by Praisethasun

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Follow your dreams bro.

Good luck.

I personally find it disgusting that someone alter your own work.

[IggySnow]

2 hours ago, AcceI said:

-snip-

 

how else would you represent a sound warframe?

[Arkvold]

12 hours ago, Fylas said:

just vote with your money :O! 

Careful there.

I wound up with a topic locked for saying stuff like this.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Arkvold

[rand0mname]

13 minutes ago, IgnusDei said:

The idea behind the skin wasn't so much 'instrumental music', but 'singer', and as such, I wound up integrating sound gear (the kind you'd find on a stage or a recording booth) into the design, as you can see with the headphones and microphones combo, and the speakers in the face and chest. With that in mind, the vinyl disk made an odd sort of sense to me. I blame Kaneko for that — his character designs have even weirder elements stuck on them.

So, Banshee is a “singer”, huh? Since it's not a first thing that come to mind then I hear “banshee”, such explanation do help me to adjust my expectations and accept design more easily (I am talking about personal expectations). Now, if only DE would fix her clipping issue...

By the way, who came up with the “piano” hands? I like them (I am a sucker for gracefull, slightly inhuman hands, mmm, Loki). Gives that uncanny valley feel that all Warframes have.

[JohnKable]

6 hours ago, IgnusDei said:

The idea behind the skin wasn't so much 'instrumental music', but 'singer', and as such, I wound up integrating sound gear (the kind you'd find on a stage or a recording booth) into the design, as you can see with the headphones and microphones combo, and the speakers in the face and chest. With that in mind, the vinyl disk made an odd sort of sense to me. I blame Kaneko for that — his character designs have even weirder elements stuck on them.

i like overall design of soprana skin. i have to agree its not perfecty fitting to her ability set, but is cool as hell.
The weirdest part is the vinyl disk, the rest makes sense one way or another.
I just wish those skins came with their own animation set and poses, could be much sweeter this way.

[Mudfam]

@IgnusDei

I can't speak for your workflow, but as someone with experience in approving and revising designs, I have to say this all seems a bit odd. My approach is to explain any technical or design issues and have the artist make adjustments accordingly. Suggestions are given and discussed while giving the artist liberty to implement them following their own vision for the piece.

No one likes to have their work substantially altered without having a say in the matter, and working through feedback rather than external revision helps avoid encountering issues in future work.

I'm not pointing fingers here, just saying how I personally believe the dialogue between artist and final production should be conducted. I can't say who or what is to blame in your situation.

Anyway, It's a real shame to see you go, I really appreciate the deluxe skins. From this thread I gather I may have liked many of them much better if your original designs had been followed more closely.

Best of luck. You are obviously very talented and I hope to see more of you work elsewhere if not in Warframe.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

On 12/13/2016 at 7:57 PM, Agentawesome said:

I'd understand that the art team had to simplify the design to better suit 3D models, a lot of the small flair bits and detail would simply add too many faces to the existing model, as well as the horn to make it more similar to Ember's helmet designs. 

It's common for artists to be of differing opinions and I will respect DE's decisions to keep their skins to a certain standard and not detract too far from the game's theme. 

I don't get why people hate the blade on Ember's head, while some praise the literal bent Machete on Ember's Graxx helmet. 

Because it doesn't fit the rest of the aesthetic of the model . What does a half burned body have to do with a head blade ???

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

Damn I was looking forward to a Wukong, Vauban, Atlas, Inaros, Hydroid, & no even a nidus skin made by you . 

I loved all of your work , screamed for joy at all of them , appreciated what you have done here I hope everything works out for you man . 

Ps. I also pray they don't touch Frost deluxe skin much . 

[Hesyol]

On 15.12.2016 at 3:31 PM, heskaroid said:

What's also worrying is that we've never had a response from DE shedding some light to the situation, sure Ignus did explain yet he still sounded somewhat vague. 

What i'm trying to say is that DE is always late to respond when it comes to huge s***storms like this. 

DE rarely responds to anything here. I'm not trying to say they don't read forum. They do and they react in one way or another to what people post. But to see someone from staff posting something even in a big thread like this? It's very rare

Edited December 17, 2016 by Hesyol

[Fylas]

8 hours ago, Arkvold said:

Careful there.

I wound up with a topic locked for saying stuff like this.

well I'm not actively asking people to boycott warframe, I'm merely saying if they do not like a business practice, do not support it with your money, you don't like the riven cap? don't by cap upgrades :O don't like how a skin looks after it was altered? don't buy it,  like a skin or accessory? buy it? I personally am a sucker for those chibi glyphs THEY ARE SO ADORABLE!!! I want a warframe coffee cup that has a chibi lotus yelling "it's the grineer" at a valkyr cat chibi chewing on a grineer head XD I'd even pay for export import whatever fees to get that cup to germany OwO now THAT's a giftshop item I can get behind :D :D :D

[traybong111]

On 12/14/2016 at 4:12 AM, Mr.ToastForPresident said:

There is a lot of people in that word "they".

Mynki is the primary designer for most of the warframes and is the art director.

I think Janice Chu is or was one of their weapon designers and UI designer that makes the little ability icons who makes artwork like this:

The designer of the zarr is Sean Bigham, who also made the Orphid skin:

Plus a ton more artist in the company, each with their own unique style and flair that makes them special.

Saying DE is losing a lot when Ignus is leaving is really undercutting the hardwork and talent that the artist at DE have. The artist that DE hires all have their own unique flavor  and style to them, and hiring Ignus feels like that was a match made in heaven. They kept to Ignus' original style as much as possible, but also placed limits on what he can do. Warframe has a really unique style, but also has some limit to keep some coherency. Imagine how inconsistent the game would look if all artist at DE could do whatever they want without placing some sort of guideline to what they can create. The game would be an incoherent mess of different styles that would fail to keep a consistent universe.

Ignus had an opportunity to work with DE and with the design of Warframe, one that was more open and creative than any other art styles that I have seen. This could unfortunately be his last gig to show off his creativity, as all other developers are much harsher with their art style. saying Ignus would find a job that allows him to shine with this style would be really hard and rare, as most games try to look more modern or fantasy, rather than the mythical sci-fi fantasy that is Warframe. Hopefully he can find a job that would like to use his style.

It's a bit harrowing to see just how misunderstood or under-appreciated modelling and designing are; people rage about IngnusDei's artwork and his originality and integrity getting trampled while in the same breath shamelessly bashing designs done by other DE employees. Way too many people in this thread seem to think making a 2D concept art into a 3D modelling players can move in all sorts of angles and do game things just happens like osmosis. I get that ignorant people tend to simplify or demean what they don't understand, but this...this is really sad. But I guess DE somewhat brought it upon themselves by calling certain skins and designs "deluxe" and the ignorant human mind tends to take that as all other designs in the game are "non-deluxe," banal, vanilla; something that can be produced easily. Maybe a lot of forumites have been playing Warframe for so long that its fundamental designs and aesthetics are just taken for granted now. 

I'm saddened things have turned out the way they did, from DE and IgnusDei to this thread vomiting such pitiful ignorance from people who've never once given serious thought to professional art and artists but nonetheless exploit them to jump on a bandwagon. I wish the best for you IgnusDei, I really like your designs. 

[dashashou]

I really liked IgnusDei 's work , and hated the concept changes on ember why does she need a blade on her head anyway ?

[Zephyr]

A part of me just died...

[Arkvold]

1 hour ago, Fylas said:

well I'm not actively asking people to boycott warframe, I'm merely saying if they do not like a business practice, do not support it with your money, you don't like the riven cap? don't by cap upgrades :O don't like how a skin looks after it was altered? don't buy it,  like a skin or accessory? buy it?

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make in that thread.  If you don't like what a company is doing, don't buy the things you disagree with.  If you like what it's doing, buy the things that support that activity.

For instance, I recently bought the Rhino Palatine skin because first, I liked it and had been wanting it for a long time, and second, I support IgnusDei's artwork, and want to make a point to DE that I feel that letting him go was a bad idea.  I intend to buy the Loki Knave, Oberon Feyarch, and Trinity Strega skins eventually for the same reason.  I won't be buying the Nova Asuri or Saryn Orphid deluxe skins, because they're not appealing to me.

Specifically in relation to this thread, I won't be buying the upcoming Ember deluxe skin, unless DE goes back on some of the design changes they forced on IgnusDei; not only are they not appealing, but they're also harmful to his artistic integrity and poorly-justified.  I mean, the head-blade?  Really?  Oberon Feyarch got rid of most of Oberon's defining helmet features, and that got in as an immensely-positively-received Deluxe Skin.  Rhino Prime gets rid of Rhino's signature horn, and that's DE's own in-house art.  The Wukong Xingzhe helmet removes Wukong's head-streamers in favor of a different nod to Wukong's legend, and that's Tennogen.  If these three are allowed to do it, why not this?

I feel that voting with your wallet like this will make a much bigger impact on DE's decisionmaking than mere words.

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, Arkvold said:

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make in that thread.  If you don't like what a company is doing, don't buy the things you disagree with.  If you like what it's doing, buy the things that support that activity.

For instance, I recently bought the Rhino Palatine skin because first, I liked it and had been wanting it for a long time, and second, I support IgnusDei's artwork, and want to make a point to DE that I feel that letting him go was a bad idea.  I intend to buy the Loki Knave, Oberon Feyarch, and Trinity Strega skins eventually for the same reason.  I won't be buying the Nova Asuri or Saryn Orphid deluxe skins, because they're not appealing to me.

Specifically in relation to this thread, I won't be buying the upcoming Ember deluxe skin, unless DE goes back on some of the design changes they forced on IgnusDei; not only are they not appealing, but they're also harmful to his artistic integrity and poorly-justified.  I mean, the head-blade?  Really?  Oberon Feyarch got rid of most of Oberon's defining helmet features, and that got in as an immensely-positively-received Deluxe Skin.  Rhino Prime gets rid of Rhino's signature horn, and that's DE's own in-house art.  The Wukong Xingzhe helmet removes Wukong's head-streamers in favor of a different nod to Wukong's legend, and that's Tennogen.  If these three are allowed to do it, why not this?

I feel that voting with your wallet like this will make a much bigger impact on DE's decisionmaking than mere words.

A huge majority of players won't care about this nitpick and will buy the Ember skin anyway.

I don't remember anyone complaining about the mowhawk during the dev stream.

[WillowHeart]

Just come baaacck! :(