My personal Apology to the Fans

[_Iye]

At least I'm not going to spend my hard earned/real world plats for this tumour hand blade head skin but dont know about you guys though.

Very awful but, an artist can't be considered as an artist (at all) if he/she fail to appreciate the work/passion of another one.

Shame

[Hypernaut1]

3 hours ago, UrielColtan said:

DE cared enough to fire Ignus over it, thats a problem. A swift and slipshod one that I hope not to see again, if not initially resolved.

It's their game. The premium skins were just extra, not part of the core theme anyway. 

The game will go on. I have no idea of what truly went down, but DE certainly has the freedom to work with whoever they choose to provide auxiliary content.

[Extroah]

3 hours ago, AhmadIvu said:

At least I'm not going to spend my hard earned/real world plats for this tumour hand blade head skin but dont know about you guys though.

Very awful but, an artist can't be considered as an artist (at all) if he/she fail to appreciate the work/passion of another one.

Shame

I will buy it. It was his own fault so why should i boycot DE over one (not even fulltime employed) designer messing up? People here are just hopping onto the bandwagon, nothing more.

[Lanadra]

While I've said, way back in earlier pages, that this annoyed me, and it does, I think I'll judge the Ember skin, which seemed to have been the main issue, when it comes out, when I see what it actually looks like in game.

I hope, very much so, that DE might still decide to either remove the head knife/mohawk, or make it so we can choose between a helmet with it and a helmet without it, the latter would be ideal, choice is never a bad thing in such a matter.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Artorius-Alter

[Teshin_Dax]

That was a big mistake DE... dont let awesome guys go and ignore their concept/created dream

I feel ... disappointed

Edited December 21, 2016 by Teshin_Dax

[Rhekemi]

On 12/20/2016 at 11:48 AM, DefekteDelfin said:

[...]

enemies like the manic

[...]

!! I see Unus caught it, too.

On 12/20/2016 at 3:43 PM, C3-BANAKANI said:

hahaha Never expected to see the Kojima drama in Warframe. Has DE fallen so low to Konami level? (Hope I will not get banned for this comment)

 

Spoiler

 

On 12/20/2016 at 11:50 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

I could never understand how a fanbase can build such a disdain for the creators of the product they are a fan of. And it's not just WF either. It's a weird phenomenon. 

The very reason you are here is because of the creators and artist and the choices they made when creating this game. This isn't your product, its theirs. How can people act like they don't know what they're doing?

Consumers have always retained the right to tear a product's developer, producer, manufacturer, or artist a new one if they don't like what the product has become or what it is.

That said, I definitely it's gotten easier to directly speak to the people who make what we consume due to the internet. 

If it were like the old days and we all had to write actual letters, I'm not sure how many would actually file consumer complaints that way. Other than that, products rose and fell on the strength of word of mouth (from everyday consumers, and well-respected reviewers and critics). If I hated something and told my neighbor, they wouldn't use the product. Then they'd tell their neighbor and before you know it, no one in town will buy said product because they changed some part of the formula and it's a shell of what it used to be.

In the case of letters, that probably meant a specific department was in charge of reading them and responding/representing the company. (Hop onto a super-popular toothpaste's consumer feedback section online, or any leading dental products site and you'll still see the company reps whose job it is to deal with feedback hard at work.)

That separation has been removed as we all interact more directly through the internet and social media.

If anything, that's what's changed: internet connectivity allowing us to speak directly, consumer to producer.

On 12/20/2016 at 8:07 PM, Unus said:

I know I will get flack over this, but, the manic was a fan creation that was completely and totally ripped right off of the artistic page and placed firmly into the game, all artistic assets intact. While it's largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, I still want to correct this mainly because. . . well. . . actually. . . where was Igo AHA! Because it provides an excellent example of when customer-to-corporate interaction works! I really wanna remember the creator's name, just so I can ask them how things worked out with them and Digital and compare it to Mr. Fire God's (Thankfully, he appears to still be with us, thank you sir!) current experience. Was the tussle ongoing, or spur of the moment? Was it something specifically about his breed of art, some manner of shape or form that grated against Digital's eyes where the manic maker just so randomly made a choice that synchronized extremely well with Mr. . . uh. . . Myniki, there it is, Mr. Myniki's own.

    I would love to have every single detail laid out before me (given my friendlessness and quant ability to forget large blocks of information at random, whatever corporate secrets that might be divulged would likely get shoved between the newspaper and wet tuna that is my mind or go straight into the paper shredder that is neural overridance). However, seeing as Digital likely has the equipment on hand to peruse anyone's private message bins and that I am a terrifying stranger with a disjointed stream of consciousness writing  style, I doubt anyone would consent to tell me anything, so,. . . uh. . . yeah. 

 

I am. . . so sorry.

Glad you caught this, bro!

And here's that artist's interview. Kadabura.

On 12/21/2016 at 10:42 AM, Teshin_Dax said:

That was a big mistake DE... dont let awesome guys go and ignore their concept/created dream

I feel ... disappointed

I feel ... like saying your screen name in the Old Queen's voice everytime I see it.

TESHIN DAX.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Domesticon]

I have to say, I was quite angry when I first heard about this, and I still am, as from what I know it seems DE is overall in the wrong here. But Besides that, could they just talk about it? Really. The silence just makes it worse, like a child who's hand got caught in the cookie jar, guiltily looking down at their feet. If they came out instead and said "Here's what were thinking, this is why we did what we did." That would makes things so much better, and I'd think a lot better of Myniki and the art team.

 

Not to say I don't think Ignus messed up, he got too passionate by his own word, don't doubt that to be true. But without knowing what the art team/Myniki was thinking, I can't defend what they've done or what DE did as a result of their offense. I don't really want a debate about the quality of their work with them, just why they did what they did and their thought process, you can see some of it in their work, reducing polygons, adding the typical Ember mohawk, which I don't fully agree with, but it'd be like Oberon without Antlers, acceptable but a notable change. But then you get into other things, the jutting out spikes on the knives, making the arms tumor-like. Just doesn't make sense with the aesthetic. 

 

DE really is the one losing out on this, and I don't want them to, because I want DE to do well. It would be great if they'd both come together, hash things out and improve the skin TOGETHER. It's Ignus' work, but it's DE's game. DE doesn't get the fancy skin that we'll buy without Ignus, but Ignus doesn't get to put the skin out there without DE. If they're not willing to work with Ignus on this, then it only hurts them and makes them look bad, childish, as said. But if Ignus is just done with them after this, and I hope he's not, then not much can be done either. So I hope they both are willing to come together and correct this.

[Unus]

43 minutes ago, Rhekemi said:

!! I see Unus caught it, too.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Consumers have always retained the right to tear a products developer, producer, manufacturer, or artist a new one if they don't like what the product.

That said, I definitely it's gotten easier to directly speak to the people who make what we consume due to the internet. 

If it were like the old days and we all had to write actual letters, I'm not sure how many would actually file consumer complaints that way. Other than that, products rose and fell on the strength of word of mouth (from everyday consumers, and well-respected reviewers and critics). If I hated something and told my neighbor, they wouldn't use the product. Then they'd tell their neighbor and before you know it, no one in town will buy said product because they changed some part of the formula and it's a shell of what it used to be.

In the case of letters, that probably meant a specific department was in charge of reading them and responding/representing the company. (Hop onto a super-popular toothpaste's consumer feedback section online, or any leading dental products site and you'll still see the company reps whose job it is to deal with feedback hard at work.)

That separation has been removed as we all interact more directly through the internet and social media.

If anything, that's what's changed: internet connectivity allowing us to speak directly, consumer to producer.

Glad you caught this, bro!

And here's that artist's interview. Kadabura.

I feel ... like saying your screen name in the Old Queen's voice everytime I see it.

TESHIN DAX.

Aha, thanks! Sadly, it appears that that chap or chappette hasn't been with us for a loooooonnnggg time, pity. Coulda tested a theory or two then.

[radastir]

@IgnusDei @[DE] That's truly a pity that things evolved as badly as they did. Surely the art team has to follow certain allowances concerning the "official" designs of the skins (i.e. some kind of a mandatory "cockscomb" for Ember).

Maybe a possible solution could be the implementation of the "combless" helmet variant as a Tennogen skin?

I really hope the decision to break up is not a final one and that there will be a way to work together again in the future.


 

[SurryCurry]

What gets my goat is that the community's entitlement is so inflated that they feel like they have a blank check to insult the developers and act like they know the full story. None of us know the full story, not by a long-shot, and the full story doesn't need to be known for me to say: get a grip, this too shall pass and saying the same un-constructive things will make matters worse, not better, worse.

Objectively, the changes to Ember's deluxe design aren't ground-shaking enough to justify any major anger in the consumers; that's just people nitpicking and whining for the sake of voicing their opinions and misplaced frustrations, in my own flawed opinion. What the changes DID DO was ruffle Ignis Dei's feathers - not for the first time, and definitely not something the public should have ANY business in knowing.

The defense comes up again and again, artists are passionate, artists don't like their work to be tampered with - this is understandable, but the specifics of what happened are not for the fans to know or judge, at least not through official channels such as these. (And I'd personally venture to say that there would have to be very good reason to report the specifics, otherwise it's just in exceedingly bad taste to air dirty laundry like that for the sake of gossip.)

Personally, I am taking Ignis' posting of this thread, and the wording within, as an admission that he crossed lines himself that he should not have, and was terminated as a result; my question is, how is it anybody's business? It is shameful that people should go and insult DE for "making the worst move possible" by releasing Ignis Dei - as a consumer, you have utterly no idea what kind of internal issues were playing out, and therefore should not judge and petition for potentially drastic changes in decisions that none of us could have had any part of, whatsoever.

Similarly, the burden of explanation is not on DE, because it wasn't the developers that decided to make this thread and announce, melodramatically, that Ignis would no longer be working with them. It's easy to claim: "Well, they should come out and tell us what happened! I'd have a better opinion of them if they did that, that's being the bigger person!" Except, it's not that easy.

Fact of the matter is, DE canonized Ignis Dei's concept work and rendered his work in-game, they lifted up what would have just been an exceedingly talented fan artist for a reason, and now they've let him go for, once again, their own reasons that I currently trust were made fairly enough, and I think people should calm down and realize: they're a company with a professional reputation to uphold and the matter of exactly why Ignis was terminated is probably private - to reveal the reasoning may very well damn them, legally and socially, and that is not a risk any sane collective would agree to make.

Of course, give condolence for the loss of the contract and lack of future deluxe skins from Ignis Dei, but don't act like you're entitled to know the full story and pass judgment, and then on top of that complain about what you're getting at the end of the day.

Because, objectively, the design wasn't changed that drastically and we've not seen the model itself - the changes made don't affect you deeply as a consumer, no if's, and's, or but's, it's not like you designed the thing yourself and had unauthorized changes made, it's not like you're making the model yourself, or coding in its implementation, you're just buying it - either buy it, or don't, and be calm.

Sorry for speaking so generally, I'm sure there's many people who err on the side of objectivity and calmness, and I am not pointing fingers at those people - even if it seems like I'm preaching to the choir. (Case in point on this page: @Domesticon, your thoughts mirror my own, definitely more succinct and less ranty.)

Edited December 22, 2016 by SurryCurry

[(PSN)ghinellil]

I really need a brief summary 

[Culaio]

On 21.12.2016 at 10:37 AM, Extroah said:

From what he said he didnt want DE to add the Mohawk on the Helmet so it's his own fault imho. The Mohawk is her thing just like the Tophat is Limbos thing, or Novas Void'ish looking Helmets, can't expect DE to change the 'style' of a Warframe just because you don't like her thing and then blame them. Also, he only did Concept drawings.. it's in the Name..Concept..ever seen a Concept Car that got released 1:1 the way the Concept looked like? It's like somebody making a BMW Concept Design without the 2-Grille design and then blame BMW for adding said Grille design.

nova deluxe skin that has nothing to do with IgnusDei completly abandons her void theme(especially her helmet), so it shows us that its fine for DE to abandon theme in their deluxe skin but it isnt fine in deluxe skin designed by someone else.

biggest problem with mohawk added to ember deluxe skin is that it DOESNT fit the skin and its helmet, it looks like hot knfie was duck taped to the helmet, it neither fits  clean side nor its volcanic/burned side

[Goodwill]

16 minutes ago, Culaio said:

biggest problem with mohawk added to ember deluxe skin is that it DOESNT fit the skin and its helmet, it looks like hot knfie was duck taped to the helmet, it neither fits  clean side nor its volcanic/burned side

I will admit the knife doesn't fit, but isn't that where you are suppose to compromise and create another mohawk that's more aesthetically in line with the rest of the armor? I personally think a simple crest would be better. Something low profile, but still a mohawk.

[Hypernaut1]

What if it was the other way around and DE was the one that removed the mowhawk. I wonder if this would be a thread full of people demanding that DE replace Embers signature feature?

[Culaio]

1 hour ago, Goodwill said:

I will admit the knife doesn't fit, but isn't that where you are suppose to compromise and create another mohawk that's more aesthetically in line with the rest of the armor? I personally think a simple crest would be better. Something low profile, but still a mohawk.

The thing is that with nova deluxe skin DE shown that they are willing to change  frame theme in deluxe skin.

But personally I wouldnt mind mohawk that would actually FIT the ember deluxe skin design, maybe something that looks like volcanic eruption, or since burned half looks like armor maybe use rome helmet "mohawk" as inspiration 

[aSpaceStranger]

Tenno!! let's not deviate from the real "underlying" topic here: Get that Stupid impaled Axe out of Embers head please!.. I mean, who on their right mind would thought that was a great design choice?...

Now, on Ignus departure, well.. to me it's a huge mistake when ONE dude can make better skins that the whole art department of your game, it's embarrassing actually, but.. it's DE's game, we just have to suck it up or take a few Zoloft and let it pass.

One thing though, if I owned a game, and had the same predicament, I would be such a pussy for any demands for someone so talented, unless it's game breaking of course, but other than that it all goes (it's Deluxe after all), besides, only thing being hurt here is DE's wallet, Ignus would go on to be greater than this I'm sure, and Warframe as long as it hold those 59,000 active players it will be alright, it will have a big downgrade in art, but it won't die anytime soon.

[Fast_98]

What with people and this thread? Let it die already jeez stop using nekros desicrate every second day.

[Freezing-Dragon]

Whoever is Nekros bumping, it's pointless. Just let it burn unto fire.

[WillowHeart]

1 hour ago, Fast_98 said:

What with people and this thread? Let it die already jeez stop using nekros desicrate every second day.

1. Probably because people like his designs vs DE's design... I mean the sales tells it all.. 

2. If you are so tired about it, why are you here?

[Delta-Epsilon_Limit]

Seems like DE is messing up a lot lately. This whole issue and the crafting/farming issues that are also being brought up... What are they doing?

[Fast_98]

17 minutes ago, WillowHeart said:

1. Probably because people like his designs vs DE's design... I mean the sales tells it all.. 

2. If you are so tired about it, why are you here?

1. You have no record of sale differences so your going off with make believe fact. Plus  you think everyone doesn't like DE work? So every tileset, frame and weapon is ugly and because one Creator made good art he should be held higher then the rest?

2. I'm tired of the fact that this thread is nothing more than a bashing party on both sides that is just fueling either sides toxicity with each other.

[Vali]

22 minutes ago, Delta-Epsilon_Limit said:

Seems like DE is messing up a lot lately. This whole issue and the crafting/farming issues that are also being brought up... What are they doing?

Thing is, the last time a piece of equipment was added to the game with expensive resource costs was Vauban Prime. Every other piece of equipment in the Nekros/Valkyr Prime access', the few tens of weapons released in between like the Javlok and Gazal Machete, Titania and Nidus all have relatively low costs. 

 

People will start claiming that this is a large issue, though this has happened before like with Wukong's Nitain farming, Ivara being in spy missions, Zephyr's Oxium costs etc. Most people don't realize that DE only puts out these high-cost gears very rarely, but when met with it they instantly jump the gun and say everything is a huge grind. 

[(PSN)Romulus93]

Bring back Ignus Dei. He's the reason I buy deluxe skins. Nova was a huge disappointment and unsurprisingly, it wasn't him that made it.

[SicSlaver]

On 20/12/2016 at 5:02 PM, IgnusDei said:

That's actually something I've been meaning to address: that's actually my fault. I sent in a sketch of her back with an intact skirt that appeared symmetrical but wind-swept.

Well Ignus, I don't always agree with your deluxe skin designs, but it's always up there with my favourites and I respect your design choices. For instance, I would have preferred if the branches going off of Oberon's arms and head to not be so symmetrical and be more random or as vines that crawl around his arms. And his legs and feet to be thicker and goat like. But if I were your employer, I would consult you first and have you make the changes instead.

[SicSlaver]

I will admit the knife doesn't fit, but isn't that where you are suppose to compromise and create another mohawk that's more aesthetically in line with the rest of the armor? I personally think a simple crest would be better. Something low profile, but still a mohawk.

I think the problem was that they didn't consult him and just made the tacky changes themselves and he saw it on the devstream? This is just my assumption; more clearance about it would be nice.

Edited December 29, 2016 by SicSlaver