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Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 3!


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24 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRainbowTurt1e said:

Why not just have one universal "veiled riven mod". If you equipped this riven mod on a primary weapon and do the challenge you get a primary riven in return, if you equip the mod on a secondary and complete the challenge you get a secondary riven, so on so fourth.

I would much rather this system.

Also can we please see a decrease in the price of Riven Slots. It's insane that you've placed a price tag on a system that hasn't been fully implemented or thought out. 

 

At this point it should be 5p for a slot, 50p for 10 and of course a large pack for all the slots. 

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27 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRainbowTurt1e said:

Why not just have one universal "veiled riven mod". If you equipped this riven mod on a primary weapon and do the challenge you get a primary riven in return, if you equip the mod on a secondary and complete the challenge you get a secondary riven, so on so fourth.

I like this idea a lot. Good suggestion! 

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24 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

And I keep getting Endo reward every sorties despite being "uncommon" when Riven mods are "common". I think there's something wrong with the drop tables. 

I agree. XD For almost two weeks straight now, I've gotten nothing but 2K endo every day. Oh, well. One day, I too will get another Riven....

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You're going to have to explain to me in simpler and more direct terms how having limited mod capacity will make me more creative with my modding.

Wouldn't it make me less creative as I'm less likely to try out weapons that I don't have OP Rivens for? 

confused-cat.jpg?w=239

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28 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRainbowTurt1e said:

Why not just have one universal "veiled riven mod". If you equipped this riven mod on a primary weapon and do the challenge you get a primary riven in return, if you equip the mod on a secondary and complete the challenge you get a secondary riven, so on so fourth.

I wish they would do this, but a lot of their recent actions make it seem like they don't want player choice, and just want everything to be RNG. And if the mods aren't separate, they can't sell off the riven capacity slots as easily. It's one of many good pieces of riven feedback.

If that's not true, I'd love to be proved wrong. Actions speak louder than words. You have to understand what these actions are like to the community.

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38 minutes ago, [DE]Drew said:

The point in limiting capacity is meaningful selection rather than a ubiquitous collection.

Any chance we can get a firm commitment from DE to not limit Non-Riven mod slots? 

I can imagine a day where I log in and I have 8500/2500 mods, and I need to buy slot bundles of 100 for 20p. 

 

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The best solution to riven dilution is that unveiled rivens work for all three weapon types. What you equip it on when you unveil determines the eventual weapon type. IE, equip your unveiled mod on a lex prime and it becomes a secondary riven. 

Also we need more sources of rivens, especially a consistent one. A weekly quest or high reputation syndicate reward would be perfect. Sorties are manageable but locking some players out due to bad luck is just frustrating. 

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9 minutes ago, Pyus said:

Any chance we can get a firm commitment from DE to not limit Non-Riven mod slots? 

I can imagine a day where I log in and I have 8500/2500 mods, and I need to buy slot bundles of 100 for 20p. 

 

There is no basis for this concern. We do not plan to limit standard mods. 

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4 minutes ago, ENGINEEEEER said:

Also we need more sources of rivens, especially a consistent one. A weekly quest or high reputation syndicate reward would be perfect. Sorties are manageable but locking some players out due to bad luck is just frustrating. 

A weekly mission sounds great.

Same for the Syndicate reward. Make it like the Operator suits are in the market, not visible until the quest is finished.

 

Or a token system....

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Glad to hear Rifle Riven mods will still be in Sortie reward, but please, do not add another layer of RNG to a system which relies heavily on that already, perhaps even too much. 

Let us chose at least the type of weapon the Riven mod we find will be once we get it from a Sortie; it already happens way less than most of the players would like, do not add a disappointment chance even when the coveted Riven is finally obtained as a reward. 

Edited by siralextraffo
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23 minutes ago, [DE]Drew said:

The point in limiting capacity is meaningful selection rather than a ubiquitous collection.

Sorry it's not meaningful selection it is limited selection, and since almost every mod is unique even for the same the weapon it wouldn't turn into a ubiquitous collection, because it is likely that there's a mod with same parameters and different numbers, on those same parameters.
 

29 minutes ago, [DE]Drew said:

But, like in many other parts of Warframe, we want to give players the option to expand on the systems that appeal to them. With that in mind, we included the option to increase capacity at a cost that reflects the initial goal of meaningful Riven choice and reflects the value of Rivens in the overall economy.

I tough I had already made that choice when I bought weapons, slots for those weapons and ways to upgrade those same weapons.
And I can't understand how the goal of meaningful selection is perserved if you simply sell a way to bypass it.
It show that meaningfull riven selection was never the goal, but impose a limit to make players get pass that limit by purchasing it.
 

40 minutes ago, [DE]Drew said:

If someone chooses to purchase additional slots, they are investing in the Riven system and in Warframe as a whole. 

It was hard to answer the best way to this sentence without any vitriol.

But I'll try my best for the sake of improving the Riven system and Warframe as a whole.

The forums are full of suggestions that were ignored,and are indeed plausible and reasonable suggestions, and didn't get any feedback, from any DE staff.

Beside those multiple threads exposing a number of problems with the whole riven system those problems were not adressed until today and we are informed that there's the intention to release more of this mods, aggravating some of the already existing problems with the system.

After all that was suggested,insinuating that people support Warframe as a whole by investing in this system. Let me elaborate.
This unfinished,unfair,underperfoming system,subject to major changes, and already being commercialized trough slots or player-to-player exchange,and  I've learn from the past, I won't risk buying a bike in Warframe and end up with a bicycle after 2 months.
Please don't take this as vitriol, it's a honest opinion shared by many other disapointed costumers.

Sorry, I'm not able to show any form support to Warframe by buying anything related to this system.

 

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If you guys REALLY wanted us to pick and choose riven cards you would give us more control over the stats they get when rerolling or even when unlocking the card. When unlocking the card, it should be affected by both the weapon it is on, and the mods AROUND it when we go and complete the challenge. This change would greatly help players get that ONE card they really want.

Instead the system we have has us grabbing three riven cards all for the same weapon and we end up rolling them so many times to get something that doesn't out right suck, and the fact that we have shared some of these horrible cards and get a "Working as intended" or even "That's fine." shows how distant DE is from the player base in terms of how we mod our weapons and in general play the game.

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Good lord, as if getting what you want from the @(*()$ sorties isn't bad enough already. For the love of all that is good and pure in this world, don't remove rifle rivens from the pool when you add the new ones. Just give us a popup which lets us pick what kind of riven we want. Let us pic between the three types, and rng can take over from there. Let us weight the numbers just a little bit in our favor if we get lucky.

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5 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

(This Dev Workshop builds on the information discussed in our previous Riven workshops. You can read them here: Part 1 & Part 2)

Additional Riven Slots:

The option to purchase additional Riven Slots was added in Update 19.3.2 for those players who wish to go beyond the initial 15 capacity. For many players, reaching that capacity is still a long-term goal, as they gradually acquire more through Sorties and trading. However, some players who have fully embraced the Riven life and are already looking for ways to increase their collection. For that reason, we’ve included the option to buy a bundle of three additional slots for 60 Platinum. 

So why limit initial capacity to 15 and why sell a bundle for more? In our first Riven workshop we stated that the maximum is a reflection of our desire to encourage creativity and choice. We want each Riven in your collection to be carefully considered. Should you keep it, dissolve it, or trade it? Maybe you choose to focus on Rivens for more powerful weapons, or since those are already capable, maybe you’re a curator of the more obscure weapon Rivens. 

The point in limiting capacity is meaningful selection rather than a ubiquitous collection. But, like in many other parts of Warframe, we want to give players the option to expand on the systems that appeal to them. With that in mind, we included the option to increase capacity at a cost that reflects the initial goal of meaningful Riven choice and reflects the value of Rivens in the overall economy. If someone chooses to purchase additional slots, they are investing in the Riven system and in Warframe as a whole. 

We still require a hard cap of 60 slots because Riven Mods are so big compared to any other  item data, which all gets pulled in when Warframe queries a player’s inventory. If this technical limitation can be overcome, we’ll post updated information. Additional comments on Riven capacity can be found in our Road to 15/15 workshop.

It’s worth reiterating what was said in our first Riven workshop, “As Developers, we want to emphasize: nothing is set in stone. Warframe is known to be always changing and adapting. Remember that groups work best together when respect is shown, so while we can and do look past a lot of vitriol to find what you think, it's better that you express your thought without it.

With that in mind, let’s move on to some exciting plans for Update 19.5! 


Secondary & (potentially) Shotgun Riven Plans: 

As you may have already heard, we plan to include Secondary Rivens with our 19.5 update but if possible, we’ll also include Shotgun Rivens! Our current plan is to include these new Mods in the Sortie reward pool so that if you receive a Riven reward, it has a chance of being either a Rifle, Shotgun, or Secondary Riven. The exact chance for each is still being worked on. We do not plan to change the chance to receive a Riven Mod as a Sortie reward at this time. 

We’ll be watching and reviewing the impact of the new Mods as they propagate through the playerbase, so we look forward to seeing what kind of interesting combinations arise. As always, we’ll make changes as necessary. We appreciate your feedback and understanding as we gradually expand the Riven system. If plans change, we’ll update this workshop. 
 
Thanks for reading! 

If the limit doesn't exist purely for technical reasons, it should be removed. All it does it drive the price of Rivens up by limiting the storage supply, and cause people to throw out rivens for low or mid tier weapons (which is the opposite of what Devs wanted) to make sure they have room for the meta rivens.

Glad to see that none of the other ideas posted here on the forums are being taken into account. /sarcasm

Edited by Daggerpaw1
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2 hours ago, infamouscycle said:

There have been plenty of opinions and ideas voiced on the forums already.

90% of which just want it to be easier to get their dream mod for the simulor, leaving the gorgon/karak/dera/miter/ogris fans in the dust, i want my secura dual cestra to wipe the floor with the best of them, but guess what: life's a b**ch

seriously, what is with people thinking people who aren't associated with the devs are leonardo da vinci with their ideas? have they gone to college for this? have they been touched by god himself? are they certified game design prodigies in disguise?

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Let's discuss 20 sorties done 1 riven, 70% lenses...endo etc.

RNG is a thing but the label COMMON associated with the riven smells really bad.

RNG factor + a COMMON droprate is FAST DEFLECTION in AKKAD. that is common and living up to its name.

ENDO drops in sorties are COMMON.

Riven no, more like it feels it's a rare drop.

i Admit i got like 3 rivens in 5 runs right after TWW deployment, but since the change that added nitain etc this is my situation and many others are having a hard time getting a riven despite it's listed as common.RNG may be a factor, but if something is really common, rng or not it will pop out way sooner than once once every 15-18-20 runs.

Those rewards in relics the first 3 that u can run intact yeah those are really common, u may get lucky and catch the rare drop without running it radiant but do 10 runs and i bet you'll get one of those 3 common items more than one time over 10 runs...whether it's a prime part or a forma.

Not exactly what's happening with the riven being listed as common.

 

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If I may add to the ever-growing list of concerns and ideas; I would like to say that please do consider adding more ways for a player to acquire certain things in Warframe.

As you said, the amount of choice players have in Warframe is large and it is that freedom of choice that I believe many of us hold dear. So, these Riven mods who seem to only be available during Sorties, only after The War Within quest, are quite hard to get to. That is not a bad thing, as they are supposed to be a kind of veteran or advanced piece of equipment.

But consider adding some more kind of paths a player could take to get to Riven Mods, and to Kuva in general. Maybe a certain MR ranking player can find them in certain missions, or rewards for syndicates or Simaris, or Raids, etc. Anything really just so players can have multiple pathways.

(Same thing for Kuva - Why not consider Kuva Siphons to be the 'rare' material cache version of Kuva, but have Kuva drops available from other places so players are not restricted to quests? If you are concerned that a player needs a certain amount of prestige in their time in Warframe before gaining access to them, you could always MR lock certain drops or other accesses. For example only a level .....lets say 15MR player or above can find Kuva drops in normal missions but they can't find Kuva siphons until they complete the quest?)

 

Lastly, I do believe with the ever growing possibility of Riven mods, with possibilities including Shotguns, Bows, Snipers, Melees, even companions in the future, the idea to equip a veiled mod onto the equipment item you seek at first is quite helpful in narrowing the RNG process. It would also feel logical.

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18 minutes ago, Daggerpaw1 said:

If the limit doesn't exist purely for technical reasons, it should be removed. All it does it drive the price of Rivens up by limiting the storage supply, and cause people to throw out rivens for low or mid tier weapons (which is the opposite of what Devs wanted) to make sure they have room for the meta rivens.

Good point. Since they added Riven mods, everybody in the tchat was begging for Simulor or Tonkor Rivens. Now that they are limited, people wil be even more selective and the prices for top tier weapon Rivens will explode, making them impossible to get by trade for the majority of players who do not have several thousands of platinum in their pockets, and the Riven mods for low tier weapons will be almost impossible to sell or trade.

 

 

*Oh and Tennos, could you please stop complaining that DE is not listening, ok? Provocating them won't help as they already have stuff to work on (and Riven is already one of them, I'm sure). No answer doesn't mean no consideration.

Edited by Blade_Wolf_16
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So I like the idea behind Riven but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

1. The stats are too random. There shouldn't be negative base damage and multishot multipliers. critical chance on weapons with 5% or less base critical chance shouldn't happen or should be additive. Same with status.

2. Dispositions need to have more impact. Top tier weapons are still getting massive buffs from Riven mods even at the lowest dispositions resulting in people still largely ignoring low to mid tear weapons. 

3. Rerolls need a cap or we need to be able to do something with useless rivens. Maybe an option to relock and reroll the mod for some price. Another option is being able to transmute two for a new mod.

4. They are too damn rare. I don't care if you allow us to buy one from Baro once every two weeks or give us a weekly mission but we need another option for obtaining them.Maybe we can split the difference and Baro can give us a high level mission when he comes like Mario or Darvo. 

5. The pool is too big and getting bigger. With the sheer number of weapons currently in game the odds of getting a Riven are astronomically low and about to get lower. I am not saying let us chose the weapon but at least give us a way to weight it in our favor.

6. The effects are pretty boring. You guys have been coming out with more and more unique weapons and mods but you limit rivens to the most vanilla of effects. I want Sniper rivens with increased combo duration, launchers with increased blast radius, bows with exploding arrows. You said yourself, the game isn't going to be balanced around rivens so why not make them more fun. 

7. I agree with what seems to be the majority of the forums community. The price is a bit high and compounded by only offering a bundle.

Edited by xRufus7x
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Disclaimer: The only thing I find in any way positive or beneficial about Rivens is the unveiling challenges, in concept.
I loathe, abhor and despise everything they - and their current implementation (See xRufus7x's post, above.) - represent.

Quoting myself, from the first Dev Workshop, since my opinion hasn't changed:

 
On 11/15/2016 at 2:06 AM, Chroia said:
On 11/15/2016 at 1:04 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style.
.....
The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’. For those of you who want to find the best Mod possible, that avenue is available to you, but that is not the goal behind this system.

Using mods to band aid revisit out-powercreeped weapons is a fine idea, but this just doesn't work.
The reason most weapons are abandoned is that they can't keep up (with Sortie level content, for the purposes of this discussion), statwise.
When the only thing they offer is straight stats, giving me anything that isn't 'damage and' won't cut it.

For example, I'd love to use my Glaxion more. I've got, I think 5 forma on it. But the rate of fire utterly murders the weapon if you're at all planning on killing stuff with it.
-----
Compare and contrast with the Syndicate weapon augments. The blandest of them add 'damage and' the Proc effect, and even then you still rarely see anyone running around with a Skana, Mire, etc.
The ones that see use either bump up good weapons to even better *cough all the Steel Meridian augments cough*, or give bad weapons something new, as with Winds of Purity or all the Suda augments (though most of them don't see use anymore either).

As to weapons abandoned for mechanical reasons, such as the Mutalist Quanta, Paracyst, Miter, Ballistica, etc. - these mods do absolutely nothing about that.
-----
 

On 11/15/2016 at 1:04 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

What they can do is add an interesting buff to a comparatively underpowered weapon in order to encourage players to think outside of that meta box.
.....
We have started to add quirks to weapons, as shown with the recent Syndicate Melees, and this is supposed to be a continuation of that train of thought: we want players to be able to use their weapons in new ways that typical builds don’t encourage or allow.

I like the trend of differentiation via quirks instead of vertical power, but again - it doesn't work in this format.

With a handful of exceptions, bonuses from mods are percentile.
If a weapon has the stats to support a damage/crit/status build, the tools we already have suffice.
But giving me +300% crit chance/damage on my Miter, or +300% status on a Braton (5% base) makes effectively no difference.

I got a mod that gives me punchthrough, zoom and increased damage vs. Corpus and -100%ish crit chance on my Gorgon, another that gives +% max ammo and reload speed to the Synapse. How does this make them play differently?

And as long as these mods remain a percent of the base stat, "sane" values (read: around the values of existing mods, and the sanity of some of those is - at best - suspect) of straight stats will never change how a weapon plays.
At best, you'll get a combo of some mods you already use, which will let you stack up or replace something for more damage (assuming non-meta weapon).

I mean, give me a weapon that grants a flat +50% status to... idk, the Ignis? The Panthera? The Hind, Ogris, Rubico (just to name a few)? Suddenly those weapons play completely different (well, except the Rubico).

Give me a mod that grants a flat +% crit... actually, nevermind that.

Give me a +% flight speed, 'explodes on return' and -#bounces Glaive P mod, I'd be ecstatic... because I could replace 3 mods with 1, meaning I might actually be able to do some damage with it.
And then I'd realize that all you did was bandaid the problem with a mod instead of addressing the root issue. Again.
And I'd be pissed. Again.

Sigh.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

In our first Riven workshop we stated that the maximum is a reflection of our desire to encourage creativity and choice.

Say 'choice'? Fine, I get that.
It's mostly a no-brainer (keep good stuff, sell okay or desirable stuff, trash crap you can't sell), but it's not rapacious hoarding. 'k.
But 'creativity'? That still smacks of bullcrap. Rivens - let alone the 15 limit - don't encourage any kind of creativity from the players.

But as long as Rivens remain outside the balance considerations (read: NOT mandatory), I'm fine with selling more slots for them, even at what seems to me an inflated price.

-----

3 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

As you may have already heard, we plan to include Secondary Rivens with our 19.5 update but if possible, we’ll also include Shotgun Rivens!

Don't care.

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

Our current plan is to include these new Mods in the Sortie reward pool so that if you receive a Riven reward, it has a chance of being either a Rifle, Shotgun, or Secondary Riven.

I, personally, have done every single sortie since TWW, with 1 exception. I've gotten 3 Rivens. (Full disclosure, I've sold one, rerolled another to a decent set - which I use, and ignored the third.)
I know 2 people who've gotten none at all.

So, and bear with me here, instead of whittling down the chances of a Riven drop, you could remove Nitain, 2k Endo, and potentially either Greater or lesser lenses.
But I guess it really comes down to how much penetration you want them to have versus how much you're striving to limit the number of rolls (to minimize the absolute number of 'free' good rolls).
Which seems to say something about how you see the Riven system, but hey, that's probably just me being cynical.

Edited by Chroia
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9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Cash201293 said:

Do shotguns really need Rivens? There is literally on one shotgun that dont stand with the others in terms of dmg & that's the Contrivex. 

Most of the shotguns are mid tier with the glaring exception of the Tigris series.

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