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[DE]Drew

Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 3!

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"Creativity and choice" in this game is none existent as this game. OK, I can colour my frame, but that is it.

The Riven Mod are another sub-system, which patches up some some old problems, instead of tackling with it. The weapon balancing is also random, which is the problem and it won't be solved by new mods. You just open up new problems. I guarantee Riven Mods will allow combination you have nerf/remove, because it was not expected to be used that way.

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4 minutes ago, Bravely_Casual said:

They didnt limit the number of Rivens to limit creativity. They limited them because of the unfathomable strain the number of permutations Rivens puts on the system. The only thing more laughable than excuses is your ignorance.

No, this is called bad design.

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If the whole community was posting here just like me "so, DE, what's your next move to apply some of the hundreds ideas we've submitted?", I think they would answer. Which would suit us.

 

Now, your moves, guys.

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7 hours ago, NewMilenium said:

If the whole community was posting here just like me "so, DE, what's your next move to apply some of the hundreds ideas we've submitted?", I think they would answer. Which would suit us.

 

Now, your moves, guys.

With the recent track record of additions to this game I am sure that their answer to this question wouldn't please anybody.

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Once the storage and server load problem with the Rivens will be solved, it would be good to have more effects diversity: IPS conversion (PVP-like), Holster rate, Hush, Ammo Mutation, Firestorm, Sinister Reach for related weapon classes (+AoE wouldn't be applied to non-AoE weapon while Hush wouldn't be applied to explosive, same goes for Beam mods). Not saying it's a necessary thing, but it would be good, you know what they say: «different strokes for different folks» -- some players want highest RoF for Twipers DPS, some want as much damage on the weapon as possible and some players just want to free some space by using a 3-in-1 Riven with damage-related or utility effects.

 

In fact, while I'm glad to see a disposition system it doesn't really balance/buff the weapons:

Riven mods won't increase the popularity of guns like Stag, Buzlok, Miter, Panthera, Glaxion (though, this gun has its own issues, starting from with drunk accuracy and ending up with status/sec mechanics) and most of the sentinel's weapons. Sure, the Rivens do help some low-tier weapons to be worth to use on higher levels, but for some other weapons Rivens' help does nothing.

Actually, same goes for many weapons that have less than a 10% crit-% or a Status.

You'd think that you could make a crit-based Supra, Miter or crit-/status-based Tiberon? Nope, you can't. But even if you will put crit-mods what will happen:

Weapons like Miter or Panthera don't have crit-stats in the first place, so they are out of the table.

Let's say... Supra. Supra has 2.5%/x1.5 crits -- and yet no way you can make a crit-gun. +200% Crit-% (haven't seen a crit-% Riven with higher than 2xx%) will simply make it 7.5%. Status? Well, yeah, there's an augment that adds flat status, but even so the other status-affecting mods will apply to its base 5% Status. Unless you put more 60/60% mods + Augment + Multi + Multi/Status Riven the gun will be used for raw damage.

Tiberon has the same problem: 5%/x2.0 crits and 2.5% Status. No way modding it for crits even with the current Rivens would encourage build creativity, you are still limited to Raw damage/Crits/Status. And I don't think many players prefer Utility stats over damage, so they will look for +Damage, +Multishot, +IPS, +Bane.

I think there should be a special disposition class for some really underused and problematic weapons in which crit-% and status-% would have flat values working as the base (not like the Supra's mod does): Miter with its high Status and let's say 25% Crit would definitely be much more interesting to play with. Otherwise, I don't see how the Rivens can fix the weapon's issues unless the weapon gets its stats buffed or a flat value for stats.

 

And as for utility part of the Rivens.

I agree with Faint disposition balances, but I think as a trade-off for being Faint it would be fair if the Faint Rivens had higher utility stats: mag size, reload speed, recoil (not including RoF and Punch-Through effects) compared to damage-related stats to make it worth to use in the first place (unless you got a Riven that makes Soma red-crit or your Dread would crit with rainbow colours):

  • Strong: high values for both damage and utility stats.
  • Neutral: decent values for both damage and utility stats.
  • Faint: less damage-related stats and more utility.

You have a powerful weapon already -- better focus on its downsides to improve :clap:

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So after getting 15+ Riven mods I have only one question - what to do with them? Some of them are nice and powerful, maybe too powerful. But what to do with these powerful weapons? If I can run Sorties daily to farm Rivens I have good weapons already. So I got more powerful weapons to do more Sorties to farm more Rivens?

I think the main problem with such end-game mods is that we don't have anywhere to use them. We need content that will be hard even with these mods. Content where having Riven mods will be necessary.

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4 straight weeks now without a riven mod from sorties played everyday.

If I happen to get one in the future I may consider playing more than 3 missions and quitting each day.

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Nothing happening... slowly drifting away from Warframe. Farming kuva and cycling mods forever isn't fun. Only pure luck decides if you get something good, there is no advancement feeling (because there is no advancement at all, it's pure RNG).

 

Rivens were an excellent idea, a breath of fresh air. It's rotten now.

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13 hours ago, Mclags said:

Just get rid of this Riven system altogether. It made Warframe into a Slot Machine.

Fixing it is more constructive, more useful, better for the game.

There has been tons of excellent feedbacks in those "New Mods part 1!" "New Mods part 2!" "New Mods part 3!" topics. The solutions are proposed, that's months they are.

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1 hour ago, NewMilenium said:

Fixing it is more constructive, more useful, better for the game.

Better for the game? Farming tokens just to click reroll makes the game better? And even if you got the "perfect" riven for that weapon you like it is still subpar to a newer released weapon without a riven.

The only mod that made me use an older weapon was Tether Grenades. It changed how the Penta worked and made it actually fun to use.

Mods like that is what Warframe needs. Mods that change the how weapons work rather than RANDOM stat boosts.

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I always wondered why the Riven mods aren't applied to the primary and secondary weapons (& almost forgot) sentinels in the same way as the Aura Slot/Exilus adapter is applied to the Warframe? 

This would give more end game appeal and flexibility overall, all while maintaining the 'prestige' of the Riven Mod. In turn, I'm sure that those of us with (a few >,< ) more than 15 weapons would end up buying just as many extra Riven slots. 

Finally with a entirely different type of (Aura/Exilus/Riven/???) slot for melee weapons!!!!.. which you could probably charge for in the same manner. 

 

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чему бы не сделать фреима с умениями тяжелого ударного фреима с пулеметом  М-134 или ракетницами из земли типо земля воздух

 

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5 hours ago, oxalispescaprae said:

I'm wondering when will melee rivens be announced, also warframe rivens (hopefully that will never happen though)

Melee rivens were officially announced a couple devstreams ago, and will be implemented "Soon™".

As Warframe's going, I expect that Warframe rivens are inevitable. :|

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On 19/03/2017 at 1:02 AM, Chroia said:

As Warframe's going, I expect that Warframe rivens are inevitable. :|

Don't count on it, Drew said during last nights ps4 stream that they weren't likely due to potential game breaking by making frames too powerful etc.

As to riven mods, I still don't see a need for them (not that rng seems to give me many), the current requirements of kuva to reroll are just too excessive plus kuva (ANOTHER unnecessary resource) farming is just as tedious/annoying as cryotic for me personally and the prices for rivens on trade is just stupid because for some reason they are seen as being needed.... 

Personally I'd rather have seen the dev's spend the time they spent on riven mods on a proper set of balance passes rather than adding rivens in first to 'fix' the problem that is caused due to the balance of the game weapons etc.

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Possibly not Warframe rivens - We can only hope. (Primed Pressure Point wasn't supposed to happen either. *shrug*)
Not too optimistic, but thank you for the heads up - I don't watch the PS4 stream.

 

19 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Personally I'd rather have seen the dev's spend the time they spent on riven mods on a proper set of balance passes rather than adding rivens in first to 'fix' the problem that is caused due to the balance of the game weapons etc.

Amen to that.

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On 4/5/2017 at 11:51 AM, LSG501 said:

Don't count on it, Drew said during last nights ps4 stream that they weren't likely due to potential game breaking by making frames too powerful etc.

As to riven mods, I still don't see a need for them (not that rng seems to give me many), the current requirements of kuva to reroll are just too excessive plus kuva (ANOTHER unnecessary resource) farming is just as tedious/annoying as cryotic for me personally and the prices for rivens on trade is just stupid because for some reason they are seen as being needed.... 

Personally I'd rather have seen the dev's spend the time they spent on riven mods on a proper set of balance passes rather than adding rivens in first to 'fix' the problem that is caused due to the balance of the game weapons etc.

could you imagine an equinox with even more range? that would be op, but in a good way

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On 05/04/2017 at 5:51 PM, LSG501 said:

Personally I'd rather have seen the dev's spend the time they spent on riven mods on a proper set of balance passes rather than adding rivens in first to 'fix' the problem that is caused due to the balance of the game weapons etc.

Sadly balancing stuff doesn't make as much money as rivens do

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--------- Mod-Slots are nothing new -----------

Riven as a item content, for a game, to improve weapons with 'random-stats' is nothing new. Your 300* weapons stay at 300*, with or without rivens.

A low 'tier' weapon with riven vs a high 'tier' weapon with riven, can not get on the higher 'tiers' range. Simple as that. Superior stays superior. 'Tier'- bounded.

WF gear improvment system(s)/mechanic(s) are veeeery limited compared to other mmo's systems/mechanics. Mods are also absolutly nothing new. Just another name for the same improvment stuff other mmo's use like 'stones/shards/crystals/...'

Those have also 'slots' on gear and weapons. Adding stats and/or side effects. Equal until this point. Then they start to differ. In WF you get waaay less ways for gear improvments. You get on a frame 8 +2 slots, guns 8 slots melee 8+1 slots. Total amount of 10+8+9 = 27 slots. While in some other mmo's they have on each 'gear-item' (Helmet/Gloves/Shoes/Armor/ Cloak/ Belt/ Mask/... and on costums  2-5  slots and on Weapons 2-4 + 2-4 special slots to place in stats/side-effect(s) adding gear improvment items. Total amount of 8 × 5= 40 + 8 = 48 slots for improvments. But STOP. Those games have also 'skill mods' for every single active skill on a 'unit' which are at minimim 14. Those 'skill mods' are even stackable...so 14 × 10 (10 skill mods stacked over each) = 

Some other mmo's slots for improvments 140 + 48 = 188 slots vs 27 WF slots...

After reaching skill max lvl10 or 20 or 30 (depending on skill), additional skill cards, allows a player to go beyond this lvl and 'add' additional increasing multiplicators of the next skill lvl  (stackable and placed equipted direct on the skill) exc.:

playguide02_3.jpg

 

WF mods give a 'user' a illusion of deppness without actualy doing so but looking 'fresh-modern'. Elemental combining and ressistances are nothing new at all. This mmo's with above said  '188+ total 'improvment slots', got that 12+ years ago... 

 

------- Random bonus stats Numbers -------

On items, esp. on weapons is also nothing new. Like 9 years ago some mmo's got them as "Dura- Gear/-Item".

So actualy compared to WF, the frame could add bonus random stats & side-effects on every single gear-part item inside the 'unit', well... in other mmo's. Not adding here 'Set-Bonus' (1 weapon and same gear could apear in 30+ different set typs) offering additional bonus side effects/stats on each single weapon/gear part(s)...

 

- Why need to point this all out?

WF lacks to deliver 1 clean finished game content with deeper thoughts. If other games had ZERO problems to add random 'stats' to theire belonging items... 9 years ago... with way more total weapons plus additional set-bonus stats/side-effects...

Why is WF today NOT able to add this item with ease... ??

Half backed. Tweaking arround lil things like there is no real point of improvment to make. Realy?! Riven show up a real problem...the game isn't prepared for such items...no deeper thoughts...

 

------------- Finish the Riven System -----------

Some players here, posting suggestions... 

they actualy DID the job of DE to get this 'riven-system' into the right direction to gain finishing status:

- Riven catagories apear after triggering the Riven reward:

Screen like in fissures pops up and shows Primary/ Secondary/ Melee/ Companions

Everyone in Squad pick 'his' personal actualy wanted path to go.

Everyone get a Riven typ he choosed. End of story. Still RNG enough to NOT get one Riven for a high 'tier' weapon or a player does not want/like.

 

----------------------- Wondering ----------------------

I still wonder why we cant 'fusion' 2 same weapon typs to improve a weapon additionaly. More ress used, more credits used more item sinking in general...

Nvm... DE has to wake up. Improve the core of WF and start to ffs focus the game. Use what is already there. No new weapons or frames that actualy adds nothing to the gameplay improvments and just for the 'moment' adds something to do/ have fun with before boringness hits in again... Deeper thoughts and handing out completed contents. No rushing please...quality!!!

 

1 random stats generating mod, is complex? How can this following random stats (Purple colored) on much more different gears and much more different weapons 9 years ago happen to work? And a lot more total amount of different randome stats/side-effects ??Perfectly as intended... rivens are a joke compared to all that RNG generated stats! 

latest_21.png

Edited by P0Pz

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