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Suddenly I have a lot more of understanding of how DE develop Warframe (video inside)


Artekkor
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I highly recommend watching this 9 minute-long video. It perfectly describes Warframe and the way it was developed over the years.
Perhaps it will help you to open your eyes and allow you to find peace with parts of Warframe you are not particularly happy with.

 

Too Long - Didn't Watch (TL:DW) version

Spoiler

DE follow a "Accretion" game design model.
"Accretion" means "the process of growth or increase, typically by the gradual accumulation of additional layers or matter".
This means that instead of refining core elements of the game to the point of perfectionism - DE constantly slaps new mechanics and content over old one in order to keep the game alive and interesting.

Despite how silly if not insane this design model sounds at first glance - that's actually a legit one, used not only by Warframe but by some other F2P games too (don't know any though, but otherwise such video wouldn't exist, right?).

As everything in this world - this strategy comes with its own strong sides and flows, that are fairly explained in the video, and i can already tell that i see some of those flaws in Warframe.

I don't know if this is worth of discussion, more like a PSA of sorts, but as i said - it allows for a better understanding of how DE (and Warframe) work. And perhaps you will finally find peace with it (or hate it even more knowing that with 99% chance its not going to change anytime soon).

Edited by Artek94
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14 minutes ago, Akavakaku said:

" instead of refining core elements "

Core elements such as basic damage elements, melee mechanics, Prime farming, mod upgrading, warframe power modding, solar system navigation... those core elements?

Who said they are core ones?
As far as i'm concerned the only core element is: KILL STUFF. KILL IT MORE. KILL IT FASTER.

Out of 6 things you mentioned only "basic damage elements and modding" actually directly impact core gameplay of killing enemies.

Prime Farming never was considered by me a "core element". Nor is solar system navigation. (both of which are fine by me since i don't experience any obvious issues with them)

Edited by Artek94
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10 minutes ago, Megakruemel said:

Yeah but have you ever played any other free to play game?

It has been a while, since i could play an MMO that was not forcing me to pay for stuff.

Irrelevant. 

Typical F2P MMO don't force you to pay for stuffs they just use gear race to enthrone whales, you will feel very jelly and be tempted to pay to catch up.

WF have 2 mechanics to ensure that the population pays for the game, slot cost and prime vaulting. Prime vaulting is a semi gear race, it maintains player count as the main purpose and indirectly makes money off people who cannot farm in the time limit. 

Edited by Volinus7
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23 minutes ago, Akavakaku said:

" instead of refining core elements "

Core elements such as basic damage elements, melee mechanics, Prime farming, mod upgrading, warframe power modding, solar system navigation... those core elements?

Well they did refine "prime farming" "mod upgrading" (via endo) and "solar system navigation". The whole rest, they didn't touch it at all. (unless maybe "warframe power modding" by removing the ability mod, but there are way bigger issues)

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2 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Irrelevant. 

Typical F2P MMO don't force you to pay for stuffs they just use gear race to enthrone whales, you will feel very jelly and be tempted to pay to catch up.

WF have 2 mechanics to ensure that the population pays for the game, slot cost and prime vaulting. 

Yeah but getting platinum for slots (and other things) is incredibly easy in WF. And the only thing vaulting is locking you out of is cosmetics.

Gear races in other MMOs normally completely lock you out of the endgame since you are "not allowed" to go on raids because you are "under-geared". On top of that, there is PvP which whales just completely dominate, while in WF you can dominate in PvP and PvE without ever buying any plat ever.

Slots are fine and dandy but it comes down to luxary if you have more than the basic ammount. Plus- like i said, you can just get plat through trading, which is something other games just don't offer.

I would like it, if this thread would not derail in the typical "DE is cancer for offering platinum purchases, we should get everything for free"-discussion.

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2 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Someone posted this video, again?

What, someone posted it before? If yes - then i'm sorry. But i felt like it was something worth of spreading.
It's much easier to live with knowledge of how something works instead of going "this @#$%^ is broken, they have no idea what they're doing" (even though its actually you who don't get the bigger picture)

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8 minutes ago, OHKOBunny said:

Why do we have access to all this stuff that's "against the rules?" It's not in the guidelines so I'm just wondering where you got this information

(Creating a thread with an inflammatory, misleading, or otherwise inappropriate title. "Megathread" and "PSA" tags are also not permitted, as they are reserved for DE staff and Community Moderators only.)

in the guidelines

Edited by HerpDerpy
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Just now, HerpDerpy said:

(Creating a thread with an inflammatory, misleading, or otherwise inappropriate title. "Megathread" and "PSA" tags are also not permitted, as they are reserved for DE staff and Community Moderators only.)

in the guidelines

I wasn't trying to be a smartass I legitimately didn't see it

I still dunno why we have the option to make them if we're not allowed to tho xD

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2 minutes ago, OHKOBunny said:

I wasn't trying to be a smartass I legitimately didn't see it

I still dunno why we have the option to make them if we're not allowed to tho xD

Dunno, outdated Forums software that doesnt allow Tags to be given to certain usergroups only? :P

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Just now, OHKOBunny said:

I wasn't trying to be a smartass I legitimately didn't see it

I still dunno why we have the option to make them if we're not allowed to tho xD

because if you ban or censor certain words and phrases then people cant even mention them at all. people wouldn't be able to talk about or mention psa or mega threads without being coy about it. like instead of mega thread they would have to say "that one post that is talking about ___ that ___ made" it just complicates things.

 

anyways, back on topic.

adding new content is basically the only way to keep a game alive for long periods of time. if all you do is improve a game and polish it then most of the playerbase will say "alright so the game is better but there's nothing new to do." even if there is daily repeatable content, no matter how good it is, people will get bored of it.

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3 minutes ago, HerpDerpy said:

adding new content is basically the only way to keep a game alive for long periods of time. if all you do is improve a game and polish it then most of the playerbase will say "alright so the game is better but there's nothing new to do." even if there is daily repeatable content, no matter how good it is, people will get bored of it.

Good point. I always thought that being "refined" and "perfect" is a thing that only AAA projects do. Something that you buy for 50$, play once and then forget.
Like "Dark Souls" or "Dead Space".
And maybe some popular competitive games like CS:GO

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speaking for myself only, id really like if they just slowed down new content and started refreshing old content/mechanics.
The game lacks replayability and challenge., but i have to admit i have nothing to say about their F2P method which is one of the best ever seen for this kind of games.

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19 minutes ago, HerpDerpy said:

adding new content is basically the only way to keep a game alive for long periods of time. if all you do is improve a game and polish it then most of the playerbase will say "alright so the game is better but there's nothing new to do." even if there is daily repeatable content, no matter how good it is, people will get bored of it.

MRyFS9v.gif

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30 minutes ago, Barkano said:

MRyFS9v.gif

Because its hard both financially and with limited staff.

Actually i believe they are already trying to do both, but new content is obviously is a priority. Old stuff is probably being fixed in the little free time as a homework or only very few people work on it so the efficiency is not very good. But little progress is better than no progress at all.

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Huh, I guess we are playing different Warframe's then.    Seems to me they are both adding new content and polishing up the old stuff.   Update section goes back 3 years with a general list of whats been done.    Proof enough of both.

And the salt from players crying over anything costing money...      F2P does not mean everything in the game is free.   Everything that is NEEDED to play the game is free.  On the other hand, DE wants to pay the bills, and we want the game to continue, income has to come from somewhere.    It will be from those extra's above and beyond whats needed to play the game.  

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Just now, _Vortus_ said:

Huh, I guess we are playing different Warframe's then.    Seems to me they are both adding new content and polishing up the old stuff.   Update section goes back 3 years with a general list of whats been done.    Proof enough of both.

And the salt from players crying over anything costing money...      F2P does not mean everything in the game is free.   Everything that is NEEDED to play the game is free.  On the other hand, DE wants to pay the bills, and we want the game to continue, income has to come from somewhere.    It will be from those extra's above and beyond whats needed to play the game.  

Well it is obvious that they are both adding new and refining old (sometimes and some of it) but new content is a priority and we already can see post-signs of this system such as intense power creep recently, hell ton of different resources (and introduction of new one every couple of months) and their weakness in the tutorial department.
I mean: they DO make tutorials, but they are not always very clear. It took me 30 seconds before i realized you have to Hold 5 instead of pressing it once during TWW quest.

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5 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

Well it is obvious that they are both adding new and refining old (sometimes and some of it) but new content is a priority and we already can see post-signs of this system such as intense power creep recently, hell ton of different resources (and introduction of new one every couple of months) and their weakness in the tutorial department.
I mean: they DO make tutorials, but they are not always very clear. It took me 30 seconds before i realized you have to Hold 5 instead of pressing it once during TWW quest.

They are refining old each and every update.   Maybe not in the order some players think they should, but it's DE's game and they have their own priorities and reasons.    Have you not seen the threads on new weapons that are not bigger/better/shinier?     In case not, general  consensus seems to be they "suck" even though they are not better, nor worse than older weapons, just different.   Even if the weapon is a side-grade to a good weapon rather than an upgrade, they get upset.  .Those not so bigger/better/shinier weapons are overshadowed by the few that are bigger/better/shinier.  

Not real sure what the issue is with new resources as well.  They are a reason to play the game.   Simple as that.   Play is the operative word there.    If viewed as a chore, thats a mindset choice. 

Tutorials need work still.   Though I don't consider taking 30 seconds to figure something out anywhere near a long time.   While the tutorials are lacking, they are better than before.  Barring the first day of newly introduced content, plenty of other resources for players to figure out stuff they need help with.  Most of the time the information is available within hours.   Most games the player provided guides are superior to the in game tutorials anyway.

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The video pretty much describes de. Though it was already evident as this was brought up 2 years ago regarding how de back at that time were addressing the game as poorly as they are now. I also believe Totalbiscuit addressed this too a long time ago, "Ruins, built upon ruins, built upon ruins". 

2 hours ago, Artek94 said:

Good point. I always thought that being "refined" and "perfect" is a thing that only AAA projects do. Something that you buy for 50$, play once and then forget.
Like "Dark Souls" or "Dead Space".
And maybe some popular competitive games like CS:GO

You listed two "Story" driven games. Story games are a one time experience. CS:GO... have you checked steam stats yet? Not to your taste but non-story based game survive long and very easily. Take for example... Warframe. Literally this game. By denying the story and using it as a sort of "Carrot" we as the "Horse" move towards it, yet at all times de will keep it out of reach. By doing this they make up for their lack of new systems and rapid releases by combining both. Occasionally one or twice a year they will "fix" something they've left behind but this is usually the case of them attempting to slow down power creep by re-releasing old stuff with re-works in replacement of just throwing more new stuff which would pile on the power creep faster. 

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