Javlok feedback.

[Multicom-EN-]

Make the primary fire have AOE effect. Using Heavy Caliber could make for some great fun then. Make it so you can hold the charge like you can on other weapons.

[0meg4x]

The Javlok is a very interesting weapon in my opinion, that's some Good Job right there.

 

I don't think the Primary fire mode should be Hold and Release because this would affect the weapon's fire rate. 

To be honest, I wish the weapon didn't need to Charge this shot even though it's only 0.3s, because this plus the weapon's proyectile having Flight Time and not having AoE just doesn't feel right to me xD.

I think the Primary fire mode should at least have 1m AoE though.

 

Holding and Releasing would be one of two nice additions to the Secondary fire mode though, to hold the Spear and take your time before throwing it so you don't deal damage to yourself by accident.

The second addition would be: To be able to use the Alt fire while Reloading. The weapon doesn't seem to use Ammo for it so... Why not?

 

Secondary fire is awesome, it has some really good Range (Firestorm installed).

It would be nice if the time before the weapon returns automatically was decreased too, because it can get to unreachable places easy xD.

Or maybe just increase the range at which you can pickup the weapon.

 

Edit: I Have been using the Javlok for the lasts few days and I can't seem to stop destroying myself with it in one hit, the damage is SO INSANELY HIGH! My Valkyr can't handle it.

 

I wish it didn't do as much self damage but... Whatcha gonna do? Still like this weapon to "death".

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by 0meg4x

[Cradicias]

So, the Javlok just came out today and I've now leveled it twice (putting some Forma into it, cause I feel I'mma like it a lot). That being said, I've seen some glaring issues and stuff that I'd like to see changed with the weapon.

1) The primary fire is difficult to hit with against most targets and is, when compared with the alternate fire, pointless. When you take into consideration that the Javlok requires the Ignis research to be done first, it also makes it seem kind of odd. Yeah, I get it's a fireball and the Ignis is a flamethrower, but, the two aren't all that connected. 

Option A: I'd say, turn the fireball into a close range fire burst, like a shotgun spread of fire. This would somewhat fix the complaints I've already seen from people that it's hard to hit with it since you have to charge it and it instantly fires on full charge, not letting us hold it like a bow to release it precisely when we want. Shotgun spread is much easier to hit with as you just need to aim in the general direction and would make sense for a spear based off a flamethrower. With the small magazine and long reload time, it makes more sense to treat the gun like a shotgun anyways.

Option B: Straight up make the primary fire a continuous damage attack, a shorter range version of the Ignis. This would also fix the prior mentioned complaints as well as give it a cool, kind of magic staff feel.

2) The alternate fire button. I've gotta say, I'm not a big fan of the alternate fire button (especially as I can't assign it to mouse button 2, since that's my melee channel button for when I'm in melee mode and that prevents me from channeling... for some reason).

Option C: If option A or B for problem 1 was used, I'd say make it so that instead of having an alternate fire, you instead simply make it so that when the aim button is pushed, primary fire becomes a charged (and holdable) way to throw the weapon. Seeing as that's the only time you'd need precision if the weapon was changed to be a close range attack. Alternately (and this is purely something I'd like), fix the bindings so that melee channel and alternate fire button can be the same button (as there are no melee weapons that use alternate fire... I think >.<)

3) Punch Through. So, if you run with Shred or Metal Auger on this weapon, you'll constantly find yourself without a weapon to use for long stretches of time. It'll go right through the floor a good 33 meters in some places. 

Example

:

Option D: Think Punch Through needs some parameter changes. Like, only count floors/walls for the primary fire and enemies exclusively for the throw. That way, people aren't losing their Javlok for a minute or so.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Cradicias

[sappinmahsentry]

OK, so the Javlok is great and deals some nice damage. It's a fun weapon to use and it looks amazing. But there are some issues that I really wanna see fixed. Firstly, throwing it is damn useless at higher levels. Thanks to throwing the spear dealing almost the same exact amount of damage as your primary fire for some stupid reason. I suggest the thrown damage is increased to at least 3x the base amount. Next, there are some bugs that need to be fixed with the weapon, you can find them on warframe wiki. I also feel as if the projectiles shoot slightly off center. Other than that I think the weapon is fine. Although a crit damage or just regular damage buff would be much appreciated.

Ending this post I wanna say something, thank you for making these fresh, new, fun, and viable weapons.

Edited December 17, 2016 by sappinmahsentry
Thanks.

[Synpai]

I find it annoying that I have to go pick it up. Makes me not want to throw it unless there's just one enemy. Least my primary be stranded among fire eximus units for an eternity.

They could've made the throwing damage based on ammo, made it throw instead of reloading (ammo you have is consumed), and just make it magically return to you.

AKA. A Tediore weapon

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/borderlands/images/2/2f/Tediore_pistol_reload.gif/revision/latest?cb=20140304015127

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/borderlands/images/2/23/Tediore_launcher_reload.gif/revision/latest?cb=20140304021111

Edited December 17, 2016 by Synpai

[XaelathRavenstorm]

ISSUES:

• sometimes you can't pick it up on the floor for no apparent reason
• alternate fire isn't rewarding to use(needs AOE and damage increase)
• when the host is crappy sometimes picking it up doesn't auto equip it, you need to switch back which we know is very clunky

 

[Starwake]

so i have been playing with the javloc and found it to be realy fun. but after awhile kind clunky while using the primary fire and having to reload all the time with the low magazine size. and when the mag hits zero it wont let me thow the wwepon while reloading or when i fire the last shot. So i was wondering it would be cool if it had no reload and a smaller ammo pool that could regeneratr over time like the arch wing weps or hae just one big ammo pool like bows where each arrow is reloaded on each draw. speaking of that the javloc has a charge time already and seems like this should be a feature. i think this wepond has alot of potential but the primary fire just seems kinda clunky to take on single targets and only having a 6 round mag and a 2.2 reload make it very limited in a primary wepon. im interested in what everyone else thinks and what the devs think aswell

[Hixlysss]

Just now, Starwake said:

so i have been playing with the javloc and found it to be realy fun. but after awhile kind clunky while using the primary fire and having to reload all the time with the low magazine size. and when the mag hits zero it wont let me thow the wwepon while reloading or when i fire the last shot. So i was wondering it would be cool if it had no reload and a smaller ammo pool that could regeneratr over time like the arch wing weps or hae just one big ammo pool like bows where each arrow is reloaded on each draw. speaking of that the javloc has a charge time already and seems like this should be a feature. i think this wepond has alot of potential but the primary fire just seems kinda clunky to take on single targets and only having a 6 round mag and a 2.2 reload make it very limited in a primary wepon. im interested in what everyone else thinks and what the devs think aswell

Yeah, it does have a oddly low mag count, it doesn't seam to do that much damage for how small it's mag is. It needs either faster reload, or more mag size. It does have a nice charge rate, and would be interesting for us to have a non archwing primary that recharges ammo. Would kinda fit with the weapon's whole "THROW ME AT THEM!" thing it has going.

[Starwake]

i think if they made it work more like bow it would be alot better charging each shot and having around the same amout of ammo as bows do. but it seems odd having a carge and reload mechanic for the spear gun. Then i think it would give alot more better feel for using the primary fire for single targets and throwing the spear to get rid of multiple target. 

[Archeyef]

I think you're right, yeah. Giving it a bow style ammo mechanic would give it a better feel.

[MushroomChevalier]

When the javlok was first shown in the last devstream I was ecstatic to finally see a spear weapon coming into the game. However, I wanted the spear itself to be a melee weapon rather than a primary, but I was willing to give it chance, it seemed very amazing at the time.

Now when I got the weapon I was surprised to see its stats but thought that it was reasonable for the mechanic where you have to pick up the spear after you throw it, which is weird cause don't we have a few melee weapons that return back to us after thrown? But I was willing to put that aside again and see how it would do in missions.

I quickly ranked it up and done Akkad with someone who had an affinity booster and went through it fast with a Nova and Banshee (BTW the damage of an unranked javlok did 80m damage to an ancient with that setup). Then I went on to the sorties with this newly attain and maxed weapon and boy oh boy was it useless.

The weapon itself does nothing to armored enemies even if you mod for corrosive and have corrosive projection on for that -30% armor.

Oh and how badly the Javlok gets murdered with Heavy Caliber from the negative accuracy. I only have mine at 8/10 rank cause I'm too lazy to put endo into certain items but even with that rank for Heavy Caliber it turned the accuracy of the Javlok from 100 to 2.1 accuracy. Now hopefully that is a bug, if it is then the weapon might be worthwhile to use; cause when you try to throw the weapon or even do the primary attack on it the bloody thing will do a V shaped shot with multishot and its only ever gone NEAR my reticle maybe 1/15 of all my shots. So I removed Heavy Caliber from my build and it can still kill, but only towards Trash levels (anything 30 and below).

I was very excited to see a spear come into the game after having this game for a few years now and was hoping that DE would have done it right, unfortunately they did not. 

If I were in charge of making the Javlok a better weapon overall I would keep the stats where they are at right now, there is nothing wrong with them. My problem, however, is the mechanics for it and the enormous negative coming from Heavy Caliber. 

Of course I would have the Heavy Caliber "bug" fixed, then I would have Javlok be a weapon where the amount of ammo represented the amount of spears you can throw at a given time. Example of that would be having the nominal amount of ammo as it is now(6), and allowing you to throw 6 Javloks one at a time without having to retrieve them and they can either not be picked back up and then you just pull some more out of your tenno blackhole, or have it where you only have around that amount of Javloks and you can pick them up before and/or when you lose ammo for them and having some sort of mechanic or mod that would allow you to have those Javloks explode on command and have them return back to you.

I personally see that has a massive improvement of the weapon itself since it doesn't force you to go into the heat of battle to retrieve your Javlok or wait a certain amount of time until it returns back to you(I believe its 10 seconds).

I also have another problem with the primary attack and the alternative attack making sense. The Primary is essentially a ball of fire coming out of the spear just hitting an enemy, its not exploding at all just a slow projectile going at an enemy and just laying its fire all over it. While the alternative attack gives off an exploding mechanic when it hits a surface, but doesnt make much sense cause shouldn't fire just come spilling out of the spear then?

I would change the Primary Attack into a short range blast of fire as if a small explosion had just taken place and damaging all nearby enemies. I would keep the Alternative Attack the same since that would give it more sense as an attack to explode when thrown, but also gives it that aspect that it can be used for medium-possible long range since you would use the stated Primary for close combat.

 

Ultimately, I believe it should have been a melee weapon from the very start with a pokey-pokey moveset and an alternative fire to throw it at enemies, if DE doesn't do anything else to make this weapon more viable other than Damage 3.0, which will probably never come just like Half-Life 3, then there really isn't much use for this weapon at all.

Edited December 17, 2016 by MushroomChevalier

[-QUILL_PETER-]

Also, you really should be able to call the Javlok back to you. I don;t want to sound salty, but is there any good reason you shouldn't? Thrown melees do, why shouldn't it. It would also be nice, alongside a much larger magazine, if it had an Ignis-like continuous alt-fire.

P.S.-I strongly recommend you NOT mod this for Multishot and Heavy Caliber

[Starwake]

i do agree on you with most points it does seem very clunky with its primary fire. and think it should work more like bows with its ammo economy and function. the reload mand low ammo just make this wepon seem so low. and when its time to relad you cane even thow the javloc. its just the combination of the low ammo and reload that make it feel so stange. 

[PaintedWolf]

9 minutes ago, Bravely_Casual said:

Also, you really should be able to call the Javlok back to you. I don;t want to sound salty, but is there any good reason you shouldn't? Thrown melees do, why shouldn't it. It would also be nice, alongside a much larger magazine, if it had an Ignis-like continuous alt-fire.

P.S.-I strongly recommend you NOT mod this for Multishot and Heavy Caliber

That would be cool, but I don't really think that's much an issue (least not for me). Thrown melees come back to you because they are meant to be like boomerangs. One of them is actually a boomerang in aesthetic. This weapon is a spear (javelin if you want to consider that name), something you are supposed to have to retrieve when it is thrown. Spears won't just magically come back to you, so I can understand their reasoning behind this.

 

That I can fully agree on. Heavy Caliber is impossible with the weapon, and I actually haven't tried multishot. A good Heavy Caliber replacement to add to the elemental base is Hellfire, however.

Edited December 17, 2016 by PaintedWolf

[Starwake]

i think this could also be improved my adding a aoe dot at where the spear lands alowing for the loss of the primary to effect targets that havent died by the thown progectile to be damage while waiting for the recorvory or rushing in to get it. but for me it somwhat i logical that it has to stay there because its a heavy spear and the thrown wepons are light enough to bounce around. but i think if they added some sord of damage over time after its thrown would make the mechanic really cool to use and not less spammy calling it back and repeating a loop of constantly throwing it.

[MushroomChevalier]

28 minutes ago, Starwake said:

i do agree on you with most points it does seem very clunky with its primary fire. and think it should work more like bows with its ammo economy and function. the reload mand low ammo just make this wepon seem so low. and when its time to relad you cane even thow the javloc. its just the combination of the low ammo and reload that make it feel so stange. 

 

I do agree with the reload time, it makes the weapon so must slower in such a fast paced game. If they made it faster then it would be more viable and it would be able to be used more often.

[Cradicias]

See this thread for more ideas and issues the Javlok has: 

 

[(PSN)mr_chainsaw555]

34 minutes ago, MushroomChevalier said:

When the javlok was first shown in the last devstream I was ecstatic to finally see a spear weapon coming into the game. However, I wanted the spear itself to be a melee weapon rather than a primary, but I was willing to give it chance, it seemed very amazing at the time.

Now when I got the weapon I was surprised to see its stats but thought that it was reasonable for the mechanic where you have to pick up the spear after you throw it, which is weird cause don't we have a few melee weapons that return back to us after thrown? But I was willing to put that aside again and see how it would do in missions.

I quickly ranked it up and done Akkad with someone who had an affinity booster and went through it fast with a Nova and Banshee (BTW the damage of an unranked javlok did 80m damage to an ancient with that setup). Then I went on to the sorties with this newly attain and maxed weapon and boy oh boy was it useless.

The weapon itself does nothing to armored enemies even if you mod for corrosive and have corrosive projection on for that -30% armor.

Oh and how badly the Javlok gets murdered with Heavy Caliber from the negative accuracy. I only have mine at 8/10 rank cause I'm too lazy to put endo into certain items but even with that rank for Heavy Caliber it turned the accuracy of the Javlok from 100 to 2.1 accuracy. Now hopefully that is a bug, if it is then the weapon might be worthwhile to use; cause when you try to throw the weapon or even do the primary attack on it the bloody thing will do a V shaped shot with multishot and its only ever gone NEAR my reticle maybe 1/15 of all my shots. So I removed Heavy Caliber from my build and it can still kill, but only towards Trash levels (anything 30 and below).

I was very excited to see a spear come into the game after having this game for a few years now and was hoping that DE would have done it right, unfortunately they did not. 

If I were in charge of making the Javlok a better weapon overall I would keep the stats where they are at right now, there is nothing wrong with them. My problem, however, is the mechanics for it and the enormous negative coming from Heavy Caliber. 

Of course I would have the Heavy Caliber "bug" fixed, then I would have Javlok be a weapon where the amount of ammo represented the amount of spears you can throw at a given time. Example of that would be having the nominal amount of ammo as it is now(6), and allowing you to throw 6 Javloks one at a time without having to retrieve them and they can either not be picked back up and then you just pull some more out of your tenno blackhole, or have it where you only have around that amount of Javloks and you can pick them up before and/or when you lose ammo for them and having some sort of mechanic or mod that would allow you to have those Javloks explode on command and have them return back to you.

I personally see that has a massive improvement of the weapon itself since it doesn't force you to go into the heat of battle to retrieve your Javlok or wait a certain amount of time until it returns back to you(I believe its 10 seconds).

I also have another problem with the primary attack and the alternative attack making sense. The Primary is essentially a ball of fire coming out of the spear just hitting an enemy, its not exploding at all just a slow projectile going at an enemy and just laying its fire all over it. While the alternative attack gives off an exploding mechanic when it hits a surface, but doesnt make much sense cause shouldn't fire just come spilling out of the spear then?

I would change the Primary Attack into a short range blast of fire as if a small explosion had just taken place and damaging all nearby enemies. I would keep the Alternative Attack the same since that would give it more sense as an attack to explode when thrown, but also gives it that aspect that it can be used for medium-possible long range since you would use the stated Primary for close combat.

 

Ultimately, I believe it should have been a melee weapon from the very start with a pokey-pokey moveset and an alternative fire to throw it at enemies, if DE doesn't do anything else to make this weapon more viable other than Damage 3.0, which will probably never come just like Half-Life 3, then there really isn't much use for this weapon at all.

how  can it be useless? 20% crit chance and 25% status, 235 heat damage with only a 2.2 second reload, on paper this seems like a fairly decent status/crit hybrid weapon that'd be devestating against the infested due to the fire damage, once that heavy caliber bug you mentioned gets fixed, this should be a pretty good addition to my arsenal

[MushroomChevalier]

Just now, (PS4)mr_chainsaw555 said:

how  can it be useless? 20% crit chance and 25% status, 235 heat damage with only a 2.2 second reload, on paper this seems like a fairly decent status/crit hybrid weapon that'd be devestating against the infested due to the fire damage, once that heavy caliber bug you mentioned gets fixed, this should be a pretty good addition to my arsenal

Its useless on high level armored units, I was surprised to see how low of a damage it did to them as well. If heavy Caliber does get fixed for that weapon then it would probably be viable towards armored units then. However, when I used it against armored units around 60+ I would have to chuck/shoot my Javlok 10-15 times with corrosive to actually kill it. Thats a 1-2 reload time to actually kill a single armored unit. 

[Cradicias]

1 minute ago, (PS4)mr_chainsaw555 said:

how  can it be useless? 20% crit chance and 25% status, 235 heat damage with only a 2.2 second reload, on paper this seems like a fairly decent status/crit hybrid weapon that'd be devestating against the infested due to the fire damage, once that heavy caliber bug you mentioned gets fixed, this should be a pretty good addition to my arsenal

Biggest problem it has going for it is that it doesn't let you hold your charge so you can throw it precisely when you want. And, since the reload is slow and the projectiles travel time is really slow, it's difficult to make your primary shots count.

See this thread for a breakdown on some changes I'd like to see: 

 

[MushroomChevalier]

1 minute ago, Cradicias said:

Biggest problem it has going for it is that it doesn't let you hold your charge so you can throw it precisely when you want. And, since the reload is slow and the projectiles travel time is really slow, it's difficult to make your primary shots count.

See this thread for a breakdown on some changes I'd like to see: 

 

I personally adapted to the Throw accuracy and it doesnt really affect me anymore however the primary fire is pretty hard to hit even at medium range for me but with the low amount of damage it does at higher levels I don't see why I should gamble a shot that could hit and do some damage.

[(PSN)mr_chainsaw555]

Just now, MushroomChevalier said:

Its useless on high level armored units

armor makes almost everything struggle against grineer, this isn't really a javlok-exclusive problem

 

3 minutes ago, Cradicias said:

Biggest problem it has going for it is that it doesn't let you hold your charge so you can throw it precisely when you want. And, since the reload is slow and the projectiles travel time is really slow, it's difficult to make your primary shots count.

so does the opticor, and it's one of my signature weapons, and almost every weapon i use has a 2 second reload,

and also, terminal velocity doesn't help with the travel time?

[(XBOX)Zhoyzuu]

yes lets try to get a discussion going when the general population has 3 days left til they can join you

[MushroomChevalier]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)mr_chainsaw555 said:

armor makes almost everything struggle against grineer, this isn't really a javlok-exclusive problem

 

so does the opticor, and it's one of my signature weapons, and almost every weapon i use has a 2 second reload,

and also, terminal velocity doesn't help with the travel time?

Just tested it with Terminal Velocity and it does make it considerably faster with both attacks. And with the armor situation I know that the scaling for it is pretty harsh but for some other weapons such as Tonkor and simulor they dont have much trouble until 80+ depending on the mod setup.

[skull755]

not everything has to be end game