The Telos Boltace should have a cooldown on its wave attack

[Dragazer]

26 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Really, never even noticed it was my stats page... if you were so willing for me to check yours out why didn't you just show it in the first place....whether I used it or not has no bearing on my issue with the weapon. 

Also it's funny that you're now resorting to the fact I haven't used it myself as a defence mechanism when my complaint is about how it affects OTHER PLAYERS when it's being used by someone else....you can try to say it isn't all you like but the simple fact is that when other people are using the weapon in the way shown in that video (and they do, I've seen plenty) it creates particle/noise spam which is annoying as anything and the damage side of things is as bad as the synoid simulor or any of the other weapons/frames that make it pointless for other people to be doing that level with the person using their 'solo mission' in a public group. 

Actually the problem with this forum isn't the people wanting things changed because they have a problem with a weapon/frame mechanic, it's those out there who can't actually see a problem with the weapons because they're worried it might actually make them have to work for their kills instead of spamming their weapon. 

If you have an issue with audio/visuals then change that, don't ask to nerf the weapon solely because of it, the very idea of that is ridiculous.

What do you expect its level 35s armorless infested,

Any decent weapon modded will give you the same results

You talk about the dmg side of the telos boltace being an issue but haven't used the weapon yet in an actual endgame situation or at all

Show me an endgame video level 100s armored units and then talk, I guarantee you won't see the same things as the other video.

Please do everyone a favor and actually play test before making ignorant statements.

What you're doing is like reviewing and rating a movie you have never watched.

In your case you are seeing imaginary problems due to ignorance and your lack of experience with the weapon.

Arguing is pointless when you have no idea what you're talking about.

What difference is this from pointing at AI enemies and spam or hold left click or mashing melee?

You make it sound like Warframe took some MLG pro skill to begin with.

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Dragazer

[Dragazer]

12 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

Which is not a issue because they at least demand involvement from the player, Telos Boltace wave spam does not.

Close slide mean right next to them, as in hitting them with the weapon itself rather than the wave. In the vid I tried to maintain at least 10-12 meters but the keybind which I put on my mouse were not ideal so I did come closer than intended at certain points in the video. I am however not so fast as the user in the first video I posted.

Read my responses to Dragazer.

Telling me to "git gud" is still not a proper augment.

You do have to be involved like I mentioned, LoS and damage fall off prevents this weapon becoming brainless. 

You took a little bit over 30s of slide spam to kill 4 gunners.

Whereas my ash with fatal teleport and CL takes 5s of just pointing and pressing "3", plus its insta kill as well no matter the level it will still be just as fast from lvl 1-9999

Edited December 18, 2016 by Dragazer

[radastir]

45 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

 

Telling me to "git gud" is still not a proper augment.

Of course it is. Even with a reason. Follow at least your own advice and read.

BTW: You give no "augments" anyway. Not even improper ones.

Edited December 18, 2016 by radastir

[Kaokasalis]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

You do have to be involved like I mentioned, LoS and damage fall off prevents this weapon becoming brainless. 

You took a little bit over 30s of slide spam to kill 4 gunners.

Whereas my ash with fatal teleport and CL takes 5s of just pointing and pressing "3", plus its insta kill as well no matter the level it will still be just as fast from lvl 1-9999

The combat starts at 0:37 when I start the first slide and ends at 1:02 when the last heavy gunner dies. That's 25 seconds.

And Fatal Teleport with Covert Lethality is also broken but its at least limited one enemy at a time but that's not what this thread is about. These enemies are also heavy gunners which aint common enemies compared to elite lancers so of course they would take time to "chew" through, plus they are also DEs definition of high leveled enemies (they called sorties high level content and its highest leveled content you can find on the starchart). But the matter of the problem is solely just how fast the waves can be thrown, they mow down lower level enemies and are crazy at applying status conditions to higher level ones. The Telos Boltace itself is a decent enough weapon to be able to kill a level 100 heavy gunner in 4 close slides, it doesn't need to be able to spam these waves constantly. I cant avoid going to lower level content as the relic drop locations are low level and every time I encounter a player the absurd wave spam of the Telos Boltace I'm either forced to leave the match or endure a incredibly boring match with little to do because these spin jesters fly around killing everything in sight.

1 hour ago, radastir said:

Of course it is. Even with a reason. Follow at least your own advice and read.

BTW: You give no "augments" anyway. Not even improper ones.

I have shown how certain powers and keybind can be exploited to form a constant spin-to-win.

I and other people have voiced our problem and concern with how game-ruining this can be for others.

[LSG501]

2 hours ago, Dragazer said:

If you have an issue with audio/visuals then change that, don't ask to nerf the weapon solely because of it, the very idea of that is ridiculous.

What do you expect its level 35s armorless infested,

Any decent weapon modded will give you the same results

You talk about the dmg side of the telos boltace being an issue but haven't used the weapon yet in an actual endgame situation or at all

Show me an endgame video level 100s armored units and then talk, I guarantee you won't see the same things as the other video.

Please do everyone a favor and actually play test before making ignorant statements.

What you're doing is like reviewing and rating a movie you have never watched.

In your case you are seeing imaginary problems due to ignorance and your lack of experience with the weapon.

Arguing is pointless when you have no idea what you're talking about.

What difference is this from pointing at AI enemies and spam or hold left click or mashing melee?

You make it sound like Warframe took some MLG pro skill to begin with.

 

I'm starting to think you're just out to troll people....

Trying to make out your response is the only correct one by trying to belittle any other opinion really doesn't make your response correct. 

Continuing to try and make out my comments are invalid because I haven't used the weapon just shows how biased your answers are.  If you can not see that there is a problem with a weapon from the perspective of people who aren't using the weapon it is just showing that you might as well not be playing a co-op game because it seems like all you want is that coveted most kills in the group title.... 

You then say about level 100 armored units... yeah that's EXACTLY how the map is made up.....full of level 100 armored units, no none of the 'high level' map locations don't top out around level 40-45....it's almost like you're trying to make up an argument to prove your point is valid because you don't want to accept that there is a problem with some dps weapons in this game.

[Fast_98]

Doesn't this thread just prove that maiming strike is broken? In the example you're using maiming strike, a rare 600 plat op mod that add a flat 90% crit chance to a weapon with 10 % crit chance. Now try to do it without maiming strike equiped.

[radastir]

12 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

I have shown how certain powers and keybind can be exploited to form a constant spin-to-win.

I and other people have voiced our problem and concern with how game-ruining this can be for others.

It's ok, whatever, we will not come to an agreement.

It's always the same: Someone opens an "innocent" nerf thread, gets toxic to players who disagree and claims just to be "honestly concerned" for others. I have news: We, the disagreeing players are also the others.

[radastir]

15 hours ago, Fast_98 said:

Doesn't this thread just prove that maiming strike is broken? In the example you're using maiming strike, a rare 600 plat op mod that add a flat 90% crit chance to a weapon with 10 % crit chance. Now try to do it without maiming strike equiped.

This is quite a reasonable point. But imagine DE would fix this now after staying broken such a long time span, where people have spent these lots of Plat on getting this mod. Such things should be fixed sooner or at least not without a proper compensation I think.

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by radastir

[Kaokasalis]

6 minutes ago, radastir said:

It's ok, whatever, we will not come to an agreement.

It's always the same: Someone opens an "innocent" nerf thread, gets toxic to players who disagree and claims just to be "honestly concerned" for others. I have news: We, the disagreeing players are also the others.

Dont kid yourself into believing that this is a "innocent" nerf thread. I started this thread well knowing that some people would object and complain about my feedback. Its a personal opinion behind my feedback and some people wont agree with that. However do not accuse me of things that I haven't done. At no point have I ever "claimed" to be concerned others or that I was doing this for the majority of players. I have simply voiced my opinion on what I feel is a bad weapon for gameplay purposes and so did others.

[Dragazer]

46 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

I'm starting to think you're just out to troll people....

Trying to make out your response is the only correct one by trying to belittle any other opinion really doesn't make your response correct. 

Continuing to try and make out my comments are invalid because I haven't used the weapon just shows how biased your answers are.  If you can not see that there is a problem with a weapon from the perspective of people who aren't using the weapon it is just showing that you might as well not be playing a co-op game because it seems like all you want is that coveted most kills in the group title.... 

You then say about level 100 armored units... yeah that's EXACTLY how the map is made up.....full of level 100 armored units, no none of the 'high level' map locations don't top out around level 40-45....it's almost like you're trying to make up an argument to prove your point is valid because you don't want to accept that there is a problem with some dps weapons in this game.

Seems like you are the troll here

You claim the telos boltace deals too much dmg but your only proof is from low levels.

Tier 3 grineer sorties are filled with lvl 100s armored units IDK what you're talking about.

Having actually used the weapon myself at those levels unlike some ppl here, I can tell you that you are not going to be stealing kills like the previously shown vid

 

gj with the typical SJW logic:

"Don't want the weapon nerfed? You must be one of the players that enjoy taking kills from everyone and ranking 1st in the leaderboard"

Like to you anyone that disagrees with you is just some noob who wants to take kills from everyone. 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Dragazer

[radastir]

55 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

I and other people have voiced our problem and concern with how game-ruining this can be for others.

 

18 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

However do not accuse me of things that I haven't done. At no point have I ever "claimed" to be concerned others ...

If you say so...

Edited December 18, 2016 by radastir

[Dragazer]

1 hour ago, Hieracon said:

The combat starts at 0:37 when I start the first slide and ends at 1:02 when the last heavy gunner dies. That's 25 seconds.

And Fatal Teleport with Covert Lethality is also broken but its at least limited one enemy at a time but that's not what this thread is about. These enemies are also heavy gunners which aint common enemies compared to elite lancers so of course they would take time to "chew" through, plus they are also DEs definition of high leveled enemies (they called sorties high level content and its highest leveled content you can find on the starchart). But the matter of the problem is solely just how fast the waves can be thrown, they mow down lower level enemies and are crazy at applying status conditions to higher level ones. The Telos Boltace itself is a decent enough weapon to be able to kill a level 100 heavy gunner in 4 close slides, it doesn't need to be able to spam these waves constantly. I cant avoid going to lower level content as the relic drop locations are low level and every time I encounter a player the absurd wave spam of the Telos Boltace I'm either forced to leave the match or endure a incredibly boring match with little to do because these spin jesters fly around killing everything in sight.

I have shown how certain powers and keybind can be exploited to form a constant spin-to-win.

I and other people have voiced our problem and concern with how game-ruining this can be for others.

Exactly 4 close slides, meaning the wave range is irrelevant at those levels because the best way to engage is up close, which is why melees like the Atterax and orthos prime are better suited due to no LoS restriction or dmg falloff meaning a much more effective range than the telos Boltace along with support from the combo counter and blood rush.

Constant spinning is no different than constantly mashing the melee button

What it basically comes down to:

Atterax:

• No LoS restriction can behind obstacles
• No dmg fall off
• around 10m range on slide
• Combo counter and blood rush compatible

Telos Boltace

• LoS restricted cant hit behind obstacles
• Severe dmg falloff
• 24m range 
• Doesn't work with combo counter and bloodrush.

Telos may be better at lower levels due to range (even then not sure because the LoS restriction) but once armor and hp ramps up it gets rekt by Atterax

Edited December 18, 2016 by Dragazer

[Triplemob720]

55 minutes ago, Fast_98 said:

Doesn't this thread just prove that maiming strike is broken? In the example you're using maiming strike, a rare 600 plat op mod that add a flat 90% crit chance to a weapon with 10 % crit chance. Now try to do it without maiming strike equiped.

Truly the main reason why Spin2Win exists at the first place. I don't know why DE created a mod that encourages to spam the same attack over and over, whilst they remake warframe powers to increase participation more than just spamming 4 over and over. I guess DE think slide attack is fine to be spammable, since it requires two buttons to be pressed, unlike warframes' ability.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Triplemob720

[Azzaruth]

5 hours ago, Hieracon said:

The combat starts at 0:37 when I start the first slide and ends at 1:02 when the last heavy gunner dies. That's 25 seconds.

Unimpressed. I can easily outdo that time with weak single target weapons in the time it takes you for you to kill with those waves.

What I learned from this. Nerf Silva and Aegis.

[Evanescent]

I acknowledge the problem (personally I've no love for the boltace) but a cooldown would make it all but useless with Warframe's gameplay and the weapon's pitiful base range.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

18 hours ago, Dragazer said:

Like I mentioned b4 nothing new or impressive, plenty of weapons could do the same or better b4 the telos boltace with the right build

BTW that was no where close to 3-4 slides

Agree. It can be done much much faster with a lot of weapons. Im not even going to mention Atterax because it is not fair.

I think that OP is saying that the weapon is annoying and asking for a change that ends up reducing the damage of a weapon that already doesnt do that much damage. 

Maybe a visual/sound change would address this problem better.

PS: OP you can do more damage with your Telos B. You use Maiming Strike but doesnt use Organ Shatter. So you are using a mod to crit 90% of the times but in those 90% of times, you are not amp the damage, it doesnt make a lot of sense.

Edited December 19, 2016 by (PS4)lhbuch

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

On 12/18/2016 at 10:52 AM, Dragazer said:

"I dont see any need to nerf the power or range of the Telos Boltace"

"just how frequently it can be used"

You do realize, that nerfing the frequency of the waves, nerfs DPS meaning that is in fact a nerf to power.

You seem to forget to mention that the Telos Boltace waves has severe damage fall off over distance.

Not only that, but the waves are unaffected by the combo multiplier or blood rush bonuses.

It also only hits enemies in LoS, so only enemies that you can see and unblocked by obstacles are hit

Nothing was broken in that video

lvl 35 armorless infested  gets rekt by weapon with rare mods? What a surprise!

Honestly what did you expect?

^This.

To be fair, in lvl 80-100 Kuva Floods / Sorties, the Telos Boltace isn't that strong. I still need 2-3 slide attacks to kill enemies with just the waves and the actual slide attack hugging the enemy, and I may need assistance from Naramon, Saryn's Spores or some sort of stagger/blind CC to amp up the damage.

There's definitely damage fall-off, be it from the actual slide attack and the LoS range from its waves.

Edited December 19, 2016 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

just pointing out TB + ash is a good combo to amp up the damage of the slash over fall off as well as the bleed procs...

tb + saryn is a strong setup, but so is zenistar [zen wins in overall dps rate ]

thats said ..

Tb is a fun weapon , but isnt the greatest in terms of map nuking /devistation unless used tactically

the slide attack only factors if its out in melee mode

 and only really comes into serious damage from that in low to mid  

and requires you to crouch, slide and attack 3 buttons on console to inact 

overall i think its fine as is, because even spam using it, wf abilities can out damage as can other setups in melee , the slash saturation is restricted 

[radastir]

The best utility the TB has is in syndicate missions where you can clear out the rooms of the loot quickly and what is left on the radar are the syndicate goodies or ayatan statues.

[LSG501]

On 18/12/2016 at 10:59 PM, Dragazer said:

You claim the telos boltace deals too much dmg but your only proof is from low levels.

Tier 3 grineer sorties are filled with lvl 100s armored units IDK what you're talking about.

oh you're still trying to prove your point... yet you only go and reinforce MY point....

Sorties are not the normal levels that people play on....they're the higher levels where we get to test ourself/weapons on the hardest things readily available in game...note I have not said at any point that the damage output needed nerfing other than the spin attack cooldown period so apart from not being able to spin your way through the levels killing stuff it wouldn't impact your sorties experience in the slightest, as you say it doesn't do any damage there unlike at lower levels..... 

Edited December 21, 2016 by LSG501

[Dragazer]

14 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

oh you're still trying to prove your point... yet you only go and reinforce MY point....

Sorties are not the normal levels that people play on....

Sorties are the current endgame we have atm.

IDK what you are smoking, but I'm pretty sure you are just troll baiting now.

A MR 8 syndicate weapon that requires a 600p rare mod and legendary mod is not something the average joe player would be in possession of

You bring endgame sortie level weapons that require top quality mods to be good into low levels and destroy enemies, what else do you expect?

This is basically your logic right now: 

LVL 100 fully geared vet destroys lvl 1 no geared noob in an MMO, therefore lvl 100's class should be nerfed

Reinforce your point? LMAO

Are you implying you had a point to begin with?

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Dragazer

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

I'm not really seeing the problem with Telos Boltace's slash-wave ability.  Yeah, it seems like it hits hard when you're fighting low level enemies, but you've got to run it on a chroma or a mirage or something if you want to even think of using it on high level (even sortie level, really) enemies.

Mirage/HoM/SinSimulor though, that's genuinely annoying, mostly just because of the ways people use it.  So many people use it like a more powerful speedrun-ember to just deprive everyone of any fun on normal missions they might want or have to play for whatever reason.

Really, if you don't like what the Telos Boltace does, clearly you've never seen anyone with an Atterax fully built for spin attacks (in addition to Weeping Wounds), because it will scale up to much, much higher levels of vaporization than the Telos Boltace.... especially on something like a Savage Silence Banshee with the Naramon focus, it's just laughable.