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I've Seen More Hate Speech in 2 Days than Past 2 Years


ssh83
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Everyone knows that competitive games have the most toxic communities.  PvP are the creme of the crop in toxity.

This event underlines that fact. I have seen more hate speech, racial slurs, and out right verbal fights between team mates in past 2 days than i have in past 2 years.

This needs to end.

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Ironically this event is having more PvE players doing conclave and they are the ones behaving poorly.

Usually whenever I dip into conclave people are pretty fun and chill, I get my butt kicked but everyone is pretty cool.

This event now has PvE exclusive players who talk a big game about how horrible conclave and its players are, now trying it out, and consistently the matches are filled with vitriol. It's not from the regular Conclave players, I'll tell you.

Edited by Gelkor
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9 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

Ironically this event is having more PvE players doing conclave and they are the ones behaving poorly.

Usually whenever I dip into conclave people are pretty fun and chill, I get my butt kicked but everyone is pretty cool.

This event now has PvE exclusive players who talk a big game about how horrible conclave and its players are, now trying it out, and consistently the matches are filled with vitriol. It's not from the regular Conclave players, I'll tell you.

this ^

Conclave play most players are silent and well... play even if losing cause it's a game and they still earn rep and practice. Those who don't play it have a hard time in it and whine and *@##$ all the time. Problem with conclave is the parkour system as it makes trapping, positioning and melee useless as well as raising the skill cap on aiming far higher than most can cope with. This causes it to feel unaproachable and not to mention most players just jump the bandwagon with the hate so they refuse to play it due to pier pressure.

TL:DR Conclave's parkour raises the skill cap too high and people just can't enjoy it cause of it.

Edited by Major_Phantom
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3 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

Ironically this event is having more PvE players doing conclave and they are the ones behaving poorly.

Usually whenever I dip into conclave people are pretty fun and chill, I get my butt kicked but everyone is pretty cool.

This event now has PvE exclusive players who talk a big game about how horrible conclave and its players are, now trying it out, and consistently the matches are filled with vitriol. It's not from the regular Conclave players, I'll tell you.

As a Typhon rank (although still not very experienced) I confirm this. Preaty much every Conclave player I have seen is a very kind pearson, that can score 1000% accuracy with their eyes closed if they wanted to.

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1 minute ago, Major_Phantom said:

Problem with conclave is the parkour system as it makes trapping, positioning and melee useless as well as raising the skill cap on aiming far higher than most can cope with.

Why do you think I say it always feels like I am playing with aimbots?

PS: Don't worry, somehow they are legit...though I still can't believe it in some cases.

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27 minutes ago, ssh83 said:

Everyone knows that competitive games have the most toxic communities.  PvP are the creme of the crop in toxity.

This event underlines that fact. I have seen more hate speech, racial slurs, and out right verbal fights between team mates in past 2 days than i have in past 2 years.

This needs to end.

 Hey man. I get where you are coming from, really I do - but you need to step back a moment and reflect how you are allowing this issue to make you sound in turn. 

 "Everyone knows that competitive games have the most toxic communities" is a generalization and paints a massive chunk of gaming as a whole with an incredibly broad brush. There ARE competitive communities with incredibly bad attitudes overall - true. We've all tried out League of Legends at some point right? Doubt I have to explain that one.

 But that toxicity and attitude is less about general player attitude and more about the frustration associated with the pressure to preform well versus others. This is magnified by the feeling that you may have ended up on the lesser team - which is a pessimistic assumption people naturally jump to when they feel they are less than well off in a match.

 This is a primarily PvE game. Most players ignore the PvP in my experience. So we've got a bunch of guys who mostly leave the game mode alone grinding it for the sake of the event. That alone is frustrating enough for a portion of us to be extra salty. Add to that the other common tribulations of the PvP battlefield like the feelings we get from preformance pressure, teammate troubles and latency issues and you get a melting pot of mad. Some people skip salty and upgrade right to boardwalk fries

 

 Show your fellow Tenno love. Don't kick them while they are down. We shouldn't throw shade on others just for being frustrated at a game mode they may legitimately find harder or like less then the typical fare. At least wait till after Christmas. ;P

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You can tell who plays it all the time by the way they play it, and as someone who doesnt, my experience has been - spawn camped. Not knowing the maps doesnt help when others know every place you're going to be. They just cling to walls or pop out the hidey holes and dead. So much skill required for that on novices. This event is having the opposite effect of inspiring me to bother doing conclave more often. It's also making me question my desire to finish as many TAC events as I can because clearly this one was meant for a minority, not the community.

As an aside, I don't know if conclave players are all modded up? I know I have no conclave frame mods and it is my hope no one else does either for this "community event" otherwise that's just adding insult to injury.

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2 minutes ago, Blatantfool said:

 Hey man. I get where you are coming from, really I do - but you need to step back a moment and reflect how you are allowing this issue to make you sound in turn. 

 "Everyone knows that competitive games have the most toxic communities" is a generalization and paints a massive chunk of gaming as a whole with an incredibly broad brush. There ARE competitive communities with incredibly bad attitudes overall - true. We've all tried out League of Legends at some point right? Doubt I have to explain that one.

 But that toxicity and attitude is less about general player attitude and more about the frustration associated with the pressure to preform well versus others. This is magnified by the feeling that you may have ended up on the lesser team - which is a pessimistic assumption people naturally jump to when they feel they are less than well off in a match.

 This is a primarily PvE game. Most players ignore the PvP in my experience. So we've got a bunch of guys who mostly leave the game mode alone grinding it for the sake of the event. That alone is frustrating enough for a portion of us to be extra salty. Add to that the other common tribulations of the PvP battlefield like the feelings we get from preformance pressure, teammate troubles and latency issues and you get a melting pot of mad. Some people skip salty and upgrade right to boardwalk fries

 

 Show your fellow Tenno love. Don't kick them while they are down. We shouldn't throw shade on others just for being frustrated at a game mode they may legitimately find harder or like less then the typical fare. At least wait till after Christmas. ;P

A generalization with a pretty large kernel of truth.  Dark souls pvp, League of Legends (literally legendary amounts of salt), virtually all pvp games with an actual focus on BEING competitive (fighting games, shooters, etc.) tends to generate toxicity.  I'll be blunt there was a LOT more salt in warframe after they added the PVP than before.  Whether or not it's "most" toxic is really about the only debate.

There's a lot of reasons toxicity exists in PVP arenas.  A seemingly weak team perceived as bringing you down (which it can but bringing it up literally just makes it worse), "Imbalances" of every number perception, etc., the occasional hacker, and the most present of all of the above lag.  Being forced into that arena to get a reward when you otherwise actively avoid it to get the newest shiny or rare commodity only adds to all that.  Honestly I don't mind PVP cosmetic rewards and limited to pvp mods don't bug me but the PVP and PVE just don't mix well in this game or virtually any other with significant RPG elements.

 

 

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I've seen worse (played league). It because people get worked up very easily when placed in an competitive game mode. I get worked up so much I'm all together skipping this event. (first event i actually skip in 3 years) Its not worth getting mad at my lack of skill or investing time getting "gut" if i'm going to be angry spending that time.
That said I cant speak much about the conclave. When i saw that most frame abilities don't work the same killed any interest.

There is no way for me to say this without sounding rude.(I'm very sorry especially to the pvp players): Hope not to see more pvp events. At least give a pve option to the same event for us "plebs". Warframe is my chill game where i don't have to worry about my performance or competition and most players like it that way.

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38 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

Ironically this event is having more PvE players doing conclave and they are the ones behaving poorly.

Usually whenever I dip into conclave people are pretty fun and chill, I get my butt kicked but everyone is pretty cool.

This event now has PvE exclusive players who talk a big game about how horrible conclave and its players are, now trying it out, and consistently the matches are filled with vitriol. It's not from the regular Conclave players, I'll tell you.

You hit the nail on the head with this post.

I only see the PvE players being extremely toxic and salty because they have to participate in Conclave. I honestly think players spent way too much time getting accustomed to beating brain-dead AIs, using crutch-like meta tactics, and ETC in PVE that it gave them something of a high-horse mentality. What happens when something comes along, forcing them to face reality, by chopping the legs off of their high horse? They go tumbling down hard, and they do not like it. Not one bit.

In short, it is hard to actually lose in PvE due to the much lower skill ceiling, caused by several things. PvE players are too use to winning all the time, so when they lose/die repeatedly, they don't know how to take it.

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Easy solution, DE acknowledges they made a mistake with making a TA include conclave and never do it again. 

 

Conclave should NEVER ever interact with the core game. 

 

Not to say that I don't like PvP, but if I want PvP, I play a game that was designed for PvP.  Warframe was never designed for PvP, and even with the changes they have made it still does work.  And, that is part of the problem with toxic Conclave experiences, the players combined with the poor quality of play makes it even worse. 

Edited by ClockworkSpectre
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Once upon a time the PvP community was the shining light of courtesy and kindness in the Warframe community, that was back in the PvP 1.0 days though. 

But even now, the dedicated PvP community isn't that bad, it is PvE where normally meet the... special... people

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1 hour ago, Irorone said:

A generalization with a pretty large kernel of truth.  Dark souls pvp, League of Legends (literally legendary amounts of salt), virtually all pvp games with an actual focus on BEING competitive (fighting games, shooters, etc.) tends to generate toxicity.  I'll be blunt there was a LOT more salt in warframe after they added the PVP than before.  Whether or not it's "most" toxic is really about the only debate.

There's a lot of reasons toxicity exists in PVP arenas.  A seemingly weak team perceived as bringing you down (which it can but bringing it up literally just makes it worse), "Imbalances" of every number perception, etc., the occasional hacker, and the most present of all of the above lag.  Being forced into that arena to get a reward when you otherwise actively avoid it to get the newest shiny or rare commodity only adds to all that.  Honestly I don't mind PVP cosmetic rewards and limited to pvp mods don't bug me but the PVP and PVE just don't mix well in this game or virtually any other with significant RPG elements.

 

 

  I'll say it again, if you paint ALL games of a competitive nature with such a broad brush of course it is easy to affirm your statement. Consider just how many games exist that you could cite were people get angry. Too many to accurately count. In fact, it couldn't be any easier to say "People get heated in a competitive situation". People get that heated in live sports too. That is the human competitive nature. We trash talk ourselves, our team, the enemy team, the rules, the game, the fans. It's one way we like to beat our chest and roar, so to speak.

 And like before, I needn't remind you that is slightly unfair to throw shame at people for acting naturally to either the frustration or the rush of a competitive situation. You wouldn't talk down at a football enthusiast for trash talking the other team on the line or even getting visibly distraught when they are getting beaten badly. Competition is an emotionally invested sort of thing. It is literally fighting other real people for a goal you've set.

 

 There is nothing inherently wrong with competition. There is nothing inherently shameful about trash talk. There is also nothing particularly strange about a feeling of frustration. People act like people. Fighting it is pretty futile and honestly unfair to them.

 

 If anything, the real problem is that many people have trouble acting responsibly and remembering that all things are better in moderation. It's hard to slam your brakes when it is an online arena and you are experiencing competition through a faceless gamertag.

 

 It's important to keep in mind that the causes of these issues is not just an awful person being awful. It's a normal guy playing Warframe to enjoy himself and having a hard time. If you dislike the trash talk and the frustration all you have to do is refuse to participate in it and encourage your friends to act the same. If a person is angry don't fuel their fire. If a person is trash talking and you don't like it just don't respond. Many of these bad habits don't go too far overboard if you remember that it's just a guy shouting into a void if you never respond.

 The most important thing about competition is the understanding that no matter what is done or what is said or how you feel about it you always LEAVE IT ON THE BATTLEFIELD. Once the match is done and you've moved on you leave all the crap behind. Everyone acts different when they are chasing a win. Assume no one is saying something they'd ever say otherwise. This is how you play a part in helping keep even trash talk civil. 

 

 It is especially important online, where often the younger or more rambunctious members of our community will forget this rule. We must remember because we understand that it is easy to forget. This is a shared community full of so many people. The responsibility to be a good example is spread equally. If you meet a guy whose lost it, be twice as courteous as he is to balance the scales. Make someones day instead of ruin it and you've instantly undone any damage.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Gelkor said:

Ironically this event is having more PvE players doing conclave and they are the ones behaving poorly.

Usually whenever I dip into conclave people are pretty fun and chill, I get my butt kicked but everyone is pretty cool.

This event now has PvE exclusive players who talk a big game about how horrible conclave and its players are, now trying it out, and consistently the matches are filled with vitriol. It's not from the regular Conclave players, I'll tell you.

this

I started my road to mastery in conclave earlier than the event, and the matches were always a experience not someone that provoke griefing. the fact is pve mentality of "too ez " don't rule in conclave. I did 3 matches today, i consider myself a mediocre conclave player who started now to learn how to move, and i was first in my squad in 2 matches on 3. The level was...well...nothing i saw until now. When u start to learn how to aim in the madness that is the fast movement you start to understand how master those masters out there are. PvE player never felt this degree of difficulty, but they blame the game and don't try understand that people who invested time and pratice in the mode rule in conclave, not someone with s. simulor. the other day i even saw a dude use the SS in a 1vs all...u don't need to ear how it's ended lol.

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1 minute ago, Heckzu said:

But it doesn't and never did interact with the core game. What's your point here?

It seems not having 2 Sigils is something unthinkable for someone. 2 frigging ugly sigils. Not even a potato, not a weapon that could give mastery. And the alert give u the point EVEN IF U LOSE. The problem is people are too accustomed to win lol.

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For a pvp mode this holiday event is incredibly balanced. Doesn't matter what your loadout is going into it, everyone is on the same level. You all have snowball kunai, your spearmint scythe, no powers, and a 100 health. Kunai is a 1-shot kill on headshots, 2-3 on body, and the scythe is 2 hits. Only problem I had with it was the lag due to the p2p hosting.

Oh and Mag's crush is a one-shot kill in the free for all mode. I found this funny given everyone's opinion on it. :laugh:

 

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people seem to be cheating during the match. I'm seeing people throwing snowballs and meleeing people at the same time. One match someone was one shotting people with the snowballs so its not full on salt its some people are downright cheating.

I know there is headshot but the guy was flicking about one shotting people. Ruining the fun honestly.

Edited by Lancars
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