I've Seen More Hate Speech in 2 Days than Past 2 Years

[(PSN)robotwars7]

humans don't like losing. some are better at handling it than others, but it is in our nature to want to dominate each other in whatever way possible. to me, PVP just shows humanity at it's ugliest, and saltiest. as I always say:

"if they're worse than you, they need to git gud, if they're better than you, they have no life, and if they're the same as you, they're sad because they want to copy you!"

[Ninjacalypse]

7 hours ago, Gelkor said:

Ironically this event is having more PvE players doing conclave and they are the ones behaving poorly.

Usually whenever I dip into conclave people are pretty fun and chill, I get my butt kicked but everyone is pretty cool.

This event now has PvE exclusive players who talk a big game about how horrible conclave and its players are, now trying it out, and consistently the matches are filled with vitriol. It's not from the regular Conclave players, I'll tell you.

So far every single match, I've been placed in the middle of an already running match on the losing team with the other team at a minimum 10 points ahead if not more. EVERY...SINGLE...MATCH. One match, matchmaking dropped me in 30 seconds before game end and didn't even give me credit for it. Because...that makes sense.

Not to mention, 5 minutes is a party game. 10 minutes is forced tedium. I can see why people are toxic about it. That's not an excuse for naughty language but still. This could have been a fun event and instead (IMO) it's anti-fun.

[salubri]

lol at people (not just "conclave players") saying that pve players doesnt like pvp because they dont like to loose XD, people dislike any kind of "pvp" for several reasons not just because "they are hurt on their ego"

[Irorone]

5 hours ago, Blatantfool said:

  I'll say it again, if you paint ALL games of a competitive nature with such a broad brush of course it is easy to affirm your statement. Consider just how many games exist that you could cite were people get angry. Too many to accurately count. In fact, it couldn't be any easier to say "People get heated in a competitive situation". People get that heated in live sports too. That is the human competitive nature. We trash talk ourselves, our team, the enemy team, the rules, the game, the fans. It's one way we like to beat our chest and roar, so to speak.

 And like before, I needn't remind you that is slightly unfair to throw shame at people for acting naturally to either the frustration or the rush of a competitive situation. You wouldn't talk down at a football enthusiast for trash talking the other team on the line or even getting visibly distraught when they are getting beaten badly. Competition is an emotionally invested sort of thing. It is literally fighting other real people for a goal you've set.

 

 There is nothing inherently wrong with competition. There is nothing inherently shameful about trash talk. There is also nothing particularly strange about a feeling of frustration. People act like people. Fighting it is pretty futile and honestly unfair to them.

 

 If anything, the real problem is that many people have trouble acting responsibly and remembering that all things are better in moderation. It's hard to slam your brakes when it is an online arena and you are experiencing competition through a faceless gamertag.

 

 It's important to keep in mind that the causes of these issues is not just an awful person being awful. It's a normal guy playing Warframe to enjoy himself and having a hard time. If you dislike the trash talk and the frustration all you have to do is refuse to participate in it and encourage your friends to act the same. If a person is angry don't fuel their fire. If a person is trash talking and you don't like it just don't respond. Many of these bad habits don't go too far overboard if you remember that it's just a guy shouting into a void if you never respond.

 The most important thing about competition is the understanding that no matter what is done or what is said or how you feel about it you always LEAVE IT ON THE BATTLEFIELD. Once the match is done and you've moved on you leave all the crap behind. Everyone acts different when they are chasing a win. Assume no one is saying something they'd ever say otherwise. This is how you play a part in helping keep even trash talk civil. 

 

 It is especially important online, where often the younger or more rambunctious members of our community will forget this rule. We must remember because we understand that it is easy to forget. This is a shared community full of so many people. The responsibility to be a good example is spread equally. If you meet a guy whose lost it, be twice as courteous as he is to balance the scales. Make someones day instead of ruin it and you've instantly undone any damage.

 

 

I didn't say it wasn't a generalization, I was saying that it's a lot closer to the truth than a lot of generalizations tend to be.  Ya know the whole kernel of truth that gets wildly distorted bit etc. 

Yes but just competitiveness has its heated moments there is a differing chance of those heated moments exploding into something far outside the bounds of sporting conduct.  On that count my point was the generalization being the most in most toxicity.

You're right competitive nature isn't inherently wrong but you could say the same about alcohol and drunk driving.  Alcohol isn't inherently wrong, mostly because its inanimate to be fair, but it's a pretty close requirement to drunk driving.  Same could be said of competitive nature and toxicity though the link isn't as ironclad as the aforementioned alcohol example.

In heated moments there exists an increased possibility of going off the rails, I generally see more extreme cases of unsporting behavior in sports like football, boxing, and hockey than say something like golf or cricket.

True, toxicity isn't a one for one measure of a person being bad in any respect.  That said the thing that's got people riled is this event forced PVE players into a mode they don't like for sigils and potatos, not entirely unjustified since more than a few of the accusations of increased toxicity being thrown at said PVE players.

While not necessarily a measure of the issue it does say a lot when the closest thing to sporting communication in the event of player toxicity amidst a "community wide event" is the ignore command.

[Fast_98]

It fun one v one... but then the entire opposite team gang up on you and beat you down with that damn candy cane. This is how most games go down.

I've seen entire team stick together and gang up on players. The first  team that does this usually wins.

[Heckzu]

4 minutes ago, Snowyamur9 said:

PvP also shows that humans want to prove themselves better than others, and Conclave (for now) accomplishes that. Warframe for PvE is so much more peaceful and less toxic than Conclave, and that's in its nature.

 

I'm not implying DE should remove Conclave, but improve it so that we all wouldn't be at each other's throats from time to time.

Actually, it's the other way around.

The Conclave community is usually really chill because we let our actions speak for us, so the message log tends to be empty and instead we focus on playing. Conclave players are generally fine with nerfs, because we know it's for the good balance of the game and don't normally care as to what other players are using. We're also not as competitive since there's no leaderboard or ranking system or even any tournament style events. We just play to get standing, light up our Celestias, and try to get better at the mechanics of the game.

But PvE, on the other hand, is full of people trying to be "meta", cheesing their way through missions with SS Mirage and the likes, as well as criticizing teammates for their loudouts. Most players want to get as many rewards as possible, as quickly and as effortlessly as possible. This leads to tension when a player messes up or has underperforming gear. If a player fails to defend an excavator, negativity often spawns in the chat. If a player trips the alarms and loses the data in Spy, other players often get angered. And if someone trips during LoR Nightmare and the tram blows up, you can be sure there's going to be rage on the chat.

And whenever DE states that something is going to get nerfed, the forum community raises its pitchforks and starts rioting.

The toxicity that you witness during the event generally comes from players who either have never touched or played very little of Conclave.

[NativeKiller]

I just noped out of the event as soon as I realized that it was conclave stuff.

 

10/10, would nope out again.

[Kaotyke]

7 hours ago, Major_Phantom said:

TL:DR Conclave's parkour raises the skill cap too high and people just can't enjoy it cause of it.

*puts arm out of the snow pille I've become to write*

It makes a huge difference.

 

[EmptyDevil]

5 hours ago, Eldritchkitty said:

I'd just like to say.. I agree with everything you said, save for one thing. I feel like this was a very poor idea on DE's part to encourage these types of feelings during the holiday season, when good feelings are the ones that need to be encouraged. It feels like a heavy handed way to push people into a game mode that most just won't enjoy.

DE isn't encouraging negative feelings. They are encouraging fun, but some PvE players won't get a grip over losing.

3 hours ago, Tyrak said:

... Honestly I've found the event to be very pleasant, and I normally steer clear of PVP. Everyone's been either silent or pretty chill.

Maybe it's just because I'm playing at ungodly hours of the night. '-'

PvP in general is usually silent and/or chill in Warframe.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

1 minute ago, EmptyDevil said:

DE isn't encouraging negative feelings. They are encouraging fun, but some PvE players won't get a grip over losing.

PvP in general is usually silent and/or chill in Warframe.

Forcing PvP into core gameplay does encourage negative feelings though. Most people won't touch conclave for a good reason. 

[EmptyDevil]

2 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

Forcing PvP into core gameplay does encourage negative feelings though. Most people won't touch conclave for a good reason. 

It isn't forcing it into 'core' gameplay. That statement is making it sound as if DE implemented unavoidable Dark Souls invasions. PvP is a part of Warframe whether you/others players like it or not.

The reason those people won't touch Conclave, is based on their ignorant preconceived notions about the players that do enjoy it, and their inability to handle losing to another human being. Losing to another human can be seen as unwillingly admitting they are better than you. Almost everyone is trying to prove themselves or compete in some way -- even through intrapersonal comparisons on what they have over another person(exclusives, founder's status, rare drops, and ETC).

 

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

I stayed away from this event as soon as I saw it was conclave. Pvp in Warframe just isn't my way to go.

Edited December 19, 2016 by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY

[Eldritchsqueaker]

5 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

It isn't forcing it into 'core' gameplay. That statement is making it sound as if DE implemented unavoidable Dark Souls invasions. PvP is a part of Warframe whether you/others players like it or not.

The reason those people won't touch Conclave, is based on their ignorant preconceived notions about the players that do enjoy it, and their inability to handle losing to another human being. Losing to another human can be seen as unwillingly admitting they are better than you. Almost everyone is trying to prove themselves or compete in some way -- even through intrapersonal comparisons on what they have over another person(exclusives, founder's status, rare drops, and ETC).

 

Tactical Alert = Core gameplay, you know what they say about assumptions. Saying why people act a certain way, doesn't change the fact that making a conclave tactical alert facilitated all the vitriol. This is during an already shaky time in the game, between TWW being delayed a bunch, Rivens, the SotR controversies, it's not very good for the health of the game. 

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

8 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

winning

Winning or Wining? That is the question.

Edited December 19, 2016 by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY
Winning it is

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Remember when we all had mics and it was good during Halo 3... and then player stats suddenly became serious business...and then all those mics just went dead. Cause and effect, plus bigotry shut that down pretty quick. I wish every game had Ai like Battlefield Bad Company or Left4Dead with the running dialogue between them just to hear another human voice not screaming racial slurs, or beatboxing, or that screaming kid/Wife/Grandma in the background,...( for gawds sake go spend some time with them and take them to a park, or out to lunch. )

[Evanescent]

10 hours ago, Gelkor said:

Ironically this event is having more PvE players doing conclave and they are the ones behaving poorly.

Usually whenever I dip into conclave people are pretty fun and chill, I get my butt kicked but everyone is pretty cool.

This event now has PvE exclusive players who talk a big game about how horrible conclave and its players are, now trying it out, and consistently the matches are filled with vitriol. It's not from the regular Conclave players, I'll tell you.

QFT

It isn't the PvP players that are toxic, mostly. 

[(PSN)watt4hem]

It was all fun and games when i tried the event these pass 2 days, maybe i got lucky on the crowd

[Tesseract7777]

All the Conclave players who are saying "it isn't the conclave players who are being toxic" could not be missing the point more here. Seriously. 

 

I don't think the OP's original intent was to call out those who play conclave regularly, as those people don't tend to be that toxic to each other, as far as I have ever heard of. 

 

Rather, I think his point was that taking a poorly thought out conclave style tac alert and throwing it in front of a bunch of PvE players and dangling a carrot in front of them on a stick that they could only get with that mode, was naturally going to lead to buckets of toxicity and salt FROM all the new conclave players who don't understand the game mode, and are being thrown into it with little introduction, often ending up against people who DO play conclave, and run circles around them in that game mode for that reason. 

The alert could have been PvP, but they made it too much like conclave, and this naturally led to lots of toxic behavior. I am not sure the OP was saying at all that the toxicity came from PvP players, but rather that, like many PvP players are saying, that the PvE players got incredibly frustrated and with many of them it turned to rudeness and anger. 

But that's really the whole point! You guys who play conclave a lot. If you enjoy it. Great. That's cool and I don't begrudge you your enjoyment. But please understand that many of us like PvP in other games, but we just really don't think the PvP in Warframe is our style, or suits us at all as gamers. That's also our own way to enjoy the game. This event should be done differently if it is ever repeated, because the way it was done, was not at all an even playing field. And the reason for that is because naturally those who know conclave were sometimes going to be matched up against those who know nothing about it, in a game mode that is supposed to just be a fun, chill, winter event. 

Maybe all of the conclave people should have done invite only games with their conclave buddies, instead of joining public matches knowing they would often be running circles around other Tenno, and causing them to either AFK or get really frustrated and rage out??? 

Or maybe next time, DE can make a snowball fight that is PvP, but a separate non-conclave system that TRULY puts everyone on an even playing field. 

How about next time they have us use our operators? No operator abilities, no parkour. Just regular sprinting, maybe dodge rolling or something and that's it. If it was implemented this way, it might have been fun. 

The way it was implemented was a huge mistake. The huge amounts of posts saying they hate it/did it only for sigil/didn't do it/afk'd it/rage'd it, shows that the event as it was implemented was not done well. It shows it needs to be seriously tweaked or never done again. 

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

It even leeks onto here . 

[Ny_Soro]

13 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

How about next time they have us use our operators? No operator abilities, no parkour. Just regular sprinting, maybe dodge rolling or something and that's it. If it was implemented this way, it might have been fun.

All of this. For the love of God I would play this event if this was the case. 'giving you an upvote +An infinitesimally large number of up votes I wish I could give to you'

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

3 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

The reason those people won't touch Conclave, is based on their ignorant preconceived notions about the players that do enjoy it, and their inability to handle losing to another human being. Losing to another human can be seen as unwillingly admitting they are better than you. Almost everyone is trying to prove themselves or compete in some way -- even through intrapersonal comparisons on what they have over another person(exclusives, founder's status, rare drops, and ETC).

 

Yeah that's obviously not the only reason people don't like conclave . I just think it's not complete/fleshed out , & I have 1000s of hours on BF4 , destiny crucible, Titanfall, BO3, Overwatch. While warframes pvp is just ... weird . It doesn't mesh well for me at least 

Edited December 19, 2016 by (PS4)Akuma_Asura_

[EmptyDevil]

18 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

How about next time they have us use our operators? No operator abilities, no parkour. Just regular sprinting, maybe dodge rolling or something and that's it. If it was implemented this way, it might have been fun. 

It's still fun, but i would absolutely love this idea you suggested even more. Sadly, i think people would still incessantly complain about it.

[smiddler]

i had no problems with people or the game mode i thought it was pretty fun 

[OniDax]

Just now, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

Yeah that's obviously not the only reason people don't like conclave . I just think it's not complete/fleshed out , & I have 1000s of hours on BF4 , destiny crucible, Titanfall, BO3, Overwatch. Will warframe a pvp is just ... weird . It doesn't mesh well for me at least 

IMO, it's because DE just doesn't get what makes PvP in other games work. IMO, that has a whole lot to do with the gunplay and movement system (which has a lot to do with the animation system) in a game. DE really should sit down and play some successful 3rd person PvP games to get a sense of what mechanics lead to an enjoyable PvP experience. I know Battlefront's got it's issues (mainly with lack of content and hackers), but its gameplay mechanics (movement animations and aiming/shooting mechanics), as well as the immersive environments, make for an enjoyable experience imo.

[EmptyDevil]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

Yeah that's obviously not the only reason people don't like conclave . I just think it's not complete/fleshed out , & I have 1000s of hours on BF4 , destiny crucible, Titanfall, BO3, Overwatch. Will warframe a pvp is just ... weird . It doesn't mesh well for me at least 

The PvP just feeling weird as a reason to not play it sounds legit to me. I don't like when people crucify PvP and its players by saying they are all bad/toxic when they aren't. Most people I've met through PvP and the friends i know that play it are really nice people. PvP has its own bad apples just like PvE, and the nice PvP players dislike the mean ones.