Tactical Alert Rant (Snowday Showdown)

[dashashou]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

I've merged a couple threads with the sentiment 'Stratos Emblem as a reward wasn't communicated, nor did it follow rules because you could get a new one each day, etc'.

This is a problem, we agree. After talking with the team we are reverting all Stratos Emblems as they have always been associated with the Challenge mode at the end of previous Tactical Alerts. We'll let you know when we run the script, it will affect all who got this unintended item. Sorry for the frustration.

Well you guys changed the rules on us after these mini events where over .  this type of changes really hurts my consumer  confidence . In the future i'll expect any event rewards to not be permanent / probably won't run them   

[Urlan]

3 hours ago, A7xConnor said:

The only reason I did the 8 conclave snowday showdown things was for the stratos emblems, lol. As personally I really don't enjoy pvp/conclave and the 10 minutes per 3 matches each day was pretty painful, but did it anyway just for the stratos, 4 hours spent over all so rip.

Thought it was pretty obvious though honestly, tactical alerts give stratos emblems, so I did it regardless of how obvious it was or was not communicated.

Same here honestly!

[Buldozers]

Well if you don't care about tactical alerts and are too lazy to do them (despite justifiable reason to play forced cancer mode) then you are not entitled to complain about missing some rewards.

I always do all Tactical alert no matter what the rewards are. I could simply skip them because I had all those sigils from 2014 holiday tactical alerts, but I knew i will get my badge upgraded despite lack of direct announcement. Which part of TACTICAL ALERT you didn't understand?

RIP 38 Stratos emblem.

[Voltage]

4 hours ago, ograzzt said:

Hey, but we have earned it. You can't say "just kidding, it doesn't count now".

Ouch... DE ...

[Banser]

8 hours ago, Buldozers said:

Well if you don't care about tactical alerts and are too lazy to do them (despite justifiable reason to play forced cancer mode) then you are not entitled to complain about missing some rewards.

I always do all Tactical alert no matter what the rewards are. I could simply skip them because I had all those sigils from 2014 holiday tactical alerts, but I knew i will get my badge upgraded despite lack of direct announcement. Which part of TACTICAL ALERT you didn't understand?

RIP 38 Stratos emblem.

Same here.
Personally I hate pvp, but I've done alerts even for old stuff that I already have. And the reason was Stratos emblem. 

Game Over Man, Game Over!

RIP 34 emblems... 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Banser

[Punchedface]

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

I've merged a couple threads with the sentiment 'Stratos Emblem as a reward wasn't communicated, nor did it follow rules because you could get a new one each day, etc'.

This is a problem, we agree. After talking with the team we are reverting all Stratos Emblems as they have always been associated with the Challenge mode at the end of previous Tactical Alerts. We'll let you know when we run the script, it will affect all who got this unintended item. Sorry for the frustration.

Will this include the 'Stratos Emblem earned' stat in our profile page. I know players could only read their own stratos stat but it would be nice to use it as a tracker.

[MystMan]

How can people be upset about "earning" stratos emblem if they originally didn't even know it was there? This award was literally not announced anywhere officially, not in the game, not the forums, not on facebook. People weren't aware it was awarded until a thread was made by a user on the 4th day of the first snowball event. By then 3 emblems were missed already by many. People who don't use forums certainly had no way of knowing so they missed them all, would that be fair to them to make it count?

And stratos emblem was always earned by clearing the event, which unlocks an endurance mode. This endurance mode is what awarded the emblem. That is not applicable here. Also, an emblem for each snowball day? That is too many. We always got 1 emblem per event, not 8.

[NullusvultLatine]

Wow I didn't know there were so many people, not knowing that the event does give Stratos Emblems every time. 8 in total. Maybe because I am walking around with my Stratos Emblem equiped on every Warframe, so I noticed the changes of the emblem. But it would be fair to let everyone keep their earned emblems, because they spent a lot of time (4 hours), earning those. And this was, for many of us, the only reason for doing the tactical alert Snowday Showdown. It would be very mean to say "Just because some players didn't try to see if this alert gives some emblems, everyone, who did every single mission of this alert, regardless if the player knew about the emblems or not, will be "punished" and only gets one emblem." This is like you did all the hard work and get a pay rise. Then someone comes and complains that he didn't knew about the work and also wants a rise. So the boss reduces your rise, just because the other person doesn't try to inform himself or asking you if there was work.

 

[Zendadaist]

Aww, that was one of the reasons I gritted my teeth through laggy servers/migrations/infinite load screens/team rage quits/team stand-and-be-farmed/Session Full etc. I like my Stratos Emblem right now :(

[Skaleek]

Wait wait, I earned those stratos emblems. Do you think i needed the repeat rewards from last year?

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

5 hours ago, MystMan said:

How can people be upset about "earning" stratos emblem if they originally didn't even know it was there? This award was literally not announced anywhere officially, not in the game, not the forums, not on facebook. People weren't aware it was awarded until a thread was made by a user on the 4th day of the first snowball event. By then 3 emblems were missed already by many. People who don't use forums certainly had no way of knowing so they missed them all, would that be fair to them to make it count?

And stratos emblem was always earned by clearing the event, which unlocks an endurance mode. This endurance mode is what awarded the emblem. That is not applicable here. Also, an emblem for each snowball day? That is too many. We always got 1 emblem per event, not 8.

I think I did them all, but as it was not listed as a reward I'm not sure how someone can complain when it is not given as a reward.   I would have been more keen to do them if it was given as a reward as I got all the sigils the first year they were given.  It did however net me 2 more conclave skins and was a lot more fun than getting wtf ded by a Daikyu the last time I played PvP lol.

 

 

[treb1e]

Oh what the heck, you made the mistake TWICE then? I, like many others, did this obnoxius tactical alert ONLY for the stratos emblems.

It's no excuse that everyone was on vacation, you should have told us way sooner, sure as hell before rerunning snowdown these last few days.

Since it's not a product of a bug but merely failure to communicate on your part, I would very much like to keep the reward for my hours of DREAD playing these tacticals.

Tell you what, give 8 stratos to everyone who DIDN'T DO THEM, I will feel less trolled then.

Just removing 8 stratos from everyone who DID them is UNACCEPTABLE, since we cannot get the time spent doing this back, but surely enough those who didn't do the tacticals will be able to get more stratos in the future.

I don't believe it's even the first time that a tactical didn't list a stratos emblem as a reward but gave one anyway and I never missed one. Never did you revert them.

Edited January 4, 2017 by treb1e

[MystMan]

59 minutes ago, treb1e said:

I don't believe it's even the first time that a tactical didn't list a stratos emblem as a reward but gave one anyway and I never missed one. Never did you revert them.

I'm certain that every single one of them listed it in the past. If not on the display in our orbiter, then in the mission reward screen. 

The snowball event did not have it listed anywhere. It may have been called "tactical alert" but we all know there was zero tactical content about it.

Also, 8 stratos for a single event? (split in 2 sessions).  Tactical Alerts have never worked like that. It was always 1 per event.

Edited January 4, 2017 by MystMan

[treb1e]

1 hour ago, MystMan said:

I'm certain that every single one of them listed it in the past. If not on the display in our orbiter, then in the mission reward screen. 

The snowball event did not have it listed anywhere. It may have been called "tactical alert" but we all know there was zero tactical content about it.

Also, 8 stratos for a single event? (split in 2 sessions).  Tactical Alerts have never worked like that. It was always 1 per event.

I'm not so sure, and anyways if it was only listed in the mission reward screen one would have done the alert already thus defeating the point "I didn't do it cause I didn't know".

Also, not the first time there are many stratos in quick succession, check Tactical Recall Bonus Weekend.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Tactical_Recall_Bonus_Weekend

4 emblems in 4 days with no endurance mode, just an alert.

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by treb1e

[MystMan]

Just now, treb1e said:

I'm not so sure, and anyways if it was listed in the mission reward screen one would have done the alert already thus defeating the point "I didn't do it cause I didn't know".

We specifically asked around in my Moon clan this very question on the first day if those who participated got a stratos emblem in the mission result screen. The answers were a resounding "no". So we were certain that there were to be no stratos emblem reward and ignored the event. Until on day 4 somebody noticed their stratos count go up, surprising everybody.

 

[Soldier1312]

Too bad i found this thread just now. I don't wear stratos emblem 24/7, check my profile each 5 mins and I don't play 24/7 so spare me the "you should do it no matter the reward if you care" arguments. I had all of them until now and having one day to obtain reward that is kinda significant in some meaning of the word, without even listing it as an obtainable. I could pass few things, let people enjoy new sygils for them. Also reactor... got 22 atm, if I'm tired I'd rather pass and give myself some rest. So I agree with DE. Stratos was challenge reward and it was listed.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Soldier1312

[(PSN)Magpie_42]

Associating a Stratos emblem to an infantile exercise like snowball PvP is diluting its importance.

Was this a "tactical alert" or a test to see if they can force PvP on the players that detest it?

What's next? Stratos emblem out of Lunaro? (I know... don't give them ideas...)

When did these "me too" half baked offshoots became the main game?

Having had my rant... Thanks DE for correcting the problem! Better late than never...

[Snib]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)Magpie_42 said:

Associating a Stratos emblem to an infantile exercise like snowball PvP is diluting its importance.

Was this a "tactical alert" or a test to see if they can force PvP on the players that detest it?

What's next? Stratos emblem out of Lunaro? (I know... don't give them ideas...)

When did these "me too" half baked offshoots became the main game?

Having had my rant... Thanks DE for correcting the problem! Better late than never...

The problem is not that we think that silly conclave TA should earn stratos emblems, the problem is that it did for the weeks it was up and we invested hours of (afk) time to get it.

DE doesn't fix Hema research costs with the argument that it would be wrong towards the players that invested the time to farm it, yet with respect to the stratos they do a 180° and say it would be unfair towards those that did NOT invest the time.

And they didn't only revert the stratos, now they also changed the glyph into an emblem. Really now?

Obviously there can be no solution that pleases everyone except making sure those problems don't get created in the first place. One job...

Edited January 5, 2017 by Snib

[MystMan]

6 hours ago, Snib said:

The problem is not that we think that silly conclave TA should earn stratos emblems, the problem is that it did for the weeks it was up and we invested hours of (afk) time to get it.

Obviously there can be no solution that pleases everyone except making sure those problems don't get created in the first place.

I agree that it's unfortunate this all happened and that it has affected people in a negative way. Everything about the event was pretty much on auto-pilot since DE was away for the holidays. Nobody was around to notice and fix whatever errors were present. But like you said, there is no way to smooth all this over without one side ending up displeased.

If we can look for a silver lining, then it's that those who wasted 4 hours pushing themselves through this ordeal can now say with 100% certainty that when they didn't like pvp before, they sure as hell will never ever like it again. Hopefully this will send a message that the player base will never want to experience such an event again with pve rewards / potatos behind pvp activity.

If DE wants to make PVP events (with pvp rewards), it's fine as long as there is a separate PVE event by its side so there is something for everybody.

And DE, please don't make an Archwing event!  I'm one of the 1-2% who enjoys Archwing a lot but even I can say that it would be a bad idea. This game is bigger than me and I know the majority dislikes Archwing. Until we get a 3D map and fix it so people don't get seasick (space sick?), it shouldn't get an event just yet.

[Niriel]

On 2017. 01. 03. at 9:43 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

I've merged a couple threads with the sentiment 'Stratos Emblem as a reward wasn't communicated, nor did it follow rules because you could get a new one each day, etc'.

This is a problem, we agree. After talking with the team we are reverting all Stratos Emblems as they have always been associated with the Challenge mode at the end of previous Tactical Alerts. We'll let you know when we run the script, it will affect all who got this unintended item. Sorry for the frustration.

To be honest, I find the double standards horribly disturbing: While the Mutagen Sample cost for the Hema is not being changed because some clans have already made the effort to collect the necessary samples, the same notion here including the fact that quite a few people only did the event precisely because of the Stratos Emblems (hey, it was a Tactical Alert after all...) is being entirely disregarded.

 

EDIT: On the point of 'a new one each day', I recall a Tactical Alert maybe late 2015, where for four days straight, four previous Tactical Alerts were brought back for a single day, each with a Stratos Emblem - though those were associated with Challenge Modes as mentioned by @[DE]Rebecca.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Niriel
Addressing another point

[Venryl]

On 2017. 01. 03. at 9:43 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

I've merged a couple threads with the sentiment 'Stratos Emblem as a reward wasn't communicated, nor did it follow rules because you could get a new one each day, etc'.

This is a problem, we agree. After talking with the team we are reverting all Stratos Emblems as they have always been associated with the Challenge mode at the end of previous Tactical Alerts. We'll let you know when we run the script, it will affect all who got this unintended item. Sorry for the frustration.

Any news on this yet?

[treb1e]

On 4/1/2017 at 7:33 PM, treb1e said:

I'm not so sure, and anyways if it was only listed in the mission reward screen one would have done the alert already thus defeating the point "I didn't do it cause I didn't know".

Also, not the first time there are many stratos in quick succession, check Tactical Recall Bonus Weekend.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Tactical_Recall_Bonus_Weekend

4 emblems in 4 days with no endurance mode, just an alert.

 

 

On 5/1/2017 at 5:10 PM, Niriel said:

To be honest, I find the double standards horribly disturbing: While the Mutagen Sample cost for the Hema is not being changed because some clans have already made the effort to collect the necessary samples, the same notion here including the fact that quite a few people only did the event precisely because of the Stratos Emblems (hey, it was a Tactical Alert after all...) is being entirely disregarded.

 

EDIT: On the point of 'a new one each day', I recall a Tactical Alert maybe late 2015, where for four days straight, four previous Tactical Alerts were brought back for a single day, each with a Stratos Emblem - though those were associated with Challenge Modes as mentioned by @[DE]Rebecca.

@Niriel yeah, it was the Tactical Recall bonus weekend which happened right before Christmas 2015 (what a coincidence).

@[DE]Rebecca About hidden stratos rewards, you don't even need to investigate that far back in time. For example, Halloween 2016 Tactical Alert and the Index both gave a stratos emblem and it wasn't specified anywhere. It HAS happened before, they were NEVER reverted. I can find more proof with other tactical alerts when I have more time if need be. See:

Again, the players you wronged are the ones who didn't do the alert not the ones who did do it.

Compensate them (it's for you developers to find out HOW) if you want, don't wrong us in the process.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2017 by treb1e

[MystMan]

ehh...  only real way I see to fix all this involves a time machine and telling DE to never do this. 

The moment pvp and pve tangle together, the outcome is always the same: angry villagers with torches. Pve and pvp should never do the nasty with each other, they should stay far away on opposite sides of town. Cause look at the result we are in right now: angry villagers with torches. It was 100% predictable, it certainly turned out just as I knew it would when I noticed the "conclave" word on my liset display on day 1. And I see yet another negative feedback topic was made earlier today about it (I stopped counting after 6). None of the previous TA had received this much negative feedback (obviously of course because they were pve, made for the majority of the playerbase).

It should never have been labeled "tactical alert". Cause it wasn't.  The meaning, symbol. the goal of all previous TA was always us being de-buffed vs buffed AI enemies/map and some unique goal that needed to be accomplished to earn the rewards. This snowball thing had no AI enemies and it had no unique goal. You didn't earn the reward, they were just handed out by participating (then what was the point of scoring?).

Whether the previous TA listed their rewards properly or not is moot at this point, people would have done them anyway without protest because they were pve.

They could change each of the stratos emblems of this event into 2k endo. Half an hour of forcing oneself through each day of the event sounds synonymous like doing a daily sortie and getting 2k endo. So if you did all 8 days you get 16k endo. That's not too shabby.
 

Personally I wished the TA would involve enemies in holiday skins just like in previous TA:
(Easter - Corpus with bunny ears. Halloween - Jack-o-Lantern Grineers and Ancient Infested with buzzsaw arms and Juggernaut Behemoth with pumpkin head.)

They could've made this event about excavation but re-skin the excavators as giant snowmen that fall from the sky and we can only defend them from the corpus by throwing snowballs at them. And we energize the snowmen by taking powercells skinned like carrots. We would have played that for sure.

[treb1e]

On 3/1/2017 at 9:43 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

I've merged a couple threads with the sentiment 'Stratos Emblem as a reward wasn't communicated, nor did it follow rules because you could get a new one each day, etc'.

This is a problem, we agree. After talking with the team we are reverting all Stratos Emblems as they have always been associated with the Challenge mode at the end of previous Tactical Alerts. We'll let you know when we run the script, it will affect all who got this unintended item. Sorry for the frustration.

 

13 hours ago, MystMan said:

Whether the previous TA listed their rewards properly or not is moot at this point, people would have done them anyway without protest because they were pve.

The point is far from moot, it's the false assumption they are working with in order to revert the emblems.

Might I add, it was the point made by you along with the one about too many stratos emblems.

This has been proved wrong with objective historical data, just check my previous post.

So now you are switching to opinions, about a proper tactical alert etc. I think you and others are frustrated this awful tactical gave stratos,  and are striving to find any reason to get them reverted. There just isn't an objective one without inconsistence.

I happen to think this was a terrible tactical alert, and I would be thankful if they don't mix pve and conclave ever again. Nevertheless, many enjoyed this tactical and are swearing they will play conclave from now on thanks to this alert.

But again, opinions. Everybody has one.

Data is another thing, and data shows what happened here is nothing new and it has never been cause for the action they are intending to take.

 

 

 

[MystMan]

24 minutes ago, treb1e said:

Data is another thing, and data shows what happened here is nothing new and it has never been cause for the action they are intending to take.

What part are you referring to is "nothing new" ?
That we get multiple emblems in a row  or  that we got rewarded emblems without them being listed at all?

Cause if it's the former, you're right.  But at least the events were differently unique from one another each day instead of the same activity for the entire duration. The TA Recall was also a recycled repeat TA from a year before. So nothing questionable there, no room for doubt.

If it's the latter (what this thread is really about), all previous TA did list the emblems as a reward on our liset display screens or our reward screen, whether there was an endurance mode or not.
This snowball event created doubt because unlike all previous TA the stratos reward was not listed anywhere and its premise was vastly different from anything we have experienced before.

Edited January 7, 2017 by MystMan