New Quest: The Glast Gambit Feedback

[Death_Master_]

Index part was long and boring.

And after long time of boring work we get only blueprint, parts are 8h more farm...

[Chad1661]

I had my hopes up for this new quest, with a great start at the first mission, but then ... a big let down!   No new frame parts introduced during the quest.  The first mission was the only thing worthwhile.    The rest of the missions are a collection of index missions with relatively easy regular missions?   The story line puts the lives of the children as a wager for the index games.   Each index mission is a set of three matches with reduced ammo on the third.  The most frustrating one is where you have to win but only by a 10 point spread.   There is an all or nothing game with a instant death zapper at the goal -- we never figured that one out, because if you lose, which is most likely, then you go onto a spy mission before the final much easier index game.   With all the hype in the story line, I was expecting a very difficult game in the final game, but we consistently scored very high, with the enemy team scoring very low in all three matches.   All that and all I got was just a Nidous blueprint?  Reallly?   Now I have to grind through the new mission to get all the parts -- no thanks.   Got enough frames that I rarely use already.

 

 

[Yurinaga]

On 25/12/2016 at 5:14 PM, Bearssi said:

The Index missions were not interesting while playing solo. On the 10- point margin index i lost twice rabidly in a row because the npc controlled tenno just could not stay alive and were not returning any points. One round the enemy got 11 points suddenly at the last second while i was waiting for the timer to run out with 9 point lead, visually could not see any green points on the enemy. The 320 000 credits i lost because of this is more than i get in a week with casual play, i guess i just won't be doing this quest line ever.

I know, utterly maddening! I lost over 1M in failed attempts due to that arbitrary nonsense. All my victories up to that point were in excess of 10 points yet it's only now that Anyo is scared off by it??

[NaeRyda]

The quest starts nicely and the index part would have been nice if it ended with the third match, then got something more along the lines of... well a actual quest, heck, even the old Help Clem quest was mor interesting than this entire index feast.

[OverClock78]

I'm having fun so far. Relax those of you who aren't pleased. It's a filler quest. A little patience and you will see another cinematic quest with some better content. I love how this game is refusing to stagnate and pay endless fanservice, but rather changes with each iteration. 

[Praefator]

I can't start the quest. The old fart from perring sequence is saying that he won't work with me.

It might have something to do with me being on bad terms with this syndicate.

How can I start this quest? Please help!

[Doomsong]

Seriously who tought the 10 pts index difference bs fire him. You guys did some rly anoying stuff but making peoples lose 140k credits because of your own incompetence to design a decent AI team... 

[Yurinaga]

16 hours ago, Praefator said:

I can't start the quest. The old fart from perring sequence is saying that he won't work with me.

It might have something to do with me being on bad terms with this syndicate.

How can I start this quest? Please help!

You need to have finished The War Within first. Being on bad terms makes no difference, meaning that he'll thank you profusely upon completion only to go back to sending Eximus squads after you.

[Caelward]

Well the credit loss via the Index quest was enough to make me buy Nidus with Plat.

Now I don't have to bother finishing the quest ever.

What more feedback do you need beyond, 'content was annoying so I spent money'.

[Chaos_Raider]

The victory margin is far too low. As a solo player I've found it's practically impossible to actually complete, given that the spectres' AI is so terrible they bleed way more than I can make up for. I'll be 9 points ahead, waiting for the end of the round and suddenly at 1 second left the enemy will cash in over 14 points and I'll have no way to recover it, not that I can actually stop them because they just charge the objective. I don't see how you're supposed to actually deal with or control the spectre's at all, it's impossible to win with them as your allies, and it would be much better if they weren't even there. I've bled 320k from it and I'm not going to do it any further due to not only the risk of crappy AI losing me the game and the possibility of trolls if I join other people (which I've heard complaints about). I don't have much money to spare and I can't believe Nidus costs so many credits; I think I'd rather keep my credits and avoid Nidus, I personally don't find it to be worth the cost. I'll just stick to perfecting what I already have thanks.

Edit: It appears that others also consider this quest to be infuriating and a waste of time spent on not only trying to grind through boring conclave missions but also time spent grinding up credits in order to actually even TRY to start the quest. It seems that only the people who have way too many credits are fine with it, with is an issue given that this is a small proportion of the population. Well played DE, you're bleeding our pockets by creating crappy content

Edited January 8, 2017 by Chaos_Raider

[Celthric317]

First mission was fun, then it turned into a complete horrorshow. 1-2 hours of nonstop Index missions on the same node, oneshotting crap opponents with my Hek. 

Even if you win the first two rounds then lose the third, you lose completely. All this crap and then I only get the overall bp? 

No thanks. 225 platinum is cheaper than such a waste of time. Very dissapointing. 

[DenialBroh]

As a big fan of DE's work i'm rather disappointed. I can freely say that this quest is the worst quest ever made by DE or anybody really. First mission is amazingly fun, with these NPCs around and having to close the infested out,i even though this quest was gonna be fun.

But oh boi, i was wrong , five, FIVE index matches during the course of the quest. One you to win within a ''margin'' (Needless to say its a extremely bad ideia) and other one where you simply can't win and leave the player feeling completely unfulfilled. The choice thing was also awful.

O nonononono, that doesn't end up there. Nidus, the infested warframe i was waiting so much was actually behind ANOTHER grindwall, because the quest only rewards you his blueprint, you actually have to grind a ''new gamemode'' called infested salvage, apparently it drops on Rotation C of that NEVER ENDING mission. and even then, you're not guaranteed with a Nidus part, some times what can show up is......80 endo, stretch that cool mod eh, that when you don't get another part you alredy had.

Also the new weapon called Hema must be researched on the biolab in the dojo, what is the cost again for research? oh yeah FIVE THOUSAND mutagen samples. i barely have ten of these.

DE i really like warframe and your work  and i don't want it to sink down, think more about these stuff

Edit: After 20 long runs, finally got nidus, he better be worth it.

Edited January 23, 2017 by DenialBroh

[Snuffy123]

alright so the mission where u have to lose by 10 or less is so stupid

3 times now ive lost because i got one shot, even on 1k health by that little osprey, making me lose 480k credits, and i cant do anything about this because if i move away from my capture point they score, if i dont kill them, they score, if i do kill them i get 1 shot and they score, if i score then we win but i still lose, if i start the mission its a garunteed loss, the ai may be stupid but the people doing the quest dont seem to understand that you need to win by 10 or less point causing me to lose, over and over again, at least make the margin 15 or 20 cause this is just rediculously frustrating and annoying losing credits you worked so hard to farm for, over and over until eventually u give up on the mission because its so annoying 

[SoltanisFoo]

I hate this quest so much. It is the sole reason why after coming back to this game two weeks ago, I'm just giving up and quiting. The index part is horrible, especially the pay 160k and try to keep the score within 10 points part. I try to score 9 points and then just hold off the other team, but everytime they rush me at the end, one shot me even though I have Redirection, Vitality, Armored Agility and Quick thinking mods on and then they score 20-30 points I lose.  I've made myself broke 3 times trying to finish that part. If I am working for the Perrin group, WTF aren't they footing the bill for the bet? Not to mention that you force us to complete a game mode that most of us don't even like 5 or 6 times.

I'm just done with it, this quest has made me so mad that I just don't even want to play this game anymore. I've done every other warframe specific quest and this one is by far the worst by degrees of near infinite magnitude. I'd rather farm golem for atlas with the new six axis archwing flight for a month than ever do this horrible index quests with their insanely high bid costs and just absolute crap game system to begin with.

Just horrible, I hope the person that designed it at least has the audacity to be ashamed of making it.

[cyberpip2001]

Not even the Hannibal lectre - Secura Lecta can provide me with enough credits to enable me to continue with this quest after going for broke ...so the final score : -

Nef 10 point spread - 10... Tenno - 0

Have to agree with the above, Glast should be footing the bill for this one ...

[TARINunit9]

On 1/11/2017 at 5:56 PM, SoltanisFoo said:

 I try to score 9 points and then just hold off the other team, but everytime they rush me at the end, one shot me even though I have Redirection, Vitality, Armored Agility and Quick thinking mods on and then they score 20-30 points I lose.

After you score the 9 points, are you picking up all the points they drop? You lose several points of max health for each point you're holding, which is very bad if you're holding, say, 30 points. My solution was to pick up all the points, then jump waaaay off the cliff to dump them out of bounds, then farm back up to nine points if they score during the eight seconds of respawn

[Zammorach]

Perhaps 100k is a tad expensive to wager when you can loose it all when you loose connection to the hoast or a hoast migration. 

[3xplosiveDucky]

I've spent 50,000 credits on this mission. 

 

I took a break from this game little less than a year ago, and came back. Finished the titania quest, that was good. Figured might as well finish this one off, people like nidus. This damn mission, has me not wanting to play this game, and hating myself when i play it. I just have to farm up the credits, and then still lose on round 3 because they scored 11 points in the last second.

 

WOOPS! You lose because of our dumb 10 point limit, so good bye credits. It's already a game about farming, can this not be what I need to farm credits for.

[RedDirtTrooper]

I don't even... I could see exceeding the margin making the quest not advance, but that's an index win, no way, now how, not ever, should that result in credit loss. It doesn't even make a tiny bit of sense. Absolutely horrible nonsense. "Ringers in my Index!" Seriously, who the hell thought this was a good idea? I don't even care that much about the credits lost, just the completely illogical way you win the match and fail the mission. I'm calling foul on this crap pile. I could see a sly Nef "oh ho ho no, you won't trick me that easily." And you take your 20,000 credit win reward and have to repeat it again, but I guess that would have been too difficult, or maybe just made too much sense. At least the first portion of the quest was mildly interesting before you all decided to force your players who are completely uninterested in your pvp in to your faux pvp trainer sim again. You don't even clearly communicate what the stupid margin number is, we're just supposed to guess from the UI clue and the non specific voice over. How hard would it have been to just clearly state, "NO MATTER WHAT TENNO, DON'T WIN ANY ROUND BY MORE THAN 10 POINTS" Since it's the complete opposite of what the whole stupid mode taught us during the preview.

In closing, this quest would have been fine, if slightly tedious and boring because Index is bad, but the ridiculously low margin and lack of clear definition on the win conditions means it just left a horrible taste in my mouth. Seriously, you have a bunch of players you already mildly annoyed just by making us play Index to begin with, some clear communication so that you didn't make it exponentially worse would have been great.

[Rakawan]

1 hour ago, RedDirtTrooper said:

I don't even... I could see exceeding the margin making the quest not advance, but that's an index win, no way, now how, not ever, should that result in credit loss. It doesn't even make a tiny bit of sense. Absolutely horrible nonsense. "Ringers in my Index!" Seriously, who the hell thought this was a good idea? I don't even care that much about the credits lost, just the completely illogical way you win the match and fail the mission. I'm calling foul on this crap pile. I could see a sly Nef "oh ho ho no, you won't trick me that easily." And you take your 20,000 credit win reward and have to repeat it again, but I guess that would have been too difficult, or maybe just made too much sense. At least the first portion of the quest was mildly interesting before you all decided to force your players who are completely uninterested in your pvp in to your faux pvp trainer sim again. You don't even clearly communicate what the stupid margin number is, we're just supposed to guess from the UI clue and the non specific voice over. How hard would it have been to just clearly state, "NO MATTER WHAT TENNO, DON'T WIN ANY ROUND BY MORE THAN 10 POINTS" Since it's the complete opposite of what the whole stupid mode taught us during the preview.

In closing, this quest would have been fine, if slightly tedious and boring because Index is bad, but the ridiculously low margin and lack of clear definition on the win conditions means it just left a horrible taste in my mouth. Seriously, you have a bunch of players you already mildly annoyed just by making us play Index to begin with, some clear communication so that you didn't make it exponentially worse would have been great.

The UI in the Index mission clearly says "Victory Margin 10 points." 

And Glast clearly tells you not to win by too much or Anyo will back out.

 

Edited January 15, 2017 by Rakawan

[RedDirtTrooper]

19 minutes ago, Rakawan said:

The UI in the Index mission clearly says "Victory Margin 10 points." 

And Glast clearly tells you not to win by too much or Anyo will back out.

 

Victory Margin 10 Points doesn't tell you a thing though. It's grammatically ambiguous. Do I need to win by at least 10 points, but not go too high over that? Do I need to win, but by less than that? Do I need to win by less than that, or more than that, on every round? Just the majority of rounds?

These are all questions I had upon loading up that mission the first time, and the only way to avoid it costing you a chunk of credits, even when you should have in fact WON 20,000 credits regardless of the margin, is to guess perfectly the first time. I'm sorry if you disagree, but I stand by my opinion that putting players in that position is terrible design. If you use ambiguous language and don't specifically enumerate goals, some people are going to interpret them differently than you. It wouldn't be as big of an issue if not for the second bad design decision of overly penalizing players for winning a game. Anyo backing out of increasing his bet for the relic I would have no issue with, but he signed up to play Index, and the result of the game should stand regardless of it progressing the overall quest to the next stage.

Edited January 15, 2017 by RedDirtTrooper

[Rakawan]

52 minutes ago, RedDirtTrooper said:

Victory Margin 10 Points doesn't tell you thing though. It's grammatically ambiguous. Do I need to win by at least 10 points, but not go too high over that? Do I need to win, but by less than that? Do I need to win by less than that, or more than that, on every round? Just the majority of rounds?

These are all questions I had upon loading up that mission the first time, and the only way to avoid it costing you a chunk of credits, even when you should have in fact WON 20,000 credits regardless of the margin, is to guess perfectly the first time. I'm sorry if you disagree, but I stand by my opinion that putting players in that position is terrible design. If you use ambiguous language and don't specifically enumerate goals, some people are going to interpret them differently than you. It wouldn't be as big of an issue if not for the second bad design decision of overly penalizing players for winning a game. Anyo backing out of increasing his bet for the relic I would have no issue with, but he signed up to play Index, and the result of the game should stand regardless of it progressing the overall quest to the next stage.

Except Glast specifically says you cannot win by too much. Thus you already know you cannot score a certain amount more than the other team. You cannot exceed a margin of a certain number of points.

Then you load in and the game tells you the margin is ten points.

For anyone that actually pays attention its quite simple.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Rakawan

[RedDirtTrooper]

3 hours ago, Rakawan said:

Except Glast specifically says you cannot win by too much. Thus you already know you cannot score a certain amount more than the other team. You cannot exceed a margin of a certain number of points.

Then you load in and the game tells you the margin is ten points.

For anyone that actually pays attention its quite simple.

1. Glast never defines "too much". He doesn't define the win conditions either. In fact, if you just started the game, and got to this quest, and had no idea what The Index was you would have no clue other than "I'm in some sort of an arena with a score board". This isn't an issue until this mission because you just blow the stupid AI team away by some absurd number without having worry about it. Then, suddenly, you are just expected to know in spite of never being told. Also, our previous experiences with The Index required not only that you win, but that you hit a set number of points as well.

2. They give you a margin, but they do not, ever, in any way, define what that margin is actually for. It could easily be the margin needed for victory or the margin you don't want to exceed victory by. No way of actually verifying which it is other than to hit the limit and see what the game says, which leads to:

3. Your line about "anyone that actually pays attention" is just a passive aggressive insult, saying I'm stupid and you aren't because of how you interpreted the badly presented and ambiguous information. It's condescending, incorrect, and inconsiderate. You basically flipped a coin, came up tails, won the toss, and then called anyone who didn't pick tails stupid. I'm not stupid and I do pay attention, but I went over the margin by a very few points, just figuring out if it was a win condition or a limit and then sat and watched helplessly as the enemy team failed to score any more points before the timer expired several minutes later. If you can't recognize the ambiguity of the situation then I don't know what to tell you, because for anyone that actually pays attention it's quite simple.

So in closing, stop being condescending. It just makes you seem rude. 

[Rakawan]

47 minutes ago, RedDirtTrooper said:

1. Glast never defines "too much". He doesn't define the win conditions either. In fact, if you just started the game, and got to this quest, and had no idea what The Index was you would have no clue other than "I'm in some sort of an arena with a score board". This isn't an issue until this mission because you just blow the stupid AI team away by some absurd number without having worry about it. Then, suddenly, you are just expected to know in spite of never being told. Also, our previous experiences with The Index required not only that you win, but that you hit a set number of points as well.

2. They give you a margin, but they do not, ever, in any way, define what that margin is actually for. It could easily be the margin needed for victory or the margin you don't want to exceed victory by. No way of actually verifying which it is other than to hit the limit and see what the game says, which leads to:

3. Your line about "anyone that actually pays attention" is just a passive aggressive insult, saying I'm stupid and you aren't because of how you interpreted the badly presented and ambiguous information. It's condescending, incorrect, and inconsiderate. You basically flipped a coin, came up tails, won the toss, and then called anyone who didn't pick tails stupid. I'm not stupid and I do pay attention, but I went over the margin by a very few points, just figuring out if it was a win condition or a limit and then sat and watched helplessly as the enemy team failed to score any more points before the timer expired several minutes later. If you can't recognize the ambiguity of the situation then I don't know what to tell you, because for anyone that actually pays attention it's quite simple.

So in closing, stop being condescending. It just makes you seem rude. 

Again, if you pay attention to what he says, Glast tells you that winning too strongly, aka by too many points, will scare Ned Anyo off. 

The game helpfully gives you the exact margin to stay within. Ten points. 

In closing I didn't "flip a coin". I paid attention to what the NPC said, asked others when I was unsure, and looked for answers to make sure I was doing it right.

[RedDirtTrooper]

5 hours ago, Rakawan said:

Again, if you pay attention to what he says, Glast tells you that winning too strongly, aka by too many points, will scare Ned Anyo off. 

The game helpfully gives you the exact margin to stay within. Ten points. 

In closing I didn't "flip a coin". I paid attention to what the NPC said, asked others when I was unsure, and looked for answers to make sure I was doing it right.

I pushed to the margin on one single play through, once. I didn't say it was some kind of conspiracy. I didn't claim it was a tedious puzzle. I said the voice description and UI label were unnecessarily ambiguous. I don't "look for answers" and spoil quests for myself. Wouldn't have needed to anyway, as soon as the mission failed it removed the ambiguity, and I knew exactly what was required of me to win the next time. My point was that that failure was unnecessary and wouldn't ever have occurred if either the voice over or UI had been better designed, and that this is bad because every single round of Index is like a tiny little hate filled punishment from DE to their players. So, nothing more to argue about, just my opinion. You've already made it perfectly clear that you don't agree. Stop attacking my opinion like yours is somehow "better" or "more correct" than mine.