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Infested Salvage Feedback


SPplayer76
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Here's my feedback.

First of all: adding such a grind for the parts is dumb. Why do we have quests that give us all the parts for the Warframe (Mirage, Limbo) and then we have this abomination? Even the quests that end up unlocking a boss which drops the parts (Atlas, Mesa) are acceptable: at least you have a mission that usually takes 5-10 minutes and you are guaranteed to get one of the 3 parts after that. Even the quests for Inaros and Titania, despite the out-of-quest grinds, had smoother progressions, because you knew that you would certainly have the piece you need after those N enemy kills / N plant scans. This, on the contrary, is a long and repetitive quest that opens a long and repetitive grind with absurd rates (I got 1 piece out of 5 tries of 4 waves each), probably making Nidus the most tedious Warframe to get, even more than Equinox with her 8 parts.

But let's pretend that this is normal (I hope it doesn't become normal for the Warframes to come, or I'll seriously consider quitting), and let's talk about the Infested Salvage itself.

As many players already said, it's too damn long. Let's assume that keeping all 3 vaporizers active for the whole round makes it as long as an Interception round with all 4 bases captured: even so, keeping all 3 vaporizers active is way more difficult, so I would expect the mission to be more forgiving by associating that completion speed to 2 vaporizers instead of 3.

I played the mission both solo and in group, and yes, I noticed that the more players there are, the less injectors are dropped. When in solo, I could say the drops are a bit too many, while for 4 players are too few. A good drop rate should be somewhere in the middle, and together with that, there should be 3 constant flows of enemies, one for each vaporizer, coming from relatively near each vaporizer (if there are 3 flows, but 2 are near the same vaporizer, enemies from both flows will converge there, leaving 1 vaporizer alone). If I decide to take care of vaporizer C, but enemies get to A and B only, I end up not being able to develop my bubble. Sure, I could go and fetch injectors dropped near A and B or some other player could bring them to C, but aren't we heavily punished for leaving the bubbles?

Incidentally, moving from one vaporizer to another is extremely frustrating in the hologram map, unless an Ivara or a Nova provide a means of transport: if you fall to the ground floor you have a hard time moving back up because there are lots of sharp edges that stop your jumps (I even managed to get stuck once inside that structure hanging from the ceiling between A and B, had to use the unstuck command). If you don't want to rebuild the map and/or redistribute the vaporizers in a more sensible way, at least make the armor corrosion slower, as other players have suggested.

Finally, something nobody pointed out yet (at least from what I've read): I understand that it's realistic (well, as much as Warframe can be) if a destroyed vaporizer can't be recovered in any way, but the mechanic is way too punishing in my opinion. It would be like making Interceptions so that the first 2 bases the enemy re-captures can never be captured back, not in the current round nor in the following ones. I think there should be at least a possibility of recovering a destroyed vaporizer at the start of each new round. Maybe make the destroyed vaporizers restart from 25% integrity?

Edited by Forcereborn
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Infested Salvage is a poor reskin of Interception with extra doodads attached. I understand it's basically a section of the Jordas Verdict stitched together into something else. That makes me want to do the raids even less.

I've only played it once to get a feel for it and I won't play it again. The room I played in wasn't very enjoyable. I'll just list off everything I found playing and describe my view, as someone that's played Warframe for about three years.
- there's no indication of how much anti-serum is required to activate Vaporizors, so you wind up aimlessly springing between them to run into the abundance of pre-Parkour 2.0 clipping issues on ledges and walls
-  the console/vaporizer mechanic is neat until you realize you can't keep all three topped off in a 4-person squad consistently clearing spawns, so the by round 2 we were down to 'moderate efficiency', which translated to over ten minutes per round
- the environment effect doesn't make any sense. its corrosive and reduces your armour, okay that makes se--but its ACTUALLY the Pox thing which instantly kills you if your red armour percent on the red and black tileset goes to 0.
Let's diverge from the list for a moment. So, going in wanting to get the new frame you are completely blindsided by unexplained mechanics, unless you've already played JV's Raid or looked it up on the wiki. Read that sentence as 'Unless you have meta-knowledge about the mission you are unprepared'. What does the mission type 'Survival' entail? Go to this place, kill dudes, activate life support capsules. And all of that is explained in about fifteen seconds when you spawn. Nothing in Salvage is explained that effectively at the gate. In fact, the name doesn't even match what you do. At no point am I salvaging. I'm standing around a mister stuffing it with green orbs, not going around to boxes taking stuff. Salvage should've been something like Spy; go to this place, go get the stuff. To throw in an element of risk there's some parkour/detection challenges like Spy missions where the crate self-destructs or something.
Nope. Stand by the mister and stuff green orbs in it to keep a console alive long enough for Lotus to hack a cargo manifest (?) together and get an item (??) from these consoles. (??? That's not how cargo manifests work)
Back to the list;
- the power overload just exists, and does Something™. I think it kills all the Infested around it and that's all.
- the Inject Serum button on the other side of the power overload console is, again, utterly unexplained. I thought it had more to do with the mission than the misters.

- the inject serum button becomes irrelevant for some reason about five minutes in because the pox stops insta-killing you. Why? No idea. But it sure was nice to not be punished for existing in the level.

This mission type is awful to play. The mechanics are dull and uninteresting. The gameplay is repetitive--that's saying something for Warframe since you play the same missions over and over.

And finally we get to the part where Nidus drops from Rotation C with diluted drop tables, a piece of information I only know because everyone hates it and has been posting about it. And so do I. I'm not grinding for this frame until the atrocious acquisition method is changed. Not to mention the rewards for the mission are--as usual--not indicative of the level or difficulty of the mission.

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Just gonna post here since everything's gonna be merged later anyway.

 

If they want us to grind the hell out of Oestrus you'd think they would actually make the damn mission work.

 

"Needs a lot of work" is an understatement, it's completely broken. It simply doesn't work. The frame might as well be unobtainable at this point.

- The spawns are broken, there's hardly eny enemies that you can kill. And by that I mean THERE'S NOT EVEN A SINGLE ENEMY THAT SPAWNED. NOT EVEN ONE. And then 5 chargers showed up when the Vaporizers are at 40% and at that point I just Alt+F4'd away. I'm not dealing with this.

- The antiserum drop rate are ridiculously low and isn't shared with teammates. Having your precious antiserum fall in the hands of an unwitting player that keeps pumping it on a full Vaporizer is incredibly annoying, and yet the player behaviour is somewhat justified because the game doesn't even tell you what to do. Half the players that I met doesn't even have an Injector because, what are they supposed to do with it? Play an equally broken raid version of this?

- The mission progress are incredibly slow even with all 3 consoles up. Not to mention the vaporizers have really short uptime and you need at least 2 serums for the consoles to work. Combine that with the 2 points above and one round could last for more than 20 mins.

- What does overloading the machine do? And what does the other panel requiring the serum even do? 

- Why is Stretch, Vital Sense and 80 Endo on C rotation and why are their chance equal to Nidus' parts? What purpose does these mods serve other than spiting your playerbase? Why can't I even be rewarded with at least 1 Nidus part after I went through all that suffering? 

- EDIT - Just a heads up, but there's 4 non-Nidus item ( 80 f**king Endo, Metal Auger, Vital Sense, Stretch ) and 3 Nidus part and all of them has equal drop rates. You have 14% to get the part that you want and 58% to get garbage.

 

You messed up a simple, cool idea of an infested frame by locking it behind an unplayable mess and crap drop rates. Congratulations.

At this point I don't even know if they're intentionally pulling this or if they legitimately have no idea how the game plays for the average player.

 

EDIT - Finally got the mission to work on my 7th run. It went quite smoothly and is, surprise surprise, actually pretty fun when it works since you're gonna be on combat for the entirety of the mission.

And then the spawn bugged again on my 8th. So yeah.

Also going solo really, really helps. The serums spawn a lot and I mean a lot more when you're alone. You still have to quit if the spawn's slow though because not even Nekros Desecrate can save you from that.

Edited by TotallyLagging
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3 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

the only reason interception isnt slow is because of being able to maintain all 4 towers at all times. if you maintain the 3 distillers its the same speed. the problem is the drop rate of the antitoxin so you will see nodes red longer.

I'd totally do that... If there were enough antiserum drops.

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22 minutes ago, TotallyLagging said:

Half the players that I met doesn't even have an Injector because, what are they supposed to do with it? Play an equally broken raid version of this?

Do you need one? An item you can't even buy/craft before doing a completely unrelated quest/trial?

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11 minutes ago, Helljack84 said:

Do you need one? An item you can't even buy/craft before doing a completely unrelated quest/trial?

Yeah, you need an Antiserum Injector to activate the Vaporizers. The Injector only hold 3 charges which is enough for 1 Vaporizer... Which wouldn't be a problem if the Antiserum drops were shared with teammates.

Edited by TotallyLagging
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The most frustrating thing about this awful mission is the fact that the required time to get it done has an almost non-existent drop rate, of the 12 times I've attempted the mission we managed to clear 4 wave once and 1 wave twice simple because we weren't getting enough drops. this needs to be fix not just because you need to do it to get nidus if you don't want to spend plat on him but because it is a poorly designed mess. 

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48 minutes ago, TotallyLagging said:

~snip~

you are clearly overreacting. if you spent more time on the mission you would have noticed that the pulse discharge kills all infested in the room and the armor which lotus infact tells you about in the transmissions removes the debuff the team gets. there are just a few things they need to fix and all would be well. AI, spawn, antitoxin drop, drop table. we dont need a party wide share of those antitoxin because you wouldnt be able to use them on different nodes since you can only hold 3. what i keep reading is that de is making people be active in the mission and those people want to be lazy.

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7 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

 AI, spawn, antitoxin drop, drop table. 

Of which every single one of those I've already complained in my post, so what overreaction? What part of my post is encouraging "lazy gameplay"?
 

And there were no transmission from my experience. Not to mention there's hardly any case where I would ever want to use the pulse considering that nothing ever spawned to begin with. 

Edited by TotallyLagging
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2 minutes ago, TotallyLagging said:

Of which every single one of those I've already complained in my post, so what overreaction? What part of my post is encouraging "lazy gameplay"?
 

And there were no transmission from my experience. Not to mention there's hardly any case where I would ever want to use the pulse considering that nothing ever spawned to begin with. 

"Needs a lot of work" is an understatement, it's completely broken. It simply doesn't work. The frame might as well be unobtainable at this point.

that is overreacting. if the frame was unobtainable you wouldnt be able to get it with plat either. on the pulse discharge room i never had the issue of enemies not spawning so it could also be a host/client thing. lotus for sure tells you about the armor in that map with the armor but also on that map the enemies get stuck in that one corridor but enemies still spawn. shared antitoxin just means 1 or 2 people will just sit on the point and not kill anything just pressing x if that isnt lazy to you then you have some thinking to do.

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2 minutes ago, TotallyLagging said:

Of which every single one of those I've already complained in my post, so what overreaction? What part of my post is encouraging "lazy gameplay"?
 

And there were no transmission from my experience. Not to mention there's hardly any case where I would ever want to use the pulse considering that nothing ever spawned to begin with. 

I agree. Even if there was an in-depth explanation of every mechanic during this new mission, it still wouldn't be good enough. This is because the mission is timed, in a room that is full of all sorts of crap, with either lots of enemies coming at you, or no enemies at all even though you expect there to be. This mission is just a big jumbled mess, combined with occasional bugs, bad design, and bad spawn rates, it's all too confusing even if Lotus tries to yell the instructions at you.

Saying you missed a message from Lotus at the beginning of a cluster-fudge endless mission is no excuse, this whole mission needs to be tweaked and toned down.

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3 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

"Needs a lot of work" is an understatement, it's completely broken. It simply doesn't work. The frame might as well be unobtainable at this point.

that is overreacting. if the frame was unobtainable you wouldnt be able to get it with plat either. on the pulse discharge room i never had the issue of enemies not spawning so it could also be a host/client thing. lotus for sure tells you about the armor in that map with the armor but also on that map the enemies get stuck in that one corridor but enemies still spawn. shared antitoxin just means 1 or 2 people will just sit on the point and not kill anything just pressing x if that isnt lazy to you then you have some thinking to do.

Fine. "Unobtainable by normal, grinding means". 

And it is broken. I have tried 4 times, no enemy spawned and the mission can't progress. And the spawn is confirmed broken by DE :

3 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Infested Sabotage is currently bugged; we're working on fixing the broken spawn rate. Hopefully that should make Nidus' acquisition less 'monotonous' once that issue is hotfixed out. 

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2 minutes ago, TotallyLagging said:

Fine. "Unobtainable by normal, grinding means". 

And it is broken. I have tried 4 times, no enemy spawned and the mission can't progress. And the spawn is confirmed broken by DE :

 

im not disagreeing that its bugged i even made a bug report about it too. but flying off the handle knowing they are trying to fix it come on this is why i said lets not lose control. the mission concept is nice does it need work? yes but it seems you are angry because you want to get nidus and thats ok. for me he was well worth the 225plat but dont let that anger get the best of you just tell them whats wrong and wait for the hotfix because you know its coming.

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A "new" mission type they added purely to facilitate the farming of this new frame. Feels like they took the annoying aspects of survival, excavation and interception and mashed them together.

 As some have mentioned, solo seems to be more efficient as serum drops more often. Except now it appears to be unplayable due to enemy spawn that will stop randomly. Looks like ill put off this warframe for awhile. 

I understand they dont want people to get their hands on new content but when you have a new misison type that doesnt work as expected and with a grinding aspect that seems even worse than ivara, it is just a big turn off to the players. 

I expected this but coupled with the uninteresting and tedious quest ( that vaguely links with the Nidus warframe? maybe) This is just a really disappointing update for me overall.

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2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

what i keep reading is that de is making people be active in the mission and those people want to be lazy.

Well, there's "keeping people active so they are more engaged" and then there's "too many things going on at the same time and people get frustrated and rage quit".

 

Unfortunately the salvage mission is currently in the later category IMHO.

 

I think making the antiserum able to be vacuumed will make the mission flows better. But of course DE needs to fix the buggy spawn first.

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All righty. Here's my thoughts on the mission's Good, Bad, and Ugly.

The good:

  • The concept. A race against the corrupting influence of the Infested, managing resources until you can find what you need. Survival meets mobile defense.

The bad:

  • The concept doesn't really work with endless missions. The rapid degradation of consoles doesn't make it harder, it makes it tedious.
  • Once a console is broken, it's broken for the rest of the mission, and slows everything down even further. A race against time becomes a race against "I need to go to work, cook dinner, go to the dentist, and I don't have time for this."
  • The rate of decay for both armor and consoles is horribly matched to the rate of decryption.

The ugly:

  • Spawns, Drops, Nidus being a 15% drop chance when he's literally the only reason to play this mode as it exists now.
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this new mode absolutely sucks

i noticed over and over, that the antiserum was not dropping at all for one or two people, and why have the anti-serum fragments drop there if they have no purpose to the mission? waste of time

the fact that i'm forced to buy a frame with plat because you guys refused to do something right and rushed S#&$ out of the door as broken boring repetitive content pisses me off. we already have a lot of rinse and repeat, how about something new that's enjoyable and not a panic fest of "omg where's the antiserum...wait i'm dead"

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I got some Nidas parts ideas (which will never be implemented lol). What if after you do the quest there is a 2nd mission option on the salvage mission node on Eris where you're given the option to play the mission for normal loot, and a new option for a special mission where it only drops Nidas parts?

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The problem i mainly see with the infestation salvage mission is, those cells not dorp for each individual, so if one picks it up its gone and can only be used for one shield or his own armor protection, why isn't this shared like resources for each? One for each to pick up, this whould atleast fix some bit of broken droprate or not spawning enemys.

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Hey Guys! I think I found the answer to all this shenanigens. recantly another company named "Leyou" was mentioned during another topic. it almost starts to make more sense now as it seems as if this company is somewhat responsable for all the ludacris grind. it's not DE who wants more money, it's Leyou

 

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49 minutes ago, MIZTERDANKEE said:

Hey Guys! I think I found the answer to all this shenanigens. recantly another company named "Leyou" was mentioned during another topic. it almost starts to make more sense now as it seems as if this company is somewhat responsable for all the ludacris grind. it's not DE who wants more money, it's Leyou

 

It was 1 year ago. http://games.mxdwn.com/news/leyou-technologies-holdings-purchases-digital-extremes-creators-of-warframe/

Although both those companies are heavy p2w poster-children, we can only hope they wont make the game unfun just to encourage its players to pay money to skip content. That doesn't really look like the approach that has made Warframe a success.

 

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I would have less of a problem with it being a buggy mess if it werent for the fact that JV is also a buggy mess.

You cannot kludge together a game mode from the parts of another game mode and then justify pushing it out the door in that state. Especially when the source has a reputation for being bugged to hell. Either push it out the door as a beta, and dont lock content behind it, or get it at least playable. Because as it stands, theres no point playing this until it gets patched out.

Griping aside, when it works (1/3 attempts...) it was actually kinda fun. Constant stream of enemies and frantic resource management? Sign me up. Just... get it working first.

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