In A Time of Giving, the Greed Shows Stronger

[Valthryn]

It seems like DE is prying ever more at our wallets with every new piece of content.

The last two frames released in the game are hidden behind an insatiable hours-long grind (Titania, Nidus), making it look like a better decision to simply buy the frames.

Mind you that other frames are either gotten from farming bosses or awarded effectively from their respective not-too-grindy quests, not requiring any outside grinding to obtain.

 

However,

 

Titania requires hours of insufferable plant scan farming to obtain

and

Nidus requires hours of farming the same mission over and over after you've already completed his quest, in order to have one chance every 4 rotations to obtain one part blueprint for the Warframe.

Let's, of course, not forget Vauban Prime requiring 7,000 (initially 14,000) oxium and 20 nitain extract to craft.

Let's also not disregard Dev's reluctance to break down any of the RNG walls blocking players from obtaining good or even half decent Riven Mods, or even getting them for the weapons that they want, causing good rivens to cost anywhere from a few hundred to over 3,000 platinum.

and all of this is because of an arbitrary grind.

If Devs can't release content that is actually worth us paying $10-20 for, or in the case of rivens, $200 for, then they will choose to hide new content behind insufferable RNG walls, and charge us to bypass the arbitrary grind instead.

A new Warframe isn't worth $15 in a game about collecting them, considering all of the platinum costs associated with primes and upgrading, which are fine.

A new weapon isn't worth $15 either.

So, to make us choose the platinum option, Devs have chosen to hide one of the newest weapons behind an absurd wall of 150,000 mutagen samples for (my clan's) Dojo research.

 

and most importantly,

 

60% damage, crit damage, and crit chance for your Soma Prime is worth nowhere near 3,000 or even 2,000 platinum. So why are people asking that much for it? Because it's near impossible to get those stats, and abysmally rare (even more so now) for you to even get a Riven mod for the Soma in the first place. What did devs do about his problem? Why, of course, make it worse. By adding shotguns and secondaries into the Riven pool, now your meta primary mods are even rarer.

Grind is necessary in MMO's, and paying to bypass the grind is nothing new.

But when the grind is the only thing that makes an item worth what you pay for it, and this starts to become a theme with new content and updates, then the greed starts to show on Dev hands.

It's up to us not to be consumer retards and show them that we disagree with this direction.

And even if this isn't because of greed, just a new design approach that's so penny-pinching that it might as well be, then we still need to make our voices heard.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Daggerpaw1

[Gelkor]

19 minutes ago, Daggerpaw1 said:

It seems like DE is prying ever more at our wallets with every new piece of content.

The last two frames released in the game are hidden behind an insatiable hours-long grind (Titania, Nidus), making it look like a better decision to simply buy the frames.

Wait, what about Titania was hard to grind, like, at all?  I'll admit Nidus is a pain, but half of the problem with his grind was the map is bugged all to hell, the've fixed the bug and even increased hacking speed for smaller groups. It's now much faster solo.

Edit: I just tested the solo. Before it was taking me about 18 minutes to complete a solo run of 4 waves, now it takes about 9 minutes.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Gelkor

[TheScytale]

4 minutes ago, Daggerpaw1 said:

60% damage, crit damage, and crit chance for your Soma Prime is worth nowhere near 3,000 or even 2,000 platinum. So why are people asking that much for it? Because it's near impossible to get those stats, and abysmally rare (even more so now) for you to even get a Riven mod for the Soma in the first place. What did devs do about his problem? Why, of course, make it worse. By adding shotguns and secondaries into the Riven pool, now your meta primary mods are even rarer.

Now sorry for the language, but this is plain stupid. If people want to pay thousands of plat for a mod whose weapon is already strong enough, let them do it. This is the whole point of free market, and it has always been like this. If you're upset about free market, Riven mods aren't as much a problem as exclusive items and Primed Chamber specifically, none of which you've mentionned. If you're upset about Riven mods, this isn't one of their major flaws, simply because the problem is created by the community and not by DE.

 

And... Titania wasn't hard to get. The only annoying part was Vestan Moss, which would take 3 missions of your lifetime. 

[Suncake]

Titania was fine, Vauban Prime costed a lot, but it was still bearable, Nidus part farm is also okay (remember the old Elytron farm?), but the Hema research cost is just insane. I'm MR22 with 1500h+ in my Warframe profile, and I had about 2500 mutagen samples. Since my clan is Storm-sized, we need 50 000 samples to finish the research. This is WAY too much. If this trend continues, then Warframe will probably be another F2P game that has fallen prey to its developers' greed.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Suncake

[ashrah]

4 minutes ago, Suncake said:

Titania was fine, Vauban Prime costed a lot, but it was still bearable, Nidus part farm is also okay (remember the old Elytron farm?), but the Hema research cost is just insane. I'm MR22 with 1500h+ in my Warframe profile, and I had about 2500 mutagen samples. Since my clan is Storm-sized, we need 50 000 samples to finish the research. This is WAY too much. If this trend continues, then Warframe will probably be another F2P game that has fallen prey to its developers' greed.

i have 2800 smaples after 4600h game time so i am forced now to join clan with ppl rank 20+ to can get wepon..

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Well...  while what I'm about to say here won't change the situation and I get you...  there are other ways in this game to get what you want.  Like you could always unlock some rivens and re-roll them for sale, etc.  (heck if they're good I'll buy them from you.)   If you don't want to do that you could rank up some R10 mods by farming some endo and sell those, etc.  Then use the plat to buy the pack from the market, etc.

This is a beautiful thing about Warframe, there are ways around things if you're creative.  

If you look at Nidus I just have to wonder how many hundreds/thousands of man hours went into creating him.  DE needs to pay their staff and keep the lights on.

[Flirk2]

29 minutes ago, sushidubya said:

This is a beautiful thing about Warframe, there are ways around things if you're creative.

Right. And if you want to do research? Not get the weapon. Just do the research? How much ''creativity'' would you need to get 5k mutagen samples if 1800 hours of playing the game gave you 3.3k? And 30 minutes of 4 man ODS on a Nekros gave... 39 samples? ''a few Nerkos runs'' indeed.

The drop rate on Derelicts for the mutagen samples is about 1 per minute or 1 per wave.

Let's be a one man ghost clan? 5k of those will take about 83 hours.

Let me guess your objection: ''Buy boosters''?

Ok, it's gone from two 40 hour weeks to one 40 hour week.

''Ninjas play free''? More like ''This is your second job now. No bathroom breaks allowed.''

[LabraD0rk]

I had Titania in approximately 4 hours of starting the quest.  I really think that this post is just another, "Whhhaaaa. I want my free to play game to just give me everything within an hour of booting my computer and every Riven that I roll should be a god tier Riven, because I'm entitled to have the best stuff." I'm really getting tired of these posts that slam the devs and game mechanics for having a barrier to entry for EVERY player. There are ways around every single complaint that deals with mechanics and a thousand "Get Good" posts for almost anything. The constant moaning of players that DE wants you to spend plat--which you can farm for free--is beyond irritating. I hate to mention it, but $73 million for a game that supports 23 million registered losers subscribers isn't breaking any financial records. Those numbers wouldn't look very greedy to any analyst and DE IS entitled to make money for their stellar gameplay and thousands of hours of content. Honestly--the game isn't broken, Rivens aren't broken, the crafting costs aren't broken. IMHO it's your perspective of what a business is and how to run one that's broken. Sorry if this comment seems conflictory, I think it's good for people to voice their opinions and disagree. Although--so much of the hate and doom that people in the community appear to be voicing these days seems to revolve around their personal entitlement and idea that nothing should promote platinum cost. 

[LabraD0rk]

46 minutes ago, sushidubya said:

Well...  while what I'm about to say here won't change the situation and I get you...  there are other ways in this game to get what you want.  Like you could always unlock some rivens and re-roll them for sale, etc.  (heck if they're good I'll buy them from you.)   If you don't want to do that you could rank up some R10 mods by farming some endo and sell those, etc.  Then use the plat to buy the pack from the market, etc.

This is a beautiful thing about Warframe, there are ways around things if you're creative.  

If you look at Nidus I just have to wonder how many hundreds/thousands of man hours went into creating him.  DE needs to pay their staff and keep the lights on.

Heck, I'll buy your garbage unrolled rivens for 50 ~ 65p a piece. Prime parts for fair market value. Go do invasions and sell "Multipass Salad 5" keys for 10p/piece. Take a Limbo and go kill Kela De Thaym a bunch of times, sell her mods for 10 ~ 50 plat a piece.

[ChillZi]

16 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

''Ninjas play free''? More like ''This is your second job now. No bathroom breaks allowed.'

LMAO :D

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

14 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Right. And if you want to do research? Not get the weapon. Just do the research? How much ''creativity'' would you need to get 5k mutagen samples if 1800 hours of playing the game gave you 3.3k? And 30 minutes of 4 man ODS on a Nekros gave... 39 samples? ''a few Nerkos runs'' indeed.

The drop rate on Derelicts for the mutagen samples is about 1 per minute or 1 per wave.

Let's be a one man ghost clan? 5k of those will take about 83 hours.

Let me guess your objection: ''Buy boosters''?

Ok, it's gone from two 40 hour weeks to one 40 hour week.

''Ninjas play free''? More like ''This is your second job now. No bathroom breaks allowed.''

Sigh...  See this is one of those glass half empty, half full things...  I did write "while what I'm about to say here won't change the situation and I get you... "   I was just offering a friendly solution to the OP who seems frustrated.  

You don't need to sell or convince me of your logic like I don't understand what's going on.  Also...  It's your choice to see it as "your second job" whereas I just look at this whole game as entertainment.  I don't ever grind the stuff that I don't want to, etc.  I chose to be in a large clan, so I don't put pressure on myself to be in the same predicament as what you've described, etc.  Again...  I'm not saying the situation is right or even commenting at all about that.

Take it easy.  Not everyone here in this forum is looking to takedown someone in an argument.  XD

[(XBOX)Black Mouse]

They call it War-farm for a reason. If all was just given freely I would get board.  We need the grind to have a better enjoyment of the prizes. Successfully completing a hard task releases more endorphin. The chemical in are brains that rewards us. Easy tasks release less. Warframe knows this and they want to keep you coming back. God bless them, been come back for over two years now.     

[LabraD0rk]

Just now, (Xbox One)Black Mouse said:

They call it War-farm for a reason. If all was just given freely I would get board.  We need the grind to have a better enjoyment of the prizes. Successfully completing a hard task releases more endorphin. The chemical in are brains that rewards us. Easy tasks release less. Warframe knows this and they want to keep you coming back. God bless them, been come back for over two years now.     

It's... it's like you get me... How, how is it you aren't just angry that everything is obtainable within an hour of being released?

[Volinus7]

"Ninja Pay Fee"

[Xzorn]

I never had much problem with the costs of most of these things. However I'm a pretty heavy farmer with 3k in-game play time.

I've been able to afford research for a Shadow Clan solo because I have a lot of resources...

A Lot.

Spoiler

But when I'm looking at this number.

And these numbers.

Something doesn't add up.

I'm currently looking at a 15k Mutagen Sample research cost that I could reduce by kicking RL friends from our clan we made together but even then I'm looking at solo 5k.

I'm quite confident either the cost or the drop chance will be changed. Despite official responses because if I can't afford it and am unwilling to farm that much for it. The average player sure as hell going to have problems dealing with the cost.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Xzorn

[LabraD0rk]

39 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I never had much problem with the costs of most of these things. However I'm a pretty heavy farmer with 3k in-game play time.

I've been able to afford research for a Shadow Clan solo because I have a lot of resources...

A Lot.

  Reveal hidden contents

But when I'm looking at this number.

And these numbers.

Something doesn't add up.

I'm currently looking at a 15k Mutagen Sample research cost that I could reduce by kicking RL friends from our clan we made together but even then I'm looking at solo 5k.

I'm quite confident either the cost or the drop chance will be changed. Despite official responses because if I can't afford it and am unwilling to farm that much for it. The average player sure as hell going to have problems dealing with the cost.

Yeah, I see the point of everyone on this issue. However--I recall the Tellurium (sp?) grind and what it used to be. Neural sensors and Orokin cells used to be the same thing. I'm not convinced that this won't be similar. If DE is trying to put up this barrier to entry to promote early plat sales. I don't see a problem with it, it's a similar concept to timed exclusives. 

[CarrotSalad]

Nice point about kicking friends from clans who cant/dont contribute thier fair share. I've been in top guilds before in other games and seen clan leaders who will undoubtedly do this.

They're virtually breaking up communities with this outrageous resource cost. (at the very least the cost should be on the foundry blueprint not on clan research).

[UNO168]

digital extreme/DE is not an nonprofit organization (NPO), in addition of saying what you don't like in this game, say what you would like to see in this game and perhaps pay for.

it's a mistake to even make riven mods tradeable in the first place, stop buying/selling riven if you want riven mods to become what it's supposed to be: a rebalance to outdated weaponry

always vote with your hard earned money.

Edited December 23, 2016 by UNO168

[Delta-Epsilon_Limit]

1 minute ago, UNO168 said:

digital extreme/DE is not a nonprofit organization (NPO), in addition of saying what you don't like in this game, say what you would like to see in this game and perhaps pay for.

it's a mistake to even make riven mods tradeable in the first place, stop buying/selling riven if you want riven mods to become what it's supposed to be: a rebalance to outdated weaponry

How is DE an NPO? I've spent more money on this game (prime access) than I would an entire year for a World of Warcraft subscription.

[Xzorn]

35 minutes ago, ArabTRWrist said:

Yeah, I see the point of everyone on this issue. However--I recall the Tellurium (sp?) grind and what it used to be. Neural sensors and Orokin cells used to be the same thing. I'm not convinced that this won't be similar. If DE is trying to put up this barrier to entry to promote early plat sales. I don't see a problem with it, it's a similar concept to timed exclusives. 

 

Tellurium was a new resource though added with Archwing. Mutagen Samples are really old.

I wasn't playing when Archwing was added so I can't say much for that moment but when I jumped back on I had no problems with research and building using Tellurium and I was solo funding a Shadow Clan.

The Archwing progression came fairly naturally. I spent a lot of time on Grineer Interception where I lvled most of the archwing items, I got parts I needed, R5 cores and Tellurium and once I was done I never went back.

Derelict doesn't give you rewards players want anymore. Most players have no need for Lethantis coords or Alad V Coords. Hell most don't care about Corrupted mods. So that's why no one went there and why players still don't want to go there. It's not rewarding. Once you get the research you'll never go back. That's really crappy design.

[Clazzeh]

Sure Nidus is a bit of a grind, but I just farm with my friends when they are on I'm in no massive rush.

 

Though Titania was really easy though, her quest line didn't take nearly as long as you seem to think, I could speed through that in 2-3 hours if I wanted.

[TheScytale]

6 hours ago, Xzorn said:

But when I'm looking at this number.

And these numbers.

Something doesn't add up.

I feel like the answer to the whole problem is exactly here. They could just make those "blue" resources tied to factions, instead of planets. That would allow for more consistency and at the same time allow for more resource variety per planet, as they would be able to drop 4 resources just like the void.

This isn't even the first time it's been suggested, I've seen it many times on the forums yet those truly thought-out threads rarely get their deserved attention.

[Xzorn]

6 minutes ago, TheScytale said:

I feel like the answer to the whole problem is exactly here. They could just make those "blue" resources tied to factions, instead of planets. That would allow for more consistency and at the same time allow for more resource variety per planet, as they would be able to drop 4 resources just like the void.

This isn't even the first time it's been suggested, I've seen it many times on the forums yet those truly thought-out threads rarely get their deserved attention.

 

Faction based research drops makes a ton more sense.

The labs are based on the faction so the research materials should be.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I have virtigo and cannot play archwing at all without gettin violently sick. So riven and sorties are locked to me permanently. Im mr19 and probably just goin to quit at this point. Agree with op...this game is sinking

[Suncake]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

I have virtigo and cannot play archwing at all without gettin violently sick. So riven and sorties are locked to me permanently. Im mr19 and probably just goin to quit at this point. Agree with op...this game is sinking

Ask a friend to complete the archwing part of TWW for you