DE's War against Veteran Players and Collateral Damage

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Agree. Back in the days, people would have big clans because of dark sector, now that is gone and having a huge clan is a pain because most people wont contribute. I used to be warlord of a huge clan and when tellurium was introduced as a resource for weapons, there were no more than 20 players contributing and not even the active players would play archiwing that much.

All vets left and started a smaller clan. Some of them left and the problem was still there.

I left and the problem is still here.. lol

 

[MichaelSD]

As with many things, the whole clan part of the game is haphazard and arbitrary. DE is building subsystems which are not integral subsets of the game. The clan thingy is a throwback from the old days and it seems it is not the current "plaything" of DE. So yeah, it makes no sense at all.

[Space-PETA]

52 minutes ago, (Xbox One)VTG xSTEVIEx said:

Stating hours is next to useless, a player can have thousands of hours and have only spent it in the void , (as was the case with pre relic system, thousands might be a gross exaggeration but the point still stands) I don't have nearly as much as hours as others, and I have 6k. Maybe I'm just speaking from a place of pure ignorance(console player obvi) but I don't see what the problem is, this JUST came out and we're bickering because we have to work for something longer than we have to, or are the drops really that bad for them? 

"it just came out" while many long term players don't even meet the research requirements for their clans. The problem is that the amount of mutagen samples needed is way far out of a reasonable range.

I don't mean to come down on you, but 5k mutagen samples is a lot even for a fully active ghost clan (500 per player if everyone contributes the same amount) Not to mention larger clans need up to 100x more resources to do the same research and who knows how many players are active in those.

Edited December 25, 2016 by SketchyCow

[OldGodKing]

DE not only dislikes veterans but they also seem to hate casuals. Both because veterans are knowledgeable enough to know where to farm optimally and not spend cash on the game, casuals because they're casuals. They're not going to spend the time to grind like veterans and neither are they gonna be invested enough to pay for content.

What they've shown for the past year is that all they really want are the whales. People who will drop cash to skip the grind. Who wants to bet that they decided to release Nidus and the Hema right before Christmas so that there won't be a devstream where you can voice your complains?

All that devstream talks are all just garbage. They lie to your face and they know it. "We're gonna reduce the grind, guys!"

Edited December 25, 2016 by MegasBee

[(XBOX)BluAina]

7 minutes ago, SketchyCow said:

"it just came out" while many long term players don't even meet the research requirements for their clans. The problem is that the amount of mutagen samples needed is way far out of a reasonable range.

I don't mean to come down on you, but 5k mutagen samples is a lot even for a fully active ghost clan (500 per player if everyone contributes the same amount) Not to mention larger clans need up to 100x more resources to do the same research and who knows how many players are active in those.

Don't worry you're not coming down on me, I'm speaking with no experience of this,was just wondering what's the actual problem here, the amount needed per clan tier or maybe the need for more clan wars tiers, looking at mountain (300) then move (1000).Or is it this nearly unneeded resource before now is needed in such abundance with what I've heard is comparable to the rare resources?  

[NZPIEFACE1]

Just now, (Xbox One)VTG xSTEVIEx said:

Don't worry you're not coming down on me, I'm speaking with no experience of this,was just wondering what's the actual problem here, the amount needed per clan tier or maybe the need for more clan wars tiers, looking at mountain (300) then move (1000).Or is it this nearly unneeded resource before now is needed in such abundance with what I've heard is comparable to the rare resources?  

It's the second part.

It's as if a Ghost clan needed 1 billion ferrite to research a new warframe

[CorvusTheHeretic]

40 minutes ago, (Xbox One)VTG xSTEVIEx said:

Don't worry you're not coming down on me, I'm speaking with no experience of this,was just wondering what's the actual problem here, the amount needed per clan tier or maybe the need for more clan wars tiers, looking at mountain (300) then move (1000).Or is it this nearly unneeded resource before now is needed in such abundance with what I've heard is comparable to the rare resources?  

It's a hard to farm resource that nobody needed in such quantities before. It is only marginally easier to farm than Neurodes or Neural Sensors. Those ones are generally needed in quantities of 1-5 to get things, a bit mopre for the research. 

All things considered, the price is about ten times bigger  than it should be, and even then it would require twice as many Mutagen Samples as was required to complete all Dojo researches that were released prior.

[SenorClipClop]

6 hours ago, Coldstreme said:

You may as well have not even posted, what you said contributes nothing other than your bragging about "I can do it solo, git gud" and I have already adressed responses like this in the original post

I think you're getting too sensitive about this. In other threads (commonly about Sorties) where OP says, "this is broken, fix it", you'll always have people replying saying, "I did this myself without issue". It provides important examples that problems which certain individuals have with the game are not universal and are still all opinion-based.

[Gsterman]

People don't seem to understand why this is an issue and are quick to call out those who are complaining as whiners, yet those same people don't grasp why people are upset about this.

When people who have played this game since it's conception don't even have the amount required to get this weapon then there's a problem. There are plenty of things that needed resource sinks and mutagen samples are not one of them. It's true that this game has always been about grind but the grind, up until recently, has always been manageable. And for me, someone who's in a clan with two active members, getting to the 5000 required is going to be a nightmare and something not worth farming. [DE]Taylor mentions that the Hema is a unique weapon that offers variety. Why would you not want to give that to as many players as possible? Variety is something that Warframe, a game that is self-described as a game about grinding, absolutely needs to break up the monotony.

We've had to fight DE to get Vauban Prime's ridiculous crafting costs. We've had to fight them for universal vacuum (which we still don't even really have), we had to fight them when the Viver nerfs came around, and now we have to fight them on this. None of these things should be things we have to fight them for. It's incredibly disappointing to see the direction they're taking with this game and I can't help but feel like it's at least somewhat in part due to them being purchased by Perfect World, a company notorious for lousy business models.

And the worst part of all is that on all of these issues you've had people defend DE, saying that the people complaining are just whiners and losers and that they need to shut up and deal with it. But what they don't understand is that complaining is how things get better. If we don't voice our disapproval, then nothing will ever change. The amount of pandering to DE that goes on here is honestly disappointing and it really shows when the unofficial subreddit is a better place for discussion than the official forums.

And through all of this we still have gotten barely any real content this year, and the content we did get has been mediocre for the most part.. We've had one major update that took a year to make (and let's be honest, it wasn't worth waiting a year). We had Specters of the Rail which was so functionally terrible that anyone could have sat down, played it for 20 minutes, and have seen the obvious problems and bugs with it. We had Lunaro which was a conclave addition and not relevant to the majority of content. We had the Star Chart rework which was recycled content. And we have had 2 operations, the last of which was over half a year ago (and the latest one was turned into a quest and would have been much better as an event). And yet people wonder why others are getting frustrated with the lack of real content and the increasingly terrible design choices.

I love this game and will continue to love it, but the choices as of lately have disappointed and worried me. It's the same for many others, and being quiet and taking it won't do anymore.

[Guapscotch]

DE, we don't want to fight you. We aren't your enemies. You can't expect to do something like this and not expect harsh criticisms. You can't expect politeness when you aren't polite to us, your community, the ones who try to believe in you and try to support you.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Guapscotch

[(PSN)robotwars7]

well, I checked yesterday and I have about 1600 Samples myself. I'm more within Veteran territory, but many, including my friends have been in Warframe much longer than I have. if the only other person currently active in our Shadow clan has as many Samples as I think he does (probably around 2-3k), this'll be easy.

that said, while I agree that DE have gone a bit wild (again), nobody is forcing you to get the Hema ASAP, and it isn't going anywhere. yes, it is wrong of them to assume that every clan is 100% active, and all members contribute, when my own clan proves this (two of it's founding members no longer play, and I have already left a previous clan because I was the ONLY one active). and there are, what, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Clans out there?.

at this point we all have a choice:

option A: have a small rant, then buckle up and get the research done by whatever means necessary, at whatever pace, and eventually be able to say "I got the Hema, and didn't have to pay a cent!",

option B: do like the Corpus do and trade for the platinum needed to buy the Hema, and help clanmates do the same by farming stuff with them like Corrupted mods and Prime parts they can sell for plat to get their own Hema: then everyone has a Hema, and you won't be bitten in the a$$ until something comes along later that requires Hema research (but by then you'll likely have a lot more samples.

option C: mention it on the forums over and over, in either a constructive or not so constructive manner, until either you get bored or DE finally folds and nerfs the requirements, the latter of which is about as likely to happen as me becoming the Pope.

Pick your Poison, swallow it with a Snowball and a fifth of Vodka, and have a merry Christmas!

 

[Tuxie]

Agreed 100%, this is a dark path that they are walking down.

[UrielColtan]

7 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

Posts like this make absolutely zero sense and brings absolutely nothing to the conversation other than blind hate. Of course DE "cares". If they did not, they wouldn't be in constant connection to their community.

Hold over from the earlier days, when DE better understood the value of the community. Back in the old days DE would even post on the forums, now no more. Stuff like Tennocon are brainstorms from the likes of Rebecca, who clearly does not control everything.

 

Quote

They wouldn't have weekly and bi-weekly streams where they reveal new gameplay and answer questions. They wouldn't be making whole pages full of bugfixes with each big update. They wouldn't be making said updates in the first place. They wouldn't be trying to rebalance warframes to make the game more challenging. They wouldn't be trying to make the new player experience more engaging. They wouldn't have delayed the War Within so long due to disagreements with its story. They wouldn't be pouring their blood, sweat, and tears into this game almost 24/7 for people like you.

Many games do that, especially free to play, so as to hold on to customers. Rebalancing warframes isn't really part of that because multiple times it has actually been stealth nerfing of farming potential.

Quote

Yeah DE is not going to always see eye to eye with their community. No dev team does 100% of the time. Just because they do something you dislike doesn't mean they suddenly "don't care about us anymore". That's a very childish way to look at things. Grow up, please.

Doing something that's an obvious cash grab is the dilemma here, and should be called out.

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by UrielColtan

[White_Matter]

I read and agreed with every word of it.

I outright bought the bundle, before I was aware of the research and build costs. After I found out, I immediately logged in to see how much Mutagen samples I had. Eventhough I don't farm resources past my occasional needs, I thought I'd have a stockpile of samples after almost 4 years of playing the game. Well guess what, I had 613. In total.

Yeah, a guy who has been playing this game since march 2013 was able to gather up only 600 of those things. I admit that aside from certain times I'm a casual player. I never put so much hours into grinding, especially for the last year, but still... 

Edited December 25, 2016 by White_Matter

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

Why does this company keep trying to destroy itself 

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Yes.

Also as a veteran i find relic system offensive.

Is hard to find "specific relic" party now

[Firetempest]

If hema was to force half filled or solo clans to buy the weapon, that has now locked off all future bio research if they continue the trend of requiring the previous weapons to be researched to even start the next new research. Its not something we will know tell they use the bio research again unfortunately.

Would be unfortunate to know fasion frame was unable to keep wf profitable itself. And now force solos to get $20 packs before discounts for individual bio research weapons from here on out unless you start putting in the common Korean ftp time sinks to get babysteps closer to goals. Because you know they will make them juuuust powerful enough to make you think about it every 50/75% off.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Firetempest

[zacRupnow]

7 hours ago, DeterrentMan said:

Im glad other people still do. Maybe they will change something like they did with the Vacuum nerf which was, when they nerfed it, intentional. ;)

Yeah it was intentional to panic grab players into shutting up about universal vacuum. Obvious malicious action and utter contempt from the devs.

SotR made it clear, the only person in the entire company that actually plays the game is the one person with no power, Rebecca. Every update since SotR has been a statement of 'Screw You All!' to the entire playerbase, not just those of us with over 2k hours. TWW re-writes were just for Kuva and Rivens to sell boosters and plat, the whole quest is meaningless, you kill or defeat the queens before you can get Kuva but Kuva is acquired and dialogue delivered as if TWW hasn't even started.

[UrielColtan]

Quote

 

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a %!& (apparently the nonplural is censored?)

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

 

 

 

I don't find this appropriate, but I get the basic idea you were going for and agree with the rest of what you said.

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by UrielColtan

[Letter13]

Providing constructive feedback is all well and good, but creating threads designed to bash the developers and make players incensed by claiming that DE is somehow out to attack veteran players is not.

There is also a thread for discussing the ghost clan resource requirements for the Hema located here: 

Locking.