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Auction House is really needed.


death390
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5 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Well hopefully you'll agree that deductive reasoning is sufficient proof, please feel free to point out any flaws in my logic.

First my premises:

  1. Making trading easier via an auction house would lead to more people buying and selling items than under the current system;
  2. Demand in Warframe is inherently more limited than supply, as most players will only require one of each item, but can collect many of each for sale;
  3. Basic economic theory and the law of supply and demand hold true in the Warframe economy;
  4. An increase in supply, relative to demand, will cause prices to fall.

Now the conclusion:

From (1) we can see that both supply and demand would increase with the introduction of an auction house, but (2) means that the increase in supply will outstrip the increase in demand. This, when (3) and (4) are held to be true, must inevitably lead to a fall in prices.

So there you are, proof that the introduction of an auction house will cause a fall in prices.

Unless, that is, you want to directly challenge any part of my logic above.

Speculation doesn't equal proof. One person in this thread gave one example of a game with a bad auction house, Diablo 3. And that was caused because of direct manipulation of the market by the developers themselves. And all of the countless games with successful in-game auction houses/trading posts...? Why haven't all of their game economies failed?

All of the detractors also act as if it's a matter of fact that DE would be unable to put any regulations or restrictions on their own in-game auction house and that the entire game's economy would fail.

In another thread, one of the posters that claimed an in-game auction house would fail because people would buy up all of item X and then mark it up? That very same poster was already doing that on warframe.market. Of course that would contradict your theory that everything would be undersold.

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1 hour ago, Ninjacalypse said:

In another thread, one of the posters that claimed an in-game auction house would fail because people would buy up all of item X and then mark it up? That very same poster was already doing that on warframe.market. Of course that would contradict your theory that everything would be undersold.

So you admit that gaming the system would be possible?

 

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1 minute ago, Rakawan said:

So you admit that gaming the system would be possible?

 

Oh my gosh! You got me! Please. The CURRENT SYSTEM is ALREADY gamed.

People buy parts, they make sets, they mark them up 300% and try to pawn them off on new players who don't know better.

@ChuckMaverick claims that if there was an in-game auction house everything would be UNDERsold not oversold.

There will always be market fluctuation but if people had a rough baseline for item values, it would be a lot harder for all of the tradesharks to scam newbs...like the "generous" individual that tried to sell me a Nekros Prime set for the low, low price of 320 plat and told me it was the lowest price I would get anywhere and he was doing me a favor. Can you believe...I was able to buy a Nekros Prime set for under 100 plat? Not from him obviously.

Currently, people make fake buy and sell listings on warframe.market because you can list anything for any price. They do this to drive prices up and down on specific items.

If there was an in-game automated auction house, if you posted a buy listing, you would need to put the platinum and credit tax in escrow. If you put up a sell listing, you would need to put the item and your credit tax in escrow. An equal amount of daily trades would also be held in escrow. This would prevent the sort of market exploitation that ALREADY occurs without regulation.

So please...do tell about how people *WOULD* game the system...when they already do it on a regular basis.

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4 hours ago, Kuestenjung said:

ANd here you are wrong, just because it may be so in your region doesn´t mean it´s the same everywhere. Syndicate weapons are 25p for month now in my region even new ones.

If auction houses would work well Blizzard wouldn´t have shut down the D3 auction house.

no the reason the diablo 3 auction house was shut down was that real currency could be used to buy things and that was causing major issues.

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3 hours ago, Ninjacalypse said:

In fact, Steam has a built-in market/auction house. CSGO and Dota 2's economies haven't "crashed." In fact, the games are thriving because of the item market.

You can't compare Valve's in game economies with Warframe's because of the following reasons:

  1. In order to use the Steam Market, a Steam user has to have made at least one purchase of $5 or more on their Steam account. This means that the Steam Market is inaccessible to pure free-to-play players. Warframe's trading is available to all players, not just the paying ones, allowing pure free-to-play players to earn premium currency and avoiding the "pay-to-win" scenario that happens to many free-to-play games. If Warframe were to implement the same requirements as Steam Market, then Warframe would essentially be pay-to-play.
  2. Steam Market has a 5~10% tax on items, depending on the game the items belong to. In Warframe's trading system, no tax is deducted from the platinum earned and credit costs are negligible. Steam Market's tax acts as a deterrent for reselling items because it creates a threshold you have to sell for in order to make profit, where reselling an item for the same price you obtained it for only results in a loss. If you want a market in Warframe that works like Steam's, then at the very minimum you would need to have a platinum tax.
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4 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

You can't compare Valve's in game economies with Warframe's because of the following reasons:

  1. In order to use the Steam Market, a Steam user has to have made at least one purchase of $5 or more on their Steam account. This means that the Steam Market is inaccessible to pure free-to-play players. Warframe's trading is available to all players, not just the paying ones, allowing pure free-to-play players to earn premium currency and avoiding the "pay-to-win" scenario that happens to many free-to-play games. If Warframe were to implement the same requirements as Steam Market, then Warframe would essentially be pay-to-play.
  2. Steam Market has a 5~10% tax on items, depending on the game the items belong to. In Warframe's trading system, no tax is deducted from the platinum earned and credit costs are negligible. Steam Market's tax acts as a deterrent for reselling items because it creates a threshold you have to sell for in order to make profit, where reselling an item for the same price you obtained it for only results in a loss. If you want a market in Warframe that works like Steam's, then at the very minimum you would need to have a platinum tax.

 

ah but you see that is something i addressed a small paltnum tax of 1/30 would give DE back some of its platnum. not nearly as much as a riven mod slot, buying that last mutagen mass, or a full warframe. but with enough buying and selling we could curb the rapid expansion of platinum that is the market. it is in part one of the reasons things were allowed to get so high is that the minority of the active market who buy or sell have much more platinum than others. the raw costs for some simple staple items like the syndicate weapons cost about 10$ without a plat cost reducer. which means that eventualy the bar to entry will get so high no one but the people already trading will be able to afford to trade. also if any of them  lose enough plat that they cant trade properly then they either buy a crap ton more plat (DE's preference) or they stop trading. what do yo think is more likely? would you spend a bunch of real money, farm to get that 1 item you can sell for a quick buck, or stop trading? it is all up to the person doing so.

also true you would not want to limit the straight cost like steam having a minimum bought platnum cost to participate in a new trade system. buy by limiting it to your mastery ranking and credit ammount you prevent alot of abuse from things like bots. to my knowledge you cant get a bot to run missions yet. they would have to be boosted by mastery ranking which is limited to farming resources to make items to increase the ranking or buying weapons/frames with plat. then there is the cost of transfering plat fromt the bot to the controler which costs more plat.

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2 hours ago, Ninjacalypse said:

Oh my gosh! You got me! Please. The CURRENT SYSTEM is ALREADY gamed.

People buy parts, they make sets, they mark them up 300% and try to pawn them off on new players who don't know better.

@ChuckMaverick claims that if there was an in-game auction house everything would be UNDERsold not oversold.

There will always be market fluctuation but if people had a rough baseline for item values, it would be a lot harder for all of the tradesharks to scam newbs...like the "generous" individual that tried to sell me a Nekros Prime set for the low, low price of 320 plat and told me it was the lowest price I would get anywhere and he was doing me a favor. Can you believe...I was able to buy a Nekros Prime set for under 100 plat? Not from him obviously.

Currently, people make fake buy and sell listings on warframe.market because you can list anything for any price. They do this to drive prices up and down on specific items.

If there was an in-game automated auction house, if you posted a buy listing, you would need to put the platinum and credit tax in escrow. If you put up a sell listing, you would need to put the item and your credit tax in escrow. An equal amount of daily trades would also be held in escrow. This would prevent the sort of market exploitation that ALREADY occurs without regulation.

So please...do tell about how people *WOULD* game the system...when they already do it on a regular basis.

Do you, or do you not admit that the auction system could be gamed?

Or are you saying that underselling would happen?

 

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Just now, Rakawan said:

Do you, or do you not admit that the auction system could be gamed?

Or are you saying that underselling would happen?

 

Underselling, overselling and "gaming the system" ALREADY happens without an auction system. Trading chat, the bazaar and Warframe.market is completely unregulated. If DE implemented an in-game auction system they could regulate and restrict it to prevent the fake buy/sell listings that already occur on warframe.market. An in-game auction system would mean everyone could see competitive prices for items at a glance, meaning people trying to sell items for 300% more than they're worth would probably be out of business.

Or are you saying that it would be impossible for DE to regulate their own auction system?

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1 hour ago, Ninjacalypse said:

Underselling, overselling and "gaming the system" ALREADY happens without an auction system. Trading chat, the bazaar and Warframe.market is completely unregulated. If DE implemented an in-game auction system they could regulate and restrict it to prevent the fake buy/sell listings that already occur on warframe.market. An in-game auction system would mean everyone could see competitive prices for items at a glance, meaning people trying to sell items for 300% more than they're worth would probably be out of business.

Or are you saying that it would be impossible for DE to regulate their own auction system?

Please stop avoiding the question.

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5 minutes ago, Rakawan said:

Please stop avoiding the question.

Then you are experiencing a failure to read.

Underselling, overselling and "gaming the system" ALREADY happens without an auction system. Trading chat, the bazaar and Warframe.market is completely unregulated.

Since the trading system is ALREADY gamed then by your implied "logic" there should be no in-game trading system at all.

Or to put in your words...are you denying that the trading system is already "gamed?"

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5 minutes ago, Rakawan said:

Please stop avoiding the question.

fine ill answer your damn question. yes an auction house could be gamed. now answer this one what proof do you have that an auction house for certain would be gamed worse than what we have now due to the fact it is extreemly exploited.

the current major flaws we have in the piece of crap trade system are

  • lack of visibility for pricing, supply, and demand.
  • 3 party pricing tool that has many listings that are for show only to drive up price even when the person has no product or intention of selling.
  • high cost of entry for new or down on their plat traders.
  • extreemly inefficient trade chat that has a limited number of lines before it starts to delete the old as new comes and has a large influx of new WTB, WTT, WTS coming in even on low turnout hours.
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1 hour ago, Ninjacalypse said:

Then you are experiencing a failure to read.

Underselling, overselling and "gaming the system" ALREADY happens without an auction system. Trading chat, the bazaar and Warframe.market is completely unregulated.

Since the trading system is ALREADY gamed then by your implied "logic" there should be no in-game trading system at all.

Or to put in your words...are you denying that the trading system is already "gamed?"

You refusal to answer the question and your treatment of any who disagree is clear.

My work here is done.

Thank you.

Edited by Rakawan
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1 minute ago, Artorius-Alter said:

Literally, the only thing I want, is filtering WTS, WTB and WTT/WTTF, that would already help a lot.

this. I always find the ones who can't tell whether I'm buying or selling, even though I know exactly what I'm typing.

and an auction house won't happen, De even said this themselves. wouldn't hurt to have a pinned thread explaining why though.

 

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1 hour ago, Ninjacalypse said:

The trading system is ALREADY gamed. Your refusal to acknowledge that clearly shows that you're just trolling.

while it may already be, its an issue of scale. currently less than 100% of the warframe population uses trade chat or warframe.market and even less use warframe.market. essentially you're flipping from having at best guesstimate 50% of the community using trade chat to 100% using auction.

so while people are already overselling and undercutting, it mostly disappears as soon as they log off. this means the damage they may do to the price of certain items usually disappears shortly after since prices arent directly out in the open at all times.

with an auction house, this is quite the opposite. and this is because listings can and will be up for a certain amount of time if not indefinitely. this means if i list for 5 plat and someone else is in a hurry to sell, they will either mark down to 4 plat or mark at 5 plat to aim for that sale after mine. and assuming these arent selling within 5 minutes, this can more drastically affect the price than some joe bloe who undercut some guy in trade chat.

and the same goes for overinflated prices too.

 

and as to "proof" it really sounds like nothing aside DE literally throwing it into the game for a week as a trial run would convince you it isnt a bad idea.

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6 hours ago, Ninjacalypse said:

Are you capable of intelligent discussion or only communicating with gifs? Tell me where I can sell Frost Prime set for cash. Tell me where I can take the platinum I have in-game right now and get cash for it.

It's hard to to reason with someone as blind as you. So why should I even try? Rad your other comments to other players. You are just whiteknighting for this with everything you got despise everything others tell you. Go live the dream.

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1 minute ago, Askell91 said:

It's hard to to reason with someone as blind as you. So why should I even try? Rad your other comments to other players. You are just whiteknighting for this with everything you got despise everything others tell you. Go live the dream.

Okay, so not only do you do gifs but childish insults as well. So let's see...unless I agree with you I'm "whiteknighting", huh?

People already undersell and oversell. People already manipulate the market and game the system. If DE created their own auction system, they could regulate it. They could put limits and restrictions on it. And I never said anything about removing daily trading limits so there would still be limits.

You've responded multiple times already with cute little animated pictures instead of contributing to the discussion. If I'm "whiteknighting" then you're just trolling. But if you go back to the first page, you can already see that I told the OP this suggestion would get a lot of hate with the exact same unfounded excuses I said people would use.

There are countless MMOs where you can farm to your heart's content all day long, sun up to sun down that also have tradable premium currency and they have auction systems and they haven't all been somehow, mysteriously destroyed by offering basic, automated and convenient trading functionality.

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It will lower the prices, but it will allow the itens to move faster, this can be good for DE since it wil make easier to buy and sell stuff, people will put platin game to not only buy the things in the market, but also the thing in the auction house, not to mention there are people buying and selling stuff at ridiculous prices, and this would help new players a lot, and I ve seen auction houses doing wounders in other games. 

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12 minutes ago, Ninjacalypse said:

There are countless MMOs where you can farm to your heart's content all day long, sun up to sun down that also have tradable premium currency and they have auction systems and they haven't all been somehow, mysteriously destroyed by offering basic, automated and convenient trading functionality.

The only MMO that I can think of that allows trading of premium currency through an automated auction house type system where the economy isn't horribly broken is EVE Online, and CCP have to employ a full-time economist to make sure it stays that way.

What other examples do you have?

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