Auction House is really needed.

[Ninjacalypse]

9 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Neither did I, not sure why you mentioned this.

I'm saying that the effort of manually completing trades has an effect on prices, are you disputing that?

Supply is "soft" limited by the fact that a player must be online. It is not hard limited. Daily trade limits do and would still impose limits on supply.

I have never charged more or less for a trade because it was "manual." Do you have evidence that automatic trading would cause the market to crash? Or just rhetoric?

Because we have real life, real world markets that also already work via automatic trading. In fact, they thrive on it.

[John89brensen]

2 minutes ago, Ninjacalypse said:

Do you have evidence that automatic trading would cause the market to crash?

Perfect information of the market would force prices to drop until they reach a point of equilibrium. No one would sell ever an Ember Prime at 1200 plat if there is 10 other people selling  at 500.

5 minutes ago, Ninjacalypse said:

Supply is "soft" limited by the fact that a player must be online. It is not hard limited. Daily trade limits do and would still impose limits on supply.

This is not entirely true, since players with the capacity to farm the most trade goods tend to have higher MR, thus higher trade limit. Im MR22 and i still havent used all my trades in a single day, but im sure there are high MR players that have used all available trades.

Do keep in mind that im not arguing against an auction house, im just providing valid counter arguments.

[ChuckMaverick]

6 minutes ago, Ninjacalypse said:

Supply is "soft" limited by the fact that a player must be online. It is not hard limited. Daily trade limits do and would still impose limits on supply.

I have never charged more or less for a trade because it was "manual." Do you have evidence that automatic trading would cause the market to crash? Or just rhetoric?

Because we have real life, real world markets that also already work via automatic trading. In fact, they thrive on it.

Supply is also currently "soft" limited by the fact that only a small percentage of the Warframe population are prepared to engage in manual trading, many more would trade if it were automated.

Prices would crash due to simple supply and demand, supply would rise further than demand because you can farm multiple copies of an item, but you (generally) only use one.

In real life you can't create an infinite amount of items via space magic by running more missions.

[John89brensen]

5 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Prices would crash due to simple supply and demand, supply would rise further than demand because you can farm multiple copies of an item, but you (generally) only use one.

Not only would supply increase, due to the simplicity of an auction house, but having access to all prices for the same item would force them to reach a balance. A drop in prices would be inevitable if an auction house is implemented.

There would still be plenty of items that would retain a high market value, like vaulted items or old arcane helmets, timed exclusives like Primed mods, or "hard" to get items like arcanes.

Edited December 30, 2016 by John89brensen

[Rakawan]

This has been suggested multiple times and the community has made it clear that not only is an auction house a bad idea for warframe, but that a rework of trade would be far better to address the current issues. 

 

[Heckzu]

1 hour ago, Ninjacalypse said:

Actually, I've heard both. It will both deflate and inflate the economy.

You don't like the idea because it hurt people who make money by trading. How is that?

We already have warframe.market. Same thing. All of things that people claim would cause the economy to crash...are ALREADY done on warframe.market.

I think people don't like the idea, because they don't want to compete in a fair economy.

Most items would deflate due to a huge, visible, supply with a lack of demand, while items such as Arcane Helmets or limited-time-only mods such as Primed Chamber or Maiming Strike can fluctuate unpredictably, but will probably end up inflating when their supply becomes low. Currently, there's no way to tell the size of an item's supply, but with an in-game auction house, that information becomes visible.

Warframe is a free to play game. If you want weapon / warframe slots or cosmetics, you need platinum. If an auction house is implemented and the value of most items, save for the rare ones, plummet, then players who don't buy platinum will be forced to trade their items for next to nothing as they compete with millions of others trying to sell the same farmable items. If the price of items in the market stay the same, but players earn less plat through trade, then it becomes a lot harder to buy anything from the market, including potatoes and slots, and it makes the game feel like pay-to-win as players who buy platinum would have access to a larger arsenal and more fully modded weapons than a non-paying player.

Warframe.market isn't the same thing. Warframe.market is a posting board, with no actual ability to allow purchasing. It's essentially just a more organized form of the trade subforum that we have on forum.warframe.com. 

A "fair economy" is a paradox and cannot exist because a "fair economy" can directly result in an "unfair economy". Case in point: Laissez faire economy (free economy, considered the fairest type of economy) allowed Rockefeller to build a monopoly in oil using both vertical and horizontal integration, allowing his company, Standard Oil Company, to control oil prices and drive competitors out of business, nullifying the law of supply and demand, thus utilizing a "fair" economy to create an unfair economy.

Many other games have wealthy merchants who monopolize items or significantly influence game economies, and many players wish to avoid that happening in Warframe.

[(PSN)Puckish_Rogue125]

3 hours ago, death390 said:

has anyone tried to go through the hassle of trade chat lately? during low access times the trade chat moves about 6 posts in 20 seconds but during high access times the entire screen length can pass in an instant. (when i am hard trading i maximize the height of the trade chat) it is almost impossible to get trades done or even see if someone has what your looking for. why has DE not made an auction house yet? hell it would help them return plat back to themselves if they took 1 in 30 plat (minimum 1)  from an auction house sale they would make plat more valuable since there would be less in circulation. 1/30 is not a bad set (2/45, 3/75, ect) it would make low trades still worth it and massive plat trades they would get more plat back. hell make it so that we have to pay a length of time based credit cost to put it up (200 credits/ hour we have an item up would be decent and give us another thing to use credits on).

then lets look at what the players (all of us) get, an easy to see and search for list of what we want to buy or sell, a competitive market, and the big one WE DONT HAVE TO BE sitting in the liset or bazaar to sell/ buy things! think about it we can literaly set things in the auction house and go play the game getting more things to use/ put in auction house. want a riven mod? look theres 50 set to expire in the next hour. need that nekros prime bluprint to complete your set? done. hell people could even setup 5 item bundles, want a full carrier prime set? there you go.

 

it would be so simple too. you would have your major categories. Prime, mods, non-prime parts and weapons, relics, bundles. then in each list have a the standard sub-types.

Prime

• Bluprints
• Parts
• Warframes

Mods

• Warframe
• primary
• secondary
• melee
• archwing
• companion
• riven-unopend
• riven-opened

Non-prime Parts and weapons

• Prisma
• Vandal
• Wraith
• Karak
• Warframe

Relics

• Lith
• Meso
• Neo
• Axi

Bundles

 

hell put in a search bar, straight buyout option (sell NOW at THIS price), sort by cost/ time/ ect. and your done. hell we even have a great place to drop it at, stick it in maroo's bazaar and have darvo run it. if you wanted you could make it use Trades/day as the limit to how many sets of items you have in the Auction house (10 trades? use 8 in auction house still have 2/day to trade from trade chat)

 

TL:DR

Put Auction house in maroo's bazaar to help everyone buy and sell items, helps DE get plat back, helps players buy what they are looking for, and gets everyone to play the game instead of sitting in the liset for hours for a couple trades. limit by trades/day, DE gets back like 1/30 plat, cost credits to put things in AH based on time.

Did you know, and this is a crazy thought i know, you control the speed at which chat passed. You wont muss anything, tc is literally the same 100 ppl spamming the same wtb/wts as often as they can no matter the time of day. If you arent having luck in your region, there are other regions. There is already no reason to sit in liset staring at tc, post message, copy, go on mission. Back to liset, paste message, go on mission, repeat until you make the sale/purchase. Paying a premium currency in order to trade for that premium currency is also quite the terrible idea. A comparison would be those ATMs which charge you money in order to take your money out. They are S#&$ty, no one likes them and the only ppl that use them are drunk, stupid or those whos bank reimburses those charges. 

[death390]

Part of the point is the fact that yes supply would increase but demand for all items would increase as well due to the visibility of said items. Additionally we currently have a massive inflation issue when syndicate weapons were introduced they were about 25-35 plat but nowadays are 50-70 plat a 100% increase. if nothing is done to curb inflation we will see few new people joining into the economy due to the price of entry. Yes extremely limited items may rise slightly in price but that is where the valuation of goods by the consumer comes into play. Some people are willing to buy maiming strike for 300p others won't. 

 

To to top that off yes you can "pause" the trade window but it has a finite number of lines it seems since it starts kicking lines after so many. 

[SeaUrchins]

Basicly you are suggesting DE shooting themselves in the foot and telling them it is for their own good.

Who would buy plat if AH made it easy to earn?

Edited December 30, 2016 by SeaUrchins

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I agree That something should be done about the trade system.  However a traditional thing like you suggest in my opinion would be more harmful than helpful.  Firstly it will give people who have excess amounts of plat the ability to go in and clean out all the parts and then inflate the prices of said items even more.  Yes.  this does happen right now.  But because trades need to be done manually and you can't always be observing the trade chat it's unlikely someone will claim all the items.  Second because everyone can see the prices of the items prices can go down.  which would be good for some things that often get hyper inflated.  But it would result in less plat circulating overall and less plat purchases for DE.  While it might sound scummy to take advantage of the systems of present it actually keeps the economy flowing pretty evenly.  Most people can tell when something is over inflated anyway and personally I use warframe.market to price check or get an idea on what price I want to give.

I originally suggested that we allow 2 boxes to be filled out as filters for the chat.  first would have "wts, wtb, wtt" and the second would be the name of what you are looking for.  This could then either only show you the posts that had this criteria in it.  or it could simply highlight the posts for you making it an easier read.  I also like the idea of the bazzar because it's similar to having your own shop.  Problem is there isn't anyway to advertise yourself.  people have to be lucky to be in your instance to see you.

I think it would be cool if DE allowed people to set up clan shops.  Members of the clan could put items in the shop and dictate what price it goes for.  this could include research items as well.  As for advertising well...I thought about having you stand in any relay with the ability to promote yourself.  if someone wanted to buy from your clan store all you'd have to do is invite them to your party and take them in.  OR you could have DE setup an AI who stands in a relay for you.  You'd be able to give the AI a personal message.  Which is where you'd advertise the items you think could attract other players.  though in order to have this AI someone from the clan would have to pay money or plat in order to have it up.  The price would vary depending on how long you'd like to have some guy sitting in the relay for you.

I know my idea sounds very rough.  I do want some kind of mix of the bazzar and personal shops.  but I think at the very least my changes to trade chat would be really helpful and probably the least damaging.

[Voltage]

4 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Personally, I hate "PM offer" and won't deal with anyone who isn't prepared to name a price.

I bet if you'd offered a reasonable price instead, you could have bought that part several times over.

And it's not just me, many people have stated it in multiple threads. "PM offer" costs you sales/purchases.

I have been using "PM Offer" for 2 years now. Nothing wrong in asking what the seller wants. Works now to this day. Patience is the key to trade chat

[Tonkatunk]

Y'know, i think one of the easiest fixes to the complaints about having an auction house, is just make it take one of your trades for every item LISTED and not actually sold.  Why that's such a big deal, you get like 4 items i think, that you can trade at once, at the expense of one trade, right?  Don't add an option to let an entire set to be bundled to be sold.  Just like that, there's value to farming a set of something, to sell through trade chat instead of AH.  Throw in fees and time restrictions.

 

As for how it would affect the market... lmao.  As has been said, prices will go up and down in trade chat and on items.  Auction house may influence some, especially on initial release, but overall people know the price of items they wanna sell generally.  Why?  Not because they're interested in getting things they need, but more because many of them will play the market, whether they admit it or not.  Buy an item for as cheap as possible, jack the price up whether just a bit or a lot, then resell.  Auction house will have the same issue.  If people throw things in there for low price, the merchants will come in, buy it up, and resell in trade chat or something at a higher price.  And it would be trade chat, because they'd do things like offer bundles, or take their time to sell it without any time restrictions, as well as avoiding fees.

 

It may reduce player interaction, but overall it'd help a lotta players.

[ashrah]

one guy really   badlly need plat wish to sell mod 20 plat another guy have 30 same mods post   selling mods 5p... another guy no chance to get plat

[Irn-bruman]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

The day they put an Auction House in this game is the day I uninstall the game. 

No.  We couldn't let THAT happen! 

Spoiler

4 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

An auction house might do more damage than help.

OR! Or might get aliens to land. OR! Or make my grandmother to rise up and bake me a cake. It's fun to imagine things. 

4 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

it won't help the game in the long run

Oh great  Nostradamus, i ask thee: what stocks will rise next month? PM me, i don't want to share my profit. 

4 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

Would you rather play a game with a couple of flaws, or play a dead game with what you want?

I saw a man on the street this morning. He was old, naked, and yelled at the top of his lungs: "NO AUCTION, OR WE'RE ALL BE DEAD TOMORROW". Police came, and i don't know what happened next. Did they treat you good? 

4 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

Warframe's economy right now in my experience is just fine and it works

In my experience it don't. My experience is more important. 

4 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

If there's an auction house, prices will plummet to the ground

Or rise up to the sky. Different crazies  auction conspiracy theorists have different scenarios. I heard auctions turns frogs gay. 

 

5 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

Everyone will try and sell

NO. Sweet mother Mary and Jesus Christ, no. THOSE SAVAGES! HOW COULD THEY?! 

5 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

and they'll go one lower than the lowest on the AH, and it keeps going until things are worthless.

Oh great Nostradamus, what present will i get for new year? Is it again a box of shiit... S#&$take? Is that what you call those mushrooms? 

5 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

Then, you get an economy that isn't worthwhile unless you have some high-tiered things.

And NOW Paris prime parts worth quite a fortune. And Full Trinity set. And other low cost stuff. All worth ALOT. 

You have no understanding of supply and demand concept, do you? Things that are easier to get, and been in supply for a long time, will cost lower then things that are harder to get, and\or new, the so majority wants them. Go figure, huh? You'll get it someday. 

5 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

I enjoyed this game and poured a crap ton of my time into it because of the economy, how I was able to play the game, experience everything, get hard currency without paying, it just took some work.

I woke up this morning, overslept for a bit, but my workplace don't care a bit. I took a smoke with my new vape, and realized i need a higher nikotine concentration, since i'm dropping regular cigarettes, and a vape doesn't do it for me. Love to talk about our expiriences.

I've been playing a lot more then you do. And did paid for the platinum, supporting the devs. So it's my real money in the game. Now i want easier way to spend them. 

5 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

The trade chat in my experience is not a hassle.

In my expirience highway is safe to play baseball. 

I lied. I've never played baseball in my life. IN MY LIFE. 

See? Personal expirience is negligible thing. But if you want one particular item, and no one willing to sell it is currently in the chat, they even could be online in the game, but you won't buy it. While auction lets you PLAY the game, not sit in chat for hours, god damn it, i have better things to do then CTRL+V for extended periods of time. 

5 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

and dealing with it is better than ruining it in my opinion

Yeah. Right. Let me just get my tinfoil hat and then we'll talk. 

You know why i wrote all this? Because i'm tired of "we need auction threads". We do need auction. And you not brought ANY arguments against it, besides "i'm scared of it", "it will DISTROOOY THE GAME", "It will make everything worst" bs. That's stupid. You DON'T KNOW it will. You have no PROOF, nor EDUCATED GUESS it will. You ASSUME it will based on nothing. You IMAGINE it will based on your irrational fear. How about imagine: it won't? *gasp* What a twist. 

It's like people who protested the usage of electricity. "The damn Devil will come and break your legs if you will", or some S#&$ like that. 

 

[low1991]

5 hours ago, Ninja22678 said:

An auction house might do more damage than help. Maybe it'll help you, but it won't help the game in the long run. Would you rather play a game with a couple of flaws, or play a dead game with what you want?

Warframe's economy right now in my experience is just fine and it works, it gives everyone a chance at getting plat, which is the hard currency of the game, not something a lot of games will even give you a chance at....

The only economy WF has is by low-balling. (ie, buy low, sell high), the foundation of economy. But at this stage this is't a free market, at least real-life have some sort of free market where you'r being to compare price of shop A to price of shop B. By looking at price listed, and those price of the said item remains even after you have second opinion.

But in WF, there's bargain, or hard-sales. You'r unable to compare price of a similar item between 2 or more seller, maybe you could... but hard sales will still exist. Price aren't listed down and the list of item for sales will be flooded by the over-spam of sale-list advertisement. What's more, failure to reach to a conclusion of agreement between buyer and seller results in seller/buyer blacklisting each other.

overall, how is this 'just fine and it work'?

[Irn-bruman]

1 minute ago, ashrah said:

one guy really   badlly need plat wish to sell mod 20 plat another guy have 30 same mods post   selling mods 5p... another guy no chance to get plat

Oh, i love theoretical questions. And i love and play a lot of Warframe, so i'm sure to be able answer this one. Let's see...

1st guy could... Wait. If the 5p price is low for this item, all 30, even 100 mods will fly away in no time. WF had ~ 30.000 people ONLINE (PC) 30 mins ago. Nobody would beleive that 30, 60, 100 mods will DISTROOY the market? If this mod worth something - 1st guy can easily set it for 20p, and just wait an hour or so. 

Or he could buy plat pack from devs, supporting them. 

That was easy. Do you have other questions? 

 

[Sidathe]

10 minutes ago, Irn-bruman said:

No.  We couldn't let THAT happen! 

  Reveal hidden contents

OR! Or might get aliens to land. OR! Or make my grandmother to rise up and bake me a cake. It's fun to imagine things. 

Oh great  Nostradamus, i ask thee: what stocks will rise next month? PM me, i don't want to share my profit. 

I saw a man on the street this morning. He was old, naked, and yelled at the top of his lungs: "NO AUCTION, OR WE'RE ALL BE DEAD TOMORROW". Police came, and i don't know what happened next. Did they treat you good? 

In my experience it don't. My experience is more important. 

Or rise up to the sky. Different crazies  auction conspiracy theorists have different scenarios. I heard auctions turns frogs gay. 

 

NO. Sweet mother Mary and Jesus Christ, no. THOSE SAVAGES! HOW COULD THEY?! 

Oh great Nostradamus, what present will i get for new year? Is it again a box of shiit... S#&$take? Is that what you call those mushrooms? 

And NOW Paris prime parts worth quite a fortune. And Full Trinity set. And other low cost stuff. All worth ALOT. 

You have no understanding of supply and demand concept, do you? Things that are easier to get, and been in supply for a long time, will cost lower then things that are harder to get, and\or new, the so majority wants them. Go figure, huh? You'll get it someday. 

I woke up this morning, overslept for a bit, but my workplace don't care a bit. I took a smoke with my new vape, and realized i need a higher nikotine concentration, since i'm dropping regular cigarettes, and a vape doesn't do it for me. Love to talk about our expiriences.

I've been playing a lot more then you do. And did paid for the platinum, supporting the devs. So it's my real money in the game. Now i want easier way to spend them. 

In my expirience highway is safe to play baseball. 

I lied. I've never played baseball in my life. IN MY LIFE. 

See? Personal expirience is negligible thing. But if you want one particular item, and no one willing to sell it is currently in the chat, they even could be online in the game, but you won't buy it. While auction lets you PLAY the game, not sit in chat for hours, god damn it, i have better things to do then CTRL+V for extended periods of time. 

Yeah. Right. Let me just get my tinfoil hat and then we'll talk. 

You know why i wrote all this? Because i'm tired of "we need auction threads". We do need auction. And you not brought ANY arguments against it, besides "i'm scared of it", "it will DISTROOOY THE GAME", "It will make everything worst" bs. That's stupid. You DON'T KNOW it will. You have no PROOF, nor EDUCATED GUESS it will. You ASSUME it will based on nothing. You IMAGINE it will based on your irrational fear. How about imagine: it won't? *gasp* What a twist. 

It's like people who protested the usage of electricity. "The damn Devil will come and break your legs if you will", or some S#&$ like that. 

 

If'n my experience with other MMO's carries true, an Auction House would collapse Platinum prices like a brick, what with the functionally infinite supply of items being flooded in. If a player has no need for <Blank>, they're gonna toss them onto the marketplace. I sure would. Why wouldn't I? I'll get paid eventually. So those items sit there, gather a film of moss, etc. And the price is even lower for <Blank> and I have to place it back onto the market again until I get lucky and someone buys it, or the value hits 1:1 and not 1:30 or some craziness.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Someone once told me that Vengeful Revanent was 30p.

That guy wasn't getting Vengeful Revanent for 30p.

 

[SilvaDreams]

1 minute ago, Sidathe said:

If'n my experience with other MMO's carries true, an Auction House would collapse Platinum prices like a brick, what with the functionally infinite supply of items being flooded in. If a player has no need for <Blank>, they're gonna toss them onto the marketplace. I sure would. Why wouldn't I? I'll get paid eventually. So those items sit there, gather a film of moss, etc. And the price is even lower for <Blank> and I have to place it back onto the market again until I get lucky and someone buys it, or the value hits 1:1 and not 1:30 or some craziness.

Tends to drive prices up on things too because of the bigger threat.

Bots.

[death390]

Limiting listed trades is probably the best way to go about it. 

How about a semi-automated system based like warframe.market:

1/2 trades per day for a automated sale at s listed amount. if the amount listed is met it auto sells. If buyers wish to haggle it pms the seller (if online, would need an icon to dictate is or not) saying buyer is interested in haggling for x item contact? If yes starts a pm between buyer and seller.

Hell let them put up as many items they want but only 1/2 trades per day automated. the haggle options don't list a price to avoid people trying to influence the market by posting ridiculous amounts. 

 

Buyers would go to a master list that lets them search for an item or simply view general categories like the inventory and mod upgrader. Buyout items would be listed first but a checkbox would allow haggle only or price only listings. 

The automated part of the listing makes it so the viewable price must be sold at, eliminating the straight cost inflators  some people put on warframe.market. This also allows new people to get into the market easier increasing supply AND demand. In turn creating a competitive market curbing inflation. Giving DE a 1/50 or 1/100 tax on auto sold goods would reduce total plat making it so people buy more plat overall as it is a finite buy buy able resource. 

[death390]

Don't forget that bots have a flaw for the system. One needs credits to trade plat back to owner. A bit can't run missions (I don't think). Also if automated at 1/2 me people would have to spend time to upgrade bots MR to get a decent number of trades or 300 bots of low MR. a simple fix for that is if someone is on liset for a extended period of time have them do a captcha or something.

[SilvaDreams]

1 minute ago, death390 said:

Don't forget that bots have a flaw for the system. One needs credits to trade plat back to owner. A bit can't run missions (I don't think). Also if automated at 1/2 me people would have to spend time to upgrade bots MR to get a decent number of trades or 300 bots of low MR. a simple fix for that is if someone is on liset for a extended period of time have them do a captcha or something.

Never underestimate gold botters, they are rather notorious for finding away to automate things and have crews working to feed the bots.

[Irn-bruman]

11 minutes ago, Sidathe said:

If'n my experience with other MMO's carries true, an Auction House would collapse Platinum prices like a brick, what with the functionally infinite supply of items being flooded in. If a player has no need for <Blank>, they're gonna toss them onto the marketplace. I sure would. Why wouldn't I? I'll get paid eventually. So those items sit there, gather a film of moss, etc. And the price is even lower for <Blank> and I have to place it back onto the market again until I get lucky and someone buys it, or the value hits 1:1 and not 1:30 or some craziness.

What expirience, what game are we talk about? I've never seen anything like that, and i've been playing every major MMORPG. 

You say NOW items sit there, not gathering a flm of moss? I've had full set of Frost Prime since last (not this one) Vault opening. Why i didn't sell it? Because i can't be bothered with CTRL+V for an hour dealing with: "sell it for 100" - ignore, "let's trade for (YouDon'tNeed)!" - "no", and so on.

I came to play a game, and not sit in chat. I cannot get plat PLAYING or WHILE the game. And it's not good at all. 

[SurrealEdge]

Basically, there's no solution to fixing trade chat.

Auction houses bring bots, not having one makes trading a *@##&#036;. Spamming CTRL+V or let the bots and undercutters get their sales in because it's cheap.

Or use warframe.market, but that's not solving anything.

[Sidathe]

Just now, Irn-bruman said:

What expirience, what game are we talk about? I've never seen anything like that, and i've been playing every major MMORPG. 

You say NOW items sit there, not gathering a flm of moss? I've had full set of Frost Prime since last (not this one) Vault opening. Why i didn't sell it? Because i can't be bothered with CTRL+V for an hour dealing with: "sell it for 100" - ignore, "let's trade for (YouDon'tNeed)!" - "no", and so on.

I came to play a game, and not sit in chat. I cannot get plat PLAYING or WHILE the game. And it's not good at all. 

A whole lot of Neverwinter Online, sometime around a few months ago a second-ish time. Can't say APB: Reloaded, since F*** that game. Had a pile of items pop back into my inventory since they were never sold, despite being a few gold below the lowest price at the time. Did it again then, same deal, tried screwing around with plopping higher level things in, couldn't afford the pay-in anymore, and let's face it; who's gonna buy grey when Green are the lowest being sold? Amusingly enough, the Purchasable currency was expensive as hell for a single piece.