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HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change


Ciaus
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And DE's patent blindness to the majority of the playerbase continues to wear its rose colored blinders and ignore potential problems.  Ah so refreshing in this new year.  Not. 

 

Grow a spine DE, do whats right.  Fix the cost and refund the difference to the guild vaults.  Don't be so obtuse so as to drive people away.

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7 minutes ago, Coalfax said:

And DE's patent blindness to the majority of the playerbase continues to wear its rose colored blinders and ignore potential problems.  Ah so refreshing in this new year.  Not. 

 

Grow a spine DE, do whats right.  Fix the cost and refund the difference to the guild vaults.  Don't be so obtuse so as to drive people away.

I think its a little early to say that majority of the playerbase, the vaccum charges that had like 1550 posts in the first few hours... now that was the majority.  I'm not happy about the amount myself, I dumped all my samples into the research on my PC account and some of my other clanmates did as well, I think we still need 6000 as a shadow clan.  Do I care?  Not really, its one weapon, we will get it eventually.  As long as they don't lock other research behind it I have zero issue waiting to get this one weapon.

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17 minutes ago, Coalfax said:

And DE's patent blindness to the majority of the playerbase continues to wear its rose colored blinders and ignore potential problems.  Ah so refreshing in this new year.  Not. 

 

Grow a spine DE, do whats right.  Fix the cost and refund the difference to the guild vaults.  Don't be so obtuse so as to drive people away.

Drove me away. I'm remembering what it's like to play games that actually reward time spent.

Now every time I log on and run a mission that gives me literally nothing in the way of useful rewards...I just log off and go at a game that repsectsy time.

More people should do this.

Edited by BlackCoMerc
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6 hours ago, Momaw said:

At this point, reducing the cost significantly on the Hema would be a slap in the face to everybody that just buckled down and Got It Done.

NOT reducing it would be a slap in the face to the entire community, as well as their own supposed business model. 

 

6 hours ago, Momaw said:

Having researched the Hema is kind of a badge of honor  so if they did reduce the cost significantly then there needs to be something you can show off. I don't want the materials back because there's nothing worthwhile to use them on, and I don't want a clan trophy because nobody will ever see it or care about it. Maybe a retextured version of an Infested cosmetic?

That would also be fine. 
I would totally be onboard with every member of a clan that both completed the research before cost changes and themselves contributed any number of samples getting a completely exclusive cosmetic. I'll add that as an idea to the OP. 
It would show DE is willing to put in effort to rectify the situation instead of a quick fix to a terrible decision. 

 

6 hours ago, Momaw said:

Hundred samples per hour per player.

That's 50 hours of farming for me. 
50. 
Not really happening. 

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this response is nothing short of preposterous. they know it. we know it. what a charade.

NOW suddenly DE forget about their own EULA? mhm, yeah... right. but oh noes, we gotta think about those 1% of all clans who actually subjected themselves to this absurd chore.

he is quite literally calling the herma costs a mistake himself.

mistakes are here to be fixed. quit shamelessly lying to your customers faces and think of something...

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I do agree with increasing the research costs somewhat, or even significantly. Research costs for all but the Hema are a formality for long-term players. However, the way that the costs for the Hema were calculated, it required multiple hours of intensive effort on the part of every single clan member, which forgets that:

1) Not every clan member is active.

2) Not every clan member can invest two hours.

3) Not every clan member will be interested in that weapon.

4) Not every clan member may have access to the farming locations.

Tip for next time, DE: Set yourself a goal of what you want from every individual clan member, and then multiply it by three, not ten. 1500 mutagen samples would've been a challenge, but reasonable. 5000 is beyond almost all clans' budgets.

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Clans should work together.

With peer to peer connections in MP.

With no missions or events for Clans.

In a game where trolling on Relic missions is allowed.

In a game where playing MP now places large pink warts on your frame. Permanently. Because apparently the one person in favor of this voted during lunch.

At every turn the discouraged MP. But clans should work together...

Edited by BlackCoMerc
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This is absolutly poor!

No company can survive against theit customers. From this moment we - the players - are not partners anymore, we are simple cash cows.

DE, you lost a lot of my respect. I admired you as a "good" company which really cares about players opinion. This has changed now...

Edited by Doc-Orange
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They could appease both sides by adding more ways to farm samples, and upping the drop rate so it's not an absurd amount of runs to contribute a fraction of the cost.

They never should've done this with a resource that's only farmable in one location with one specific mission type - the only location in game that doesn't have matchmaking, and no one runs. They need to fix it, at the very least with widening the drop locations for mutagen samples and greatly increasing their drop rate. This is simply not feasible for a Moon Clan to get in a reasonable amount of time - it's absurd to expect that all 1000 members are not only going to be active, but also be able to farm 500 samples each. That's the best case scenario, and I would be astonished if there's a single Moon clan that met those requirements. No guild has 100% of their members as active in any game, but in a clan as big as that it's even harder to keep them active.

Not to mention that their "easy farming" calculation revolves around the maximum amount of drop boost you can possibly get in the game, which simply isn't realistic and shouldn't be used as a baseline for how much of a resource should be used to make something.

 

All I know is, they better do more than nothing. Leaving it as-is will only piss people off, and as others mentioned it does set a precedent if they try to pull this again. They need to fix the situation very soon and stop staying silent on it.

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To Steves argument. A few days ago they nerfed Riven mods which where bought by players with platinum (aka real money) without a problem or shame.

DE, when you need money and bring soft Pay2Win then say it open. Then we can decide to stay or leave - but don't come with arguments which are so openly wrong!

Edited by Doc-Orange
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14 minutes ago, Doc-Orange said:

To Steves argument. A few days ago they nerfed Riven mods which where bought buy players with platinum (aka real money) witj out a problem or shame.

DE, when you need money and bring soft Pay2Win then say it open. Then we can decide to stay or leave - but don't come with arguments which are so openly wrong!

Absolutely right! this right here shows the real disrespect by DE in some of their latest decisions, as i can only speak for myself i am very frustrated about this situation.

These aren´t mistakes, they are intended, someone is making the call on this kind of grind and its ruining my fun with waframe, as of now my support is on hold, i just hope DE can see this is just wrong for the future of warframe.

 

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Clans who already finished it get a golden drop rate/resource booster statue.

Also to all those who say "but you stockpile resources": Why do I get punished for playing the game? Why do I get punished for not stockpiling ludicrous amounts of everything by running nekros/kavat/booster everywhere all the time?

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13 hours ago, Hemmo67 said:

again with this?

If DE stopped closing threads that are highly critical of its decision for the insane Mutagen Sample requirement, then there wouldn't be as many of these threads.

The facts is that the Hema research requirement is still a massive problem that is creating toxicity within clans and gradually turning Waframe from F2P to P2P. To argue otherwise would imply ignorance or selfishness against the majority of players who have extremely clearly demonstrated their disgust for DE's decision here.

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2 hours ago, Cat__Nap said:

They could appease both sides by adding more ways to farm samples, and upping the drop rate so it's not an absurd amount of runs to contribute a fraction of the cost.

 

but that would be slap in the face of those who grinded it already :'( think before you speak such foolishness again please...

 

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13 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

but that would be slap in the face of those who grinded it already :'( think before you speak such foolishness again please...

 

You mean a slap in the face like....

.... nerfing Frames after formaing them several times?

.... nerfing weapons after buying it from the market with platinum?

.... changing hard earned Void keys to something where I cannot farm upcoming Frames with because existing relics contains no new parts?

... nerfing Riven mods which are bought with platinum?

....etc.

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23 minutes ago, Doc-Orange said:

You mean a slap in the face like....

.... nerfing Frames after formaing them several times?

.... nerfing weapons after buying it from the market with platinum?

.... changing hard earned Void keys to something where I cannot farm upcoming Frames with because existing relics contains no new parts?

... nerfing Riven mods which are bought with platinum?

....etc.

relax it was a joke

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13 hours ago, Momaw said:

 

So, this is something I have a problem with. Warframe players are very very used to "pre grind". They put in time playing, they get all this material and resources laying around, and then when something new comes out they expect to have enough to just get it instantly. What is so bad about having to earn things AFTER they arrive instead of BEFORE? Especially here where is no time limit. Even if the next infested clan tech needs the Hema (which I doubt), how many months away is that?  If people put half as much effort into just getting the mutagen samples as they do into complaining about the mutagen samples, they'll have the gun researched in plenty of time before anything that requires it arrives (which, again, I doubt).

Which isn't to say that I think this situation is perfect. The core problem is that DE made a very reasonable assumption about how much the gun should cost based on how much of its resource people had available, but they didn't consider how that would scale to clans. Clans that are often full of "dead wood", old players that aren't actually contributing anything, or clans that are simply not full for their tier size.  500 mutagen samples per head for an active, full clan is very reasonable. But if your clan is only half full then suddenly the cost is 1000 per head, and if only half your people are active players, well.

The Hema's raises questions about the very concept of clan research and how much participation and activity should be ASSUMED to be taking place.

This this a million times this. Everyone is freaking out because they can't pay this cost right now and they are running the math and thinking about how many runs it will take etc. You do not need to get the dang thing right meow. You don't need to grind it all in one mission or in one night or in 1 week. Hell it could take months. I know it took months for me to get all the Equinox drops and the Oxium and Nitain for Vauban Prime. Its okay for things to actually take time to achieve. The grind is always frustrating when you go in with the mindset of needing to finish it immediately. If you know you need mutagen samples, spend more time in the derelict. Bring out your Nekros for an ODS. He is really good at Survival. You can also get Neo and Axi relics there. Try an ODD where you can get Lith and Meso Relics as well as Mutalist Alad V coordinates if you still need them or would like to sell them to someone who does. Not to mention both the Derelict Survival and Defense give out decent amounts of Endo. Mix it up with some Derelict Vault runs and get some super OP Rare Mods. There are lots of great reasons to be in the derelict and while you're there you can get some mutagen samples over time. You do not have to do it all at once and the mutagen samples doesn't even have to be the only thing you focus on. Play the game. Have fun.

Edited by Fifilona
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9 minutes ago, Fifilona said:

This this a million times this. Everyone is freaking out because they can't pay this cost right now and they are running the math and thinking about how many runs it will take etc. You do not need to get the dang thing right meow. You don't need to grind it all in one mission or in one night or in 1 week. Hell it could take months.

This argument holds no water here because players who have accumulated Mutagen Samples over years still do not have enough to research the weapon. You want to grind several years for one weapon? Be my guest. Go on and encourage massive grindwalls which have been the number one story of 2016.

The reality that we have to suddenly play Speed Nova + Hydroid + Nekros + booster every time to farm a weapon is not representative of this game.

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1 minute ago, Fifilona said:

You don't need to grind it all in one mission or in one night or in 1 week. Hell it could take months.

Without focused farming in a farming squad it will not take months. It will take years.

I got 3.3k mutagen samples over 1800 hours of playing. I would not be able to fund a one man clan research even if I played for a year. Because normal play does not include derelict anymore. And on Eris mutagen samples drop about as often as neurodes. 1 per 20 waves of defense.

All the people who tell a tale of ''I funded Hema by myself and never farmed'' are lying. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. They most likely had those samples from the time when prime parts dropped from derelicts. They more then likely went there with a Nekros quite often to get orokin cells and neurodes. But it was so long ago, and the demand on those samples was so low, they probably just forgot. Because they never farmed mutagen samples. They farmed orokin cells, neurodes and even nano spores.

8 minutes ago, Fifilona said:

Play the game. Have fun.

Did that. Then relics happened.

And when I almost got over it? A plague was introduced. Along with 5k mutagen samples and ''a Metal Auger on rotation C''.

 

Why do people still defend this insane research cost? Don't they see the trend? Don't they understand that ''you have too much cryotic, have a 30k Sibear'', ''you have too much oxium, have a 14k Vauban'', ''you have too much mutagen samples, have 5k Hema'' will logically continue with: ''you farmed 2 million nano spores while trying to fund Hema?, have an infested sniper rifle that needs Hema and 1 billion nano spores for a ghost clan''?

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I have a solo clan, and and have been playing since Closed beta, I was close enough on samples that I was able farm it in a few days with boosters.   That said, concern over clans that farmed it are nonsense and a pretty feeble excuse to not fix what is obviously an error in resource requirements.

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3 minutes ago, WolfTitan said:

This argument holds no water here because players who have accumulated Mutagen Samples over years still do not have enough to research the weapon. You want to grind several years for one weapon? Be my guest. Go on and encourage massive grindwalls which have been the number one story of 2016.

The reality that we have to suddenly play Speed Nova + Hydroid + Nekros + booster every time to farm a weapon is not representative of this game.

I am one of those players. But the thing is we just never needed this specific resource and it doesn't drop from the most common farming locations like Hieracon etc so we just didn't acquire as much of it as other things. But that doesn't mean you can not go out and get it now. Many people did.

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