HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

Anyone who farms kuva ingame currently without a booster is a lunatic. Of course neither requires you to have boosters but they sure speed it up.

I don't farm kuva. Whenever I'm online, I do the flood if it's on a nice mission (read: exterminate, spy, capture, sabotage), but otherwise I don't bother. This more than keeps up with my riven income.

[NekroArts]

3 hours ago, John89brensen said:

Yeah, my clan wont be researching it as well. I can live without using the Hema, but the problem is what happens if DE decides that from now on Hema is a mandatory step for research.

The day this happen someone in a future Devstream, after it, will say something along the lines: "Enough time has pass since Hema's release; a good amount of clans should have completed the research by now, if not then you're being lazy. We've already stated that we are not decreasing the cost nor increasing the Mutagen Samples drop rate".

[Gr33hn]

2 hours ago, ninjadeboxers said:

the only thing that rains there are my salty tears...

Not only yours, I havent been on a single farming run where someone didnt express sarcasm over the "its raining mutagen" statement.

[Flirk2]

9 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

The day this happen someone in a future Devstream, after it, will say something along the lines: "Enough time has pass since Hema's release; a good amount of clans should have completed the research by now, if not then you're being lazy. We've already stated that we are not decreasing the cost nor increasing the Mutagen Samples drop rate".

Nah. They will probably never say players are lazy. It would be bad form. More like:

''We understand that 10^8 nanospores, 1000 argon crystals, 500 nitain and 10k orokin cells per person in the clan was somewhat of a sticker shock. But at this point half the clans did the research on Hema already. We can't slap them all in the face and lower the costs on the new infested thrown primary. It's a powerful weapon, that does the 1.5 times more toxin damage than Javlok does heat, gives you health on critical headshots and takes half your total health when you throw it! Nano spores drop all over the system. It positively rains argon crystals in the Void, it'll take just a few runs, Nekros will help (though we recently lowered Desecrate chance to 30%, he's still very useful). Since we put those dedicated resource containers on the maps orokin cells are very common, you might even have enough already lying around, and we have 3 alerts for nitain every day. Plus, there is a chance to get some from caches on the ship reactor sabotage missions. Clan research is supposed to be a stretch goal that everyone in the clan can participate in. We don't want veterans to be able to fund research day one, do we? Oh, and you might want to bring Secura Lecta (that we recently fixed to just double the credit pick ups) to fulfill that 100 million credits per person in the clan requirement. ''

I know I missed something there... But I can't see what exactly at the moment. Ah well, I'm sure they'll come up with a new gem like that ''rains mutagen'' and ''few runs in Derelict''.

[DeadScream]

I'd like DE to just stop their dev activity and try to play they game for a week or two... Answers like "heh you have Nekros and speed Nova" should never exist, seriously.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

Can we all just get over this please? Go do some fissures, sell some prime parts and just get the gun for plat already. It's not actually worth it, but I know some of you will kill for mastery lol

[plexus_brachialis]

1 hour ago, Flirk2 said:

I know I missed something there... But I can't see what exactly at the moment. Ah well, I'm sure they'll come up with a new gem like that ''rains mutagen'' and ''few runs in Derelict''.

you forgot a new resource that was introduced in the meantime

[Phatose]

8 minutes ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

Can we all just get over this please? Go do some fissures, sell some prime parts and just get the gun for plat already. It's not actually worth it, but I know some of you will kill for mastery lol

I don't believe you can cancel clan research once it's started, meaning any clan which started the research will not be able to research anything else in the infested lab until it's done.  Plat can't get around that.

[(XBOX)WhippingxBoy]

DE want us to have ghost clans with 100 members.

You then rotate the 10 ( allowed ) members while they ( the 100 ) farm for the resources and you get them much faster.

 

[kaliazane]

You figured them out !

[(XBOX)WhippingxBoy]

Just using common sense.

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

Yea it makes it a bit annoying, but that's how we're doing it. The only issue is the 60 days cool-down to upgrade back to shadow. We wouldn't had to do this if the requirements were based on number of members instead of clan tier, but I guess that will not happen any time soon. 

Edited January 26, 2017 by (PS4)Regiampiero

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

Tearing off a piece of your shirt, and use it to cover your wounds do not prevent you from getting wounded in the first place. You only end up with a half infected wound and a ruined shirt.

_BAND-AID

Edited January 26, 2017 by (PS4)A_SimpleName

[METAL_BAWKSES]

5 hours ago, KnaveOfSwords said:

Assuming a clan at maximum capacity for its tier (unlikely), and with all members of said clan being active (almost certainly not the case), the Hema requires 500 mutagen samples per person.

That comes out to an average of 7.4 hours per person spent on ODS just to get Hema.  And that's a best case scenario.

If we instead assume a clan midway between the cap of its current tier and that of the prior tier, and that roughly half of those are active, that changes to roughly 22.5 hours per person.  Drop our assumed activity rate to just  10% of the members being active, and it's now around 112 hours per person - or put another way, nearly 3 weeks of full time employment.

Pretty much this. But at the end of the day what irks me is the fact that DE admitted they made a mistake, said they where looking at ways to correct the mistake and now outright refuse to correct the mistake they fully admitted to. It's like I said in previous threads: A mistake is only an issue when you refuse to correct it. Once you refuse to fix it, it becomes an issue. I'm always willing to give anyone a chance to correct a mistake. But if you refuse to even make an effort to fix it, it becomes a strike against you. 

[KIREEK]

It's cool to see many players wanting the weapon, but i am pretty sure hardly anyone will use it after researched and leveled up

[John89brensen]

13 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

It's cool to see many players wanting the weapon, but i am pretty sure hardly anyone will use it after researched and leveled up

Yeah if i ever get the Hema, i probably wont potato it, and once its maxed i'll forget it (except for the controversy it created). What we want are reasonable research costs, not 1000% increase in prices for a weapon with a gimmick, and DE being upfront and honest about this, because claiming there is an abundance of MS in derelict is a falsehood.

[bl4ckhunter]

Starting by saying that i'm not that interested in the hema myself i've been considering another approach to the issue and that i'm only posting this out of curiosity since thinking about it it's really weird that it's not been thrown around alread, now i'm not really going to give it a try since is really too much effort for something i don't really care about (and i'm pretty sure my organization skills aren't up to it) but as far as i can tell it sounds feasible and if you're in the leadeship of a moon/mountain/large alliance clan you shouldn't really have much trouble with the organizative aspects of this.  

Now i can safely say that 500/150k of mutagen samples simply aren't happening unless you've part of a really REALLY hardcore clan or someone in the clan's leadership is an ancient egiptian slavedriver reincarnated, nowa more feasible way to deal with this can be either mass kicking and downsizing, virtually wasting quite a ton of stuff you put into research or mass kicking and attempting to recruit willing mutagen slaves  contibutors that will hopefully farm mutagen with you (rather than, say, pretend to help and hope the others get the work done so they can nab the research and hightail it).

On the other hand a brand new ghost clan is cheap relatively speaking and more importantly it requires resources plenty of people have huge stockpiles of with the possible exception of formas (and you only really need ten or so), now the cost of hema research at gost clan level is only 5000 mutagen samples which is not really much with ten people contributing and furthermore if you put someone thrustworty in charge of the "Hema research mini-clan" you can spread the contribution costs among as many people as you want at clan or alliance level by having them join in, contribute 100-200 mutagen samples or so then leave, then once the research is completed you can do the same thing again to let everyone you want grab a Hema blueprint, at which point you can dispose of the "mini-clan" or keep it stashed in the eventuality that de will make it a research requirement in the future, which one could feel is almost a certainty given that they pointedly DID NOT deny it being a possibility when directly asked which makes one think that they are planning on it or considering it at the very least. 

Unless i missed some restrictive factor even in the case you end up choosing to get rid of the "mini-clan" altogheter the time required to pay the costs (assuming you don't have a stockpile ready which most veterans do) is way less than the time it would require to farm 500k or even just 150k of mutagen samples (assuming of course that farming them is even an actual possibility which in most cases i'm pretty sure it's not) even if you include the time spent waiting for the constructions and previous research requirements to be finished. Now it's not an optimal solution from an organizative point of view and you need to trust on your clan leadership to handle things fairly but it's a solid alternative to forcing 30 or 40 people to farm mutagen samples for hours 

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by bl4ckhunter

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

3 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

Plus, there is a chance to get some from caches on the ship reactor sabotage missions.

the droprate of nitain from caches in sabotage missions is an order of magnitude greater than from any other caches in the game after all, so no prob there, aye?

[(XBOX)BULLS 0N PAR4DE]

Good idea but you are basically running 2 clans. I know people with alt profiles were talking about doing this and it seems now to be spreading throughout the community.

[KIREEK]

33 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Yeah if i ever get the Hema, i probably wont potato it, and once its maxed i'll forget it (except for the controversy it created). What we want are reasonable research costs, not 1000% increase in prices for a weapon with a gimmick, and DE being upfront and honest about this, because claiming there is an abundance of MS in derelict is a falsehood.

well, no

I did a 30 minute survival to help other players and i ended up with more than 50 mutagens, so 500 should take 300 minutes. Now, if you collect some of the rewards there, do quests there, gather corrupted mods, farm specific mods or rewards, unlock the nodes, scan enemies like kavats, gather the ayantan sculpture from maroo, repeat the boss a few times, those 300 minutes end up being not so hard at all, but it must be 300 minutes of pure killing, you do not farm in a capture by killing 2 enemies.

So, even if you need 1000 or 2000, it still doesn't take that much time to get the mutagens, it might take more than a day, but imagine this, doing 30 minutes survivals across 2 weeks (14 days), i mean is that out of this world? a 30 minute mission every day?

You don't need boosters, you just need to play, a drag for many players out there who find it difficult to kill 200 enemies in a capture mission

Edited January 26, 2017 by KIREEK

[bl4ckhunter]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)BULLS 0N PAR4DE said:

Good idea but you are basically running 2 clans. I know people with alt profiles were talking about doing this and it seems now to be spreading throughout the community.

Essentially yes, however "subsidiary" clans have worked and are still working fine even on larger scale in most old MMORPGs so i don't see really any problem with that, you don't even really need an alt account, which i personally think it's slightly murkier waters, you just need a trusted liutenant, or a head researcher i guess and to have the mini clan join an alliance with the parent clan and you don't even have problems of keeping people in the loop, save the occasional clan feud it's worked reliably historically speaking.

[Doc-Orange]

4 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

well, no

I did a 30 minute survival to help other players and i ended up with more than 50 mutagens, so 500 should take 300 minutes. Now, if you collect some of the rewards there, do quests there, gather corrupted mods, farm specific mods or rewards, unlock the nodes, scan enemies like kavats, gather the ayantan sculpture from maroo, repeat the boss a few times, those 300 minutes end up being not so hard at all, but it must be 300 minutes of pure killing, you do not farm in a capture by killing 2 enemies.

So, even if you need 1000 or 2000, it still doesn't take that much time to get the mutagens, it might take more than a day, but imagine this, doing 30 minutes survivals across 2 weeks (14 days), i mean is that out of this world? a 30 minute mission every day?

You don't need boosters, you just need to play, a drag for many players out there who find it difficult to kill 200 enemies in a capture mission

Of course this - and everything - is possible. But do you really think that is some kind of fun? I'm playing because of fun. I played far above 1000  hours and have no problem with dedication and grinding. But I wont support this totally bad game design.

[Xekrin]

5 hours ago, bl4ckhunter said:

out of curiosity

You wrote some seriously nice walls of text I didn't bother reading. I'm guessing all that boils down to

• create baby clan
• have people with enough samples finish research
• rotate members from original clan/alliances to get hema for all

Am I close?

[Xekrin]

21 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

You don't need boosters, you just need to play, a drag for many players out there who find it difficult to kill 200 enemies in a capture mission

Insulting players completely invalidates any and all advice, whether it may or may not be useful to anyone, completely.

Just thought you should know.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

the real Problem with the Hema is not so much the grind for the gun itself, but the fact that it WILL, at some point, become a research prerequisite for a newer, perhaps better weapon. one that might even be endgame viable, but you won't be able to get it unless you research the Hema first. doing it sooner rather than later prevents it from biting you in the behind later on. I also think DE could have handled the news a little better than what essentially amounts to "stop whining, do derelict, git gud", but what's done is done.

let's just hope this never happens again. I levelled my Hema (that I researched) today, not the worst gun ever, but not the best. it seems to have an accuracy issue, but it's still better than the Harpak or Paracyst.