Am I late on this? Kuva is based on Gunpowder. (TWW Spoilers?)

[Aktriaz]

I don't know if I'm the first one to think of this, so I won't take any credit if someone has before.

Kuva in warframe is supposed to be an "immortality" potion used by the Queens to extend their lives. It also has applications in weaponry; as seen with the Zarr and Rogga, which are very similar to early blackpowder weapons such as the Blunderbuss and Flintlock pistol respectively.

In REAL life, Black Powder was invented in china by accident while attempting to create an immortality potion. See the parallels?

While Kuva IS an immortality potion of the sort, it also has almost exclusively a use in weaponry; be it Riven mods or all the weapons it is used for. Nidus is the one exception so far, but his killing potential is virtually unrivaled among warframes, so he still fits.

I don't think it would be crazy to say that Kuva is most certainly inspired by Gunpowder. And if I'm right, we will see it as a theme in any items it is used to make; it'll either be a weapon or otherwise involve lots of killing potential.

[TARINunit9]

It's also used in Nidus who has basically no parallels to The War Within or ancient gunpowder

[Aktriaz]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

It's also used in Nidus who has basically no parallels to The War Within or ancient gunpowder

...I did acknowledge that in my post. Please read before posting.

[AM-Bunny]

Hate to break it to you, but I'd say literally all weapons and Warframes we have access to has 'lots of killing potential'. That's not exactly a notable trait.

Also what about Kesheg?

Interesting theory though.

EDIT: Also, Orvius uses Kuva.

Edited January 5, 2017 by AM-Bunny

[Aktriaz]

2 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:

Hate to break it to you, but I'd say literally all weapons and Warframes we have access to has 'lots of killing potential'. That's not exactly a notable trait.

Also what about Kesheg?

Interesting theory though.

EDIT: Also, Orvius uses Kuva.

Well, my original point was Kuva's relation to specifically "weapons" which includes weapon specific mods like Rivens.

What initially made the connection between Kuva and Gunpowder were the first guns released with it; and Blunderbuss(/Cannon) and Twin Flintlocks. It seem too much of a coincidence to be just a thematic choice.

And also, not all warframes have the same direct killing potential that someone like Nidus has, and by that I mean "push a button, everything dies". Not very many warframes have that beyond ults. How many warframes can you name that can do 40k+ damage to everyone on a 20m line?

[TARINunit9]

15 minutes ago, Actriaz said:

...I did acknowledge that in my post. Please read before posting.

Derp, my bad, I missed that line

[AM-Bunny]

1 minute ago, Actriaz said:

Well, my original point was Kuva's relation to specifically "weapons" which includes weapon specific mods like Rivens.

To be fair... we've only had a single Warframe release since Kuva was introduced, and he requires Kuva. One sample isn't enough to set a trend, and even if it were, the trend is going against your theory. Orvius requires Kuva, and by its design it seems to be a weapon emphasizing incapacitation, not killing or exploding.

2 minutes ago, Actriaz said:

And also, not all warframes have the same direct killing potential that someone like Nidus has, and by that I mean "push a button, everything dies". Not very many warframes have that beyond ults. How many warframes can you name that can do 40k+ damage to everyone on a 20m line?

Sort of a weak argument, since it's based completely on mechanics. Death and killing have no part of Nidus' design or theme. As someone with a Banshee avatar, I'm sure you're aware she can be used to dish out 2 gajillion damage with Sonar. That would make her  one of the most death-dealing Warframe in the game, but I still wouldn't associate her design with killing. 

5 minutes ago, Actriaz said:

What initially made the connection between Kuva and Gunpowder were the first guns released with it; and Blunderbuss(/Cannon) and Twin Flintlocks. It seem too much of a coincidence to be just a thematic choice.

Yeah, this is an interesting observation.

In my mind, it's similar to Oxium -- when Oxium was first introduced it was this rare alloy that was lighter than air. There was a mini-event where we had to farm Oxium from Oxium Ospreys, and then Zephyr was introduced as the first thing that  used Oxium. This is why Zephyr has low gravity and is so aerodynamic. However, since her release, there's been more items that require Oxium and make no reference to this lore, it just became a simple material like all the others.

[Helch0rn]

39 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

It's also used in Nidus who has basically no parallels to The War Within or ancient gunpowder

if Gunpowder was supposed to be an immortality potion and Kuva = Gunpowder, then it fits for Nidus. not because he dishes out massive damage but because of his "consume 10 mutation stacks to not die"-passive. which imo is pretty close to immortality

 

 

[Aktriaz]

30 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:

Sort of a weak argument, since it's based completely on mechanics. Death and killing have no part of Nidus' design or theme. As someone with a Banshee avatar, I'm sure you're aware she can be used to dish out 2 gajillion damage with Sonar. That would make her  one of the most death-dealing Warframe in the game, but I still wouldn't associate her design with killing.

I'm not trying to make a strong connection between Nidus and Gunpowder. He does, to an extent have a connection to Kuva, which is both an "Immortality potion" and a "poison". "Posion" and "Immotality" are themes related to Infested; which Nidus is, hence the connection.

Kuva is more than likely inspired by Gunpowder; but that doesn't mean it literally IS gunpowder. Gunpowder was intended to extend life, but is used for killing. Kuva was intended to extent life, but is used for killing. This is the only parallel I'm trying to draw out.

And on "Killing Potential"; I guess I should've worded that differently. Nidus has a Kinetic Damage feature, where he does a thing that deals damage. Sonar only sets people up for greater damage. Potential damage, if you will.

If Banshee's sonar is like pouring gasoline on someone to be lit later by a blowtorch, than Nidus is just a flamethrower.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Actriaz

[Cherac]

I was thinking its more like the philosopher's stone. I'm pretty sure there's at least a few people at DE who watch anime or at least have seen FMA:B, so its not too far off to think they might have used the series as a source of inspiration. In FMA:B, the stones are either liquid (kuva clouds) or solid (the one on the scepter.) They can be used to extend one's life (immortality, the queens, Nidus) or to change one thing into something completely different (Riven stats.)

I can see how black powder is also quite possibly tied into this. I assume it was made by alchemists, its also tied to immortality and we have the two weapons. The colors are an important detail as well; the stones are red in FMA:B, black powder is black and kuva is both.

[ThunderKitsune]

This all seems interesting. Kuva is a strange thing.

5 hours ago, Cherac said:

I was thinking its more like the philosopher's stone. I'm pretty sure there's at least a few people at DE who watch anime or at least have seen FMA:B, so its not too far off to think they might have used the series as a source of inspiration. In FMA:B, the stones are either liquid (kuva clouds) or solid (the one on the scepter.) They can be used to extend one's life (immortality, the queens, Nidus) or to change one thing into something completely different (Riven stats.)

I can see how black powder is also quite possibly tied into this. I assume it was made by alchemists, its also tied to immortality and we have the two weapons. The colors are an important detail as well; the stones are red in FMA:B, black powder is black and kuva is both.

The Philosopher's stone isn't only in FMA:B, it's also in the first adaptaion of the FMA anime and the Harry Potter series. Also the mith of that stone has been around for a very long time and the one in FMA was inspired by the mith, and the mith is most likly the insperation for Kuva.

[Unus]

   Theres alotta alchemy references round here. As someone who gets exceedingly bored and dabbles into the depths of historic occult literature (Thank God i'm not living in 15th century Spain), my "occult-turned-to-science" senses went all aquiver the moment we started digging up chunks of Rubedo. We have both a potential piece of the Great Work AND a mysterious solidified red substance which seems not unlike the Stone (The pure color red in alchemy signified success in the concoction).

First comes the blackening of putrification (The Infestation? The Void?)

Then comes the bleaching into whiteness and purity (. . . . . The Void?)

Then comes the great gilding of a new dawn (the Orokin's obsession with gold makes considerable sense here, as gold is the second-last ingredient in constructing the Great Work)

Then, at last, there is the reddening that ends the process. (Rubedo and Kuva)

Kuva might be the scientifically birthed parallel to Realities' fictional Philosopher's Stone.

Effects=

Liquefied, it grants the imbiber three centuries of stagnated age (we see a version of this in game with all of the Orokin)

Smelted, it automatically converts any base-metals it makes contact with into (depending on the dosage) aurum (gold) or argentum (silver) ((Technically, we see these effects through the Orokin's molecular engineering capabilities)) 

 

Phew, pologies folks, always loved a good bit o pseudo science chatter here and there, thanks much to you original poster for bringing this topic to light once again. Now, if you'll excuse me, I gotta go conjure up a phlogistan-based weapon for my Moshpit. Inspiration awayyyyyy!

Edited January 6, 2017 by Unus

[Cherac]

3 hours ago, ThunderKitsune said:

This all seems interesting. Kuva is a strange thing.

The Philosopher's stone isn't only in FMA:B, it's also in the first adaptaion of the FMA anime and the Harry Potter series. Also the mith of that stone has been around for a very long time and the one in FMA was inspired by the mith, and the mith is most likly the insperation for Kuva.

Yeah, I know its not only in FMA:B. I just struggled with wording a bit as it was late and I was trying to watch Prime Time while writing the previous comment. :)

The only reason I mentioned the series in the first place was just speculation on what might have sparked the inspiration for kuva to whoever is in charge of the lore, but seeing as Unus here pointed out quite a few other things it becomes less likely to be the case.

[ThunderKitsune]

Thankya for your input @Unus. That information does provide a lot of insight as to how they may of built their structures and how they got the gold for it.

@Cherac I see. Well FMA:B is a great anime.