Nidus really needs to get reworked

[(PSN)psycofang]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Snakeboy1990 said:

Nidus Changes & Fixes

• Increased the base health of Nidus’ Maggots to 1k.
• Increased Nidus’ Mutation Stack consumption from 10 to 15 when knocked into a bleedout state/death. The task of regaining 10 Stacks is quickly obtainable, making this consequence for dying too light. Although 15 Stacks is not a huge jump, we’re hoping it’s closer to that sweet spot! 
• Entering a Nullifier bubble will now drain down Mutation Stacks the longer you are in the bubble. 
• To increase the visibility of Nidus' Maggots, holding down Nidus’ Virulence will now display a HUD marker on them. Keep in mind that casting Virulence on Maggots cause them to detonate!
• Nidus’ Ravenous Maggots no longer auto detonate when feasting on enemies. Previously the Maggots could do a majority of the grunt work and you were able to watch the carnage and gain Stacks at the same time. Now to pop the Maggots you’ll need to cast Virulence on them and rejoice in your hard earned Stack accumulation. It’s also worth noting that with testing by our team, the Stack rhythm before and after this change wasn’t noticed at all. 
• Improved the FX of Maggot explosion to better represent the intended area of explosion.
• Nidus’ Ravenous Maggots will still attack but no longer latch on other Infested Maggots or Kuva Jesters due to awkward animations.  
• Fixed FX, Maggots, & Health regeneration while in Ravenous staying around forever if cast by a Client who leaves.

 

Thats not bad at all. 

 

Only problem i can see is high level sorties vs corpus multi spooling your stacks. Basically each one has its own magnifications, 3 stackedon top of each other drasticallt increases the spooling for example.

 

Nothing using a gun cant fix.

[GX339-4]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Snakeboy1990 said:

Nidus’ Ravenous Maggots no longer auto detonate when feasting on enemies

This is a NERF, is it?

[GX339-4]

Just now, (PS4)psycofang said:

 

Thats not bad at all. 

 

Only problem i can see is high level sorties vs corpus multi spooling your stacks. Basically each one has its own magnifications, 3 stackedon top of each other drasticallt increases the spooling for example.

 

Nothing using a gun cant fix.

Have you ever play with Nidus? I think he's not available on consoles NOW.

[DatDarkOne]

45 minutes ago, hatchetman said:

It's not to bad since DE are discussing changing the nullifier.

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^^This plus the fact that nullies don't have the bubble while unalerted any more.  I love the fact that I can now snipe nullies from long range now.  The proposed change above will make it even sweeter.  :D

[(PSN)psycofang]

4 minutes ago, GX339-4 said:

Have you ever play with Nidus? I think he's not available on consoles NOW.

 

Which is why is said and i quote "corpus multi spooling your stacks. Basically each one has its own magnifications, 3 stackedon top of each other drasticallt increases the spooling for example."

 

ive been following, watching and reading about him since his inception. These nerfs (maggot auto detonation) may be intrinsically bad but since youll be shooting/hitting 1 anyway youll be blowing them up regardless.

 

At least they didnt straight nerf his 4 against nullifiers.

 

 

[Separius]

12 minutes ago, GX339-4 said:

This is a NERF, is it?

Eeeeh, so-so. Basically forces you to always use your 1 in tandem with your 4 to gain stacks from your maggots, which wouldn't be a problem, but I (and I'm sure many others) like to use guns every once in a while, which is why having 4 auto generate stacks was nice. Now that's gone, if you don't do do that the way I just described, it's basically a healing field with unreliable CC and trivial damage, without the free stack gain.

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

It’s also worth noting that with testing by our team, the Stack rhythm before and after this change wasn’t noticed at all. 

If that's the case, I really wish to know why they felt the need to change it then, because I'm sure it didn't annoy anyone that Nidus players got free stacks ever so often, and this QoL nerf was uncalled for.

10 minutes ago, GX339-4 said:

Have you ever play with Nidus? I think he's not available on consoles NOW.

It isn't, so these console players defending the changes really lack credibility due to their lack of practical experience.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Separius

[Miser_able]

With the upcoming nullifier nerf this change will mean pretty much zip. And from from what I've heard the drain isn't that bad. 

[Eric1738]

The nerfs are not even that bad... seriously, we should play it out before meaningless complaints. The mutation stack loss might be a bigger deal, but how often does a Nidus die anyway?

Edited January 12, 2017 by Eric1738

[(PSN)psycofang]

3 minutes ago, Separius said:

Eeeeh, so-so. Basically forces you to always use your 1 in tandem with your 4 to gain stacks from your maggots, which wouldn't be a problem, but I (and I'm sure many others) like to use guns every once in a while, which is why having 4 auto generate stacks was nice. Now that's gone, if you don't do do that the way I just described, it's basically a healing field with unreliable CC and trivial damage, without the free stack gain.

If that's the case, I really wish to know why they felt the need to change it then, because I'm sure it didn't annoy anyone that Nidus players got free stacks ever so often, and this QoL nerf was uncalled for.

It isn't, so these console players defending the changes really lack credibility due to their lack of practical experience.

Im sure these changes cripple him, doom abd gloom is just as credible. I havent defended anything, im saying its not as bad as it couldve been considering how much whining everyones been doing.

 

But go ahead and create seperation for validity.

[Unus]

8 minutes ago, Separius said:

Eeeeh, so-so. Basically forces you to always use your 1 in tandem with your 4 to gain stacks from your maggots, which wouldn't be a problem, but I (and I'm sure many others) like to use guns every once in a while, which is why having 4 auto generate stacks was nice. Now that's gone, if you don't do do that the way I just described, it's basically a healing field with unreliable CC and trivial damage, without the free stack gain.

If that's the case, I really wish to know why they felt the need to change it then, because I'm sure it didn't annoy anyone that Nidus players got free stacks ever so often, and this QoL nerf was uncalled for.

It isn't, so these console players defending the changes really lack credibility due to their lack of practical experience.

   Ahhhhh, THERES the problem. Intereference with your particular form of combat just might lend that extra . . . sting to call for the creation of the thread. I recall being on the reverse side when Ash's tweaks resulted in a tidal wave of outrage I was free to ignore since it changed absolutely nothing about how I wage war with Ash.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Unus

[Darkmoone1]

The change just rests the case how absurd the gameplay design of Nullifiers are. If one is around, it's no big deal. However, because this is a game based on killing large groups of enemies and fighting against combinations of different enemy types, the scenario of multiple nullifiers is an issue. As with almost any warframe, multiple nullifiers in an enclosed space is going to mean certain doom for warframes that depend on abilities to stay afloat. With high level nodes (Like sorties) dropping these guys in droves, mixed in with other enemy types, you can forget getting through unscathed. 

Now it's even worse specifically for Nidus because the passive he's worked up towards will drain stack by stack. That means less power strength, less armor, and less health regen which he needs to survive without the ability to mod for shields and slightly above average armor. Which is seemingly weird about this decision, is that this counter to Nidus is in 2/4 major factions, corruption and Corpus. So he's fine against Grineer and Infested, but not the corrupted and corpus?

I don't know....I really am not a fan of this change....However, it's not my final word. I'll give it a week or so and then decide, but it just doesn't sit well with me.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Darkmoone1

[Yagamilight123]

46 minutes ago, Orthelius said:

He's going to be fine. 

yes... he has oberon to keep him company in the bench

 

[Vox_Preliator]

17 minutes ago, Separius said:

Yeah good luck with that vs lvl 80-100 nullifiers, especially with tonnes of them constantly respawning en masse.

You keep bringing that up.  If nullifiers move from "barely an issue, just slide attack them" to "oh hey they actually kinda resemble something like a threat that takes more than one shot" only in that high level range, a range that is only exceeded by endlessly scaling missions (which by their very nature are not intended to be balanced past a certain point) and I think raids (never bothered with them, I wouldn't know), frankly I don't see the issue here.  Hard missions are hard and require more care when playing?  How awful!  By the time "run in and slide attack" stops costing more than a pittance of stacks (while other frames entirely SoL if their pinky toe brushes the field) you should be able to use tactics and whatnot:  Gird your loins and get in there consequences be damned, might use more than a few stacks, but that's the price for sticking to a tactic you know has lost some effectiveness.  Retreat, try to break up the group, come at it from a different angle or better position, it baffles me that it feels like nobody ever retreats when they're getting surrounded, it's like they keep charging forward expecting the enemy to back up or die outright by the time they get there.  Don't let nullifiers clump together, if you see one alone, take it out immediately before another shows up, then another, then it's an impenetrable fortress of nullification.  Use your guns, sure abilities are "what makes Warframe, Warframe" (a sentiment I think is dumb and not even close to a proper argument) but you're carrying twice as many guns as you are Warframes (alternatively, half as many guns as abilities, still a generous fraction), guns are a preeeetty big chunk of the game, too.  I'd format this post better, but Firefox is being a butt and breaking, I've had to rely on the forum's auto-save like six times now and I've been trying to get this dumb thing written and not broken for like half an hour now.

[PsiWarp]

Not sure if bug, but still not fun.

[Separius]

1 minute ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

doom abd gloom is just as credible

Mark my words, there are and will be people who will shut down legit criticism of these changes indiscriminately.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

im saying its not as bad as it couldve been

You have no basis of judgement on this because of the following:

16 minutes ago, GX339-4 said:

Have you ever play with Nidus?

You haven't, and your theorycrafting isn't the same as personally experiencing the whole thing.

5 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

whining

There are whiners, but there were people in this very thread who dismissed legit explanations of why these changes were bad, so no, not everyone's been whining.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

But go ahead and create seperation for validity.

? I'm not creating division, damn it, it's a fact, that console players haven't gotten Nidus, they don't have experience with how he plays and they only have theorycrafting and videos to base their opinions on, and those are not very credible! Just because I done a course in Python without actually programming anything, and have watched that guy who builds shelters from basically anything in Australia, it doesn't mean that I am now a python programmer or that I could build those shelters myself! Just look at the job market! Most employers require you to have X years of EXPERIENCE in the field you are applying for! So no, I wasn't creating platform division, understand this!

[Hypernaut1]

at this point, i think its a competition on this board to make the latest, newest, hottest, doom and gloom DE gripe thread. 

Im not even sure if these are genuine anymore.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Orthelius]

The stack loss is managable - you lose about 1 stack every second you remain inside a Nullifier bubble. This is not affected by overlapping bubbles. You will Only lose 1 stack per second. This is perfectly fine and managable to get out of range of the bubble or attempt to kill the Nullifier. 

Nidus is not dead. He is fine.

[Separius]

14 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

wall of text 

You having the audacity to lecture me in nullifier killing =/= a legit argument for these Nidus stack nerfs.

Also:

16 minutes ago, Darkmoone1 said:

The change just rests the case how absurd the gameplay design of Nullifiers are. If one is around, it's no big deal. However, because this is a game based on killing large groups of enemies and fighting against combinations of different enemy types, the scenario of multiple nullifiers is an issue. As with almost any warframe, multiple nullifiers in an enclosed space is going to mean certain doom for warframes that depend on abilities to stay afloat. With high level nodes (Like sorties) dropping these guys in droves, mixed in with other enemy types, you can forget getting through unscathed. 

Now it's even worse specifically for Nidus because the passive he's worked up towards will drain stack by stack. That means less power strength, less armor, and less health regen which he needs to survive without the ability to mod for shields and slightly above average armor. Which is seemingly weird about this decision, is that this counter to Nidus is in 2/4 major factions, corruption and Corpus. So he's fine against Grineer and Infested, but not the corrupted and corpus?

Also:

50 minutes ago, Separius said:

But then again why am I even arguing with you people about this, you are literally defending the most unfun aspect of corpus games, tied with the millions of sapper ospreys swarming you (which you can't exactly kill when the whole area is protected by nullifier bubbles.) They need to be removed, not stood up for, this is insane.

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Separius

[SoulEchelon]

1 hour ago, -Voltage- said:

• Entering a Nullifier bubble will now drain down Mutation Stacks the longer you are in the bubble. 

This change is not so bad for normal use, but anyone who does hour+ fissures knows whats up with nullifiers. Like really DE? What is next, Scrambus/Combas do this too? It is painful on top of costing more stacks to use "undying mode" or whatever. This change is a straight up nerf and now punishes players who want to kill a nullifier.

 

I feel this is yet another kneejerk reaction.

 

You DO know Nullifiers are squishy right? It wouldn't even take half a second to kill them even at higher levels. If you're playing Nidus right, the stack drain would barely effect him if you kill them quickly, even in sorties.

I can't help but think alot of the people that complain so much about Nullifiers don't actually play like space ninjas, because I've yet to have a truly serious problem with them as long as I brought the correct gear to deal with them and used the parkour skills provided to us to take them down quickly.

[Separius]

20 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

at this point, i think its a competition on this board to make the latest, newest, hottest, doom and gloom DE gripe thread. 

Im not even sure if these are genuine anymore.

That's nice. Now if you could stop downplaying the issues with these nerfs just because of you being annoyed by some doomsayers, that'd be nicer.

15 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

I can't help but think alot of the people that complain so much about Nullifiers don't actually play like space ninjas, because I've yet to have a truly serious problem with them as long as I brought the correct gear to deal with them and used the parkour skills provided to us to take them down quickly.

Their gamestyle is somehow related to how you are not having problem with nullies? Sound reasoning lmao.

You wanna know why people hate nullifiers? Because they were put in the game to stop Mag, Excal, Trinity affinity farmers on Viver an old corpus, interception map. That combo earned better affinity than old Draco farming, DE didn't like that, obviously and they nerfed all 3 of them which caused huge backlash so they went back on them (at least then) and added Nullifiers.

With that being said, they don't belong in normal gameplay. They are unfun to play against, sure they are managable but they are UNFUN to deal with, I don't play a game to be frustrated by unfun things, I play games to have fun. Call me insane because of that, I don't care. There is difference between challenge like dealing with bombards and the unfun poop that is nullifiers.

Reminder that this is a horde shooter, not a "go out of your way to kill a bad solution to affinity farming being a problem so that you can actually go back to shooting hordes" simulator.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Separius

[(XBOX)Gingka43]

16 minutes ago, Separius said:

Mark my words, there are and will be people who will shut down legit criticism of these changes indiscriminately.

You have no basis of judgement on this because of the following:

You haven't, and your theorycrafting isn't the same as personally experiencing the whole thing.

There are whiners, but there were people in this very thread who dismissed legit explanations of why these changes were bad, so no, not everyone's been whining.

? I'm not creating division, damn it, it's a fact, that console players haven't gotten Nidus, they don't have experience with how he plays and they only have theorycrafting and videos to base their opinions on, and those are not very credible! Just because I done a course in Python without actually programming anything, and have watched that guy who builds shelters from basically anything in Australia, it doesn't mean that I am now a python programmer or that I could build those shelters myself! Just look at the job market! Most employers require you to have X years of EXPERIENCE in the field you are applying for! So no, I wasn't creating platform division, understand this!

 I really don't get the point of nerfing something that isn't on all platform yet for the whole community to give there feedback on. 

[(PSN)psycofang]

29 minutes ago, Separius said:

Mark my words, there are and will be people who will shut down legit criticism of these changes indiscriminately.

 

I did no such thing.

 

29 minutes ago, Separius said:

You haven't, and your theorycrafting isn't the same as personally experiencing the whole thing.

Its not theory crafting when the foundation of information is given to you.  He is not complicated nor is 1 stack per second maximum via

 

23 minutes ago, Orthelius said:

The stack loss is managable - you lose about 1 stack every second you remain inside a Nullifier bubble. This is not affected by overlapping bubbles. You will Only lose 1 stack per second. This is perfectly fine and managable to get out of range of the bubble or attempt to kill the Nullifier. 

Which was the only true issue concerning his nerfs.

 

29 minutes ago, Separius said:

There are whiners, but there were people in this very thread who dismissed legit explanations of why these changes were bad, so no, not everyone's been whining.

I did no such thing and dismissed no one, i gave a reasonable solution to a potential oversight by the devs, which at current doesnt exist. 

 

29 minutes ago, Separius said:

? I'm not creating division, damn it, it's a fact, that console players haven't gotten Nidus, they don't have experience with how he plays and they only have theorycrafting and videos to base their opinions on, and those are not very credible!

Except the game nor WF systems are difficult to understand nor simultate proper. Youre acting as if he has to go far out of his way and approach general situations completely different from everyone else, he is not the level of an outlier.

 

29 minutes ago, Separius said:

Just because I done a course in Python w

False equivalency.

 

29 minutes ago, Separius said:

it doesn't mean that I am now a python programmer or that I could build those shelters myself! Just look at the job market! Most employers require you to have X years of EXPERIENCE in the field you are applying for!

Again False equivalency Nidius is to another warframe/situation as a LPN is to a RN.

 

Applicable difference but the same practically.

Edited January 12, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[(PSN)joshw1400]

You guys are acting like he wasn't gonna get changed.

[Separius]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

things

I'm so sorry for offending you by pointing out that console players haven't had the experience to play Nidus and that my experience dictates that you have to get first hand experience X before you can say you know enough about X to argue regarding X. So sorry about that. I'm still standing by what I said though.

With that being said, both examples given are analogous to this situation, both of them require experience to say that you know enough about them. Sorry if you dislike this, but they weren't logical fallacies at all.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Separius

[-Ropefish-]

1 hour ago, Eggplants said: