Nidus really needs to get reworked

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)maso_sage-mode said:

yes , i got too emotional i guess aahah:P i cant wait anymore to play it :/

It happens man at least you noticed it before you pushed yourself over the edge. 😊

I can't wait myself really looking foward to it. ☺

I'm actually more excited about the possibility that one of changes made for my Inaros.😆

 

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

It happens man at least you noticed it before you pushed yourself over the edge. 😊

I can't wait myself really looking foward to it. ☺

I'm actually more excited about the possibility that one of changes made for my Inaros.😆

 

the one you wrote about nullifiers should be better than from 100 to 0 for sure :D

[Separius]

3 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Is Nidus not fun anymore?

Nidus is fun, will always be fun. We are discussing the nerfs though, not whether he is fun or not.

[Kronxito]

Its totally normal he got nerfed. His stack system was inmune to everything but death.

Now they have to balance it. A good first step IMO. But I see more changes incoming. Hope they dont break him down. Just balance.

[Littlerift]

1 hour ago, Separius said:

Go practise your virtue signalling somewhere else, partner.

Also the changes to his four are definitely not just minor nerfs, people are posting the results of their testing left and right, there are some in this very thread.

Furthermore, despite the clickbait title in the OP, he does bring up a legit point. Not everyone who criticizes the changes are doomsayers either, so don't generalize.

I'm not quite sure if you know what virtue signally is.

 

And it's not a minor thing in terms of Nidus's playstyle, no, but all it has actually done is place him at the same level as everybody else: like every other frame Nidus now looses efficiency by entering nullifier bubbles.

I agree that Nullies are poorly designed, by the way.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Littlerift

[Evanescent]

People in hour long fissures:

1)Don't stand for minutes in nullifier bubbles 

2)Are at a level here losing a stack or two is not a problem because Nidus can build stacks on high level enemies so fast.

Really?

[Littlerift]

Why should Nidus not lose stacks when he enters a Nullifier bubble? Everybody else effectively loses energy, which is their method of fueling power use, due to the loss of duration or the need to recast. And, other 'frames also lose major buffs/debuffs and effect stacks (Equi's Maim, for example). I simply fail to see why Nidus should be exempt from that rule. There may be an issue with Nullifier bubble stacking, which may need addressing to prevent inflated stack-loss caused by instances where a group of Nullifier suddenly appear, but I would maintain that Nidus should lose stacks when remaining inside a Nullifier bubble because anything else is exceptionalism.

[KenthNisshoku]

can we have the maggots that latch on the enemies give us 1 stack (1/5) per second just in case team mates kill steal from you preventing you to get any stacks at all

because I used my Ravenous after the patch and I barely got any stacks from these maggots

also they glitch/bug the AI on enemies

I entered a room and saw like 7 enemies staring at nothing after the maggot died

[Separius]

 

4 hours ago, Littlerift said:

Why should Nidus not lose stacks when he enters a Nullifier bubble? Everybody else effectively loses energy, which is their method of fueling power use, due to the loss of duration or the need to recast. And, other 'frames also lose major buffs/debuffs and effect stacks (Equi's Maim, for example). I simply fail to see why Nidus should be exempt from that rule. There may be an issue with Nullifier bubble stacking, which may need addressing to prevent inflated stack-loss caused by instances where a group of Nullifier suddenly appear, but I would maintain that Nidus should lose stacks when remaining inside a Nullifier bubble because anything else is exceptionalism.

4 hours ago, Littlerift said:

And it's not a minor thing in terms of Nidus's playstyle, no, but all it has actually done is place him at the same level as everybody else: like every other frame Nidus now looses efficiency by entering nullifier bubbles.

 

Yeah he lost efficiency before these nerfs too, he couldn't cast in the bubble. And even with this change he isn't on the same level with some warframes, how about inaros' armor buff being instantly eaten? Equinox' damage stack lost? Why don't they lose their things over time instead of instantly? 

Also how come Corpus can suddenly cure the infestation now? What a mess.

Don't get me wrong, I do want him to be equal to others, I'd just rather Fun-nulliefiers didn't exist in the first place, for the reasons I detailed in this thread already.

This isn't the thing I dislike the most about the nerfs, it's the one they done to their ult anyway.

[jmthebigman]

7 hours ago, Navarchus said:

Man if it takes you about 2 minutes standing still in a nullifier bubble to have your buffs removed that's still too much when everyone else lose everything instantly..

Everyone else can pretty much regain everything instantly. Nidus cant.

[Littlerift]

4 hours ago, Separius said:

Yeah he lost efficiency before these nerfs too, he couldn't cast in the bubble. And even with this change he isn't on the same level with some warframes, how about inaros' armor buff being instantly eaten? Equinox' damage stack lost? Why don't they lose their things over time instead of instantly? 

Also how come Corpus can suddenly cure the infestation now? What a mess.

Don't get me wrong, I do want him to be equal to others, I'd just rather Fun-nulliefiers didn't exist in the first place, for the reasons I detailed in this thread already.

This isn't the thing I dislike the most about the nerfs, it's the one they done to their ult anyway.

Nobody can cast in Nullifier bubbles, so that's hardly a specific issue that Nidus experiences. Unlike most other Warframes Nidus has no essential powers that are immediately removed by the Nullifier bubble, and his ability that is cancelled when he enters a bubble is relatively cheaper than most others as it only costs 1 stack. As for Nidus not being on the level, I would say he's easily within the top tier of Warframes, or at very least is the leading non-top tier frame. He's practically impossible to kill, can crowd control well, can deal a decent amount of damage, and can buff allies. Nidus, though, is a bit of a generalist, which means of course he's going to lose out to other 'frames in specific areas.

Equinox losing her damage stack is a massive problem for her because building that stock costs a lot of energy, which means that upon entering a nullifier bubble or having a nullifier spawn on top of her she effectively loses a huge amount of energy.

The lore behind Nullifiers doesn't make much sense in any regard, so it isn't really an argument specifically in favour of Nidus keeping his stacks. And I agree that Nullifiers need some work. Tbh I quite like them in principle, but at the minute their spawn rate is ridiculous and they completely shut down some Warframes. In all honesty I agree with the current hot thread on the reddit, wherein its argued that this change to Nidus would be a good thing to adopt with other Warframes: instead of Mesa instantly losing her Shatter Shield it could be debuffed over time by Nullifiers, same with Inaros's armour, etc. That would be a positive change.

Again though, I think Nidus still easily justifies his place on any team outside of ridiculous high-end stuff, which only allows for very specific Warframes and weapons anyway. Saying that because Nidus can't compete with Simulor-Mirage he's rubbish to me seems like less of a call for a buff or rollback on Nidus and more of a call for a nerf to Simulor-Mirage (which is long overdue). If Simulor-Mirage is the measure, though, then there are a lot of 'frames that should be higher in the queue for buffing than Nidus.

[Mover-NeRo]

The thing ppl don't see here is his gameplay. Let me explain.

Playing as nidus requires building stacks. You need it for dmg, armor and to cast other abilities. Until you reach 10-20 stacks you are not doing much. You can only get stacks by his first ability (after nerf).

So what you do in first minutes is spamming your first and sometimes your second ability since it helps. Later you can start using link and your "ultimate" 4th ability. While before the nerf you could deploy your 4th and start maybe you know ..using weapons..now you need to manualy detonate the magots too. So again all you do is spamming first ability.

And that is it...all you will do playing nidus is spamming 1. Because everytime you kill something with your weapons you lose possible stacks. Until now you could at least deploy 4 and let it do some work..but now you need to take care of it too. Its strong but it will get boring after a while.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

from what I've seen, the changes don't seem that bad. they could have been way worse. imagine losing ALL your stacks at once when you so much as Graze a bubble, like with other frames. imagine if they nerfed his damage. imagine if they made his powers cost more energy. thins could have been way worse, and I expected them to be so. turns out DE actually handled this nerf rather well (probably because there'd be riots here if he was nerfed like Trinity was.). this proves that DE can do things properly when they put their minds to it, just a shame it doesn't happen more often. plus if that Nully weak spot happens, it'll be even less of a problem.

just waiting to hear when the build will be sent for cert, hopefully tomorrow? we've been waiting a while, even by our standards..

[tnccs215]

@MokutoBunshi, not to undervalue the presented problem, but you clearly never played Equinox with Corpus.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

2 hours ago, (PS4)maso_sage-mode said:

So I would like to know other peoples opinions about the nerf and rivens.

Personally, I don't care about rivens or how a new frame is balanced on PC before it arrives on consoles.

Getting concerned about such things is a waste of energy.

[Separius]

 

3 hours ago, Littlerift said:

The lore behind Nullifiers doesn't make much sense in any regard, so it isn't really an argument specifically in favour of Nidus keeping his stacks.

Yeah exactly. So he got hindered by that as much as everyone else. The point you were making is that he got it less bad before the nerfs.

3 hours ago, Littlerift said:

Unlike most other Warframes Nidus has no essential powers that are immediately removed by the Nullifier bubble, and his ability that is cancelled when he enters a bubble is relatively cheaper than most others as it only costs 1 stack.

It also removes 90% damage reduction which is pretty bad when you are running around panicing trying to kill 12 nullifiers in a sapping minefield. He was fine before the nerf.

3 hours ago, Littlerift said:

Equinox losing her damage stack is a massive problem for her because building that stock costs a lot of energy, which means that upon entering a nullifier bubble or having a nullifier spawn on top of her she effectively loses a huge amount of energy.

 

3 hours ago, Littlerift said:

In all honesty I agree with the current hot thread on the reddit, wherein its argued that this change to Nidus would be a good thing to adopt with other Warframes: instead of Mesa instantly losing her Shatter Shield it could be debuffed over time by Nullifiers, same with Inaros's armour, etc. That would be a positive change.

Let's hope all this complaining will make DE improve the situation for them.

3 hours ago, Littlerift said:

The lore behind Nullifiers doesn't make much sense in any regard, so it isn't really an argument specifically in favour of Nidus keeping his stacks.

Fine, it was more of a rant anyway. As I said I'm not all that much annoyed by the Nullifier stack reduction, just the ult nerf. 

3 hours ago, Littlerift said:

Saying that because Nidus can't compete with Simulor-Mirage he's rubbish to me seems like less of a call for a buff or rollback on Nidus and more of a call for a nerf to Simulor-Mirage (which is long overdue).

I don't recall even mentioning Simulor Mirage, but I might be wrong. Nidus outperforms her in high level environment anyway, but I get what you mean.

3 hours ago, Littlerift said:

If Simulor-Mirage is the measure, though, then there are a lot of 'frames that should be higher in the queue for buffing than Nidus.

Obviously, but there was no point in nerfing his 4, especially considering it introduced some bugs to a perfectly fine ability that didn't hurt anyone else's experience of the game. Maybe on low level missions.

[Littlerift]

3 hours ago, Separius said:

Yeah exactly. So he got hindered by that as much as everyone else. The point you were making is that he got it less bad before the nerfs.

It also removes 90% damage reduction which is pretty bad when you are running around panicing trying to kill 12 nullifiers in a sapping minefield. He was fine before the nerf.

Let's hope all this complaining will make DE improve the situation for them.

Fine, it was more of a rant anyway. As I said I'm not all that much annoyed by the Nullifier stack reduction, just the ult nerf. 

I don't recall even mentioning Simulor Mirage, but I might be wrong. Nidus outperforms her in high level environment anyway, but I get what you mean.

Obviously, but there was no point in nerfing his 4, especially considering it introduced some bugs to a perfectly fine ability that didn't hurt anyone else's experience of the game. Maybe on low level missions.

 

He did have it better than any other 'frame before the nerfs, as before the changes he basically suffered no penalty by entering nullifier bubbles whereas almost every other 'frame pays a huge penalty for it.

It removes every 'frame's damage reduction, why should Nidus be an exception here? And why do you always go to the 'Room full of tens of Nullifiers' argument. I've been playing since beta and it's not that common an occurrence to get trapped inside more than two or three stacked bubbles. The only exception is a few very specific sortie conditions that can lead to issues, but again, they cause massive issues to everybody and at least Nidus has the innate beefiness to last for 0.2 seconds against high end enemies without using powers rather than the more typically 0.05. 

I didn't really know enough about the mechanics of his 4 before the nerf to comment, but it still seems pretty viable and useful, especially given that it is potentially free to cast (obviously it has an immediate investment but it can pay for itself over time).

[Oxstarz]

• Nidus’ Ravenous Maggots no longer auto detonate when feasting on enemies. Previously the Maggots could do a majority of the grunt work and you were able to watch the carnage and gain Stacks at the same time. Now to pop the Maggots you’ll need to cast Virulence on them and rejoice in your hard earned Stack accumulation. It’s also worth noting that with testing by our team, the Stack rhythm before and after this change wasn’t noticed at all. 

Okay, DE, serious talk... Do noooooot introduce this change for PC. Understand that ravenous is the only ability that Nidus has that can be reliably used vs single or few targets. Sure, the whole virulence pop works vs large groups but in quality over quanity scenarios, there is simply no way to sustain your energy. Unless you use a rage mod, but that'd draw the fights out, make you useless in group scenarios that are not horde mode, and make Nidus dependent on a single mod in order to be anything more than an anti-horde frame only. You'd regress the frame into a corner.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Oxstarz

[heskaroid]

stop going in nullifier bubbles

[Littlerift]

This should probably be stickied.

[(PSN)JaysInc_]

Or don't stay in their like it's your house.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

A nerf was definitely needed, I agree with that. But in my opinion, it was executed in a bad way. Now you lose more stacks when the Undying passive kicks in, and now the maggots need to be detonated manually as well using Virulence. What this means is that Nidus players need to spam 1 way more than before. As if that wasn't annoying enough for non Nidus players pre-patch, but now it's even more annoying with even more Virulences going around.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

"I'm tryin ta ghet thoze Needis Stecks mun but thes Nullys keep kickin muh azz"

[Top_Kekkonen]

Well. You're not wrong.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

But the bubble touches my soul and makes me feel all warm inside.