Damage 3.0 Suggestions - Weapon Exilus Slots & Universal Base Damage Slot

[Valthryn]

The Devs talked a bit about damage 3.0 aspirations in the stream today, so I'd like to provide two ideas that I think could solve the problem of base damage mods being a necessary tax, and QoL mods being at the bottom of the food chain.

 

Primary/Secondary Weapon Exilus Mod Slots -

This idea serves to give use to rarely used mods for primary and secondary weapons like Fast Hands, Stabilizer, Quickdraw, Seeker, etc. Mods that offer large QoL improvements but are almost never used in meta builds as a substitute for a damage mod, especially on crit weapons. Each primary and secondary weapon would only have a single exilus slot, just like warframes do.

Each Slot would only accept mods that don't directly affect the weapon's damage stats in any way, so for example you can't put a split chamber or a riven into this slot, as it is exclusively for quality of life improvement mods.

As of this moment, I don't feel that melee weapons really need a dedicated QoL slot, as the most meta melee builds typically include Berserker or (Primed) Fury for non-crit weapons. The speed of a melee weapon directly affects its burst and sustained DPS since melee weapons do not require a resource, i.e. ammo, to use.

 

Universal Base Damage Mod Slot -

This proposes a remedy to Serration, Hornet Strike, (Primed) Point Blank, and (Primed) Pressure Point being essentially a 1 slot, 1 forma tax on every weapon that goes into your arsenal, and does so without eliminating the progression aspect of ranking said mods to increase the power of your weapons. In order to remedy this situation, each weapon would be given a new dedicated slot for its associated base damage mod. For example, the Telos Boltor would have a dedicated slot for Serration. Similar to aura mods, when put in their dedicated slots, base damage mods would add mod capacity (because of the proposed primary and secondary weapon exilus slots adding another mod capacity drain; most of my builds already require at least 3 or 4 polarities, so I don't think that adding a requirement for 1 or 2 more would be a good idea). However, the universal base damage slots would always come without a polarity and could not be polarized, to prevent us from adding an extra 28 mod capacity.

 

With both of these suggestions combined, we have a solution for base damage mod tax and that Primed Fast Hands that you maxed out but never use in your builds, or maybe I'm the only one that did that.

Post below if you like this post or hate it.

I like it tho.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Daggerpaw1
stuff

[omeggga]

I really like the second idea better.

I'm tired of needing to put 3-6 forma on a primary every time I decide a weapon is a keeper.

[Endless_Destruction]

Seems a little weird to give each weapon a dedicated slot for the ONLY mod of its kind.

The only base damage mod for rifles is Serration. The only base damage mod for shotguns is Point Blank, not counting the Primed version, just two examples. Why do we need an extra mod slot for only one mod? It would make more sense to just get rid of the mod, and add some compensating factors.

[ShortCat]

12 hours ago, Daggerpaw1 said:

Primary/Secondary Weapon Exilus Mod Slots

This concept didn't work with our Frames, why should it work with weapons now?

12 hours ago, Daggerpaw1 said:

Universal Base Damage Mod Slot

The problem is not so much how gear is modded, but how uneven existing mods are.

 

[Me.Greedy]

I think I like both ideas...

but for the base damage space it could also be swapped for variants of pure base damage (like split chamber/heavy caliber/... ect) ..also you could make it a restriction so that only one pure base damage mod can be used. so if i have a status weapon i may want split chamber, but i'd want serration on a crit build. (although I don't think that would be best, but it would certainly cap the power creep alittle bit) ..  anything with an element would be unable to be used here. this could also open the door for more interesting damage only mods.

sidenote: also you could move Rifle Amp to it as well and still keep it as an aura... (because why do you equip an aura mod for your rifle/pistol on your warframe anyways?)

 

 

[Starwake]

What about mastery rank effecting damage to effectively remove seration from builds by mr reflecting on how high  base damage goes.

Just an idea dont know if it would actually function?

[(PSN)VanHorstmann90]

On 7/1/2017 at 4:25 PM, Endless_Destruction said:

Seems a little weird to give each weapon a dedicated slot for the ONLY mod of its kind.

The only base damage mod for rifles is Serration. The only base damage mod for shotguns is Point Blank, not counting the Primed version, just two examples. Why do we need an extra mod slot for only one mod? It would make more sense to just get rid of the mod, and add some compensating factors.

The thing is that DE have changed their minds recently, so the initial plan of deleting those mods has been discarded.

Damage 3.0 won't happen.

[(PSN)VanHorstmann90]

15 minutes ago, Starwake said:

What about mastery rank effecting damage to effectively remove seration from builds by mr reflecting on how high  base damage goes.

Just an idea dont know if it would actually function?

It was DE original idea. Then they said "screw it, have yourselves a Riven".

Before we had 1 problem, now we have two.

[Darkvramp]

The other thing I wanna see is the IPS damage mods act like elemental damage mods. But at the same time I don't want to be able to stack IPS mods with elem. mods. So in turn if you used a IPS mod, you would get the same amount of damage add if you would have used a elem. mod, but now that you have an IPS mod on, you can't attach a elem. mod. Something like this could maybe introduce build diversity, but you would have to increase the effect of the status proc of the Impact and puncture as they fall being in usefulness against slash.

[Endless_Destruction]

10 hours ago, (PS4)VanHorstmann90 said:

The thing is that DE have changed their minds recently, so the initial plan of deleting those mods has been discarded.

Damage 3.0 won't happen.

It might happen, just in a really roundabout way, because the optimal solution is to just get rid of the mods, and refund any and all resources spent there. If they truly did change their minds, then the only other solution I can see is a sort of "non-capacity" mod slot section, where the mandatory mods would be placed in a special place outside the 8 mod slots, and not affect capacity.

Actually, now that I think about it, that works out quite nicely, so long as there isn't a mod slot limit in the non-capacity section. Everything necessary gets to stay, build diversity is improved.

[(PSN)VanHorstmann90]

On 9/1/2017 at 1:50 PM, Endless_Destruction said:

It might happen, just in a really roundabout way, because the optimal solution is to just get rid of the mods, and refund any and all resources spent there. If they truly did change their minds, then the only other solution I can see is a sort of "non-capacity" mod slot section, where the mandatory mods would be placed in a special place outside the 8 mod slots, and not affect capacity.

Actually, now that I think about it, that works out quite nicely, so long as there isn't a mod slot limit in the non-capacity section. Everything necessary gets to stay, build diversity is improved.

They already said it on stream, they will introduce new enemies. Mods will stay the same because we have Riven now. Hurray.
As if people were not trying to get +%Damage +%Multishot (+%Crit +%CritDmg +%Status) on every Riven.
The saddest part then, is that not endgame players cannot obtain Rivens nor reroll them in an efficient way.
We need the chance to use utility mods, damn it.

[Shockwave-]

On 1/7/2017 at 10:25 AM, Endless_Destruction said:

Seems a little weird to give each weapon a dedicated slot for the ONLY mod of its kind.

The only base damage mod for rifles is Serration. The only base damage mod for shotguns is Point Blank, not counting the Primed version, just two examples. Why do we need an extra mod slot for only one mod? It would make more sense to just get rid of the mod, and add some compensating factors.

No it wouldn't That serration is the difference between an MR 1 using a weapon on earth and an MR 20 using the same weapon on a sortie. That serration is your "advancement" mod. I proposed this a while ago on these forums several times. Make a dedicated slot. Make the mod a 10 pip mod for each weapon class,  give all new players the base damaged mod as part of an initial quest, and make the mod take 3-4 times as many credits and endo to max as as a primed mod. This would be your "level" in Warframe in a way. Sure that weapons skill level is portable to any weapon but it is why guns int he hands of a MR 23 person are stronger than in the hands of a MR 1 person. In any other game your level determines your skill, not just he weapon you hold. In WF once you level a frame to 30 and a weapon to 30 you are DONE. Level another weapon to 30 is repetition, not advancement. Removing serration and these mods removes that advancement. Tht's why they should be beefed up and very hard to max out, it should take you to MR 15 or 16 to even max them effectively, or rather the normal playing time to get there (whether you increase your MR or not). Since mods are the only measure of advnacement there should be 'advancement' mods

Edited January 10, 2017 by Shockwave-

[Etharien]

We don't need more mod slots. I'd rather see a mods 2.0/damage 3.0 before seeing more mod slots. Basically what you're saying is the mods are so bad that we need to give them a dedicated slot to force min/max'ers to use them. Don't you see what's wrong with the bigger picture here? Modding for a weapon should be a debate whether you want X over Y. Currently, it's not. It's how much damage either sustained or burst i can get out of the weapon. With the exception of status weapons, and a few outliers.

As for adding another slot for innate serration, that's another glaring issue with the mod system altogether. So yet again, I'd rather see mods 2.0/damage 3.0.

[Herosupport]

I'd much rather have a simpler system where you weapon levels up getting +300% damage at rank 30 removing the need for all damage mods(remove them from the game) and less mod slots maybe 6 and have the multi shot mods function be changed to just increase status chance. critical chance and critical damage could also be increase by rank letting DE remove those mods from the game giving the weapons more free slots for utility. Sniper rifles and crit based weapons like the sibarus and latron get 100% crit chance.

If riven mods are not going to be removed from the game then let there be a riven mod slot and not a exilus slot. I would like to see the riven mod system changed and have RNG removed from it and have each weapon get one thats made for them and its up to the player to farm kuva to level them up from Mr8 to Mr16 and the polarity standardized.

brakk riven mod: +accuracy no damage falloff or increased damage falloff range with +meters shown.

best case scenario the scrap riven mods and balance all the unpopular weapons

F.Y.I. I have all the primed mods maxed and I wont mind seeing them go if the new system is done right.

Also I would like to see level caps in damage 3,0 on enemy units I hate how their damage/armor scales infinitely I would much rather see enemies of higher levels with soft spots or weak points or moments of vulnerability that have that absurd amounts of armor however NO MORE GOD MODES!!!!!!!!  General Sargus Ruck and Lt. Lech Kril are in DIRE need of a rework Along with RAZORBACK omg that boss screams if you have more then 2 brain cells you can tell how this boss was designed  DE please damage reduction over god mode.

[DRACONICINFERNUS]

On 1/6/2017 at 9:40 PM, Daggerpaw1 said:

The Devs talked a bit about damage 3.0 aspirations in the stream today, so I'd like to provide two ideas that I think could solve the problem of base damage mods being a necessary tax, and QoL mods being at the bottom of the food chain.

 

Primary/Secondary Weapon Exilus Mod Slots -

This idea serves to give use to rarely used mods for primary and secondary weapons like Fast Hands, Stabilizer, Quickdraw, Seeker, etc. Mods that offer large QoL improvements but are almost never used in meta builds as a substitute for a damage mod, especially on crit weapons. Each primary and secondary weapon would only have a single exilus slot, just like warframes do.

Each Slot would only accept mods that don't directly affect the weapon's damage stats in any way, so for example you can't put a split chamber or a riven into this slot, as it is exclusively for quality of life improvement mods.

As of this moment, I don't feel that melee weapons really need a dedicated QoL slot, as the most meta melee builds typically include Berserker or (Primed) Fury for non-crit weapons. The speed of a melee weapon directly affects its burst and sustained DPS since melee weapons do not require a resource, i.e. ammo, to use.

 

Universal Base Damage Mod Slot -

This proposes a remedy to Serration, Hornet Strike, (Primed) Point Blank, and (Primed) Pressure Point being essentially a 1 slot, 1 forma tax on every weapon that goes into your arsenal, and does so without eliminating the progression aspect of ranking said mods to increase the power of your weapons. In order to remedy this situation, each weapon would be given a new dedicated slot for its associated base damage mod. For example, the Telos Boltor would have a dedicated slot for Serration. Similar to aura mods, when put in their dedicated slots, base damage mods would add mod capacity (because of the proposed primary and secondary weapon exilus slots adding another mod capacity drain; most of my builds already require at least 3 or 4 polarities, so I don't think that adding a requirement for 1 or 2 more would be a good idea). However, the universal base damage slots would always come without a polarity and could not be polarized, to prevent us from adding an extra 28 mod capacity.

 

With both of these suggestions combined, we have a solution for base damage mod tax and that Primed Fast Hands that you maxed out but never use in your builds, or maybe I'm the only one that did that.

Post below if you like this post or hate it.

I like it tho.

good Idea! I would love to see this happen

 

[Chroia]

On 1/7/2017 at 5:25 PM, Endless_Destruction said:

Seems a little weird to give each weapon a dedicated slot for the ONLY mod of its kind.

I agree.
But the reason Steve gave that they're not removing base damage mods (and baking them directly into the weapon/rank) is to 'respect players' investment'.
Giving them a dedicated slot is a pretty good middle ground: You're removing a base damage mod from competing for slot space without  invalidating players' investment.

[Endless_Destruction]

23 hours ago, Chroia said:

I agree.
But the reason Steve gave that they're not removing base damage mods (and baking them directly into the weapon/rank) is to 'respect players' investment'.
Giving them a dedicated slot is a pretty good middle ground: You're removing a base damage mod from competing for slot space without  invalidating players' investment.

I understand DE's reasoning, and applaud them for the consideration. Their reasoning STILL is fundamentally flawed.

I disagree that middle ground is even necessary. Here's the thing-there is literally nothing about removal that is unfair, with refunds for investments into the mod.

Investment into a mod includes four things-Acquisition, Endo Investment, Credit Investment, and (optional) Forma Investment. Acquisition for base damage mods in particular is almost non-existant, apart from Primed mods, because they are quite common drops. Note, I'm not talking about corrupted base damage mods like Heavy Caliber. The base damage mods, if taken away, don't need to be compensated for Acquisition investment. Primed mods can be compensated by ducats and credits. Rank ups can EASILY be refunded with the appropriate amount of credit and endo. That takes care of 3 elements of investment. Forma is a bit weird. It is hard to tell whether a player installed forma for a particular mod, so after the changes roll in, DE can just give everyone 4 free, pre-built formas, one for each base damage mod, excluding Primes, giving players the option to reset if necessary, otherwise, a nice gift from DE.

"Respecting Players' Investment" is an excellent sentiment, but completely invalid because of the ability to refund the investment entirely. It is the same reason why their reason for keeping Hema's cost is absurd. REFUNDS EXIST. Middle Ground is unnecessary, removal is just a good idea.

Now, dedicated slots. That's basically just taking them out of the mod system anyway, and giving them their own little niche. I get that, but for only one mod of its kind, it seems like a lot of unnecessary work.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Endless_Destruction

[Inumayobaka]

Your suggestion is similar to what I had in mind.

The final outcome being able to use QoL mods!

I really like that someone already suggested this. I shall still share my idea in a seperate post!