Please Undo Bladestorm Changes

[Birdframe_Prime]

Just now, Naftal said:

Or just let Ash play the game and not look at boring cutscenes.

There has to be some drawback for using it, it's too powerful a cast in terms of Finisher damage to let us have complete freedom.

[Naftal]

Just now, Thaylien said:

There has to be some drawback for using it, it's too powerful a cast in terms of Finisher damage to let us have complete freedom.

The time to target all enemies you want is downside enough. He'd also lose invulnerability.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Just now, Naftal said:

The time to target all enemies you want is downside enough. He'd also lose invulnerability.

The reason that DE have kept the animations at all is because they're a limit on Ash being able to do one or the other; Bladestorm or run-and-gun, if we took that away entirely his press-4-to-win would be back and he'd have no drawbacks due to being able to mark from a place of safety and then unleash clones in much the same way he could just spam from a hidden place before. With the added buff of being able to shoot or cast other abilities while doing so.

Again, Bladestorm's a really powerful ability and has to cost the player something while the ability is active, not just make it a timer-release spam over an itchy-trigger spam. The marking system was designed to stop that exact spam usage, if it's completely negated by having no animations, the purpose is lost.

[Naftal]

1 minute ago, Thaylien said:

The reason that DE have kept the animations at all is because they're a limit on Ash being able to do one or the other; Bladestorm or run-and-gun, if we took that away entirely his press-4-to-win would be back and he'd have no drawbacks due to being able to mark from a place of safety and then unleash clones in much the same way he could just spam from a hidden place before. With the added buff of being able to shoot or cast other abilities while doing so.

Again, Bladestorm's a really powerful ability and has to cost the player something while the ability is active, not just make it a timer-release spam over an itchy-trigger spam. The marking system was designed to stop that exact spam usage, if it's completely negated by having no animations, the purpose is lost.

If you can't paint targets while the previous BS is happening, you can't be spamming. You'll have to do something during the time which increases interactivity of the frame by a long shot.

[rudman88]

Dude there is a 87 page of megathread.

few hundred comment of discontent and no effect

so what your puny thread can do ?

[Slaviar]

Issue is Ash is still same old trAsh, they simply nerfed his only strong skill.

[rudman88]

3 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Issue is Ash is still same old trAsh, they simply nerfed his only strong skill.

ash 1st skll dmg NORMAL

ash 2nd skill INVI weaker than loki but still usefull

ash 3rd skill teleport to do finisher ? OK better than LOKI

assh 4th skill DPS nerfed to target to do max dmg. ( x 3 activation to do max dmg and extra energy ) errrr y ?

all everybody want is just to be able to shoot and kill those guys ash attacking

but nope DE do extra work,

so you need to invi to do any of his skill safely except the 1st skill LOL

[TheSteelRat]

The Frame has been ruined IMHO.  The basics are the targeting has been replaced by a little minigame, and both bladestorm Damage and energy costs have increased per a hit. The bladestorm killing animations still take too long (even with a speed Dagger to increase animation speed) and really kill the flow of gameplay. And the bladestorm does not count as a stealth kill.

I really want to embrace the rework, and I have tried and tried to enjoy the frame, but I find it is at best a cumbersome Stealth killing frame, with some mobility, best used in solo.  Rather use Loki or Ivara now over Ash.

Gave up doing Public sortie exterminate, because too many players were spamming synoid simulor, and it made it really difficult to target my bladestorm.

Just did sortie 1 (Infested exterminate) and mainly used my Dagger, Fatal teleport and Bladestorm.  Used a max efficiency, Max duration build sacrificing range, and still having some power str.  The Frame needs increased duration on smoke screen, because I am having to use Arcane trickery, and Naramon shadow step to maintain my invisibility which reduces the cost of bladestorm. Until I was able to get Zenurik energy overflow working, and even with maximum efficiency, i was still having problems running out of energy. A few times i was in bladestorm targeting mode, and it wasn't until I realized i couldn't target anymore, and I lost the Smoke shadow, that I realized i was tapped out of energy, vulnerable and exposed.

The kick in the nuts for me was at the end, I got crap for focus affinity.  Normally i am able to get around 10k doing Adaro, Sedna exterminate with a stealth run using Ivara.  I cannot do that anymore with Ash

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

13 hours ago, askaninja said:

Many say that he was overpowered, however I would claim they did not play ash much, for if they had they would have experienced the disorientation and vulnerable moments post bladestorm.

I main Ash. His old 4th was overpowered. You can't argue that your personal disorientation issue (which I've never had a problem with) was a balancing feature to full-duration invulnerability, spammable, finisher damage nuke. Ash is still my main, and I love him more than ever.

I barely used his bladestorm before because it was broken, and a teleport build required more skill than that so it was actually fun. In his current state I have a high damage, good efficiency (even better with the cost bonus while invisible) high duration build that is extremely versatile and all of his abilities are worth using.

From your post it sounds like the drawbacks you're having is because you're still playing with the same mod setup and playstyle of a Bladestorm spam build. When you are swarmed by enemies you shouldn't be spamming your nuke anyway. You should be using Smokescreen (which you can now benefit from duration on) and move out of the way. If still needed, while still invisible you can now easily mark those swarming enemies while running away and release to shank them all and return to your new starting position. Also, it might also benefit you to turn up your camera turn speed if it's still on default. I did this a while back just out of preference but it's very helpful with Ash's new marking. You can easily mark more enemies in a faster time than before when you pan across the screen if you really need to.

He has always been powerful. That hasn't changed, they just made 1 ability less bothersome to the rest of their player base. With this rework he now has more diversified options with his nuke that can be useful for so much more than just killing a room full of enemies in a set radius, and with increased damage than before. 

One thing I could concede might be a nice change to his current fourth power is to cap the number of targets that he personally attacks to a percentage (probably rounded up) of his marked targets. For example, if I mark 6 targets once each then I only do the attack animation on 2 or 3 of them and the clones do the rest. Might be a compromise to the people who were asking for the World on Fire style Bladestorm (which would've been entirely too OP by itself, and boring as hell besides). That way he isn't tied up in animation quite as much, but he also isn't invulnerable as long.

 

[Slaviar]

4 minutes ago, rudman88 said:

ash 1st skll dmg NORMAL

BS does bleeding and armor ignoring much better. And there are better ways to remove armor.

5 minutes ago, rudman88 said:

ash 2nd skill INVI weaker than loki but still usefull

Bladestorm provides invincibility.

6 minutes ago, rudman88 said:

ash 3rd skill teleport to do finisher ? OK better than LOKI

There are frames much better at opening mobs to finishers. Excalibur and Inaros to name just two. Plus augment is buggy.

10 minutes ago, rudman88 said:

assh 4th skill DPS nerfed to target to do max dmg. ( x 3 activation to do max dmg and extra energy ) errrr y ?

all everybody want is just to be able to shoot and kill those guys ash attacking

but nope DE do extra work,

so you need to invi to do any of his skill safely except the 1st skill LOL

Blade Storm got nerfed hard, it's clunky and inefficient. But pre nerf it was his only strong ability which essentially was 1-3 combined into one, better skill. BS was overpowered and screamed for nerf but he got nothing in return even though he required full rework.