How acceptable is mission failure?

[Helljack84]

So this other topic got my gears grinding.

We all know the never run spy public trend, the never bring noobs to raids thing etc... because mission failure is horrible and completely unacceptable ,correct? 

Lua spy sortie...didn't get well received, but even in a lvl 5 spy mission it's not unlikely for players to get mad if someone fails a vault. 

This is not exactly about spy missions (they're a good example nonetheless) but all the mission types. Are we so accustomed to success that failure isn't an option anymore?

Could there be a way to make not winning everything (like 2 of 3 vaults) more acceptable?

 

[(XBOX)ATLongshot]

This is something I've never been able to wrap my head around in regards to WF.  Missions fail, did everyone always succeed getting Mario from one end of the map to the on there on the NES?  It's good to fail, it teaches what not to do. 

[Kawalorn]

I would guess that someone else screwing everything up is the bigger issue, not failure in general.

[FashionFrame]

I think it's just impatience, people want it done in one go, and have it over with. I do solo missions mostly because I hate players waiting for me, and also that I have absolutely terrible Internet 

[Eredoc]

I wouldn't say that LOSING is unacceptable.

I only run Spy missions with friends because they know what needs to be done, but for whatever reason in Public, there's no co-ordination you'll have someone being sneaky in vault A and then someone just walks in and triggers the alarm, to me that's the most annoying way to fail a mission, because I don't feel that failure should have been warranted.

That's also why when it comes to spy sortie, I run it Solo and only Solo because I do not trust anyone else anymore.

[Jakorak]

:/ When to your understanding, you have the knowledge and the power to complete a mission without difficulty.. and someone else causes a mission failure, it can feel like someone else is wasting your time

it can also be frustrating to observe public teammates display a glaring absence of knowledge of gamemode fundamentals. For example: i'm half convinced 80% of the playerbase doesn't know that the enemy efforts to capture a point on interception is centered on the computer terminals, as i frequently see interception pubs rush to an interception point being captured with ample time to stop the process, then proceed to kill a large number of enemies in the vicinity and the point is still captured by the enemy because they didn't target the 1 or 2 enemies that were actually taking the point.

I see this lack of knowledge reguarly even in syndicate missions and sortie mission from Mastery rank 22's, so experience isn't the issue, it's attention to detail.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Jakorak

[Imaru]

I can kinda understand if it's an alert or something else with a time limit, but beyond that I don't think there is room for rage if someone makes a mistake like that. 

[trunks013]

I help multiple tenno in mutiple ocasions.

Failure is kinda common.

Is it bad ?

Personaly i see it more like Daniel Madison. You learn way much from failure than from easy success.

Just my opinion.

[Implodingbanana]

1 minute ago, FashionFrame said:

I think it's just impatience, people want it done in one go, and have it over with. I do solo missions mostly because I hate players waiting for me, and also that I have absolutely terrible Internet 

yeah, same here. I only do solo missions because it's a lot more fun and it suits my pace and play style, seems everyone is obsessed with AOE abilities that all they do is run around from point A to B while only firing the occasional aoe shot. seems like a boring way to do things. I use public in sorties and missions i know i'll have issues with.

 

Failure can always be frustrating and thats ok, but people should understand that it doesn't matter in the long run.

[Weidro]

that's kinda a personal thing for every player

for me personally i absolutely hate it if i fail a fault and to me that is unacceptable
if a clan mate fails a fault we will joke about it but we wont flame each other

another example is jumping of the map
im more annoyed if i jump of the map than when i die
because i usually dont die and if i do i know i did my best to prevent it but when i jump of the map its just my own fault and i fcked up

[Blastedmoron]

Failure is always an option lol...

[FashionFrame]

2 minutes ago, Implodingbanana said:

yeah, same here. I only do solo missions because it's a lot more fun and it suits my pace and play style, seems everyone is obsessed with AOE abilities that all they do is run around from point A to B while only firing the occasional aoe shot. seems like a boring way to do things. I use public in sorties and missions i know i'll have issues with.

 

Failure can always be frustrating and thats ok, but people should understand that it doesn't matter in the long run.

I also do public sorties, except spies, but everything else I've never really seemed to have too much trouble 

[ChuckMaverick]

Failing a mission wouldn't be so bad if you didn't lose everything you'd gained except base affinity.

So you tripped the alarms and didn't get the spy rewards, why does that means all the resources and mods you picked up disappear as well?

[Blacksonfive]

Failure is part of learning, i can be frustrating but is completely organic and natural, it's just another mechanic in the game.

[Syvarin]

It's frustrating when someone else's actions cause your work to become worthless. I mean, I agree people take mission failure more seriously than they should, but if I successfully run two Lua spy vaults and my companions fail the third when I'm too far away to help, I'm going to be very annoyed.

[ArcaneSnowdrop]

I have less problems with failed spy missions than with people who don't use the coolant cores in a sabotage. It is intensely frustrating to try to squint through all that red smoke when there was a simple way to avoid it, and I don't actually think that using a core takes any longer than the normal core.

[Flaezon]

13 minutes ago, Jakorak said:

:/ When to your understanding, you have the knowledge and the power to complete a mission without difficulty.. and someone else causes a mission failure, it can feel like someone else is wasting your time

it can also be frustrating to observe public teammates display a glaring absence of knowledge of gamemode fundamentals. For example: i'm half convinced 80% of the playerbase doesn't know that the enemy efforts to capture a point on interception is centered on the computer terminals, as i frequently see interception pubs rush to an interception point being captured with ample time to stop the process, then proceed to kill a large number of enemies in the vicinity and the point is still captured by the enemy because they didn't target the 1 or 2 enemies that were actually taking the point.

I see this lack of knowledge reguarly even in syndicate missions and sortie mission from Mastery rank 22's, so experience isn't the issue, it's attention to detail.

Exactly , I mean not everything is get kills I know what you're talking about.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Venoct

[Skaleek]

If it was acceptable it wouldn't really be considered a failure now would it? Not to say failure isn't a necessary step towards success, but the game doesn't accept it as such so i'd say its not acceptable for progression, which is kinda weird actually. Losing everything you find in a mission because you fail a spy vault makes zero sense.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Skaleek

[KIREEK]

1 minute ago, Blacksonfive said:

Failure is part of learning, i can be frustrating but is completely organic and natural, it's just another mechanic in the game.

Some players never learn, but yes failing is also a way to learn the mechanics, we don't get to be vets on day 1, takes alot of practice and fails aswell

[S0V3REiGN]

For spy missions I can do every kind of mission from the easiest all the way to Lua. I do those sorties alone because I hate wasting my time, I have been on sorties where we failed it 3 straight times and it's frustrating because I know I should have just done them alone.

[bjorndadwarf]

I'm always impressed at how consistently, and in a variety of ways, that PUGs can fail Spy vaults.  I only ever do public ones as Relic missions, and I'd say it's an incredibly rarity to get all 3 vaults, unless I do all 3 of them myself. 

[Burritochu]

Failure is always an option.... unless it's one of those long dragged out sortie missions.

Other than that, failure only irks me when it's a stealth frame that triggers the alarms in a spy mission and bails either right away or after the data is lost.

[ArchPhaeton]

11 minutes ago, ArcaneSnowdrop said:

I have less problems with failed spy missions than with people who don't use the coolant cores in a sabotage. It is intensely frustrating to try to squint through all that red smoke when there was a simple way to avoid it, and I don't actually think that using a core takes any longer than the normal core.

Why would you even squint your eyes, having a minimap to navigate? Also fire is quicker and simpler, which is why most people go for that, instead of failing the pipes defense (it happens)

[(XBOX)CyBirdNetic]

32 minutes ago, Helljack84 said:

So this other topic got my gears grinding.

We all know the never run spy public trend, the never bring noobs to raids thing etc... because mission failure is horrible and completely unacceptable ,correct? 

Lua spy sortie...didn't get well received, but even in a lvl 5 spy mission it's not unlikely for players to get mad if someone fails a vault. 

This is not exactly about spy missions (they're a good example nonetheless) but all the mission types. Are we so accustomed to success that failure isn't an option anymore?

Could there be a way to make not winning everything (like 2 of 3 vaults) more acceptable?

 

I take failure as a chance to reflect on the actions of myself and my team, and find a way to work around certain shortcomings to ensure a successful second attempt.

[LabMan95]

Failure isn't bad if everyone gives it their all. But what makes me upset is failing because of reasons out of my control. Examples of this in the past week:

Doing Law of Retribution hijack and standing on the pads correctly but your dumb teammate driving it into the electricity 4 times after telling him not to

Joining a kuva flood when the collector is 7/8 and we haven't collected any with a team of nyx, banshee, and Oberon are all downed

Playing a sortie rescue mission and your entire team goes down right as the door opens

Failing a meso fissure capture mission because you're the only one chasing the objective with weak weapons while your teammates that can one shot him are lagging behind

I don't get upset unless I get something really good in mission (like the raid where I got my last brakk part), but I could see how people would get upset