How acceptable is mission failure?

[Forcereborn]

I run Spy, Sabotage and Rescue sorties alone because in those modes enemies don't need to be handled, I can just focus on my objective and speed-run. For Spy missions, the possibility of failing in public is an additional reason. I can still fail by myself in the Uranus rooms, but in any other tileset I'm good enough, so I see no reason to hinder my progress by doing them in public. I don't mind failing, but I won't waste my time willingly.

[Celthric317]

I think spy missions in their current state are too easy (Yes, Lua too) with the sole exception of Uranus. 

[TARINunit9]

51 minutes ago, Helljack84 said:

This is not exactly about spy missions (they're a good example nonetheless) but all the mission types. Are we so accustomed to success that failure isn't an option anymore?

Could there be a way to make not winning everything (like 2 of 3 vaults) more acceptable?

In sorties MAYBE. Depends on if that would cheapen the difficulty

In normal spy mission? No. Pretty much never. Three undetected vaults or nothing

And it's a mentality I agree with for a reason: loot. Fail the vault, you don't get the loot from that vault. Loot that could very well include a relic. Relics we need to get prime stuff

To a lesser extent, affinity is another reason. Three undetected vaults, plus extraction bonus, is enough affinity to get most weapons from 28->30 without booster. People trying to install some formas would much rather abort mission and do it solo if you fail a vault (or even if you just get detected) because that means much less affinity for them

[Blade_Wolf_16]

In yesterday's Sortie 2, we had an Interception with corrosive-enhanced ennemies, and the first time I tried it I took Nyx in a full squad, with a Valkyr, a Nidus and a Rhino. I died so many times due to my connection (1200 ping) and the difficulty that when we finished the mission, I just said in tchat "gg guys, you were awesome", since I was most of the time a pain for them. 

But, like I said, ping was about 1200... and I got the message : "Failed to update account" or something like that. In other words, the mission didn't count. I was pissed, of course.

Then I retried 2 other times and failed again. Then with Valkyr, with two Rhinos, and we failed tremendously. This mission was really getting on my nerves...

 

Than, I tried a last attempt with my brother, me with Slova and him with Titania, and a player with the best looking Nyx I've ever seen (I think is ing was -Mozzy- or something like that) joined and we nailed that mission without any problem. 

 

Guess what, with this Sortie (wich was my brother first one ever) we got a Pistol Riven ^^.

Failure is bad only if it makes you loose the sight of what's important, like respecting other players, enjoying the game and staying positive. That's my opinion, but everybody has a different perception of failure and we can't really dictate how people should think.

[Kaotyke]

This will raise your tolerance for failure:

http://playunfairmario.net/

[Ryunokage]

There's nothing innately wrong with failure.

In the examples that the OP cited though, the issue seems more likely to be stupidity instead. That is something i have very little tolerance for.

By the time a player reaches the point in the game where sorties become available, they should have already been exposed to all of warframes various mission types, barring the raids, and had the opportunity to learn how to do them.

If by that time a person STILL can't run a vault, they're uselessly incompetent until proven otherwise. I generally avoid even trying to start on a vault if i see people running idiot-pandering load outs, like wof-embers or SS-mirages.

[SeaUrchins]

Fail proof missions are a good way to make any game boring.

[Ciaus]

Spy missions? 
Not. At. All. 

Just don't go into the damn vault if you don't know what to do. And if you get in and no-one knows, everyone should make it clear up front. I don't mind doing all 3 vaults while people sit in a corridor killing s***. 

Mission types like defence where a bit of bad luck and a high level corpus tech can screw you instantly, that's fine. It happens. 

[Miser_able]

If it was an honest mistake I get over it and move on but if it was deliberate or caused by purposeful ignorance I can get a bit salty. But that only applies to others mistakes, if it was my fault a get upset for a little while but get over it and learn not to do it again.

[Ailissa]

2 hours ago, Eredoc said:

you'll have someone being sneaky in vault A and then someone just walks in and triggers the alarm,

 

I've had that happen so many times to the point where I have to solo spy missions.

 

It's not the failing of missions I mind it's just that particular thing. If someone is already in the room, stay the hell out.

[notlamprey]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)ATLongshot said:

This is something I've never been able to wrap my head around in regards to WF.  Missions fail, did everyone always succeed getting Mario from one end of the map to the on there on the NES?  It's good to fail, it teaches what not to do. 

"Failure" is only useful if something is learned, and Warframe is absolutely horrible at letting players learn from failure.

Because of that, I'm not at all surprised when people get upset at failure in WF.

[Don_T_Shoot]

3 hours ago, FashionFrame said:

I also do public sorties, except spies, but everything else I've never really seemed to have too much trouble 

I'm less tolerant of my own mess ups.   Private spy missions, public everything else.   Because...I'm going to fail those spy missions a few times before I get it right and I'd rather not drag anyone else down with my while I'm tripping over lasers.

Getting much better though.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Don_T_Shoot

[(PSN)robotwars7]

depends on the circumstances. if it's a mission I'm doing for the sake of it, or to level gear I'll tolerate screw-ups, both from myself and my team, but if it's something I'm trying to do for a decent reward, or it's something out of my control, then I may get a teensy weensy bit psychotically raging. even then though, I just give the screen an earful like the olden days, I never take it out on the team in squad chat, but safe to say if you think you've done something that's annoyed me, you're probably right.

3 hours ago, LabMan95 said:

Joining a kuva flood when the collector is 7/8 and we haven't collected any with a team of nyx, banshee, and Oberon are all downed

this reminds me of yesterday when I was with positively the worst player I've seen yet. he was a Loki, and he didn't use Invis, was literally going down 3 seconds after his last revive, didn't even know how to catch Kuva... on the most WIDE OPEN room you can get on the outpost Tileset.  I seriously don't get how anyone can fail at Kuva Missions, it's literally as simple as bring a CC frame and keep your eyes peeled. hardly rocket science.

[Guy6869]

4 hours ago, Helljack84 said:

So this other topic got my gears grinding.

We all know the never run spy public trend, the never bring noobs to raids thing etc... because mission failure is horrible and completely unacceptable ,correct? 

Lua spy sortie...didn't get well received, but even in a lvl 5 spy mission it's not unlikely for players to get mad if someone fails a vault. 

This is not exactly about spy missions (they're a good example nonetheless) but all the mission types. Are we so accustomed to success that failure isn't an option anymore?

Could there be a way to make not winning everything (like 2 of 3 vaults) more acceptable?

 

I think its way more of an issue on higher level missions, because using one of your example of raids, no one wants to spend their time going through say the JV raid getting to the end then failing because someone had no idea where to shove the spores, or where they needed to go to kill the nerve, so I would mostly say it is worst when there are some actually good items on the line, eg arcanes from raids, and stuff like bloodrush and covert lethality from spy's. But I would also say that it might come from no one wanting to have they're hard work ruined by someone else just running in without a clue, like in spy's, you might go through the trouble of doing it stealthed and then a pug joins and charges in triggering all the vault alarms, it feels bad man, Really Really bad.

[Guy6869]

3 hours ago, Ciaus said:

Spy missions? 
Not. At. All. 

Just don't go into the damn vault if you don't know what to do. And if you get in and no-one knows, everyone should make it clear up front. I don't mind doing all 3 vaults while people sit in a corridor killing s***. 

Mission types like defence where a bit of bad luck and a high level corpus tech can screw you instantly, that's fine. It happens. 

Damn tech's, no amount of armour or health will save you from them.

[Ciaus]

Just now, Guy6869 said:

Damn tech's, no amount of armour or health will save you from them.

Max strength ice chroma with vex and ward up. 
TTK in level 30 nightmare? About a second and a half of sustained fire. 
How do I know this? Let's just say today was a salty day for me :P

[(PSN)H3x3wahn]

UNNACCEPTABLE!!!! *whoa-oh-oh-ah-ah-ah-ah! yeah-eah!*

[Guy6869]

10 minutes ago, Ciaus said:

Max strength ice chroma with vex and ward up. 
TTK in level 30 nightmare? About a second and a half of sustained fire. 
How do I know this? Let's just say today was a salty day for me :P

YUP that sortie was... FUN... definitely... FUN.

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Francis_Boudreau said:

UNNACCEPTABLE!!!! *whoa-oh-oh-ah-ah-ah-ah! yeah-eah!*

Is that you Vay Hek, we told you to stop breaking the fourth wall. :P

Edited January 11, 2017 by Guy6869
Condensing multiple posts into one.

[Ciaus]

Just now, Guy6869 said:

YUP that sortie was... FUN... definitely... FUN.

Every corpus sortie. Best is when the tech is in two overlapping bubbles. #gitrickt
You can even get TRAPPED in a room with no console on Corpus rescue lockdown. 
It's great. 

[Zepp_]

How acceptable?

PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE.  100%.  COMPLETELY.

Is that clear enough?

[(PSN)H3x3wahn]

1 hour ago, Guy6869 said:

YUP that sortie was... FUN... definitely... FUN.

Is that you Vay Hek, we told you to stop breaking the fourth wall. :P

No, it was a reference to a youtube video.

[(PSN)SKRIMP-N-GRITZ]

I'm alright with failure. I still can't do the wall latch Lua spy vault. Since cache's don't really matter anymore, aside from nitians, 2 outta 3 is fine. In fact, zero caches is fine. I mean, it's just a game... right? Wait..

[Ciaus]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)SKRIMP-N-GRITZ said:

I still can't do the wall latch Lua spy vault.

Hit the time warp, go back to the future (lel), and go around ^^
Just make sure to have invis or a good 1-shot weapon. 

[(PSN)SKRIMP-N-GRITZ]

2 minutes ago, Ciaus said:

Hit the time warp, go back to the future (lel), and go around ^^
Just make sure to have invis or a good 1-shot weapon. 

I'll have to look into this. Thanks, unless you're pulling my leg. ;)

[Lanadra]

People don't like to waste time and effort, especially not if it's one person botching it for everyone.

I don't typically care when one or two of the three vaults fail when there's no specific requirement, but you'd still rather get them all, people want to do things in the best way they can get it done.