I truly hate Rivens.

[Hannah-Eliz]

Riven Mods... a set of mods that push old weapons to a newer level...

Ever since they were bought into the game I will say I haven't played nearly as much Warframe. I gave the Mods a try I really did but obtaining them, kuva farming and rerolling the mods... it's just not fun.

I honestly miss the feeling of going off and farming for better mods from certain enemies because it could mean I am killing low levels on Venus or I might be doing a Nightmare Defence on Pluto.

Riven were not a good thing to add to the game at all and there are better ways to buff old weapons by adding weapon specific mods to syndicates, reworked boss drop tables, events, baro, void, new tilesets... anything! 

This system makes me want to not play anymore which is a shame because a few years ago I was recommending a lot of people to try out Warframe... 

Anyway thanks for the years of enjoyment and good luck everyone!

[WretchedMonarch]

Quiette Shy sums up perfectly how I feel about weaker weapons. Isn't tweaking some numbers a much simpler solution?

 

 

[Hannah-Eliz]

I agree for a lot of weapons that numbers should be tweaked... 

Sicarus Prime... I used to use that a lot when it came out and it's got a lovely design but it's stats don't even compare to some primes these days.

Problem is that a lot of weapons were released when content was easier so stat numbers were much lower but they never adjusted values as they released newer content.

[Extroah]

As i keep saying in other Riven Threads, the problem with Rivens is NOT that they exist, their problem is that they add procentual benefits rather than raw numbers. Like, when a Weapon has 1.5% Crit Chance and you roll +250% Crit Chance it will still never Crit, ever. Whereas if they would give you +12.5x Crit Chance, that would be a different topic and solve so many issues.

[Hannah-Eliz]

Nope. I don't like the method to obtaining Rivens, I don't like Kuva Farming... the whole process is an RNG and Grinding Nightmare. 

It's just not fun and when something isn't fun I simply stop doing it. 

[ashrah]

game is not  close fun like before...i just dont feel game like before and wen  that happens to me its pretty much lose any interest..stop farming cz no point...we doing same all over and over...

[Tyrian3k]

2 hours ago, novaliszero said:

Quiette Shy sums up perfectly how I feel about weaker weapons. Isn't tweaking some numbers a much simpler solution?

It is and always was, but there's a lot of white knights who say that it's hard work to change numbers and we don't know how hard it is because we don't work in the field.

Meanwhile I can change the damage of all weapons in HL2 via console commands...

If a weapon has problem with its design, that's a whole different issue, but changing numbers is easy as pie.

Same stuff goes for all the useless mods, but we can't possibly buff them to a useful level.

[Coaa]

You say that you miss going off and farming for new mods but rivens aren't much different. You farm kuva to TURN IT INTO a new mod. I don't understand the gripe with them. They balanced the high tier weapons with weak disposition so it doesn't make a massive impact, yet really crappy weapons can get some stupid good rolls now.

It has brought up 3 weapons I never would have touched before and now I never unequip them. I get that them tweaking weapons would be better, but look at how long it takes them to do a pass on 1-2 weapons, then they sometimes keep tweaking it for a week or longer after. With rivens, it's a universal across the board. Setup a disposition and then bam. You cover all of the weapons across the board.

It would have taken them years to tweak all weapons, and by then new metas would have been formed, another set of power creep etc. We are talking about 100s of weapons here.

@ashrah ok how is this ANY different from before? This game has never changed, it's always been farming the same things over and over and over. Not a single thing changed except we got a new layer of farm over and over and over. It's almost like people suddenly realize what the game is about and have a gripe with it when I knew this in my first week of trying the game.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Coaa

[Troll_Logic]

5 hours ago, novaliszero said:

Quiette Shy sums up perfectly how I feel about weaker weapons. Isn't tweaking some numbers a much simpler solution?

Tweaking the numbers fix the problem for everyone immediately.

Riven mods make players play the game.  And make players farm kuva.  And make player use that stupid operator mode.  And that's the point.

[Tyrian3k]

45 minutes ago, Coaa said:

You say that you miss going off and farming for new mods but rivens aren't much different. You farm kuva to TURN IT INTO a new mod. I don't understand the gripe with them. They balanced the high tier weapons with weak disposition so it doesn't make a massive impact, yet really crappy weapons can get some stupid good rolls now.

And what abou the weapons that stay garbage, even with a very powerful Riven mod? And why should we either pray to RNGesus or pay plat to get some sense of *balance* into the game?

46 minutes ago, Coaa said:

It has brought up 3 weapons I never would have touched before and now I never unequip them. I get that them tweaking weapons would be better, but look at how long it takes them to do a pass on 1-2 weapons, then they sometimes keep tweaking it for a week or longer after. With rivens, it's a universal across the board. Setup a disposition and then bam. You cover all of the weapons across the board.

It would have taken them years to tweak all weapons, and by then new metas would have been formed, another set of power creep etc. We are talking about 100s of weapons here.

Ah, of course. Changing that 10 on the crit chance of the Sicarus Prime into a 20 must have taken them hours of their day! Oh, who am I kidding! It clearly took them days or even weeks.

No, it would only take them years because they keep not doing it until more and more weapons pile up. And don't give me the "they have to put thought into it" excuse. They clearly showed how much thought goes into these things when they released the Rakta Ballistica and the Kohm in a completely broken state, but even then, it is not that hard to see a weapon that is weak and simply make it stronger.

 

58 minutes ago, Coaa said:

@ashrah ok how is this ANY different from before? This game has never changed, it's always been farming the same things over and over and over. Not a single thing changed except we got a new layer of farm over and over and over. It's almost like people suddenly realize what the game is about and have a gripe with it when I knew this in my first week of trying the game.

It has never had this many layers of RNG put into the acquisition of one single item. Even farming Mesa was a cakewalk compared to getting a Riven you want.

I got a Riven for the Stug, put 6 forma into it and guess what? It's still S#&$.

[Fugana]

Noone likes riven mods :)

[Coaa]

8 minutes ago, Tyrian3k said:

And what abou the weapons that stay garbage, even with a very powerful Riven mod? And why should we either pray to RNGesus or pay plat to get some sense of *balance* into the game?

Ah, of course. Changing that 10 on the crit chance of the Sicarus Prime into a 20 must have taken them hours of their day! Oh, who am I kidding! It clearly took them days or even weeks.

No, it would only take them years because they keep not doing it until more and more weapons pile up. And don't give me the "they have to put thought into it" excuse. They clearly showed how much thought goes into these things when they released the Rakta Ballistica and the Kohm in a completely broken state, but even then, it is not that hard to see a weapon that is weak and simply make it stronger.

 

It has never had this many layers of RNG put into the acquisition of one single item. Even farming Mesa was a cakewalk compared to getting a Riven you want.

I got a Riven for the Stug, put 6 forma into it and guess what? It's still S#&$.

Please you're kidding if you don't think there hasn't been rng since the beginning. Key farming for a week or two PRAYING that the single prime part would drop on the rotation you wanted. Let's not forget you had the layer of getting the keys on top before you could even start the next layer.

I need mods and farm where they drop for sometimes up to a month or more until the mod finally drops. I farm events 100s of times to get the rare mod that drops. Let's not forget derelicts for corrupt mods if we're talking about layers. I needed to farm the key type I wanted. Buy the blueprint to now make the derelict key of the type I wanted. Farm more keys to make the keys to the vaults. Attempt to get a full group with other people that each had one of the separate keys. Find the vault and after all of that PRAY PRAY PRAY that it's something useful. If it wasn't useful or what I needed/wanted, I now needed to farm all the keys again, make them all again, get groups again. If this isn't a layered rng approach I don't know what is lol.

There has always been huge rng in this game. I have never gotten anything of value in this game that didn't take a huge amount of farming and time investment UNLESS rng decided to be nice for once. I truly don't see rivens any more of a time investment and rngfest then what has occurred many times before.

Also on your point about the sicarus, this is why we CAN reroll them. If someone is dumb enough to take a non crit weapon, get all crit rolls, then come on the forums and complain that they got a useless roll / riven then I don't know what to tell them. Of course if you focus on the crappiest part of a weapon, roll a riven that enhances the crap then its still crap. I don't see the point here.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Coaa

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

Alot of those NEGATIVE damage/multishot should also go to hell ....i may be ok with a faction negative dmg or higher recoils and slower reload speed ( to an extent ) but monster negatives for so called weaker guns that was supposed to benefit most from those jack &#! rivens is the 2nd biggest troll in the face...( and i agree some weapons are simply beyond salvation anyway )

first troll is the word COMMON next to RIVEN in the sorties reward table

 

[Tyrian3k]

4 minutes ago, Coaa said:

Please you're kidding if you don't think there hasn't been rng since the beginning. Key farming for a week or two PRAYING that the single prime part would drop on the rotation you wanted. Let's not forget you had the layer of getting the keys on top before you could even start the next layer.

I need mods and farm where they drop for sometimes up to a month or more until the mod finally drops. I farm events 100s of times to get the rare mod that drops. Let's not forget derelicts for corrupt mods if we're talking about layers. I needed to farm the key type I wanted. Buy the blueprint to now make the derelict key of the type I wanted. Farm more keys to make the keys to the vaults. Attempt to get a full group with other people that each had one of the separate keys. Find the vault and after all of that PRAY PRAY PRAY that it's something useful. If it wasn't useful or what I needed/wanted, I now needed to farm all the keys again, make them all again, get groups again. If this isn't a layered rng approach I don't know what is lol.

There has always been huge rng in this game. I have never gotten anything of value in this game that didn't take a huge amount of farming and time investment UNLESS rng decided to be nice for once. I truly don't see rivens any more of a time investment and rngfest then what has occurred many times before.

Also on your point about the sicarus, this is why we CAN reroll them. If someone is dumb enough to take a non crit weapon, get all crit rolls, then come on the forums and complain that they got a useless roll / riven then I don't know what to tell them. Of course if you focus on the crappiest part of a weapon, roll a riven that enhances the crap then its still crap. I don't see the point here.

Oh, maybe I remember this wrong, but I don't remember being limited to one roll for a prime part per day. Getting a Riven you want alone is already at least as hard as getting any prime before that, but then you also have to pray to RNGesus yet again that all the four stars... I mean stats align in a useful way without having to spend 200k kuva on it.

With the Riven System, you have the choice to either possibly spend years without getting a Riven you want or buy one.

And using RNG to balance your game is an awful choice to say the least.

[-N7-Leonhart]

I positively love the Rivens though. And I can say that I have played Warframe quite a lot more every since they came out.

So you see, there are more sides to it.

Edited January 12, 2017 by -BM-Leonhart

[Coaa]

7 minutes ago, Tyrian3k said:

Oh, maybe I remember this wrong, but I don't remember being limited to one roll for a prime part per day. Getting a Riven you want alone is already at least as hard as getting any prime before that, but then you also have to pray to RNGesus yet again that all the four stars... I mean stats align in a useful way without having to spend 200k kuva on it.

With the Riven System, you have the choice to either possibly spend years without getting a Riven you want or buy one.

And using RNG to balance your game is an awful choice to say the least.

Rivens are only a problem because they are still new. Prices are insane because that one person with an insane Vectis riven might be one of very few that have it at the moment.

They are a common drop in sorties (I know "common haha") but in due time they will flood the market, it'll be very easy to find what is needed very cheap or just trade for what you want. It's just the massive rush of new, shiny, strong that people go absolute foaming at the mouth over to be the first. It will not surprise me at all if in a good 6 months that they are just everywhere and no one complains about it anymore.

The devs have already made it way better by putting a kuva cap on the rerolls at least. I had a few of my rivens well over 20k to reroll and I was still going farming along to get what I wanted. That is my favorite part of rivens personally. Yes it's rng based but at least we do have control over being able to get exactly what we want in it. We never really had that choice before, you got a mod and it was what it was.

@-BM-Leonhart I couldn't agree more. I know people typically come on the forums just to complain but I love rivens so much. They have given me so much more to do. For once I'm not just farming relics to make plat and kuva I don't need just to do it. I have something to work for, although it can be frustrating as hell sometimes. But man when I get that roll I want....then bring a crap weapon into endgame and destroy with it side by side with the tigris primes and tonkors and do more dmg....that makes it worth it.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Coaa

[(PSN)KnowLedge]

I'm digging everything about Rivens except the stupid reroll prices that aren't capped. Along with the dump 15 mod capacity. However Rivens brought me back to this game and here I am deeply entrenched in it again. I have received some amazing boltor, cernos, and soma mods so far. Thanks DE for giving the game new light!

Edited January 12, 2017 by (PS4)KnowLedge

[erny0507]

I feel the same, rivens are bad in so many form. I dont even want to do the sorties cause im close to the free limit, if i get more, ill have to buy with plat slots. Many could say i should sell, i cant really my potato pc doesnt allow me to use the market and the game at the same time, or erase some, god no i have wait and farm kuva for them so much i just cant either. 

Riven in general are a bad addition to the game and their layer on layer of exponential RNG just make them undesired.

[Coaa]

39 minutes ago, erny0507 said:

I feel the same, rivens are bad in so many form. I dont even want to do the sorties cause im close to the free limit, if i get more, ill have to buy with plat slots. Many could say i should sell, i cant really my potato pc doesnt allow me to use the market and the game at the same time, or erase some, god no i have wait and farm kuva for them so much i just cant either. 

Riven in general are a bad addition to the game and their layer on layer of exponential RNG just make them undesired.

You don't need market up to sell it. Unless they added all of the riven variables to it (I haven't checked) you can only list unveiled rivens for sale on it. Typically if I roll a riven good i'll post it once in trade and get spammed immediately. Or if I don't feel like working on kuva and good rolls for some i'll just throw it up in the PC trade section of the forums and people will contact me.

Even really bad rolled rivens for decent weapons sell for a few 100 plat and you don't have to do any work with it. That's enough for quite a few extra slots.

[Volinus7]

I asked for its removal in the first day...

[erny0507]

Just now, Volinus7 said:

I asked for its removal in the first day...

yeah lol, but now is imposible so much people has spend plat on those... DE would not erase them.

[Snib]

9 hours ago, Hannah-Eliz said:

I agree for a lot of weapons that numbers should be tweaked... 

Sicarus Prime... I used to use that a lot when it came out and it's got a lovely design but it's stats don't even compare to some primes these days.

Say what? Sicarus Prime was already buffed and deals about as much damage as Lex Prime now, i.e. a lot. Of course DE forgot they buffed it and thus it has got one of the strongest riven dispositions in game (whereas Lex Prime has the weakest), making for an extremely OP combination if you can get your hands on one. At least for the time being.

PS: But yes, I would prefer for weapons to be balanced properly rather than through this RNG-driven riven nonsense. Also Kuva farming is the most boring in the game by a long shot.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Snib

[Autongnosis]

As i said in another riven hate thread.

First, buffing all older weapons for everybody without it becoming problematic from a progression standpoint IS a long work, and would at minimum require DE to scratch together a dedicated team from other places that, tbh, need way more work.

In addition, Rivens provide several incentives for players to actually play and some content - play sorties, play Kuva missions - and keep the playerbase engaged. While a simple buff does not provide any content at all.

Last but not least, Rivens have the plus from a business standpoint of creating plat inflation and thus generating more income for DE.

[(PSN)SKRIMP-N-GRITZ]

I love Rivens, and I understand all the arguments against them. All I wish was that they fix kuva farming so re-rolling wasn't such a boring endeavor. 

[ArbitUHM]

I like Riven mods. If you use them as intended, i.e. get a Riven from a sortie then go craft that weapon, they expand your viable arsenal choices by quite a bit. If you settle for something less than optimal in terms of stats, you can come up with fun combinations particularly with the massive amounts of punch-through and reload speed you can get. I do try to get +damage or +elemental, though. That's been taking me somewhere between 2 to 10 rolls.

If you play sorties expecting a Riven for your eight forma favorite weapons and then farm your face off getting 100,000 kuva so you can get the most optimal optimized maximum +damage +multishot roll, you'll probably hate them. 

Some weapons still need tweaks to their base stats and/or mechanics, though. I can understand DE's reluctance because rebalancing old weapons doesn't offer much opportunity to monetize their work, and has the potential to take money out of their own wallet if a rebalanced older weapon manages to overshadow the latest batch of weapons. 

(I'd make Riven mods a little easier to get, though)

6 minutes ago, Snib said:

Say what? Sicarus Prime was already buffed and deals about as much damage as Lex Prime now, i.e. a lot. Of course DE forgot they buffed it and thus it has got one of the strongest riven dispositions in game (whereas Lex Prime has the weakest), making for an extremely OP combination if you can get your hands on one. At least for the time being.

PS: But yes, I would prefer for weapons to be balanced properly rather than through this RNG-driven riven nonsense. Also Kuva farming is the most boring in the game by a long shot.

Sicarus Prime hype isn't warranted IMO. 120 damage per burst as compared to 150 for the Lex Prime, and SP has worse crit stats (20 vs 25%). Plus it's a burst weapon, which is mostly a downside IMO. It's significantly worse without a Riven mod. The only things it has going for it is it can do a decent job at applying status and taking down nullifier shields; otherwise Lex Prime is better. 

Honestly, the SP is good example of why just buffing stuff numerically doesn't do a good job of fixing a weapon. People are just going to choose whatever weapon is statistically superior, and there is still too much overlap with the Lex P and Vaykor Marelok for the SP to make a niche for itself. Riven mods at least give that sexy reload animation a reason for existing, and the small supply of Riven mods for the weapon ensures that it doesn't become the new meta weapon like Lex P/Marelok did.

You could rework the weapon mechanically so it is truly unique, but now we're talking about significantly more effort than just punching some new numbers into an excel sheet. So... Riven mods. It's not the most ideal solution from the player perspective (not by a long shot) but it does serve its purpose pretty well.