FAZZWARFRAME Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) There was a lot of mentioning about the low usage for raids, attributing to both the difficulty and lack luster rewards. I would however say that accessibility issue is as equal if not a bigger factor. To put this simply: Having to socialize with people in order to get a group together to start a mission is too much of a barrier of entry The thing that I love about star map 3.0 and transforming void prime farming to relic farming is that it redistributes player concentration and spread them across missions. Now I can go into public missions and expect to have other people playing with me all the time, as opposed to how most of the missions being a wasteland in 2.0. I love playing with other players but absolutely hate having to find / host groups for a specific mission, I just want to jump into public, play a game, without feeling the pressure to have to make friends. I think the key system for raid and OD missions are out dated, just make everything public so people can try it out and goof around. For serious players they can still do the private group. Edited January 16, 2017 by FAZZWARFRAME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WetPollito Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Public Raid I don't think so!, for only one reason, in a few step u need work together, second part, when you need link symbols with pads, if 1 player doesn't know that u can't finish it.... about Orokin Derrelict could be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)maso_sage-mode Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 the key system for the raid could be changed yes. Raid publics ? Have you at least watched raid videos ? you need 3 friends plus you to finish lor. same people for jv. Can you imagine public raids ? WIth mr 5 people with lv 0 guns and people afk and leeching all steps ? I personallly dont wanna waste time, i need 10/15 min for lor and 20 for jv. Do not want to loose hours on these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vastarov Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Well yeah, Derelict feels aamof a bit odd, compared to chart 3.0... I guess I'd like it to be addressed in the not-so-distant future, in order to make it more 3.0-like. Raids are instead a completely different thing, imo. You CAN'T do raids randomly with pubs, not ever - not really. You need a bit of "schooling" before raiding, and the fault is not even in how the raids are explained/presented in-game: it's a community problem, the bang bang pew pew derive that warframe took -oh!- about 2 years ago, just rushing in from room to room obliterating everything... but that doesn't work in a raid, of course, where you need to absolve tasks and shizzle...Tl;dr: Derelict needs changing; raids instead can't be played randomly. Edited January 17, 2017 by Vastarov I guess I can't write "S#&$" on the forums. The bot doesn't really understand the difference between cursing, intercalary and slang. Meh! :I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkvramp Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Make OD Public! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DxAdder Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, FAZZWARFRAME said: There was a lot of mentioning about the low usage for raids, attributing to both the difficulty and lack luster rewards. I would however say that accessibility issue is as equal if not a bigger factor. To put this simply: Having to socialize with people in order to get a group together to start a mission is too much of a barrier of entry The thing that I love about star map 3.0 and transforming void prime farming to relic farming is that it redistributes player concentration and spread them across missions. Now I can go into public missions and expect to have other people playing with me all the time, as opposed to how most of the missions being a wasteland in 2.0. I love playing with other players but absolutely hate having to find / host groups for a specific mission, I just want to jump into public, play a game, without feeling the pressure to have to make friends. I think the key system for raid and OD missions are out dated, just make everything public so people can try it out and goof around. For serious players they can still do the private group. I guess you have never done PUG raids in World of Warcraft... god what train wrecks those are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliifghjkl Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Public OD is a good idea IMO, but atleast make it so that its still need keys to join in. Public Raids? Dont think so, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAZZWARFRAME Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, DxAdder said: I guess you have never done PUG raids in World of Warcraft... god what train wrecks those are. I have never done public raids in WOW (actually I've never played WOW). Similar to what many have said, yes it could be a train wreck (I imagine it will turn into something like sortie spy public, but worst?), but at least make it accessible so people can goof around. Serious players can still organize private groups; blocking player access behind mission keys and forcing them to "talk to people" is the point I'm trying to get across, not the raid itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reifnir Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, FAZZWARFRAME said: I imagine it will turn into something like sortie spy public, but worst?), but at least make it accessible so people can goof around. Not until Warframe gets a kick player and/or vote kick function. Trials (aka raids) in their current form are way too prone to griefing, one mischievous/drunk/high player will turn the whole thing into living hell for the rest of the team. Considering that keys are consumed upon entry and take some time and resources to build, no one wants to risk a PuG raid group until the whole things gets better management tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckMaverick Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Removing the need to communicate, to get into content that needs communication to complete, sounds like a really bad idea. However, I'm totally on board for removing keys from the Orokin Derelict and opening it up for public access. The only problem I can see with that is if you don't coordinate with your squad mates beforehand then you'll end up with a mess of dragon keys (if everyone is even carrying one) and no one having an extinguished key, possibly bleeding key as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachles Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Derelicts should be part of the star chart in the same way the Void now is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagamilight123 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, FAZZWARFRAME said: There was a lot of mentioning about the low usage for raids, attributing to both the difficulty and lack luster rewards. I would however say that accessibility issue is as equal if not a bigger factor. To put this simply: Having to socialize with people in order to get a group together to start a mission is too much of a barrier of entry The thing that I love about star map 3.0 and transforming void prime farming to relic farming is that it redistributes player concentration and spread them across missions. Now I can go into public missions and expect to have other people playing with me all the time, as opposed to how most of the missions being a wasteland in 2.0. I love playing with other players but absolutely hate having to find / host groups for a specific mission, I just want to jump into public, play a game, without feeling the pressure to have to make friends. I think the key system for raid and OD missions are out dated, just make everything public so people can try it out and goof around. For serious players they can still do the private group. You have to "socialize" in a online cooperative game .... totally insane concept . If you use public option you will not going to find nobody ... pubs will be a disaster with people joining having 0 idea what to do or what frames use . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckMaverick Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Yagamilight123 said: If you use public option you will not going to find nobody ... pubs will be a disaster with people joining having 0 idea what to do or what frames use . Not to mention that public missions don't give you the chance to coordinate which frames you're bringing, so you could find yourself in a raid with 8x Trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 OD has no reason to be locked now-a-days. Raids should stay locked because its just saving pubs from themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Before Raids can be opened to matchmaking, they need a complete rework from the ground up. I've been sayin' it for a while now: Raids are in dire straights. We need new content if we want to have any hope of increasing the playerbase, but we need a sizeable playerbase in order to justify DE spending time and resources on new content. Meanwhile, the existing content is getting older by the day. I honestly believe we need a Raid 2.0, but the odds of it happening at this point are approximately nil. Edited January 17, 2017 by DeltaPhantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckMaverick Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said: Before Raids can be opened to matchmaking, they need a complete rework from the ground up. I've been sayin' it for a while now: Raids are in dire straights. We need new content if we want to have any hope of increasing the playerbase, but we need a sizeable playerbase in order to justify DE spending time and resources on new content. Meanwhile, the existing content is getting older by the day. I honestly believe we need a Raid 2.0, but the odds of it happening at this point are approximately nil. If raids are just dumbed-down missions that you can successfully beat with any random selection of 8 frames, then they're not the end-game content that I'd want them to be. While they may well benefit from some more attention, opening them up to public matchmaking is not the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said: If raids are just dumbed-down missions that you can successfully beat with any random selection of 8 frames, then they're not the end-game content that I'd want them to be. While they may well benefit from some more attention, opening them up to public matchmaking is not the way to go. I'd love to keep the current formula, but it's not exactly working out too well for us. Less than 1% of the community raids on a regular basis. And that's a very generous estimate. (We know this by recording data provided by the raid leaderboards and doing some statistical analysis on it) Edited January 17, 2017 by DeltaPhantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaUrchins Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) There is a tutorial how to play Lunaro. Now, if they add a similar tutorial how to run a raid, where player gets to carry, to stand on buttons and is explained the details of instant failure, battery charging and the mechanics, I see absolutely no problem with public raids. The very situation where you need to go to a 3rd party website like youtube or wiki to learn how to run a mode in the game is preposterous. I did a bunch of raids and I am pretty confident a pug of people with IQ above 50 can do them from the first try IF they know how. The biggest problem is the game spoonfeeding you through all missions like MD, survival, spy, where that chick in ridiculous hat and eyes right under her ears spams absolutely useless information, like "ALARMS!" thanks, captain obvious, but when it comes to raids "OMG I can't transmit, now you need to do guess what guess how". PUG raids would be just fine if there was a quality in-game tutorial how to do the raid. If that gas does not let you transmit, then exclude those damn beans from your diet. And yea, if you say raids should be keys locked and common rabble should be denied of knowledge and easy access, you're just a regular platmonger selling arcanes. Edited January 17, 2017 by SeaUrchins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagamilight123 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said: The very situation where you need to go to a 3rd party website like youtube or wiki to learn how to run a mode in the game is preposterous. mm no . The "objetive" of any raid (or raid boss ) of any game is to people discover the mechanics ... not that the game or youtube explain to them . Saddly the new generation of player have no concept of difficulty or challenge . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaUrchins Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Yagamilight123 said: Saddly the new generation of player have no concept of difficulty or challenge . So basicly you oppose the idea of having a tutorial and therefore promote "H raid XP ONLY" and "hold on, I will check your raids record on http://wf.christx.tw/"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said: So basicly you oppose the idea of having a tutorial and therefore promote "H raid XP ONLY" and "hold on, I will check your raids record on http://wf.christx.tw/"? Your logic is flawed. Just because someone stands by DE's approach of having it all be 'discovery' doesn't mean they also support elitism. Edited January 17, 2017 by DeltaPhantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagamilight123 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said: So basicly you oppose the idea of having a tutorial and therefore promote "H raid XP ONLY" and "hold on, I will check your raids record on http://wf.christx.tw/"? No , no exp need it . Just go , recruit a group and try ,fail , learn together ... tutorials are for the beginning of the game not for the endgame . The problem is that people demand that experience players carried or teach them instead of going with other new people (to raids) and learn to do it . Edited January 17, 2017 by Yagamilight123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaUrchins Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, DeltaPhantom said: Just because someone stand's by DE's approach of having it all be 'discovery' doesn't mean they also support elitism. Firstly, doesn't mean they don't support elitism either as well. Secondly, if I assumed they did, I would use a statement, not a question. Please don't put words into my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Yagamilight123 said: mm no . The "objetive" of any raid (or raid boss ) of any game is to people discover the mechanics ... not that the game or youtube explain to them . Saddly the new generation of player have no concept of difficulty or challenge . Or its a outmoded design philosophy that was a dance made specifically to retain players monthly for a subscription based game as content took so long to create. It usually came down to memorization after you have the gear numbers. Not on the fly skill that this particular game should be designed around. Ive seen simpler raid mechanics in Destiny that seem challenging but not convoluted. DE has a problem in telegraphing information. Edited January 17, 2017 by Firetempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said: Firstly, doesn't mean they don't support elitism either as well. Secondly, if I assumed they did, I would use a statement, not a question. Please don't put words into my mouth. "H raid XP ONLY" and "hold on, I will check your raids record on http://wf.christx.tw/" is textbook elitism. Edited January 17, 2017 by DeltaPhantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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