Do not force Archwing onto your players by adding them to Sorties. [Devstream #86 feedback]

[CheekyColossus]

RIP sorties

[John89brensen]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

However, what are clearly either business decisions to keep the game afloat or pushes to make it so content isn't gobbled up in a week are not bad things. Being inconvenienced is no one's problem but yours, and demanding change is not the way to go. I have yet to see someone give an argument that wasn't based on "my clan is inactive" that makes the hema cost as bad as they try to make it out to be.

And to keep the game afloat they bring a broken game mode to the fore front, promising to make some new additions, but didnt they made additions in 2016, that completely f***ed AW, and then completely forgot about AW for more than half a year? Yeah, some bussiness decisions. Also the Hema is another argument, so dont bring it here.

You know there is a ton of stuff in Warframe that needs to be addressed, and yet DE focuses on things like PvP, breaking AW and forcing it to players. Yeah, great business decisions.

6 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

However, I don't appreciate attacks on my character, and just because I think differently from you, does not make me a white knight. DE is not a perfect game developing company, no game developing company is, but they do a helluva good job when their community acts like this. 

I see you in every thread that complains about the state of the game, pretty much defending DE like there is nothing wrong with the game, and your first post on this thread starts with "this community how no idea how video games work!" like you know it all, or we understand nothing and need to be told to. And yet you complaing about personal attacks? You can dish it out but you cant take it?

[artemisfortune]

Just now, John89brensen said:

And to keep the game afloat they bring a broken game mode to the fore front, promising to make some new additions, but didnt they made additions in 2016, that completely f***ed AW, and then completely forgot about AW for more than half a year? Yeah, some bussiness decisions. Also the Hema is another argument, so dont bring it here.

You know there is a ton of stuff in Warframe that needs to be addressed, and yet DE focuses on things like PvP, breaking AW and forcing it to players. Yeah, great business decisions.

I see you in every thread that complains about the state of the game, pretty much defending DE like there is nothing wrong with the game, and your first post on this thread starts with "this community how no idea how video games work!" like you know it all, or we understand nothing and need to be told to. And yet you complaing about personal attacks? You can dish it out but you cant take it?

Fair point, I did come off rude in my first post.

However the game is plenty afloat. Being AW into Sorties would be because they want to, not because they have to.

I mean, you can say a bunch of things need to be addressed, but I'd disagree with you on a lot of them. Also PVP has it's own dev team. Just FYI.

but Archwing is fine, as another user said above, whether you like it is irrelevant, it's plenty functional and I enjoy it a lot.

But how I spend my time on the forums should be no concern to you, and I can defend who I want.

This game has problems, but high costs aren't one of them and neither is revising a game mode and adding it into the end game.

[John89brensen]

7 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

See, here you go again being rude to people.

I enjoy archwing, and I'm pretty good at it. In what way are the controls bad?

Start with lack of control on how the camera rotates, you need to start playing around with your mouse while enemies fire missiles at you. Even Ace Combat Assault Horizon on PC using a mouse and keyboard has better controls than AW. 

And how am i being rude? Sarcasm? is that rude?

[Lyravain]

I have to agree with most here; Archwing is in absolutely, positively no state to be placed in Sorties.

It is a broken, messed up chaos that makes most people nauseous with the motions.

Which is weird, because old archwing was much better than what is now. In their rush to 'modernize' archwing, they instead destroyed it.

Now, if (and ONLY IF) DE fixed Archwing (by, dunno, LISTENING TO THE FEEDBACK)... I'd like to see Archwing in Sorties. But only then. Otherwise, with all due respect DE... let Archwing die.

[JohnViande]

Honestly, I used to not mind that much about Archwing. Thought it was okay but it could get boring pretty fast.

Then they introduced the new controls. Tried it once, never want to touch it again even if you give me 5,000 plat (well, okay for 5,000 plat I'd do it but for like 10 minutes maximum).

If it comes to Sorties, I just wont play it, just like I do now.

[John89brensen]

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

However the game is plenty afloat. Being AW into Sorties would be because they want to, not because they have to.

I mean, you can say a bunch of things need to be addressed, but I'd disagree with you on a lot of them. Also PVP has it's own dev team. Just FYI.

but Archwing is fine, as another user said above, whether you like it is irrelevant, it's plenty functional and I enjoy it a lot.

Clearly it is because they want to, not beacuse they have to. That doesnt mean it is a good idea.

Well good thing pvp is done by other people, because i was under the impression that we lost quite a few months of hype waiting for TWW, and all we got is broken AW and lunaro...

I like the idea behind AW, how it was implemented  not really, its terrible. There are a ton of other games that do it better, even for much more limited consoles. But DE seems to be set on catering to a large a crowd as possible.

[UndyingJester]

3 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Fair point, I did come off rude in my first post.

However the game is plenty afloat. Being AW into Sorties would be because they want to, not because they have to.

I mean, you can say a bunch of things need to be addressed, but I'd disagree with you on a lot of them. Also PVP has it's own dev team. Just FYI.

but Archwing is fine, as another user said above, whether you like it is irrelevant, it's plenty functional and I enjoy it a lot.

But how I spend my time on the forums should be no concern to you, and I can defend who I want.

This game has problems, but high costs aren't one of them and neither is revising a game mode and adding it into the end game.

Functional does not equate to End-Game worthy, let alone sortie worthy.

I absolutely adore Archwing, I love everything about it, because I love space-sim games. But the controls are so... ew. The weapons are uninspired, the designs are cool though. They aren't going out of the box. They are grabbing the same weapons we have in the normal modes and simply converting them over. The maps are a pain in the &#! to dictate, not to mention the complications created by the controls within it, make it nearly impossible to truly navigate it without practically hurling from having to spaz out on the visual wheel to get set to a decent horizontal-vertical setting. Plus, have you tried to take out that friggin Carrier grineer thing? That truly shows all of the issues with the game mode. Its super hard to get any weapon unless you've got the cash, or unseemly amounts of time to grind through literally every syndicate, because you need a piece from two OPPOSING syndicates to make them.

[UndyingJester]

3 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Fair point, I did come off rude in my first post.

However the game is plenty afloat. Being AW into Sorties would be because they want to, not because they have to.

I mean, you can say a bunch of things need to be addressed, but I'd disagree with you on a lot of them. Also PVP has it's own dev team. Just FYI.

but Archwing is fine, as another user said above, whether you like it is irrelevant, it's plenty functional and I enjoy it a lot.

But how I spend my time on the forums should be no concern to you, and I can defend who I want.

This game has problems, but high costs aren't one of them and neither is revising a game mode and adding it into the end game.

Functional does not equate to End-Game worthy, let alone sortie worthy.

I absolutely adore Archwing, I love everything about it, because I love space-sim games. But the controls are so... ew. The weapons are uninspired, the designs are cool though. They aren't going out of the box. They are grabbing the same weapons we have in the normal modes and simply converting them over. The maps are a pain in the &#! to dictate, not to mention the complications created by the controls within it, make it nearly impossible to truly navigate it without practically hurling from having to spaz out on the visual wheel to get set to a decent horizontal-vertical setting. Plus, have you tried to take out that friggin Carrier grineer thing? That truly shows all of the issues with the game mode. Its super hard to get any weapon unless you've got the cash, or unseemly amounts of time to grind through literally every syndicate, because you need a piece from two OPPOSING syndicates to make them.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, UndyingJester said:

Functional does not equate to End-Game worthy, let alone sortie worthy.

I absolutely adore Archwing, I love everything about it, because I love space-sim games. But the controls are so... ew. The weapons are uninspired, the designs are cool though. They aren't going out of the box. They are grabbing the same weapons we have in the normal modes and simply converting them over. The maps are a pain in the &#! to dictate, not to mention the complications created by the controls within it, make it nearly impossible to truly navigate it without practically hurling from having to spaz out on the visual wheel to get set to a decent horizontal-vertical setting. Plus, have you tried to take out that friggin Carrier grineer thing? That truly shows all of the issues with the game mode. Its super hard to get any weapon unless you've got the cash, or unseemly amounts of time to grind through literally every syndicate, because you need a piece from two OPPOSING syndicates to make them.

Which is why I think people should stop picking and choosing what they decide to quote from the stream.

They said they are thinking about adding it sorties after some heavy revisions.

[John89brensen]

5 minutes ago, Lyravain said:

Now, if (and ONLY IF) DE fixed Archwing (by, dunno, LISTENING TO THE FEEDBACK)... I'd like to see Archwing in Sorties. But only then. Otherwise, with all due respect DE... let Archwing die.

This. I'd love to see AW fixed, because the concept seems really cool. But on the other hand, they had more than half a year to do it and they left AW in that poor state, im not overly optimistic.

[Multicom-EN-]

Just now, JSharpie said:

Which is why I think people should stop picking and choosing what they decide to quote from the stream.

They said they are thinking about adding it sorties after some heavy revisions.

Sorry, but isn't this the General Feedback area? Where do you think Warframe would be without community feedback after Devstreams, hotfixes, major updates and so forth?

[Lyravain]

Just now, John89brensen said:

This. I'd love to see AW fixed, because the concept seems really cool. But on the other hand, they had more than half a year to do it and they left AW in that poor state, im not overly optimistic.

I know, right? I absolutely love Titania's Razorwing specifically because it's the old archwing. This 'archwing 2.0' is more of a lesson on how to mess up a perfectly workable system -maybe not the best system, but a workable one.

[UndyingJester]

Just now, JSharpie said:

Which is why I think people should stop picking and choosing what they decide to quote from the stream.

They said they are thinking about adding it sorties after some heavy revisions.

The amount of work they would need to do to truly make it worthwhile, is essentially expansion-pack levels of work. They'd have to completely take down Archwing, dissect it, fix the technical issues, and then re-integrate it entirely. Including removing those stupid Syndicate orientation for the weapons. Which makes no sense to begin with. With Darvo and traitor traders all around the system, the only way for us to build an Archwing weapon is by somehow getting two separate, conflicting syndicates to rank 3? Seriously? Thats it!?

 

 

Also, sorry about the double post....

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, Multicom-EN- said:

Sorry, but isn't this the General Feedback area? Where do you think Warframe would be without community feedback after Devstreams, hotfixes, major updates and so forth?

Did you just not read my post?

People are thinking DE is just going to add Archwing in it's current state, which would be a bad idea, but that's not what they said at all.

They said after revisions, and even then, it's only a maybe.

[UndyingJester]

2 minutes ago, Multicom-EN- said:

Sorry, but isn't this the General Feedback area? Where do you think Warframe would be without community feedback after Devstreams, hotfixes, major updates and so forth?

In the same spot they are in? We've fedback on alot of their new issues, and have gotten didly squat except reworks we don't want, issues we didn't bring up, and weapons that aren't fun.

[R34LM]

39 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Aaaaaaand this community has no idea how video games work!

You aren't making the game.

You can give your opinion, but DE will make the game how they want.

They said after heavy revisions, you and I have no idea what that entails.

They said they want to, not that they're going to.

Archwing is something they want in the game, they want it to be a part of it, we have plenty of content for it that isn't used because it isn't included well enough.

If your ideals of "I don't like it so lets scrap it" then this game would be a cookie clicker clone.

and in conclusion, can you at least think before you make a post on pure emotion?

You forget how FTP video games work. If we don't like the product, we don't play, DE loses money. We may not make the game, but we have serious sway.

[Multicom-EN-]

2 minutes ago, UndyingJester said:

In the same spot they are in? We've fedback on alot of their new issues, and have gotten didly squat except reworks we don't want, issues we didn't bring up, and weapons that aren't fun.

That is so, so wrong. But you are free to feel whatever you want to. 

So many additions and changes have happened due to community feedback, art and so forth.

[John89brensen]

2 minutes ago, Lyravain said:

I know, right? I absolutely love Titania's Razorwing specifically because it's the old archwing. This 'archwing 2.0' is more of a lesson on how to mess up a perfectly workable system -maybe not the best system, but a workable one.

Exactly, and having so many examples of other games that do aerial combat right, its amazing how they did AW 2.0

 

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

People are thinking DE is just going to add Archwing in it's current state, which would be a bad idea, but that's not what they said at all.

Given how the last "overhaul" for AW went, i think people have a right to be concerned about the future of the system. Escpecially when DE doesnt disclose enough information about what changes they might do. Otherwise they shoulndt say anything, unless we want another TWW hype situation (as in announced to soon).

[EmptyDevil]

40 minutes ago, Multicom-EN- said:

Sheldon mentioned it would/could appear in Sorties in the future. 

Why force it onto 90% of your players (rough number) that doesn't want to play it?

---

Perhaps make a separate Sortie dedicated to Archwing mode with the same rewards as the regular Sortie offer.

For those who like Archwing can choose to either play Archwing Sortie or normal Sortie every day.

 

Just my opinion anyways. Thoughts? Ideas? Comment below, and be civil please.

No offense, but this thread kinda comes off as a knee-jerk reaction. It makes it look like you completely ignored, missed, or chose to omit the details of everything they said after 'Archwing sorties'. I recall them saying they would solve the problems that turn people off of Archwing before implementing it. Problems like motion sickness are valid, not liking it for the sake of not liking it isn't a problem. Archwing needs concise feedback in order to improve it. Try making some suggestions that would better the game mode in a healthy way?

The segregation solutions are generally a terrible idea. It would be better if you got rewards for playing both versions though, meaning those that like Archwing will get more by doing both types.

[UndyingJester]

5 minutes ago, Multicom-EN- said:

That is so, so wrong. But you are free to feel whatever you want to. 

So many additions and changes have happened due to community feedback, art and so forth.

You don't understand exaggeration, do you?

It feels like the more we give them honest feedback, the weirder their response is. A vast majority, I wouldn't say all, have complained about ALOT of things, including AW, and their thought is 'We'll revise it a bit, and put it into sortie'. 

Yeah, but I don't mean additions like a friggin Syandana, or Tennogen stuff. I meant like, honest to god changes and additions to the game itself, and not Fashion Frame.

[John89brensen]

7 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

I recall them saying they would solve the problems that turn people off of Archwing before implementing it. Problems like motion sickness are valid, not liking it for the sake of not liking it isn't a problem. Archwing needs concise feedback in order to improve it.

But wasnt AW 2.0 implemented to bring people back to a fun but unpopular game mode? And what they did was break the controls, remove any rewards that might be worth playing for, introduce eximus to space, and ultimately, turn off even more people from AW.

And its not like they didnt have any feedback on this for the past 8 months. People have been complaining about motion sickness and collision detection, and suggesting changes to AW since day 1.

We'll see what comes off of this, but DE shoulndt have announced this so early, without even showing how they fixed AW, or even wait until AW is fixed before discussing sorties. I thought they learned from TWW.

Edited January 20, 2017 by John89brensen

[KubrowTamer]

Archwing is bad because it lacks content, dont complain because its core problem is trying to be fixed.

[Volinus7]

There you go 7th controversy in one year period.

Can't wait for 8th one.

[DaintyCanadian]

If they made archwing more accessible then I would love to see it in sorties.