Devstream 86 Overview

[KaizergidorahXi]

20 hours ago, DoctorBagPhD said:

I'm done.

If I can't trust the devs to stick to their word then I'm sure as hell not going to invest more time and money in a 'game' that's becoming increasingly more of a grind and pathetic cash grab attempts. I don't know if it's because the team are just caring less about the community as time goes on, or if a certain Chinese overlord is exerting more and more pressure, and honestly I don't really care. The end result is the same and it's saddening. I'm not going to uninstall Warframe or delete my account or any of that crap (hell, I'll probably macro getting my login reward when my comp loads up), because I genuinely love Warframe, and I truly hope DE remove their heads from that dark and smelly space they've got them crammed up in, see some sense, and rectify this and the several other stupid, greed motivated decisions they have made.

I don't regret spending (literally) thousands of hours in game, my Lotus tattoo, or the accumulated hundreds of pounds I've spent over the years. I've bonded with friends over Warframe and honestly the amount of good memories this game vastly outnumber the memories I've made from every other game in my Steam library combined. Without giving too much info, there are reasons that make it difficult for me to get out much, and over the past few years Warframe has helped me feel less like a broken joke of a person, and more like, well, a tenno. A member of a genuinely wonderful community where I wasn't criticised or judged, and could fight alongside other's against common enemies.

I hope that whatever is causing DE to take WF in the direction it's headed gets resolved, and I can come back to the game in a year or two (or, if I'm being unreasonably optimistic, a few months) and be proud that DE always put the WF community first and foremost, even if it takes a considerable amount of persuasion. The cynical, realist side of myself says that WF is going to continue to get worse, with more outrageous research requirement costs, broken RNG nonsense and low effort content, and if that's the case I'll never play Warframe again.

As I expect that's the case, I want to say thanks DE, for all the good times and great memories, but also f**k you, for continuing to ruin my favourite game.

I couldn't have said it better myself.  Good luck out there, Tenno.   Hopefully the rest of us won't have to join you.  But the way things are going,  Warframe may lose all of its players With their increasingly seemingly greedy business practices that they seem to be trying to pass off as "clan interaction". I've said it once,  and I'll say it again,  @[DE]Steve: We notice these things.  Play your own game before making changes like this and saying that they're reasonable. With the average drop rate of 1 Sample a minute,  it would take my clan, which is most often just me,  82 hours and 20 minutes of constant defence on one boring,  keylocked planet where it "rains mutagen. " Does that sound fun to you?  Because it sure is not fun for me. This is not Dev bashing.  This is a plea for them to listen to reason. 

Godspeed, Tennis.  Best wishes. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by KaizergidorahXi

[Multicom-EN-]

20 hours ago, DoctorBagPhD said:

I'm done.

If I can't trust the devs to stick to their word then I'm sure as hell not going to invest more time and money in a 'game' that's becoming increasingly more of a grind and pathetic cash grab attempts. I don't know if it's because the team are just caring less about the community as time goes on, or if a certain Chinese overlord is exerting more and more pressure, and honestly I don't really care. The end result is the same and it's saddening. I'm not going to uninstall Warframe or delete my account or any of that crap (hell, I'll probably macro getting my login reward when my comp loads up), because I genuinely love Warframe, and I truly hope DE remove their heads from that dark and smelly space they've got them crammed up in, see some sense, and rectify this and the several other stupid, greed motivated decisions they have made.

I don't regret spending (literally) thousands of hours in game, my Lotus tattoo, or the accumulated hundreds of pounds I've spent over the years. I've bonded with friends over Warframe and honestly the amount of good memories this game vastly outnumber the memories I've made from every other game in my Steam library combined. Without giving too much info, there are reasons that make it difficult for me to get out much, and over the past few years Warframe has helped me feel less like a broken joke of a person, and more like, well, a tenno. A member of a genuinely wonderful community where I wasn't criticised or judged, and could fight alongside other's against common enemies.

I hope that whatever is causing DE to take WF in the direction it's headed gets resolved, and I can come back to the game in a year or two (or, if I'm being unreasonably optimistic, a few months) and be proud that DE always put the WF community first and foremost, even if it takes a considerable amount of persuasion. The cynical, realist side of myself says that WF is going to continue to get worse, with more outrageous research requirement costs, broken RNG nonsense and low effort content, and if that's the case I'll never play Warframe again.

As I expect that's the case, I want to say thanks DE, for all the good times and great memories, but also f**k you, for continuing to ruin my favourite game.

I'm right there with you. They keep making it grindier and grindier and add more bs resources. I'm not going to stop playing, but I'm not spending another dollar until the direction shifts.

[SpydrXIII]

20 hours ago, Loswaith said:

You can still see something is good or bad for the game even if you don't want it yourself.  Thus make comments to the effect.  By your comments logic anyone that has the Hema cant make a comment because they don't want it anymore (because they actually have it).

The game isn't about any one individual, it is about the Warframe community as a whole.

 

personally I like not being able to get the new weapons as soon as they come out.  We need carrots on sticks to keep us playing.  I need more goals to achieve in Warframe, and this is a goal.  Some neat new weapon I can strive for, log on when I can, and slowly get there.  You don't plug in Mario and jump straight to Bowser.  You work towards it.  We need something to look forward to, a reason to keep playing.  Long term goals for players are great.  It's also a resource sink for older players who've amassed too many mutagen samples with nothing to spend them on.

[Trichouette]

Just now, SpydrXIII said:

You work towards it. 

Unless that playing hours and hours of the same mission in derelict is hardly what I'd call entertaining.

Items are either too easy to obtain (not enough ressources required) or use too much RNG to be obtained (mostly frames), and the rest of the time we have stuff like hema or sybear.

It's like they can't do anything inbetween.

 

So I do agree that having something to work toward is something we need, but not when it's just "farm the same thing over and over for days".

As I said countless time, asking for 20 mutagen sample (pox) is stupid, but asking for 5k (hema) is even more stupid.

[Inarticulate]

1 hour ago, SpydrXIII said:

You work towards it.  We need something to look forward to, a reason to keep playing.  Long term goals for players are great.  It's also a resource sink for older players who've amassed too many mutagen samples with nothing to spend them on.

The only older players who have that many Mutagen Samples are the players who farmed Orokin Derelict Defense for affinity back in the days before Viver became a thing. That was two years ago. Newer players have had literally no reason to go to the Derelicts besides fighting Lephantis and obtaining the materials to build the Assassination keys.

Long-term goals are great, but 5,000 Mutagen Samples is hardly a long-term goal.

For one, this is not a goal that can be reached on any reasonable time scale simply by playing the game normally. Oxium and Cryotic you'll receive in modest amounts simply by playing the game because sorties and alerts will pit you against the Corpus or play an Excavation mission. Excavation is also currently at the top in terms of missions types for farming other things in-game like Relics and Endo.

On the contrary, Mutagen Samples only drop in modest amounts from the Orokin Derelict. As previously mentioned, there's very little that you can do in the Derelicts that you can't do more effectively elsewhere, meaning if you are in the Derelicts to farm for Mutagen Samples, that's literally the only thing you're going to be there for.

Furthermore, The modest drop rate for Mutagen Samples is still hardly enough to dent the research cost. For small social clans and solo clans where only one or two players are shouldering the research costs, the time investment to complete the Hema's research cost is unreasonable.

A solo run of Orokin Derelict Survival for one hour as Nekros with both resource boosters running netted me 234 Mutagen Samples. A clan with one active player will require 21 hours of doing nothing but running Orokin Derelict Survival to fund this research. As Nekros. With both resource boosters running.

 

In all honesty, the best long-term goal implementation in this game is Nitain Extract. It's something that can be obtained simply by playing the game because running alerts is, in fact, playing the game, and the time investment is rather minimal. sorties and Kuva also follow a similar system.

You can do other things while waiting for the next alert to begin or the next sortie or Kuva reset. Anything you choose to do while waiting for the next Nitain Extract alert isn't negatively affecting the amount of Nitain Extract you receive. Anything you choose to do while waiting for the next sortie reset isn't decreasing the rewards you receive from sorties. Anything you choose to do while waiting for the next Kuva reset isn't affecting the rate at which you receive Kuva.

You can't do other things while farming Mutagen Samples, and that's where the root of the problem lies. Anything you choose to do while not farming Mutagen Samples is time you're not spending farming Mutagen Samples.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Inarticulate

[Loswaith]

2 hours ago, SpydrXIII said:

personally I like not being able to get the new weapons as soon as they come out.

A you cant it takes at least 3 days for the research to complete, and 24 hrs for the weapon to build.

2 hours ago, SpydrXIII said:

We need carrots on sticks to keep us playing. ...

We need something to look forward to, a reason to keep playing. ...

Yet we got a stick in this case.  Fun and enjoyment should be the goal to keep us playing, not grinds.  Hours and hours of grind in one tile set isn't that much fun (unless you like heavy grind).  That is why DE spent all that time changing the Void prime hunt to the fissure system.

2 hours ago, SpydrXIII said:

Some neat new weapon I can strive for, log on when I can, and slowly get there.

You can do that with any gear you want.  You simply take note of your resources when you start, then go earn the ones you need to get there.  
It is entirely in your power to do so without forcing it on others that don't want to do that to do so.  Or DE presuming the hundreds of hours players already put into the game don't count for anything for those that have been playing and supporting the game all along.

2 hours ago, SpydrXIII said:

You don't plug in Mario and jump straight to Bowser.  You work towards it.

You also don't just play the one level over and over again and at some random time, Bowser shows up for you to complete the game.  That is because it just isn't fun after a while.

2 hours ago, SpydrXIII said:

Long term goals for players are great. ...

However this isn't even a long term goal, it is busy work. Veterans already put in the 'long term' work, while for newer players research is already a long term goal.  I'm sure many newer players want make their own Dojos.
The progression is entirely determined on RNG.  You aren't going to earn enough to ever get the Hema by just playing the game normally (over 4 years just playing I had 1600).  Mostly because mutagen is only reasonably drops on one tile-set that you have no reasons to actually regularly play on for anything that a quick mission here and there for star chart completion,  an Ayatan mission or Orokin Vaults.

2 hours ago, SpydrXIII said:

It's also a resource sink for older players who've amassed too many mutagen samples with nothing to spend them on.

My ghost clan was made up of 3 founders (and a forth newer friend) that have never taken long term breaks (sure we aren't hardcore farmers but have spent chunks of time in derelicts), and we only just got halfway through the mutagen for the research.   A sink is something that chips away at your pool over time, not eats them all then asks you to go get that amount you collected over 4 years again.

Just look at the total if we presume Ghost clan research, if you built every mutagen mass from samples you required for every other piece of gear, the collective mutagen sample cost for research and construction, of all other gear in the game would come to a total of 1355 samples, only 26.7% of the cost of the Hema's research alone.  How is hema research cost isn't even close to a sink, we have a chasm, not a sink.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Loswaith

[(XBOX)RogueTenno]

On 21/01/2017 at 10:57 PM, Loswaith said:

The issue here is both can be achieved, for example, lowering the base cost to about 2000, sure that is a lot and would still require clans to work together but also show that the concerns of the players are being seen and addressed.  

Likewise 2000 is about what you would expect for a clan with about 40% active players, each contributing 500 samples (one full squad per clan tier multiplier is not unreasonable).  While not being well out of reach for clans with a smaller active player base, rather than expecting clans to simply have 100% player base with access to gaining mutagen samples.

Those clans with smaller player active player base (below the 30%-40% I mean) do expect to have to do a bit more work to get stuff but not so much work as if they had a completely full clan (which would more likely have upgraded into the next tier).

I donated 2500 to my clan by my self.... I think anyone crying about this doesn't even deserve powerful weapons like this for a sheer lack of discipline and obviously hours played if you don't have enough resources to get the weapon then you haven't earned it. Is this your problem that you have to earn it instead of having it handed to you.... Yes, yes it is! DE is not your mommy and they shouldn't give you things you haven't earned like she does! I've said it before and I'll say it again tenno are warriors of virtue and discipline if you do not pocess the discipline to acquire power then you do not deserve it. DE Taylor I would also like to apologize for my fellow Tenno who for some reason find it OK to nit pick and harrass you for a small, simple error in communication, they should really know better.

Edited January 24, 2017 by [DE]Taylor
fixed formatting :)

[Loswaith]

While plenty of us, myself included have sat through every other grind DE has put up only to have them make it easier for players like yourself, while we don't complain one bit about it because we understand it is better for the game on the whole if newer players can actually see they can just play the game and get things, or have the ability to get rewards that were exclusive to events with much less effort than those players that did them at the time.

You have no clue how many mutagen samples those arguing to change it have actually donated, because simply put anyone can put a number on the page and say "I've done this".

While apparently the only argument you can make to support the cost staying is to abuse and belittle players (I sure hope DE doesn't want to support that), not very virtuous of you.  Something that is never good for the community.

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Loswaith

[(PSN)Pluckie1609Ducky]

There is a glitch on the PS4 info screen, it keeps saying the dev stream 86 is coming. I didn't know if anyone had said something or not yet. 😊

LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!!

[Maholix]

On 1/24/2017 at 6:52 AM, (Xbox One)RogueTenno said:

I think anyone crying about this doesn't even deserve powerful weapons like this. Is your problem that you have to earn it instead of having it handed to you.... Yes, yes it is! DE is not your mommy.  DE Taylor I would also like to apologize for my fellow Tenno who for some reason find it OK to nit pick and harrass you for a small, simple error in communication, they should really know better.

I think perhaps this is troll bait. But just in case it isn't, your phrasing seems awfully counter productive to your point. You ask a question about your fellow tenno, but then answer it for yourself, in what seems to be a pretty agressive and dare I say, controling fashion. Why? A person who is geninuely holding level discussions with their fellows allows a chance for response, rather than insisting they know the mind of the other party and insinuating they are childern. It cuts the other person out entirely.

I only point this out so I can come back to the heart of what I think you were trying to say, as it is a good point. That commuication with others is more productive than attacking them. And I think your right. That's the point of what many of the posters, myself included are trying to do. We are giving feedback over comments that were, more or less directed at us, the community, in the dev stream. Most of the responses in this thread appear to be thought out and talking about possible corrections, hopes for the company and personal concerns.

I too hope that Taylor does not feel under attack here, as it not her say over what can be done about it. I think some of the posters here are just upset and trying to figure out what to do about it and who they can talk to. It seems to be the general concensius that at least some of the community feels shut out and perhaps a little threatened by recent changes. We as the commuinty do not have any inheritent power, beyond the use of our time and wallets.

The only way we can truly make improvements on a game we love, hopefully as much as the devs themselves, if not more, is to give our observations. But hopefully, through giving out our own insights into the matter, in a way that talks about the issues and why we feel the way we do, something good can be achieved. Isn't that the whole point of discussion? Of communication?

Communication is most certainly key in all this and is, in fact, something the majority of posters are asking for from steve and the rest. For them to sit down with us and explain their reasons, listen to ours, and maybe, just maybe, have some fun instead of all the bureaucracy we've seen of late.

 

Btw, @[DE]Taylor since I bothered to write up this long post about communication anyway, I wanted to thank you for your efforts to respond, even if such responses lacked any real solution to the problems expressed here at this time. I realize everyone in a company has a role to play and sometimes that can be rather limiting. But like another poster in the thread mentioned it shows something when you take the time to respond and I do appericiate it. I hope you will try to pass things along as you can and have a pleasent day.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Maholix
spelling errors

[(PSN)ActualEntity]

Requiring 5 thousand Mutagen Samples to research a weapon blueprint does seem a bit disproportional. Is it even the best weapon in the game?

Edited January 29, 2017 by (PS4)ActualEntity
Wrong thread.

[DSkycroft]

2 hours ago, (PS4)ActualEntity said:

Requiring 5 thousand Mutagen Samples to research a weapon blueprint does seem a bit disproportional. Is it even the best weapon in the game?

not even close.Since it uses health as ammo Nidus is really the only one that can use it to it's full potential due to his natural health regeneration.

Edited January 29, 2017 by DSkycroft

[Domesticon]

2 hours ago, DSkycroft said:

not even close.Since it uses health as ammo Nidus is really the only one that can use it to it's full potential due to his natural health regeneration.

Not entirely true, but still generally accurate, general use is highly limited, only frames I can think of that'd be able to use it without any real draw backs would be a Despoil Nekros, Oberon, Inaros, Valkyr , Trinity, and as said Nidus. I suppose technically Nezha too, but his heal is very unreliable.