Another gimmick frame

[tbeest]

EDIT: I want to clarify myself a bit here, yes I'd love to see the bard frame. No I do not want the meta to be one or two repetitive songs which are only effective in certain areas. 
Potato pointed out a similar thing in one of his videos, will you believe a guy that has more subscribers than I have used words here? The video in the spoiler below starts at the proper time.

Spoiler

 

These are all "speculations" but it is pretty much what will happen when they release the frame with powers as advertised in the DevStream, unless they manage to polish it really good. Which is why I made this post! To point that out. Of course we'll have to wait and see but I'd rather see a frame that doesn't need a rework the moment it is released.

Original post:
The way they described the new Bard abilities makes me think it's going to be another gimmick frame. Here are my thoughts on two of the things they said about it's abilities in the last DevStream:

"Amplify ambient sound to increase damage" sounds too situational (remember old Volt ult?). I think the sounds in-game shouldn't affect the damage output in any way.

Highs/lows will do DoT/burst damage, so "nice" and "effective" songs will probably be separate things (repeat one tone over and over for maximum damage rather than make actual music). Limiting the amount of steps(?) to try and avoid that repetitive sound however, would limit the options in terms of creativity. Furthermore; what would prevent a player from cramming all available notes in the first two rows to get the most damage in the fastest possible way?

The idea of making and sharing your own music sounds good, but it'd be nice if the frame would be useful and not, well, a gimmick.

Edited January 22, 2017 by tbeest
Clarify

[IggySnow]

dude they said they JUST got her working in game. and that all her powers and stuff are just being discussed. 

[Dreddeth]

Another reactionary doomsaying thread for something that isn't even ready to ship yet, you mean.

[tbeest]

Just now, HerpDerpy said:

dude they said they JUST got her working in game. and that all her powers and stuff are just being discussed. 

That's why I'm putting up my thoughts here, is it not? To be discussed.

[ChuckMaverick]

I'd much rather have a new frame with unique mechanics, even if it is a bit situational, than just a remix of existing abilities under different names.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

I think I will probably have more fun making songs than actually playing her. Her dance animations are so cute tho. Lol

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Just now, ChuckMaverick said:

I'd much rather have a new frame with unique mechanics, even if it is a bit situational, than just a remix of existing abilities under different names.

I couldn't say this better myself.

[Dreddeth]

I'm not sure what you mean by "gimmick frame," either. To my understanding, every single frame in the game revolves around a gimmick so as to provide a unique skill set and play style, so if that's your actual problem well then there's the door.

[(PSN)Stanicek3]

Situational or not, I feel Bard is going to be my baby. She will be mine. I will make her not trash if needed.

[Toppien]

i want to play darude sandstorm with her...

[tbeest]

14 minutes ago, Dreddeth said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "gimmick frame," either. To my understanding, every single frame in the game revolves around a gimmick so as to provide a unique skill set and play style, so if that's your actual problem well then there's the door.

"A gimmick is a novel device or idea designed primarily to attract attention or increase appeal, often with little intrinsic value. It is a unique or quirky feature designed to make a product or service "stand out" from its competitors. Product gimmicks are sometimes considered mere novelties, and tangential to the product's functioning. Gimmicks are occasionally viewed negatively, but some seemingly trivial gimmicks of the past have evolved into useful, permanent features."

In my understanding of the word gimmick it means something interesting but not very useful.
Even if the frame ends up being "not-very-useful" I'll probably still enjoy some time with it. It'd just be nicer if it was useful in sorties and the likes as well and not being dependent on terrain/sound to bring out it's full potential.

Edited January 21, 2017 by tbeest

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Stanicek3 said:

Situational or not, I feel Bard is going to be my baby. She will be mine. I will make her not trash if needed.

Same but at the same time would like to know a lot more about her deployables before I make my final decision. Because Vauban deployables are fun but I utilize his Concuss grenade more than anything else in his kit.

Edited January 21, 2017 by (XB1)Cash201293

[BansheePrime]

30 minutes ago, Dreddeth said:

Another reactionary doomsaying thread for something that isn't even ready to ship yet, you mean.

I remember when people said nidus was gonna suck...

Meanwhile I'm just here hoping my Banshees Sound Quake will wub in sync with bard frames tunes... and significantly increase bardframes sound damage.

Edited January 21, 2017 by maj.death

[taiiat]

as opposed to a Warframe that doesn't have a core gimmick/selling feature that sets it apart?
right...

[(PSN)sanemane213]

Bard will kill people with music, and dance on their graves, what's not to love.

 

Edited January 21, 2017 by (PS4)sanemane213

[ArbitUHM]

It is a little worrisome that they appear to be approaching this as a self-indulgent design project, because that's how Archwing got made. It's something that's cool but is there really a demand for it? Are people really clamoring for rhythm-based gameplay in Warframe? Can the resources devoted to the music builder be used elsewhere in the game? I would guess that the answers to those questions are all 'no'.

It could be that they execute something really novel and interesting, but that would take a lot of polish, something they're not the greatest at.

 

 

[Lance_Lionroar]

Another salty player.

[Vilmera]

4 hours ago, tbeest said:

The way they described the new Bard abilities makes me think it's going to be another gimmick frame. Here are my thoughts on two of the things they said about it's abilities in the last DevStream:

"Amplify ambient sound to increase damage" sounds too situational (remember old Volt ult?). I think the sounds in-game shouldn't affect the damage output in any way.

Highs/lows will do DoT/burst damage, so "nice" and "effective" songs will probably be separate things (repeat one tone over and over for maximum damage rather than make actual music). Limiting the amount of steps(?) to try and avoid that repetitive sound however, would limit the options in terms of creativity. Furthermore; what would prevent a player from cramming all available notes in the first two rows to get the most damage in the fastest possible way?

The idea of making and sharing your own music sounds good, but it'd be nice if the frame would be useful and not, well, a gimmick.

i think you and ppl like you shouldn't affect this game in any way.

[tbeest]

1 minute ago, Vilmera said:

i think you and ppl like you shouldn't affect this game in any way.

That's an okay opinion. Do you have any arguments to go along with that?

[Hypernaut1]

IMO, her mechanics sound so cool that i could see a full fledged SP game based on her.

[Dreddeth]

5 hours ago, tbeest said:

"A gimmick is a novel device or idea designed primarily to attract attention or increase appeal, often with little intrinsic value. It is a unique or quirky feature designed to make a product or service "stand out" from its competitors. Product gimmicks are sometimes considered mere novelties, and tangential to the product's functioning. Gimmicks are occasionally viewed negatively, but some seemingly trivial gimmicks of the past have evolved into useful, permanent features."

In my understanding of the word gimmick it means something interesting but not very useful.
Even if the frame ends up being "not-very-useful" I'll probably still enjoy some time with it. It'd just be nicer if it was useful in sorties and the likes as well and not being dependent on terrain/sound to bring out it's full potential.

You're using the term gimmick incorrectly, then, as far as I can tell. In reference to the bard frame you are describing her selling point, the mechanics by which her core skills will (presumably) function, and thus describing the frame as a whole by extension. A more valid example of a gimmick according to the definition you just gave would be Mirage's 2, or Valkyr's 1, because they're stand-outs within their respective kits that add pretty much nothing to the kit as a whole.

Of course, if you're going to call an entire frame a gimmick just because of its chosen shtick, well, that doesn't speak very highly of your knowledge regarding how the frame works, and indeed no tangible information is available. As such, this topic is baseless conjecture at this point. I'd suggest you sit down and wait to try her on release before Samuel L. Jackson starts narrating my inner monologue here.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Dreddeth

[ShadowDragon000]

Omg how dare you be skeptical of DE they have never made any mistakes ever, every frame is perfectly balanced and useful especially Wukong. They would never divert a vast amount of time and resources into something that's basically a second game that no one plays, definitely not when there are other issues that need worked on. Your completely valid skepticism of a massive time sink of a niche possibly exploitable/broken system sickens me. It's not like there is going to be 3-4 optimal songs that after two weeks that everyone uses because that's the way systems work, and they definitely won't sound like a child smashing his hands on a piano. It's not like there is almost no way to control noise levels aside from asking your team to bring annoyingly loud/spammy weapons for you. How dare you point out these possible outcomes!

 

edit: Now I'm not saying I want it to be bad or hope that it fails, but it is always a possibility and nothing ever gets improved by ignoring problems.

Edited January 21, 2017 by ShadowDragon000
added text

[ShadowDragon000]

6 hours ago, Vilmera said:

i think you and ppl like you shouldn't affect this game in any way.

I think people like you contribute to toxic complacency and don't hold anything to a higher standard or lack the ability to think critically and understand the possible flaws in a system. So people like you shouldn't affect anything in any way.

[Littlerift]

10 minutes ago, ShadowDragon000 said:

Omg how dare you be skeptical of DE they have never made any mistakes ever, every frame is perfectly balanced and useful especially Wukong. They would never divert a vast amount of time and resources into something that's basically a second game that no one plays, definitely not when there are other issues that need worked on. Your completely valid skepticism of a massive time sink of a niche possibly exploitable/broken system sickens me. It's not like there is going to be 3-4 optimal songs that after two weeks that everyone uses because that's the way systems work, and they definitely won't sound like a child smashing his hands on a piano. It's not like there is almost no way to control noise levels aside from asking your team to bring annoyingly loud/spammy weapons for you. How dare you point out these possible outcomes!

 

Knows nothing about how Bard will work; already knows that Bard's development has been a "massive time sink of a niche possibly exploitable/broken system."
 

People these days.

[IX-44]

10 hours ago, tbeest said:

The way they described the new Bard abilities makes me think it's going to be another gimmick frame. Here are my thoughts on two of the things they said about it's abilities in the last DevStream:

"Amplify ambient sound to increase damage" sounds too situational (remember old Volt ult?). I think the sounds in-game shouldn't affect the damage output in any way.

Highs/lows will do DoT/burst damage, so "nice" and "effective" songs will probably be separate things (repeat one tone over and over for maximum damage rather than make actual music). Limiting the amount of steps(?) to try and avoid that repetitive sound however, would limit the options in terms of creativity. Furthermore; what would prevent a player from cramming all available notes in the first two rows to get the most damage in the fastest possible way?

The idea of making and sharing your own music sounds good, but it'd be nice if the frame would be useful and not, well, a gimmick.

1. Sounds are situational...? Last I checked, every inch of this game has sound effects. Even space. And that's not even how space works. Volt's Ult was situational because not every tile has light fixtures or ones that counted towards his ultimate. Meaning he was really only useful on the tileset that had an insane amount of light fixtures: Corpus ships.

2. What's stopping people from cramming all available notes in the first two rows is that if you actually make a tune, it would sound nice. Additionally, having a consistent sound would (as they said) be more along the lines of a DoT effect where the individual pulses would be weaker. Single notes would be more bursty.

3.

10 hours ago, Dreddeth said:

Another reactionary doomsaying thread for something that isn't even ready to ship yet, you mean.

 

Edited January 21, 2017 by ChargeBeam