Psa To Support: Stop Unbanning Banned Players

[WhereIsTheJustice]

These are quotes from cheaters on a sub-section dedicated to Warframe cheating on a cheating forum. 

They unbanned my first account (which got banned because i forgot to bypass CE)

they said they believed that i had no malicious attempt and unbanned me LOL

Got my main unbanned. I used all the hacks, some more than others :P
It was a founders account ($100 into it), so that may have had something to do with it, but I just gave them some sob story about how somebody was cheating in the squad I was in and I didn't realize until later.

I'll tell you what I did!

I told them the truth! I tried to unlock the color pallets and I got my account back. They still kept me locked out for a week, but dammit, I was truthful.

http://puu.sh/3vrma.png

I would like to mention a couple things about that:
1: I have no shame when it comes to my money. I spent money on that account and dammit, I wanted it back.
and
2: Everybody is complaining about them taking 5-7 days to reply. I would like you to notice the time I sent the message and the response time. A little over an hour later.

 

Yes it is a small sample reference, however all of the ones that have claimed being unbanned also claimed that they have put money into the game. I'm also assuming that the unbanned players kept all of their materials/credits/weapons/etc, which for some of these people is quite a lot (due to being able to edit the materials/credits received)

[Azure_Kytia]

Detestable though it is, I know I had my &#! saved by them Unbanning me once. Yes, there are malicious people out there, but I'd like to think they are the minority.

 

EDIT: I believe I just found the forum you got these from. D:

Edited July 8, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[WhereIsTheJustice]

Detestable though it is, I know I had my &#! saved by them Unbanning me once. Yes, there are malicious people out there, but I'd like to think they are the minority.

People legitimately being banned for no good reason is the minority, not the other way around. 

[Critter]

If an account gets banned for actually doing something wrong it needs to stay banned. If they're stupid enough to throw money at the game and then hack it they deserve every punishment they get.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Critter

[Psychocrazy]

and instead of giving people a trial we should just put all of them in prison because sometimes a trial lets a guilty person go free.

[Rengakun]

So you created an alt account to whistleblow?

 

Anyway, there really are some false positives out there. You can never be sure. We can't do much about this, nor can Support. Unless you feel like digging up those A-hole's personal information to warn Support with (Or even screw with them).

[Critter]

and instead of giving people a trial we should just put all of them in prison because sometimes a trial lets a guilty person go free.

Not even nearly the same thing. These are people who've been caught red handed.

[Phoenix86]

the problem is not "unbanning malicious ppl" is: they need to improve their detection system to be 100% sure what everyone of us potentially or practically did.

[Psychocrazy]

Not even nearly the same thing. These are people who've been caught red handed.

i feel like you have no idea how the legal system works.

 

i can go 60mph over the speed limit and with a good enough lawyer i won't even pay a speeding ticket. all it takes is something small like the police officer forgetting to calibrate his radar gun when it scheduled to be done.

[Azure_Kytia]

People legitimately being banned for no good reason is the minority, not the other way around. 

 

I suppose you're right, it's not like too many people accidentally launch Warframe with CE running in the background, not realizing that the anti-cheat is proactive, or just doing it mindlessly.

 

I'd like to see a more accurate and deterministic AC, myself. Then sure, let the lambs go to the slaughter >:D

Edited July 8, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[NinjaSylvy]

Sometimes honest mistakes do happen and in those cases, the support is required to solve the mistake. 
But then there are those players who legimately hacked their accounts with glee. I see those people as mere scum and those should be kept out of the community as long as possible. But then again, how do we know who really is the black sheep here?

[WhereIsTheJustice]

Detestable though it is, I know I had my &#! saved by them Unbanning me once. Yes, there are malicious people out there, but I'd like to think they are the minority.

 

EDIT: I believe I just found the forum you got these from. D:

It is easy to find by just pasting the quotes into a search engine, but I'm relatively sure I am not allowed to post the url directly.

 

 

i feel like you have no idea how the legal system works.

 

i can go 60mph over the speed limit and with a good enough lawyer i won't even pay a speeding ticket. all it takes is something small like the police officer forgetting to calibrate his radar gun when it scheduled to be done.

This is an anti-cheat system, not a national justice system. This is a video game, not real life. Completely different applications. 

Yes there are false positives, but those are a small margin of the legitimate bans. Being able to be unbanned by simply feigning ignorance (oh, my squad member did it, I didnt know!) is inexcusable, so is unbanning someone that admits they used cheats. Both of these examples are outlined in original post. If there are a few instances (aka few games, as in like 3~ [arbitrary number] games) where a player received large amounts of resources (credits,exp, materials), then I can understand that maybe it was unintentional (unknown to player that s/he was playing with a cheater.) But if it is constant, or fairly constant, then there is no excuse for unbanning someone. Doing so only shows incompetence on the person(s) responsible for overseeing support issues regarding bans.  

[ralwn]

These are quotes from cheaters on a sub-section dedicated to Warframe cheating on a cheating forum. 

 

Yes it is a small sample reference, however all of the ones that have claimed being unbanned also claimed that they have put money into the game. I'm also assuming that the unbanned players kept all of their materials/credits/weapons/etc, which for some of these people is quite a lot (due to being able to edit the materials/credits received)

As someone who got banned because the Auto-banner can't tell the difference between old hardware and an actual hack that gives an unfair advantage... I think you're an idiot to put so much faith in that piece of code

[Katakuna]

Having a generous support team is a double edged sword, sometimes.

[WhereIsTheJustice]

As someone who got banned because the Auto-banner can't tell the difference between old hardware and an actual hack that gives an unfair advantage... I think you're an idiot to put so much faith in that piece of code

Refer to latter of statement you quoted in regards to your argument. Also, proof? 

[Kasamoto]

EDIT: I believe I just found the forum you got these from. D:

 

Wow... That forum is... It's filled with... Disgusting

Edited July 8, 2013 by Kasamoto

[GetAtMeMods]

This will always anger me as a player/former hacker. 1) Freeloaders get a second chance and 2) they can't even make their own bypass.

[Keltik0ne]

I still find it really wierd that people will cheat in a game thats all about co-op pve.

 

I mean, BF and CoD are cesspits, but thier all about beating other people.

[WhereIsTheJustice]

I still find it really wierd that people will cheat in a game thats all about co-op pve.

 

I mean, BF and CoD are cesspits, but thier all about beating other people.

I'm more worried about cheaters hoarding mass amounts of credits/materials/bps for when trading comes out, would ruin the economy. 

[ralwn]

Refer to latter of statement you quoted in regards to your argument. Also, proof?

Refer to what?

I don't owe you proof, but I'll bite

http://i.imgur.com/gEPZaHu.png

Basically, get banned -> *I ask why* -> get a canned response -> *I ask for evidence, and to know who I was partied with at the time (in case someone on my friend's list had been hacking)*

So basically now, I get to play completely paranoid that I'll get another ban if I don't fully reinstall my entire client every week or whatever other ritual I decide to do to ward off a ban that can come again at any time. This is the auto-banner that you have so much faith in as to declare "Stop unbanning banned players". Yea cool, I can see why reading those posts can make you angry but not everyone that gets banned is guilty.

Edit: I am not running warframe on a potato per-say. This is video of me playing with 2gb of ram in case you want to see this mysterious voodoo computer configuration (that gets me banned) in action.

Edited July 8, 2013 by ralwn

[Blatantfool]

 If they where stupid enough to be banned once the odds are incredibly good they'll be that stupid again.

 

 Meanwhile - players banned over weird quirks or false positives are given a break.

[WhereIsTheJustice]

Refer to what?

I don't owe you proof, but I'll bite

http://i.imgur.com/gEPZaHu.png

Basically, get banned -> *I ask why* -> get a canned response -> *I ask for evidence, and to know who I was partied with at the time (in case someone on my friend's list had been hacking)*

So basically now, I get to play completely paranoid that I'll get another ban if I don't fully reinstall my entire client every week or whatever other ritual I decide to do to ward off a ban that can come again at any time. This is the auto-banner that you have so much faith in as to declare "Stop unbanning banned players". Yea cool, I can see why reading those posts can make you angry but not everyone that gets banned is guilty.

Edit: I am not running warframe on a potato per-say. This is video of me playing with 2gb of ram in case you want to see this mysterious voodoo computer configuration (that gets me banned) in action.

Burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, in this case you. No you don't owe anyone proof, but you are obligated to if you intend for someone to believe your claim. 

In regards to your image, it clearly states what the likely culprit is. The anti-cheat is not at fault, you are. 

[WhereIsTheJustice]

 If they where stupid enough to be banned once the odds are incredibly good they'll be that stupid again.

 

 Meanwhile - players banned over weird quirks or false positives are given a break.

Fact of the matter is players who used cheats are getting unbanned with their account intact (materials, credits, etc.) Hugely unfair when trading is implemented. 

[The_Lunatic_]

The hack detection is very poor at the moment.

 

A lot of people who should not be banned, get banned.

 

I got banned for speeding up a flash game and forgetting Warframe is running.

 

It happens, people are prone to mistakes.

 

Decent protection needs to be established so that people who aren't maliciously interacting with the game are the only people getting banned.

 

The only people who seem to support the current system are those who are simply unaware of how it works.

[Haldark]

I might remind you that the same subsection you're quoting is also the forum that had the thread "Use cheats in Online Games To Ban as Many People As Possible" or some such nonsense. Even though the majority of hackers aren't being those kinds of people, some are. Innocents can be banned and have been. 

 

Also, even though you say "this is a small sample", I think what you mean to say is "I couldn't find any more then this because the rest of them said 'test account(s)' and/or mentioned nothing about money." 

 

 

 I'm also assuming that the unbanned players kept all of their materials/credits/weapons/etc, which for some of these people is quite a lot (due to being able to edit the materials/credits received)

 

I only saw one person mention they kept their materials when being unbanned... I must just be blind.

 

There's no point of this thread even to exist. DE is (trying to) increasing hack detection/prevention slowly. Let them work out punishments and innocent bans. No one but DE has a say in how they will handle this. Get over it.