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k05h

Mutagen Sample farming guide for ODD (Orokin Derelict Defense)

Question

I have been running 30+ ODD missions since the Hema bomb dropped. I have learned a lot about mutagen sample farming from other players and my own experience. And I seem to answer the same questions every time I play.

How many waves?

I normally run 20 waves of ODD and that gives around 100 mutangen samples without any boosters. Because RNG also plays a role effective results may vary from 80-120 samples. I prefer to run 20 waves to balance out bad rng and because the ratio wave-length/mutagen-sample-drop does not get significantly better over time. Enemies in the first 20 waves do not require much work. Later waves will spawn a large number of Eximus units. 

1. The keys
The obvious thing first: build ODD keys and have them ready because there is always somebody that did forget building them.

2. The party
The most stressful part is setting up a party (D&D player here). Go into recruiting and search for a ODD party: "LF ODD [Mutagen Sample] farm"
If you do not find a party or you see some other tenno looking for ODD just invite them an create your own party. If you have your party setup but still do not have 4 players just use recruiting: "H ODD [Mutagen Sample] farm". Best time is for this are the evenings.

3. The minimal party (2 warframes)
The minimal party has at least two warframes. But be aware that you will get about 50% less drops in 20 waves. 
Nekros with 250% range and the despoil mod is the most important part of the party. 
Hydroid with decent range (100-150%), some efficiency, lots of strength and most importantly the pilfering swarm mod

The tactics:
Defend the pod and kill all enemies with slash weapons to increase the desecrate rate. Nekros uses desecrate all the time. Use Hydroid's tentacle swarm (pilfering) to catch the enemies. Enemies hold by tentacles can be killed without loosing the additional drop chance of pilfering swarm.
Recasting tentacle swarm when enemies walk through the general area of tentacles will catch them. Also recasting seems to do more initial damage to enemies (I could not find anything about that in the wiki). 

5. The perfect party (4 warframes)
Nekros with 250% range and the despoil mod is the most important part of the party. Just one nekros because they do not stack and one Nekros 250% range covers the whole area. 
Speed Nova with 40% power stregth and 250% duration
2 Hydroids with preferable limited range 70-100%, some efficiency, lots of strength and most importantly the pilfering swarm mod

The tactics:
Use speed nova to bring in the enemies much faster. Killing primed enemies will not interfere with Nekros desecrate. Nekros will run desecrate all the time. Use Hydroid's tentacle swarm (pilfering) to at catch the enemies. Enemies hold by tentacles can be killed without loosing the additional drop chance of pilfering swarm; same as before. Hydroid 1 uses his tentacle swarm for stairs leading upwards on the one side and Hydroid 2 uses his tentacle swarm for the stairs going down to the other side. Tentacles do not stack but with limited range you can create two separate areas with tentacle swarm and will get more enemies touched or killed by the tentacles. 
And as said above, recasting tentacle swarm seems to do more initial damage to enemies. 

A stationary shield osprey or an ancient healer specter make 20 waves trivial. A charming smeeta kavat, a drop chance booster and a drop rate booster will significantly increase mutagen sample drops. 

6. Dont bring ...
Dont bring Ember (Prime) when farming for mutagen sample. Crispy corpses cannot be desecrated.
Dont bring Trin (Prime) because we dont need her for 20 waves. Our Nekros does well on its own with despoil, Hydroid has his puddle to hide in when needed and Nova has her anitmatter bomb drop to do mass killings. 
Dont bring Frost (Prime) because we dont want to slow enemies down. The pod needs no protection because we have juicy tentacles for that job.
Dont bring Saryn (Prime) because she takes too long to kill enemies at later waves.
Dont bring Atlas with his ore gaze mod because it takes too long to petrify enemies. 

7. Use the time on ODD to level weapons
As long as you have at least one fully levelled weapon you can use the 20 waves for leveling the rest of your weapons. 

8. Try to stay sane - watch something on tv or listen to music
Doing ODD is interesting the first 5 times but when you have to farm thousend or tens of thousands of mutagen for your clan it is just boring. Listen to some music or watch some netflix on a second screen or tv will keep you sane. 

9. The result
20 waves with the perfect party will drop - depending on rng - something from 80-120 mutagen samples. This is without booster or kavat. With chance and drop rate booster 200-250 samples are what you are getting.

10. Mutagen samples / minute
Setting up a party can take 5-10 minutes. 20 waves will take 25-30 mintues with speed nova. You get 3-4 mutagen samples per minute play time without booster or 6-8 mutagen samples per minute play time with double booster. 

11. Additional loot
With 20 waves you will get some orokin cells and some more neurodes. That may not look much at first but doing ODD over and over again will have you drown those two rare ressources. Relic drops or small endo drops (80) are common for rotation A (5 and 10). Rotation B gives one Alad V Nav coordinate quite often and rotation C has a chance of giving a forma bp. Credit gains in ODD should be ignored. 

 

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Muh rain hahahaha

Good run, glad to be of use :D Also, for funsies, i'm currently trying to break my own 2hr ODS record with Nekros, wish me luck :D

Also, Phil Collins <3

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6 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

I think at certain point more enemies spawn, plus speed nova explosions no longer kill enemies if they are higher level. So that probably adds up.

I see, I see. That makes more sense.

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my nekros is alwayes on max range that is only build i use cz wen team call nekros they call him for loot....2 nekro 1 nova and bastile would be most effective...

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6 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

We are talking about numbers without boosters, so your claim isn't really useful.

even without booster its faster for "common" players then searching hours / days in lfr chats

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1 hour ago, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

Uhm, not sure about it, I'm actually farming with it and seems like a pretty solid option to me. Why are you disappointed?

45 base damage and a crappy stance on the whip vs 165 base damage and two awesome stances for the great sword.  It is no contest on which I'd rather use and which is more effective at killing.

Also I get tired of whips in general because I use the s.lecta a lot on my alt account to farm credits.  I'm not looking to use whips any more than that, as I said I think the stance is crap.

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37 minutes ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

As a complete aside the atterax is such a disappointment when compared to the galatine prime.  I don't know why any one would bother with the whip.  Seriously its like using the Mk1 Braton instead of the Soma prime.

 

Uhm, not sure about it, I'm actually farming with it and seems like a pretty solid option to me. Why are you disappointed?

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Honestly I'd suggest ODS over ODD, more spawns and thus more potential samples.

Also Slash doesn't do much since it doesn't break the Infested corpses up like Grineer and corpus (Still good against them in general though)

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49 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

If you are only getting 450 ish per 40 waves then you are averaging out to what I get doing a solo 20 minute run with a Nekros.

My numbers average to between 100-150 with spikes of 205 and dips of 86 (Thank you RNGesus) meaning your 3 or 4 man team in ODD is less efficient than me running ODS solo

It was not a very good run overall because we had almost a dry run between waves 30-35. I did not want to leave early because the party was fun and they wanted to do 40 waves. But I will give ODS a try but I will not spend any more plat on boosters after 30 days drop chance and double drop boosters. 

 

55 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

I would say switch it up, because you'll  burn out faster doing the same mode over and over. you can get the samples anywhere in the derelict, so maybe change modes occasionally to switch it up a bit.

You are right about burning out or bore-out in ODD. I will give ODS a try and I regulary do solo ODE for the fun of it.

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There is a lot of valuable info in this thread. Can you guys also show your kavat builds and answer a few questions regarding kavat armor and Health Conversion as I couldn't find the answers on the wiki. Especially:

1. Does Link Armor benefit from Health Conversion stacks?
2. Does Stand United aura applies after or before Health Conversion stacks?
3. If "yes" to both above then how does Stand United affect kavat with Link Armor? Does it "double dip" increasing both my armor before link and kavat's after link?

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1 minute ago, Devinee said:

even without booster its faster for "common" players then searching hours / days in lfr chats

Why would they need to look there? They are in a clan if they are grinding to get the Hema.

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11 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

Muh rain hahahaha

Good run, glad to be of use :D Also, for funsies, i'm currently trying to break my own 2hr ODS record with Nekros, wish me luck :D

Also, Phil Collins <3

I guess that's definitely doable with Atterax, but you'll just to have the Kavat go at a certain point!

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On 1/24/2017 at 4:19 PM, k05h said:

6. Dont bring ...
Dont bring Ember (Prime) when farming for mutagen sample. Crispy corpses cannot be desecrated.

Disintegrated corpses by Nova, Ember, etc. can still be desecrated. While they seem invisible, the corpses re-appear and suddenly disappears when desecrated.

 

On 1/24/2017 at 8:08 PM, ChuckMaverick said:

For mindless grinding I think ODD has the edge.

Based on experience, the drop rates of Mutagen Samples are the same for any enemy killed in ODS and ODD.  ODS has an edge since there is no waiting time... the enemies will just keep coming.  In the same amount of time, it is possible to kill more enemies in ODS than ODD since you need not wait for a wave to start.  It is also easy to maintain the melee combo counter in ODS than ODD, making your melee damage "scale" better than the incoming enemy levels.

My only problem with ODS in public matchmaking is that some Tennos could wander far away from you that you lose the potential loot/desecrate from their kills.

 

On 1/24/2017 at 4:19 PM, k05h said:

5. The perfect party (4 warframes)

Any squad of four warframes with one Nekros will do.  As long as you all stay together (probably just run back and forth a narrow corridor), you need not build a Nekros with a high range. Bring fast high slash melee weapons (e.g. Orthos Prime or Galatine Prime) to slice the corpses for more loot.  It is better to be up close and personal to ensure that you get the loot from the kills.  Keep your melee combo up to make short work of high level enemies.

 

On 1/24/2017 at 4:19 PM, k05h said:

7. Use the time on ODD to level weapons

ODS is still better than ODD provided you stay together.  But for levelling-up weapons, you may be better of on Sedna (Hydron) or Lua (Stofler).

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2 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

Honestly I'd suggest ODS over ODD, more spawns and thus more potential samples.

Also Slash doesn't do much since it doesn't break the Infested corpses up like Grineer and corpus (Still good against them in general though)

this^ ODS with two or more Nekros and you can get a lot of samples in a 40 min run, especially with Boosters on. regarding Slash, you can still cut Runners and Leapers in half, but because the other infested aren't using the human enemy skeleton ( Crawlers, Chargers and Ancients), they can't be eviscerated.

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7 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Calling BS on that; my clan ran 40 minutes with a Hydroid/Nekros team for 40 minutes and we only got 60 or so each

If you see the testing pictures I posted before in this thread, those numbers are definitely possible but I'd say 90% with a booster; in 20 minutes solo with Nekros I got 90-116-190, all depending on the Smeeta job.

150 without boosters would mean being RNGesus cousin(Smeeta going perma Charm) or being dreaming.

 

Speaking of ODS, if you were to solo it, what room would you aim for to camp and get consistent spawn?

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Alright, made a quick test trying to get a "perfect" ODD run; the team was not perfect and one of us crashed and came back after a couple of waves, but still the run was solid enough to be taken as sample.

Team was:

Hydroid(Pilfering, Stretch only)

Nekros(despoil full range)

Banshee

Speed Nova

As you can see, the team was ok but definitely not perfect; these are the results for 40 waves, ofc both boosters are up, no Kavat tho.

jL3UQS0.jpg

I think that in a team ODD is best as you don't have to worry about spawns, time, range and such, while solo is clearly not an option and ODS shine in that case.

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I would like to thanks to@Sir_Alex_Traffo, that he made research for us and put real numbers here.

Nova?  As for me, I'm still degenerate thanks to tons of runs to reach Rot C with Ember p bp asap, but this is farming. We are not sure about MP effect but 100% is, that she is not a Looter so she occupied 1 spot. Let's simplify: Drop was 500 MS with 2 Looters, 250/Looter, missing another 250 MS when there is Nova instead of another Looter.

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

this^ ODS with two or more Nekros and you can get a lot of samples in a 40 min run, especially with Boosters on. regarding Slash, you can still cut Runners and Leapers in half, but because the other infested aren't using the human enemy skeleton ( Crawlers, Chargers and Ancients), they can't be eviscerated.

Do you have numbers on the drops? Maybe ODD is the wrong way for farming. Yesterday I ran 40 waves ODD with booster and a very good team but got "only" 450 mutagen samples. 

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1 hour ago, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

EDIT: did a second run, 116 on minute 20, 142 on minute 25. Now, considering a good 40 waves run like the one I did before takes 45 minutes, so far I'd say ODD is still the most efficent way to farm, though ODS is an awesome solo option.

The difference in sample amounts makes perfect sense since in the ODD setup you all are talking about there is a necros and a hydroid in action whereas the solo survival is only a nekros.  Three drops per enemy rather than two is going to add up especially when the difference is ~4500 enemies killed (3300 by hydriod) vs 900 [numbers from your screen shots].

FWIW, 900 kills is low.  Either your choice of location was bad or the spawn rate on solo is just that bad.  Take a buddy next time to increase the spawns.  Even better take the same ODD squad into ODS and find a good spot to camp.

My point is I really don't thing ODD is any better then ODS so play which ever you like.  It is a simple matter of killing infinite infested - this farm is a just numbers game.

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22 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Honestly I'd suggest ODS over ODD, more spawns and thus more potential samples.

ODS is provably much, much slower for the same number of mutagen samples

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7 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Honestly I'd suggest ODS over ODD, more spawns and thus more potential samples.

Also Slash doesn't do much since it doesn't break the Infested corpses up like Grineer and corpus (Still good against them in general though)

We tryed ODS but the amount of samples was smaller than from ODD, you know RNG, so i would suggest do some test runs and decide which one would you rather do. 

We managed to get the 50K in a fairly short time, without much complaining, just 2-3 runs daily, like 3-4 clan groups.  We have like 10 active vets so each of them had over 2k samples ready which helped a lot.

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7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

ODS is provably much, much slower for the same number of mutagen samples

Eh we've found it faster you just have to find the right spot that has multiple spawn points around a central room. Where as ODD have a set limit per round.

I can run a solo Nekros from 20 minutes and get between 100-150 per run and I've donated somewhere around 5000 not including what I had on hand when the Hema dropped.

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Smeeta can add an extra 20 to 40 samples over 20 waves, with the potential for many more if you are lucky enough to stack resource doublers.  Just put animal instinct on your smeeta and you won't miss any drops. Vacuum is unecessary because your team should be concentrating all the kills in a small area and defense gives plenty of time to collect loot.  I can't believe that people are still farming without smeeta.

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Solid guide, though we usually(my clan) run for at least 40 waves as the drops increase by a lot during the 20-40+; I'd say with a good Hydroid build you can decently stay up until wave 55, then a Banshee would be needed; perfect runs grant us around 450 mutagens for 40 waves, never less than 360-400 anyway.

Not sure about Smeeta, while the boost is awesome, not having Vacuum resulted in usually being the one with the less Mutagens at the end of the run.

Totally agree on ODD instead of ODS, easier and more efficent, with high risk of falling asleep tho.

Just a question tho, why 2 Hydroids and not 2 Nekros?

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4 minutes ago, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

Solid guide, though we usually(my clan) run for at least 40 waves as the drops increase by a lot during the 20-40+; I'd say with a good Hydroid build you can decently stay up until wave 55, then a Banshee would be needed; perfect runs grant us around 450 mutagens for 40 waves, never less than 360-400 anyway.

Just a question tho, why 2 Hydroids and not 2 Nekros?

Hydroids tenticals can only snatch so many guys, so having two of them means less can bleed through where as a second Nekros won't really speed things up since they can only desicrate a body once.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

The difference in sample amounts makes perfect sense since in the ODD setup you all are talking about there is a necros and a hydroid in action whereas the solo survival is only a nekros.  Three drops per enemy rather than two is going to add up especially when the difference is ~4500 enemies killed (3300 by hydriod) vs 900 [numbers from your screen shots].

FWIW, 900 kills is low.  Either your choice of location was bad or the spawn rate on solo is just that bad.  Take a buddy next time to increase the spawns.  Even better take the same ODD squad into ODS and find a good spot to camp.

My point is I really don't thing ODD is any better then ODS so play which ever you like.  It is a simple matter of killing infinite infested - this farm is a just numbers game.

With the testing spree still pumping, I went ahead with another run and the results were quite incredible; I'd say the number of kills was not particularly low(especially since Atterax was just formaed), but RNG can heavily affect the results, as per below, 20 minutes:

6sXQr61.png

 

The Kavat went literally crazy in the first minutes and it provided insane amounts of resources; that said, such numbers are definitely possible, but not really likely to happen.

I kept on going until minute 40, then I extracted:

SPctPXN.jpg

The amount is still pretty high, but not worth the time as it didn't doubled from wave 20(again, because of RNG).

Team VS Solo is not even a comparison, as you pointed out, but I just needed to check if ODS solo was an option in the first place; I still think ODD is best for me when farming with clanmates, mainly because it just needs way less effort, but I can see how ODS is probably the best way to properly farm, if RNG allows that.

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