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Player to Player AUCTION HOUSE


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7 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

...and that's exactly the problem.

If you and many others were to dump your 200+ prime parts each onto an auction house, the market would collapse.

Very well sir, can you please explain how that is going to happen? Please, just humor me for a while.

 

4 hours ago, RainbowFlash said:

Put this in your browser: http://warframe.market/ .

You're wellcome.

This is exactly the deal... If your playerbase has to resort to a third party off-game website for in-game content exchange, then something is definitely very very wrong...

 

7 hours ago, schilds said:

They are telling us that it is meant to be exhausting. They do not intend to facilitate trading as a core gameplay element for progressing through the game.

Ultimately the choice is theirs, of course... But it is only in their best interest, if the game has a trading system that the user... enjoys using. I personally have decided to never buy plat(bought 1k a few times before)again, ever, only and specifically, because of the horrible trade system, currently in the game... I loathe that Sh*t!

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5 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

Very well sir, can you please explain how that is going to happen? Please, just humor me for a while.

Basic economics, if you flood the market with a large supply of products and demand doesn't rise to meet that new supply, prices will plummet,

You can collect an infinite amount of prime parts, mods, sculptures, etc. all it takes is time and running more missions, but you only need one of each, so supply will inevitably outstrip demand.

As things stand currently, the effort of manually completing trades acts as 'friction' in the system, and ensures prices don't fall too low. No one is going to spend a significant amount of time in trade chat just to sell a single junk prime part for 1 plat, but with an auction house there's no real effort involved and the price of items will reflect that.

Being able to trade a reasonable amount of in-game effort for a reasonable amount of plat is a big part of what keep the 'free' method of playing Warframe viable. Anything that threatens that balance is dangerous to the future of the game.

5 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

This is exactly the deal... If your playerbase has to resort to a third party off-game website for in-game content exchange, then something is definitely very very wrong...

I use third-party websites to supplement my playing experience in many parts of the game, not just trading.

There's the Wikia for comprehensive and detailed information, YouTube for first impressions of new frames / weapons and for builds, etc.

This isn't a bad thing.

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3 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Basic economics, if you flood the market with a large supply of products and demand doesn't rise to meet that new supply, prices will plummet,

You mean like it already has?! I mean, take a good look, prices of content have already plummeted due to high supply and low demand... If we are talking about prime parts, then the only ones that have not plumeted yet, are those that are vaulted(since you can no longer farm those) and the newly released ones(coz they are new). Pretty much everything other than that you can buy dirt cheap, because if you don't sell it for 'dirt cheap' nobody will buy... Its that simple.

Now, since we are on the topic of ''basic economics'', i would like to ask you a very simple question, which is:

Does it matter if you are selling hundreds of a single prime part(or whatever else) if its price cannot drop under the items common lowest value?

I will give you a basic example... Lets say there are about a few milion Ash Prime Systems being sold in the Marketplace, does it matter that there is such a quantity of said item being sold, if it is being sold at a common plat price? I don't think so... The important thing is not how much of item X is being sold, the important thing is the price of item X being sold.

Now assuming you catch up to what i am trying to explain(in very simple terms), It does not matter if the supply is ten times, or a hundred times more than the demand, all that you, or rather DE, should concern themselves with is the price of the items being sold. Thus it would make very good sense if DE fix the trade system, it is in their best interest, really...

You know... there is a bottom line here... In the current system players can sell an item for whatever price they want, which potentially gives the possibility of prices to plummet(which you obviously don't want to happen, which it is happening), whereas in a market, every, and i mean every aspect of transactions can be monitored and most importantly controlled. A Marketplace is a system that can and will controll, and by all means limit the transactions that occur whithin it... price, quantity, amount sold per day, you name it...

3 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

You can collect an infinite amount of prime parts, mods, sculptures, etc. all it takes is time and running more missions, but you only need one of each, so supply will inevitably outstrip demand.

Yes, you can collect large amounts of prime parts, mods, etc etc... Now, that is not a big issue as long as there are new people coming into the game( btw new people coming into the game, im absolutely sure they are going to simply LOVE the new system, cuz it is to easy and simple to use, and you just want to go back to use it again all the time). Sorry bout that little rant there...

So yea, alot of what is being sold is single use only, you buy it and you forget about it, this is true... There are ways to change/ fix that(if you like i can disclose one), but it is not that much of a deal, i think. Its about you wanting to sell an item, so far i am so disgusted with the trade system i don't want to sell stuff, this is how bad it is... I want to sell my stuff, but not whith this sh*t... call it entitlement if you want, but i literally cannot stand to use the current trade system. I'd rather put my 'stuff' for sale with about 0.01% of it selling and go back to actually playing the game, rather than sit for hoursupon end on my hands in the tradechat, possibly without even selling that prime crap... But idk, maybe thats just me...

4 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

As things stand currently, the effort of manually completing trades acts as 'friction' in the system, and ensures prices don't fall too low. No one is going to spend a significant amount of time in trade chat just to sell a single junk prime part for 1 plat, but with an auction house there's no real effort involved and the price of items will reflect that.

Except, it is not working! Alot is being sold dirt cheap because the supply is multiple times larger than the demand, and the current system cannot control the lowest sell price of items being sold, thus everything is continuously droping in plat cost until it reaches the bottom of the barrel...

Let me ask you something else, are you personally ok with spending hours, to trade, instead of playing? Do you find it amusing, or would you prefer a market place where trading does not induce a mental coma? Like i said, the marketplace can have a limiting factor to an item's lowest price, so you can easily avoid prices plummiting by lots of supply.

4 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Being able to trade a reasonable amount of in-game effort for a reasonable amount of plat is a big part of what keep the 'free' method of playing Warframe viable.

Anything that threatens that balance is dangerous to the future of the game.

First one. Yes, and in the current system... you can spend hours of farming an item, just so you can go into trade chat and find out that nobody will buy that item unless you sell it for a low amount of plat, and even if you want to sell something for say 50p and you make that known in your WTS post I bet you that your first few(possibly all) offers will be ''45p?'', and then you have to listen to some made up story as to why you should sell your item for a lower price than you wanted...

Second one. Then you should shout 'Praise the Marketplace' at the top of your lungs, unless you decide to continue to stay blind... The choice is yours...

4 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

I use third-party websites to supplement my playing experience in many parts of the game, not just trading.

There's the Wikia for comprehensive and detailed information, YouTube for first impressions of new frames / weapons and for builds, etc.

This isn't a bad thing.

Alright, thats a good point, i personally have always traded within games, so i have come to expect transactions to be arranged within the said game. Then again it is made(the third party trade site) for a reason, wouldn't you agree? If the in-game trading was not so bad, there would be no need of such sites, plus lets not forget something very important, you use those third-party sites for information about the game, not for trading, there is a difference...

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5 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

plus lets not forget something very important, you use those third-party sites for information about the game, not for trading, there is a difference...

warframe.market and other such sites aren't used for trading either, they're used for information about who wants to trade what and for how much, the trading still happens in-game.

(I'm not ignoring your other points about the economy, I'll come back to them later when I have time to give a full response.)

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4 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

warframe.market and other such sites aren't used for trading either, they're used for information about who wants to trade what and for how much, the trading still happens in-game.

''Trading information'' Alright, fair enough.

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14 hours ago, DocVev said:

your picture is great... but doesnt fit.. this is a picture of Monetary Exchange PROFESSIONALS... replace that with soldiers... completely unusable!

A vote against Auction is fine, but we NEED OFFLINE SALES in some form.  Who in their right mind sends soldiers to stand in a room and yell prices of crap.  we are lucky you cant get in a bar fight at Maroos

DocVev

No we do NOT need offline sales. Trading in WF didn't even always exist, you were supposed to get all your own gear, So sure now we have limited trading but WF is a VERY finite game, rivens not withstanding,  and each veteran player can have 5 or even 10 of EVERYTHING in the game ( I don't think there is an unvaluted prime set I don't have 10 or more of, or a mod I don't have 10 or more of or have sold 10 or more of), which means an offline sales auction house means every single new player can start with all the currently accessible prime frames for practically nothing in terms of buying plat (bad for DE).

There are literally thousands of players with inventory that they would sell but can't be bothered to. If you create an auction house they will all sell it. That means prices go through the floor for everything. That means existing plat in players inventory becomes more valuable (it can buy many more things) which is a net loss for DE. It means a player who wants XYZ gear and decides to buy it for plat has to buy much less plat from DE to do so.

Offline Auction houses will be bad for DE's bottom line, and frankly bad for the game. Everything will be available to the new player for pennies.

If you want to sell things you have to do the selling. If you want to buy them you have to do the buying and put in effort. That's part of this game.

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But it is only in their best interest, if the game has a trading system that the user... enjoys using.

That's not certain. It will attract the type of person who enjoys more sophisticated trading gameplay, while repelling others. Part of the issue with trading, unlike other systems, is that it naturally affects (or is entangled with) other systems within the game.

For example, if they modify archwing there are few effects outside of archwing. Same for pvp. However, listen to the howls of anguish the moment they make archwing or pvp necessary for something in the rest of the game.

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2 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

No we do NOT need offline sales. Trading in WF didn't even always exist, you were supposed to get all your own gear, So sure now we have limited trading but WF is a VERY finite game, rivens not withstanding,  and each veteran player can have 5 or even 10 of EVERYTHING in the game ( I don't think there is an unvaluted prime set I don't have 10 or more of, or a mod I don't have 10 or more of or have sold 10 or more of)

Its not just about veterans, it is about everybody, as it is everybody that can and would benefit from trading, just because a veteran player has 10 of everything and does not care about trading anymore does not mean that everybody else should aswell...

2 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

an offline sales auction house means every single new player can start with all the currently accessible prime frames for practically nothing in terms of buying plat (bad for DE).

Oh?! Because the people with lots of plat in the game right now cannot buy item X with their platinum, traded, or bought?! So, basically what you are saying is that: ''If we have a marketplace new people coming into the game who buy plat from DE can buy Weapons, frames, etc... basically... 'buy power' with bought plat'' Wake up, you can already do that. Buy plat from DE go into trade chat and buy every prime part you want, it does not matter if you are new, or an old player, you can already do this, or maybe you will like to disagree?? The only thershold is mastery rank and the size of your pocket...

2 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

There are literally thousands of players with inventory that they would sell but can't be bothered to. If you create an auction house they will all sell it. That means prices go through the floor for everything. That means existing plat in players inventory becomes more valuable (it can buy many more things) which is a net loss for DE.

You are very fond of parroting other people's nonsense aren't you?! Maybe think outside the box for a second?! And what if you cannot sell an item in said marketplace for less than, for the sake of argument: Nova Prime Systems for less than 40p, what then?! Its price cannot drop under that value... no ''price plummet''... Mind blown?!

The only reason DE do not change the current system, despite the fact alot of things for sale are dirt cheap, is because people are so disgusted from the method of trading that they avoid trading entirely and either: buy plat; farmtheir item; leave game...

3 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

Offline Auction houses will be bad for DE's bottom line, and frankly bad for the game. Everything will be available to the new player for pennies.

No, they wont. They will be a very good thing, not only for DE, but for the playerbase, the whole playerbase(excluding scammers) aswell.

When you say: ''Everything will be available to the new player for pennies.''

I'm assuming you are talking about the current state of the trade chat? If so, this is true!

3 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

If you want to sell things you have to do the selling. If you want to buy them you have to do the buying and put in effort. That's part of this game.

Hahah... you decided to be funny with that statement?? Oh, how hard it is to go to the trade chat and write ''WTB item X'' and atleast 2 people will almost imediately pm to sell you, and then another 10, roughly, oh the humanity... Seriously tho, do you honestly belive that the WTB part of the trade chat has it as hard as the WTS part?!

You do?!

The door is over there!

Get out!

1 hour ago, schilds said:

That's not certain. It will attract the type of person who enjoys more sophisticated trading gameplay, while repelling others. Part of the issue with trading, unlike other systems, is that it naturally affects (or is entangled with) other systems within the game.

Pff cmon now... cmon... trading is sophisticated now? Since when exactly? Its not ''sophisticated', it is just boring beyond belief, you have to spend hours on end looking at flashing text, hoping for lady luck to lend you a hand... I would not enjoy doing this sh*t even if i was being paid money for it, im supposed to play the game... not watch flashing walls of text all day long...

Also, was it not you that said DE dont intend trading to be a main goal in the game? And yet, currently players must delv hours into it if they want to make that plat. How does that work again? This is kinda nitpicky, but there it is...

 

1 hour ago, schilds said:

For example, if they modify archwing there are few effects outside of archwing. Same for pvp. However, listen to the howls of anguish the moment they make archwing or pvp necessary for something in the rest of the game.

Except, trading is already a necessity for alot of the playerbase... The game is free to play, yet the alternative to platinum aquisition(trade) is so disgusting, it literally pushes you into outright buying plat... But the thing is... in the Marketplace you will buy items with plat aswell... The issue is not so much DE not seeing the problem, it is that the community just prefers to bare the burden, sort of speak... DE will monetize regardless of Marketplace, or not, players gimping themselves to be happy is another issue tho... Go figure...

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Pff cmon now... cmon... trading is sophisticated now?

I'm pretty sure my comment about being sophisticated was in the context of an upgraded trading system.

 

This is essentially a question of gameplay and the activities that players and devs want players to engage in. You clearly enjoy trading games. Others don't. Different people enjoy different things, go figure? The people who enjoy trading and want to do a lot of it argue for better systems, those who don't enjoy trading (and wouldn't even if the system better facilitated it) don't want it to be a major part of the game.

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Auction houses using currency bought with IRL cash have proven very bad for other games, it crashes the economy and eventually gets controlled by "Whales".  We would need to use a currency that can only be acquired in-game. Credits are also able to be exchanged using plat (albeit at a horrible exchange rate).  I doubt DE really wants to go such lengths just to use an auction house. It would require a brand new currency, cant be exchanged with anything either in-game like resources or credits, cant be abused by outside influences like real cash or plat, and cant be grinded endlessly for.   

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30 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

Its not just about veterans, it is about everybody, as it is everybody that can and would benefit from trading, just because a veteran player has 10 of everything and does not care about trading anymore does not mean that everybody else should aswell...

It is not that veterans aren't' interested you misunderstood, it's that there would immediately be 100s of everything for sale, which means plummeting prices to near 0 for almost everything.

31 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

 

Oh?! Because the people with lots of plat in the game right now cannot buy item X with their platinum, traded, or bought?! So, basically what you are saying is that: ''If we have a marketplace new people coming into the game who buy plat from DE can buy Weapons, frames, etc... basically... 'buy power' with bought plat'' Wake up, you can already do that. Buy plat from DE go into trade chat and buy every prime part you want, it does not matter if you are new, or an old player, you can already do this, or maybe you will like to disagree?? The only thershold is mastery rank and the size of your pocket...

New players wouldn't NEED a lot of plat. That is the point. Mods would be 1p, prime sets would be next to nothing. Everything would be for sale cheap. That means buying 300p would be all one would need to buy everything you want (which would take maybe 3000p as it is now) and bypass playing the game. DE want's people to play the game, they want people to buy more plat. Thus an auction house that would allow new players to buy everything they want for much less plat than they can now is bad for DE (and the game). DE actually would prefer inflation of plat prices not deflation.

35 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

You are very fond of parroting other people's nonsense aren't you?! Maybe think outside the box for a second?! And what if you cannot sell an item in said marketplace for less than, for the sake of argument: Nova Prime Systems for less than 40p, what then?! Its price cannot drop under that value... no ''price plummet''... Mind blown?!

I'm parroting nobody. However you solution is Impossible, really, as trading between friends and clan members for any price will always be a thing. DE can't really set a minimum price for all things without severely screwing with people who play with friends and give away things for free on occasion. Nothing for less than the minimum EVER would be a huge change.  It would also mean that if I coulding find X prime part due to RNG and you could not find Y prime part we couldn't trade part for part unless they had the same min value.  If you limited just the auction house to a minimum, everything would be at that minimum and face to face trades outside the auction house would always be for less, so unless you policed every single trade, including item for item trading, this is simply isn't possible.

 

The rest of your response is either insults or vague.. The bottom line is you can make enough plat for slots from trade chat now. You can make enough to play for free. Selling does take time, like everything else in the game if you don't want to take the time you can bypass the time sink and just buy the plat.  Auction houses would be bad for DE, DE knows this, which is why they have said on several occasions they don't' want one, aren't going to make one and don't want to facilitate trade as a major part of the game. They know what they are doing. If an auction house would drive plat sales they would already have one.

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To clear things up, we are using the word "trading" in two ways here:

a) a simple act of exchanging items

b) a game of buying items low and selling them high, maximising profit, accumulating stock, keeping track of markets, etc.

 

(a) facilitates two things:

1) the acquisition of items to use in other game systems, e.g. combat

2) trading as a game, i.e. (b) above

 

Perhaps this leads to a contradiction from people who say they don't like trading. Doesn't that mean they would love a system that lets them spend little time doing it? Not necessarily, because:

i) that changes the weighting of options in a decision between acquiring an item from trading or missions - the "meta", if you like

ii) it leads to a greater emphasis on the gameplay of (b)

 

People typically want to both do their best (demonstrate good/efficient/smart decision making) and engage in whatever gameplay they enjoy. So it is logical to argue for game rules that match the reward for what is deemed good play to the desired gameplay.

This is similar to why in arguments about aoe meta, proposals that people who don't like aoe deliberately hold back, don't resonate. If X is the most efficient way to get something, you will hear lots of "I feel forced to X" vs "nobody is forcing you, if you don't want to X, don't". When the decisions that are rewarded don't lead to (or stem from) activities that people want to engage in, they are torn between their desire to make good decisions under the rules, or to make poor decisions that nevertheless result in/from activities they enjoy.

This leads to the kind of apparent contradiction that arises from mixing system user and system design perspectives. 

 

In any case, games are all pretty much about being deliberately "gimped" and working within rules and restrictions :-P.

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20 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

The only way auction houses work in MMOs without destroying the economy is if you have all your sources and sinks of currency and items/resources very finely balanced.

The Warframe economy is a long way from that ideal.

Games with strong vertical progression (like WoW) can get away with it to some degree, but games like Warframe with a mostly horizontal progression model suffer badly.

best explanation possible

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11 hours ago, schilds said:

I'm pretty sure my comment about being sophisticated was in the context of an upgraded trading system.

Actually, it was not, nice try tho... and even if it was, the marketplace isnt going to be sophisticated either.

11 hours ago, schilds said:

This is essentially a question of gameplay and the activities that players and devs want players to engage in.

I have no idea how you can possibly say that, considering, in the current trade process you need to spend hours, basically engage into trade, so obviously it is core of the ''gameplay'', but not really... and yet you did not adress this part of my argument... slick...

11 hours ago, schilds said:

You clearly enjoy trading games.

What I want, is to NOT watch flashing text endlessly, just so i can sell my NovaP Systems for 10 fckin plat, thank you very much...

No, i just want an enjoyable trade method in a videogame. Is that too much to ask for?! Apparently so...

11 hours ago, schilds said:

Others don't.

I have come to realise that this is the main problem... touche!

12 hours ago, schilds said:

The people who enjoy trading and want to do a lot of it argue for better systems, those who don't enjoy trading (and wouldn't even if the system better facilitated it) don't want it to be a major part of the game.

Who the fck does not want to enjoy their trading? If you are gonna delv into trading, i think it only makes sense if you would like to have a good time doing it, in a videogame no less... dam dem masochists...

It is in your best of interest to want to trade, except for if you have pockets that never end.

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)MrOrionQuestHD said:

Auction houses using currency bought with IRL cash have proven very bad for other games, it crashes the economy and eventually gets controlled by "Whales".  We would need to use a currency that can only be acquired in-game. Credits are also able to be exchanged using plat (albeit at a horrible exchange rate).  I doubt DE really wants to go such lengths just to use an auction house. It would require a brand new currency, cant be exchanged with anything either in-game like resources or credits, cant be abused by outside influences like real cash or plat, and cant be grinded endlessly for.   

But it is just currency, right? IRL cash or not, its just numericals tied to transactions in a videogame, as long as it can be controlled... and it can be controlled!

11 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

It is not that veterans aren't' interested you misunderstood, it's that there would immediately be 100s of everything for sale, which means plummeting prices to near 0 for almost everything.

Beeep... Wrong! You must enter price above 40p!

100 people selling to 1 person something with a near common price seems fine to me, as this only means that if you are the one selling you have 1% for your item to be bought.

Did i misunderstand? You worded it like you are a veteran, have 10 of every prime part and 10 of every mod, and so you don't care as much. Atleast that's what you said...

11 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

New players wouldn't NEED a lot of plat. That is the point. Mods would be 1p, prime sets would be next to nothing. Everything would be for sale cheap. That means buying 300p would be all one would need to buy everything you want (which would take maybe 3000p as it is now) and bypass playing the game.

Sir, you must enter a value above 10p to sell your mod, try again.

Its funny how you try to argue my point without validating the fact, that the prices will be controlled. Not cool bro... You prolly want me to argue what you just wrote up with a straight face, dont you? You are funny...

Btw when you say: ''Everything would be for sale cheap.''

You mean like it is ALREADY?! Now pretend you did not see this, just keep scrolling...

11 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

DE want's people to play the game, they want people to buy more plat.

If they really want people to ''play the game'' then they SHOULD change the trade system! Watching a clusterf*ck of text flashing is not ''gameplay''! Now pretend you did not see this part of my post, it will fit the agenda...

11 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

Thus an auction house that would allow new players to buy everything they want for much less plat than they can now is bad for DE (and the game).

Actually it is the other way around and... uhh, why am i even trying at this point...

11 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

I'm parroting nobody.

No you are just ''flailing about helplessly''. Admire dat!

12 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

However you solution is Impossible, really, as trading between friends and clan members for any price will always be a thing. DE can't really set a minimum price for all things without severely screwing with people who play with friends and give away things for free on occasion.

Oh look, it is impossible because ''you cannot trade stuff for free between friends and clan members''...

Except, i did not say anything about the trade chat being scrapped, you made that up yourself. The trade chat won't be scrap'd, it won't be the clusterfck of text so players could easily exchange item for item as per usual there... So, yea... it is not ''impossible'', it just requires 'thinking outside the box'. Remember that line? Except it is not that, it is just common sense...

12 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

Nothing for less than the minimum EVER would be a huge change.

It will not only be a huge change but a positive change, a huge positive change...

12 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

It would also mean that if I coulding find X prime part due to RNG and you could not find Y prime part we couldn't trade part for part unless they had the same min value.  If you limited just the auction house to a minimum, everything would be at that minimum and face to face trades outside the auction house would always be for less, so unless you policed every single trade, including item for item trading, this is simply isn't possible.

I already adressed the item for item part.

''Everything would be at that minimum'' And? What?! If that minimum is reasonable, who tf cares?! It will definitely be better than it is now!

It's not policed, it's controlled... fear not the marketplace system has it covered!

~It is very possible, you just have to look at this with a little bit of an open mind sir, coz if you do, you will realise that it is not only possible, but positive aswell...

12 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

The rest of your response is either insults or vague..

Ok look, sometimes i go too far on the condescending part, but first of all, it is mainly sarcastic... second, i did not say a SINGLE ''insult'' to offend you! If you are going to play the victim card, as to dismiss my arguments, im going to just ignore you, alright? You don't want to look at this with a non-biased point of view, so it wont be any kind of loss...

12 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

The bottom line is you can make enough plat for slots from trade chat now. You can make enough to play for free.

It does not come down to just buying slots... It is free to play, yet forces you to buy plat all the time, and just to note, the marketplace will too, but you wont be 'balls to the wall' forced to buy plat, plus it will fix item prices, and will be enjoyable... Am i speaking an alien language, or something? I'm starting to get that notion...

Furthermore, hey now don't misuse my line! ''The bottom line is'' dont use it without making a proper bottom line... it is so vile...

12 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

Selling does take time, like everything else in the game if you don't want to take the time you can bypass the time sink and just buy the plat. 

It is not just a ''time sink'' as you make it out to be... It is 'Watching a clusterfck of flashing endless text, trying to sort it out to make a transaction'... how about No.

''just buy the plat'' OR I can just NEVER spend a single coin on it, OR leave the fckin game... You need to consider these options even more so, when talking about new players... and I'm not a new player...

12 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

Auction houses would be bad for DE, DE knows this, which is why they have said on several occasions they don't' want one, aren't going to make one and don't want to facilitate trade as a major part of the game.

And of course why would they?! Why would they bother putting work to make something... when they are going to monetize regardless of Marketplace, or not... The playerbase is non the wiser, so why waste their time?! They have better things to do, right?! Like the Bard frame! Yea! The trade system is in chaos but who the fck cares about that sh*t?! Pff...

You have to actually want to have a better time, to be given a better time... if the community does not care as much, then ofc things will always stay the same... You have to be able to see the problem to try to fix it, it is the first step.

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13 hours ago, kleerr2 said:

And what if you cannot sell an item in said marketplace for less than, for the sake of argument: Nova Prime Systems for less than 40p, what then?! Its price cannot drop under that value... no ''price plummet''... Mind blown?!

If centrally set minimum prices were enforced on an auction house, people would just undercut those prices in trade chat.

Good luck shifting your Nova Prime Systems that is listed on the auction house for 40p alongside hundreds of other identically priced lots. Even if one does sell, the chance that it'll be yours that sells is tiny.

And all the smart buyers will be buying the item for 30-35p in trade chat from sellers who want to ensure that they get the plat and don't want to rely on the AH lottery.

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On 25/01/2017 at 0:35 PM, DocVev said:

no i dont mean out of game, i mean INGAME

like WoW auction house (its been 10 years, but it must still be there)

or ESO GUILD traders

etc.

I had a good way they could make it work without crashing the market. As well as bringing clans and alliances more together.

 

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I literally just want to be able to trade like in the Pokemon GTS. List an item over your head, but also have it say what you want for the item next to it. 

 

I don't use the bazaar trading purely because I see "Selling Nova prime set" and literally nothing else over the persons head, like the game expects me to offer the person for the items, or you know.. talk to them. I'm not there for talking, I'm there for buying. If I wanted to chat I'd be in chat, or in clan chat, or squad chat. Not trade chat. 

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Actually, it was not, nice try tho... and even if it was, the marketplace isnt going to be sophisticated either.

Actually, it was, nice try tho...

If I say something is "bigger", that doesn't mean it used to be big, or even that is big now, it just means it has grown, relatively. If I say something is "more sophisticated" than it used to be, that's an expression of relative sophistication, it's moving from the less sophisticated end of the scale to the more sophisticated end.

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I have no idea how you can possibly say that, considering, in the current trade process you need to spend hours, basically engage into trade, so obviously it is core of the ''gameplay'', but not really... and yet you did not adress this part of my argument... slick...

I don't spend hours engaging in it. The amount of time I have spent on trading (or thinking about it, or planning for it) is less than 1% of the total time I've spent on this game. Some people are just not interested in trading gameplay, so they do very little of it. Now you will say "oh but now I can spend even less time on it, or get more out of the little time I spend on it". That is superficial.

Here's the main point, a more sophisticated trading system won't do much to the <1% time I spend on trading, nor will it do much for the tiny amount of stuff I get from trading, but it will do a lot for someone who spends 50% of their time trading and shifts a significant amount of stuff through trading. So what are we really talking here? A shift in gameplay to something more trading oriented. A re-weighting of options in favour of trading, when a player is deciding which activities are best engaged in to progress through the game. That's what this is all about.

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What I want, is to NOT watch flashing text endlessly, just so i can sell my NovaP Systems for 10 fckin plat, thank you very much...

No, i just want an enjoyable trade method in a videogame. Is that too much to ask for?! Apparently so...

I have come to realise that this is the main problem... touche!

If you don't like trading, don't do (much of) it. Why are you spending hours to get 10p? Do you, or do you not like trading? The one contradicting themselves is you. You don't like it, but you spend lots of your time on it, tell others that they should want to trade, and that they should enjoy it.

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Who the fck does not want to enjoy their trading? If you are gonna delv into trading, i think it only makes sense if you would like to have a good time doing it, in a videogame no less... dam dem masochists...

It is in your best of interest to want to trade, except for if you have pockets that never end.

This about sums it up, doesn't it. Other people are different to you and that's just weird! Those people are strange! Aliens!

Edited by schilds
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On 25.1.2017 at 5:46 AM, ChuckMaverick said:

I have no problem with systems to make manual trading more efficient, but it shouldn't be "list it and forget it".

I think "list and forget" could work nicely if you limit number of items that can be listed at any time per player (MR * 2). That would reduce spam. Prices of listed items cannot be changed and each listing has an expiry date of say 30 days. - Once you reached the max number of items that are to be listed you have to wait for a sale or the expiry date. 

And to make it more attractive for DE we could have a transaction fee that is 10% of the plat that is being paid.

And to make even more attractive for DE: All Items bought through this system are not tradable. Professional trading would be stopped.

Edited by k05h
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3 minutes ago, k05h said:

I think "list and forget" could work nicely if you limit number of items that can be listed at any time per player (MR * 2). That would reduce spam. Prices of listed items cannot be changed and each listing has an expiry date of say 30 days.

Make the expiry time 30 minutes and it might be worth consideration.

4 minutes ago, k05h said:

And to make it more attractive for DE we could have a transaction fee that is 10% of the plat that is being paid.

You'd have to round up the trade tax to avoid 0p tax items, so the majority of items would end up with an effective 50% plat tax selling at 2p each.

4 minutes ago, k05h said:

And to make even more attractive for DE: All Items bought through this system are not tradable. 

I don't see the point of this, with most items priced at 2p there'd be no scope for scalpers to make plat from trading anyway, so no reason to implement an unnecessary system.

I still think it's a bad idea.

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1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said:

If centrally set minimum prices were enforced on an auction house, people would just undercut those prices in trade chat.

And? What will be the incentive to use the trade chat for anything except item for item, when the marketplace is operational?

''The prices will be lower'' Not if everyone sells their stuff in the marketplace, as they should, as it will prevent rip offs in the low spectrum...

1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Good luck shifting your Nova Prime Systems that is listed on the auction house for 40p alongside hundreds of other identically priced lots. Even if one does sell, the chance that it'll be yours that sells is tiny.

So... you mentioned the low chance of the seller getting his item bought, but what you did NOT mention is that now items will sell for proper prices, and that you will be able to list your items and go back to playing the game... you cnow the actual part of playing the game...

Even if there is a very tiny chance my item gets sold, it will be much better, atleast for me personally, rather than watching walls of text, just to sell something dirt cheap.

1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said:

And all the smart buyers will be buying the item for 30-35p in trade chat from sellers who want to ensure that they get the plat and don't want to rely on the AH lottery.

That is up to them, if it goes down that road people that want to suffer to sell stuff for 0p can go and do that, that is their choice... they have free will. The important thing however is that, there is an alternative to that, and i am sure alot of people approve of alternatives...

 

36 minutes ago, schilds said:

Actually, it was, nice try tho...

If I say something is "bigger", that doesn't mean it used to be big, or even that is big now, it just means it has grown, relatively. If I say something is "more sophisticated" than it used to be, that's an expression of relative sophistication, it's moving from the less sophisticated end of the scale to the more sophisticated end.

Oh please, give me a fckin break... i don't want to get into semantics here, but don't try to pass ''sophisticated'' as ''developed''... Sophisticated suggests ''harder to use'', as in ''it takes more skill to use''. Don't try to proxy what you should not.

40 minutes ago, schilds said:

I don't spend hours engaging in it. The amount of time I have spent on trading (or thinking about it, or planning for it) is less than 1% of the total time I've spent on this game. Some people are just not interested in trading gameplay, so they do very little of it.

Alright, YOU did not spend hours doing trade... that does not mean others have aswell... Sometimes it can take a few minutes and sometimes even hours, the point is that, it can take hours, and not on a very few occasions, well, except if you basically gift the item to the buyer...

45 minutes ago, schilds said:

Now you will say "oh but now I can spend even less time on it, or get more out of the little time I spend on it". That is superficial.

It is not superficial coz it matters. The time and effort you put into trading matters, maybe not to you, but you are not everybody.

47 minutes ago, schilds said:

Here's the main point, a more sophisticated trading system won't do much to the <1% time I spend on trading, nor will it do much for the tiny amount of stuff I get from trading, but it will do a lot for someone who spends 50% of their time trading and shifts a significant amount of stuff through trading. So what are we really talking here? A shift in gameplay to something more trading oriented. A re-weighting of options in favour of trading, when a player is deciding which activities are best engaged in to progress through the game. That's what this is all about.

There are no-life traders now and there will be no-life traders if the marketplace is made... So... what's your point?

''A shift in gameplay to something more trading oriented.''

Actually it is a shift towards something less trade oriented, as with a marketplace you wont have to spend hours(arguably) to trade.

The progress is indifferent, you can buy prime parts with plat now for your progres, and nothing about that will change with a marketplace.

52 minutes ago, schilds said:

If you don't like trading, don't do (much of) it. Why are you spending hours to get 10p?

I don't do much of it, but here is the thing... i kinda have to, as not everything can be farmed in missions, and everything that is farmed in missions is supposed to be selled, thus the trade system exists.

Why am i spending hours for 10p? Oh i dont know... Because i need platinum?!

55 minutes ago, schilds said:

Do you, or do you not like trading? The one contradicting themselves is you. You don't like it, but you spend lots of your time on it,

I like to sell the items i farm, Yes! Do i like the trade system in the game, No!

Basically i lake trading, but not the method of trading in the current system, does that make more sense to you?

I don't spend lots of time on it, nor do i want to, except i kinda have to... thus i don't like it, does that make more sense?

Also, i've never said anyone is contradicting themselves in the thread so far, so you saying ''the one contradicting themselves is you'' is plainly putting words in my mouth, good job...

59 minutes ago, schilds said:

tell others that they should want to trade, and that they should enjoy it.

I never said other people should ''want to trade'', ever... i'm not a dictator, nor do i have a desire to be one, what i did say, which you misinterpreted to make me look bad, is that ''It is in their best interest to want to trade''... Nowhere in that statement am i imposing my will onto other people...

As for ''they should enjoy it'', that is a speculation, not an attemp to impose my will, as even if i wanted to, which i don't, I would easily fail... Saying 'they should enjoy it' is no different than saying 'they should not enjoy it' if they were to put their hand in fire... It is just an assumption, but one with a good chance of being on point, that is all...

Furthermore, should they not enjoy an activity in a videogame, arbitrarily/ subjectively they should. Shouldn't they?

1 hour ago, schilds said:

This about sums it up, doesn't it. Other people are different to you and that's just weird! Those people are strange! Aliens!

Can you make a proper argument? ''Oh other people are different... aliens...'', You trying to mock me is perfectly fine, twisting my words not so much, alas those do not help your argument, nor are they a substitution of one... Have at it...

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1 minute ago, kleerr2 said:

And? What will be the incentive to use the trade chat for anything except item for item, when the marketplace is operational?

For buyers, the prices will be cheaper, for sellers, their stuff will actually sell.

2 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

''The prices will be lower'' Not if everyone sells their stuff in the marketplace, as they should, as it will prevent rip offs in the low spectrum...

"as they should"? And you're advocating centrally-set pricing?

I think I see what sort of economic philosophy is behind these proposals now, just look at the real world to see how well command economies do when compared to free markets.

5 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

So... you mentioned the low chance of the seller getting his item bought, but what you did NOT mention is that now items will sell for proper prices, and that you will be able to list your items and go back to playing the game... you cnow the actual part of playing the game...

Even if there is a very tiny chance my item gets sold, it will be much better, atleast for me personally, rather than watching walls of text, just to sell something dirt cheap.

What's a "proper price" by your definition?

If your 'proper price' is higher than the current market value, then virtually nothing will sell via the AH as trades from chat will still happen at the lower, true market value.

If your 'proper price' is lower than the current market value, then yes, an AH will lower the price (except for limited availability items, those will go through the roof), but most sales will still happen outside of the AH as sellers offer lower prices than the AH limit to ensure their item actually sells.

That you even think there is a 'proper price' different to the one a free market sets just demonstrates that you don't understand how economies work.

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No. A million times no.

There's one of theses threads every couple weeks and the answer is the same: auction houses ruin economies like Warframe's by collapsing the price of relatively common items and skyrocketing the prices of the rarest ones. I'd rather have a good riven cost a couple thousand plat, not tens of thousands, thank you very much.

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