Reworking Dark Sectors

[Atriek]

Intro

I have seen many comments about not liking the current Dark Sector system, and I have no love for it myself, but I haven't found any thread really addressing it. Please feel free to point out other threads that do discuss it. I'm posting it in the dojo section because it is clan related, and my ideas may involve changes to the dojo. I welcome any feedback you have. As a disclaimer, I have been inspired by things I've seen by others (although I am not intentionally copying anyone), but as they say, we are all standing on the shoulders of giants. Thanks in advance for reading my wall of text!

 

Dark Sectors

Dark Sectors are simply infested(usually) nodes that can be vaguely controlled by an alliance to set up a toll, if they so desire.  As designed, these conflicts pitch tenno vs. tenno, which, while a valid creative decision by DE, is one I disagree with and which goes against the other core gameplay styles. Both of these functions are on hold during the armistice. 

I believe these nodes should be in conflict between the infested and the tenno. The conflicts for the dark sector would be identical to an infested invasion, where you can support the alliance defending/attacking the node, or not participate (no one helps the infested). While an alliance owns a Dark Sector, no other alliance can attack that node. The point is to avoid Tenno vs. Tenno conflict, while still giving honor to those who hold these nodes. Instead, the infested would mount periodic counterattacks against the alliance in control of the node. So the cost of an alliance holding a node would be enduring the periodic counterattacks.

The difficulty of an attack/defense of a given Dark Sector would scale with the node. The difficulty of the Dark Sectors should be proportional to the standard nodes of the planet, perhaps twice as difficult. The rewards would also scale, XP and credits always going up, while the type of resources available would change as well. So instead of the current resource booster, perhaps a 2x booster for certain resources: common ones on lower level nodes, like alloy plate and circuits, and rarer ones at higher levels, like polymer bundles and mutagen samples. Hopefully, both of these factors scaling would incentivize the larger alliances to go fight for the harder nodes instead of just camping on the easier nodes, which might allow smaller alliances to try and hold the easier nodes. 

While a Dark Sector is owned by the infested, it is unavailable to normal play. While the Dark Sector is owned by an alliance, it would function the same as it currently does: an infested(usually) mission that gives the players some bonuses. The main difference is that for the alliance that owns the Dark Sector, their solar rail will act as an extractor, collecting resources for the clan vault (especially useful if DE keeps making research more and more expensive). 

 

Dark Sector Conflicts

Regardless of whether attacking or defending, the infested invasion would start at 50%, since the infested may actually win. No one may support the infested, but they will have a certain strength, such as 1%/hour. I don't have numbers on exactly how invasions work now, but nodes could be made harder either by increasing the infestation strength (like 2%/hour) or by increasing the number of successful tenno missions needed to gain 1%. The mission type would be randomized between Exterminate, Defense, Mobile Defense, Phorid Manefestation, Survival, and defending the normal Solar Rail Conflict mission(minus the PvP modifications). During all mission types that aren't the Solar Rail defense, Specters from available Specter Regiments can be supplied to assist, just as syndicates provide 2 operatives. The mission type would shift every 15 minutes, as during a normal invasion. As during a current Solar Rail Conflict, the alliance can offer a reward for supporting them during the conflict. The alliance should be able to set a different reward for each mission type, to avoid the no-one-plays-defense-invasions problem. Players would still get the reward after each run, and it would not cap at 3. Members of the alliance would not be able to get the reward, they fight for glory! 

 

Owned Dark Sectors

If the infested own the Dark Sector, it is inaccessible.

While an alliance owns a Dark Sector, no other alliance can attack it. Everyone will now be able to access the node mission, with the associated bonuses to XP, credits, etc. The controlling alliance can implement a tribute, but not exceeding the bonus on the map, so that playing the node is still beneficial. The biggest benefit for the controlling alliance is using the solar rail as an extractor. The Dark Sectors would each have resources available to be extracted that are rare, or in greater quantities than normal. The quantity that is extracted is proportional to the size of the alliance. The extractor would need to be emptied every 4 hours by an alliance tactician. All tribute and extracted resources are divided among the clans according to size, as they currently do. The specific resources available at the each Dark Sector should correspond with the host planet, while going beyond by offering other resources like Nitain Extract or Tellurium (at DE's discretion). These resources are only available to the extractor. This would also allow DE to raise the research prices even more, to encourage alliances to take a Dark Sector.

 

Infested Counterattacks

The actual conflict triggered runs exactly like the Dark Sector Conflicts laid out above. The only difference is that the timing is randomized, giving the infested the element of surprise. The counterattack will occur between 5-10 days after the Tenno victory. This should give the node a semblance of stability for those uninterested in fighting for it, and time to restore solar rail defenses and budgets for another fight, as well as reap the benefits of the victory. The window is also large enough that it's hard to be on-game and prepared for the counterattack. If budgets are not set in advance, there will be no reward for helping tenno until one is set. Any extraction in progress is lost.

 

Other Expansions on This Theme

This would open the door on a few other possibilities that I haven't thought of, or that I haven't really fleshed out, or that are just extra shiny as opposed to game-changing, but here are a few:

• Clan missions could be created to run on the node while owned by an alliance, possibly to repair/reclaim parts of the solar rail.
• It would be awesome if some of the conflict missions could be on the solar rail tileset. Also, if the solar rails were even more customizable....
• After a Solar Rail Conflict, the solar rail is damaged based on how long the conflict lasted. Starting a conflict with a damaged rail gives the infested a boosted strength (like 1.2%/hour instead of 1%/hour). There would be replace and recycle options.
• Maybe allow multiple clans within the alliance to connect solar rails to the Dark Sector, increasing defenses during Solar Rail Conflicts, and increasing regiment sizes
• A counterattack "interrupts" any ongoing missions by dramatically increasing the number(or difficulty, to the invasion level) of infested enemies, and with the Lotus offering extraction so as to not lose any gained progress. On defense, the change may be gradual, and regiment specters can be sent to make sure players can still complete the mission, but should leave at the next stopping point, or they will face the full wrath.
• Alliances could also use solar rails to attack nodes that aren't dark sectors. This could mostly follow the current Solar Rail Conflict rules, except that the other solar rail is owned by the corpus/grineer.
• Perhaps owning Dark Sectors would contribute to a Tenno project, like rebuilding relays.

 

Final Words

This took a while to write, so I'm sure I've missed some details that I thought I had covered. Please feel free to comment if I did, or share any other feedback you have. Thanks for reading!

Edited April 17, 2017 by Atriek

[--RV--Shadow]

Its really shame that this guy put some work on writing this down on 25 jan and yet theres like 88 views and no feedback looks like im gonna be first

 

So i am on my mobile so it womt be long

BUT

I definetly want this in game from my point of view dark sector and solar rails are on same level like conclave is...its played like...meh we know this feature is in game...meh lets play it so we can have it done...meh..meh..okay done..

 

Im playing warframe for about 3 years now and i was on solar rail battle like...once?!..yeah once..or twice maybe..

Same goes for conclave what i want to say is that its not played so often and thats why DE should look at this post and take some ideas from it to make dark sectors more fun to play

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 1/25/2017 at 1:07 PM, Atriek said:

Intro

I have seen many comments about not liking the current Dark Sector system, and I have no love for it myself, but I haven't found any thread really addressing it. Please feel free to point out other threads that do discuss it. I'm posting it in the dojo section because it is clan related, and my ideas may involve changes to the dojo. I welcome any feedback you have. As a disclaimer, I have been inspired by things I've seen by others (although I am not intentionally copying anyone), but as they say, we are all standing on the shoulders of giants.

 

Dark Sectors

Right now, these are simply infested(usually) nodes that can be vaguely controlled by an alliance to set up a toll, if they so desire. It seems that the alliances have realized that if they charge no toll, other alliances see no need to replace them. This makes them unprofitable for the alliance, and makes what was supposed to be a fluid aspect of the game be very stagnant. Also, as designed, these conflicts pitch tenno vs. tenno, which, while a valid creative decision by DE, is one I disagree with and which goes against the other core gameplay styles. 

I believe these nodes should be in conflict between the infested and the tenno. The conflicts for the dark sector would be identical to an infested invasion, where you can support the alliance defending/attacking the node, or not participate (no one helps the infested). While an alliance owns a Dark Sector, no other alliance can attack that node. The point is to avoid Tenno vs. Tenno conflict, while still giving honor to those who hold these nodes. Instead, the infested would mount periodic counterattacks against the alliance in control of the node. So the cost of an alliance holding a node would be enduring the periodic counterattacks. The difficulty of an attack/defense of a given Dark Sector would scale with the node, as would the rewards, incentivizing the larger alliances to go fight for the harder nodes instead of just camping on the easier nodes, which might allow smaller alliances to try and hold the easier nodes. 

While a Dark Sector is owned by the infested, it is unavailable to normal play. While the Dark Sector is owned by an alliance, it would function the same as it currently does: an infested(usually) mission that gives the players some bonuses. The main difference is that for the alliance that owns the Dark Sector, their solar rail will act as an extractor, collecting resources for the clan vault (especially useful if DE keeps making research more and more expensive). 

 

Dark Sector Conflicts

Regardless of whether attacking or defending, the infested invasion would start at 50%, since the infested may actually win. No one may support the infested, but they will have a certain strength, such as 1%/hour. I don't have numbers on exactly how invasions work now, but nodes could be made harder either by increasing the infestation strength (like 2%/hour) or by increasing the number of successful tenno missions needed to gain 1%. The mission type would be randomized between Exterminate, Defense, Mobile Defense, Phorid Manefestation, Survival, and defending the normal Solar Rail Conflict mission(minus the PvP modifications). During all mission types that aren't the Solar Rail defense, Specters from available Specter Regiments can be supplied to assist, just as syndicates provide 2 operatives. The mission type would shift every 15 minutes, as during a normal invasion. As during a current Solar Rail Conflict, the alliance can offer a reward for supporting them during the conflict. The alliance should be able to set a different reward for each mission type, to avoid the no-one-plays-defense-invasions problem. Players would still get the reward after each run, and it would not cap at 3. Members of the alliance would not be able to get the reward, they fight for glory! 

 

Owned Dark Sectors

If the infested own the Dark Sector, it is inaccessible.

While an alliance owns a Dark Sector, no other alliance can attack it. Everyone will now be able to access the node mission, with the associated bonuses to XP, credits, etc. The controlling alliance can implement a tribute, but not exceeding the bonus on the map, so that playing the node is still beneficial. The biggest benefit for the controlling alliance is using the solar rail as an extractor. The Dark Sectors would each have resources available to be extracted that are rare, or in greater quantities than normal. The quantity that is extracted is proportional to the size of the alliance. The extractor would need to be emptied every 4 hours by an alliance tactician. All tribute and extracted resources are divided among the clans according to size, as they currently do. The specific resources available at the each Dark Sector should correspond with the host planet, while going beyond by offering other resources like Nitain Extract or Tellurium (at DE's discretion). This would also allow DE to raise the research prices even more, to encourage alliances to take a Dark Sector.

 

Infested Counterattacks

The actual conflict triggered runs exactly like the Dark Sector Conflicts laid out above. The only difference is that the timing is randomized, giving the infested the element of surprise. The counterattack will occur between 5-10 days after the Tenno victory. This should give the node a semblance of stability for those uninterested in fighting for it, and time to restore solar rail defenses and budgets for another fight, as well as reap the benefits of the victory. The window is also large enough that it's hard to be on-game and prepared for the counterattack. If budgets are not set in advance, there will be no reward for helping tenno until one is set. Any extraction in progress is lost.

 

Other Expansions on This Theme

This would open the door on a few other possibilities that I haven't thought of, or that I haven't really fleshed out, or that are just extra shiny as opposed to game-changing, but here are a few:

• Clan missions could be created to run on the node while owned by an alliance, possibly to repair/reclaim parts of the solar rail.
• It would be awesome if some of the conflict missions could be on the solar rail tileset. Also, if the solar rails were even more customizable....
• After a Solar Rail Conflict, the solar rail is damaged based on how long the conflict lasted. Starting a conflict with a damaged rail gives the infested a boosted strength (like 1.2%/hour instead of 1%/hour). There would be replace and recycle options, or repair in place by rebuilding rooms/defenses/regiments.
• Maybe allow multiple clans within the alliance to connect solar rails to the Dark Sector, increasing defenses during Solar Rail Conflicts, and increasing regiment sizes
• A counterattack "interrupts" any ongoing missions by dramatically increasing the number of infested enemies, and with the Lotus offering extraction so as to not lose any gained progress. (Not 100% sure how defense would work)
• Alliances could also use solar rails to attack nodes that aren't dark sectors. This could mostly follow the current Solar Rail Conflict rules, except that the other solar rail is owned by the corpus/grineer.
• Perhaps owning Dark Sectors would contribute to a Tenno project, like rebuilding relays.

 

Final Words

This took a while to write, so I'm sure I've missed some details that I thought I had covered. Please feel free to comment if I did, or share any other feedback you have.

 

On 2/27/2017 at 3:17 PM, Sh4d0wCZ said:

Its really shame that this guy put some work on writing this down on 25 jan and yet theres like 88 views and no feedback looks like im gonna be first

 

So i am on my mobile so it womt be long

BUT

I definetly want this in game from my point of view dark sector and solar rails are on same level like conclave is...its played like...meh we know this feature is in game...meh lets play it so we can have it done...meh..meh..okay done..

 

Im playing warframe for about 3 years now and i was on solar rail battle like...once?!..yeah once..or twice maybe..

Same goes for conclave what i want to say is that its not played so often and thats why DE should look at this post and take some ideas from it to make dark sectors more fun to play

You guys know that rails have been disabled for over 2 years now, right ? The reason alliances have 0% taxes is because it is DE enforced.

[Atriek]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)CFE Discord said:

 

You guys know that rails have been disabled for over 2 years now, right ? The reason alliances have 0% taxes is because it is DE enforced.

I did not know that the 0% tax was DE enforced, but I did know that the rails were disabled. I'm not making suggestions because nothing is happening now, I'm making suggestions because I felt there were flaws with it when it WAS around, but I liked it enough that I'd rather improve it than get rid of it as DE has done.

I'm a huge fan of the dynamic universe. I like the changes they've made to invasions to make them more meaningful. I really hope the Dark Sector disabling is temporary, especially since it's the namesake of DE's precursor to Warframe.

[--RV--Shadow]

I heard and saw that something is going on on DE side that touches Clan system mentioning War Table room and ClanTastic system i just wanted to say that theese improvements mentioned above are really not bad and i would love to see them happen ofc if there was solar rails and dark sector system back online 

[Dr.Sturgeon]

Yea lol, Dark Sectors have been down for two years. People started getting insanely toxic. They were death threats and clans harassing clans. I think It was good dark sectors were taken down initially but I don't want them down permanentley. They were so much fun. It would be cool if they made a new solar system for the sake of Clan v Clan (or alliances as well)   

[(XBOX)Keithen A59]

I like to think that mom is using the solar rails to do something. Like create a rail to that system we had the Sentients terraform. You could use that to explain both why the rails were down and greatly expand the game. Shhhhh. Let me dream.

[Atriek]

On 3/23/2017 at 8:13 PM, Dr.Sturgeon said:

Yea lol, Dark Sectors have been down for two years. People started getting insanely toxic. They were death threats and clans harassing clans. I think It was good dark sectors were taken down initially but I don't want them down permanentley. They were so much fun. It would be cool if they made a new solar system for the sake of Clan v Clan (or alliances as well)   

Wow, death threats? Hmmm, we want to avoid competition then. Maybe having the dark sectors not be tenno vs. tenno, like I've suggested, would be better. :D

On 3/25/2017 at 3:46 PM, (Xbox One)Keithen A59 said:

I like to think that mom is using the solar rails to do something. Like create a rail to that system we had the Sentients terraform. You could use that to explain both why the rails were down and greatly expand the game. Shhhhh. Let me dream.

I mean, there's a ton of lore that they've hinted at, like the other system, Ordis and the cephalons, and the colonies that could all be fleshed out to expand the universe. I'd love to talk about it, but it's not relevant to this thread.

The way I've suggested Dark Sectors to go, they would either be owned by the infested or the tenno. The two year armistice could easily be explained by the fact that the clans are more united, and that the infestation has been kept at bay. Now, if the infested were to start growing in power suddenly, perhaps due to the Sentients, it would explain the rise of the new system quite nicely.

[--Blame--]

I like the idea of endurance the players on darksector nodule to keep the Solar Rail lives longer... but if you remove the Alliance vs Alliance factor you kill 50% of the motivation. 

[Talonflight]

I love the idea OP, the only problem I can see with it though is that there's a hell of a lot of endgame players in warframe right now who can simply steamroll through entire hordes of infested solo. Especially in a public mission that adds to a meter like that, I just see no possible way for the infested to ever actually TAKE a node and thus cause a change in ownership; because once you've got your first forma'd frame, they fall down like butter. Thats why the old PvP system worked, because it was PvP; you could fight equally intelligent enemies, with equal gear (thanks to being level scaled) and equal weapons (Mostly; a few balance problems DID exist but thats more DE's fault).

In order for a thing like that to work there needs to be an actual possibility for player failure instead of sending in 3 Embers standing AFK around the defense point with WoF on. 

[Atriek]

I have wondered about player motivation myself.

On 4/16/2017 at 3:49 AM, --Blame-- said:

I like the idea of endurance the players on darksector nodule to keep the Solar Rail lives longer... but if you remove the Alliance vs Alliance factor you kill 50% of the motivation. 

While I personally like the idea of fighting just to help the system, I understand that most players are not so altruistic. XD  

My plan was that the rewards for having these nodes open would be significant enough to motivate players. Already many dark sectors, like Akkad on Eris and Heiracon on Pluto, are some of the most popular nodes because of the rewards for going there. If we increase the rewards for these nodes, making them irresistible, I'm quite certain a number of people would gladly fight to keep them open. 

On 4/16/2017 at 8:53 AM, Talonflight said:

I love the idea OP, the only problem I can see with it though is that there's a hell of a lot of endgame players in warframe right now who can simply steamroll through entire hordes of infested solo. Especially in a public mission that adds to a meter like that, I just see no possible way for the infested to ever actually TAKE a node and thus cause a change in ownership; because once you've got your first forma'd frame, they fall down like butter. Thats why the old PvP system worked, because it was PvP; you could fight equally intelligent enemies, with equal gear (thanks to being level scaled) and equal weapons (Mostly; a few balance problems DID exist but thats more DE's fault).

In order for a thing like that to work there needs to be an actual possibility for player failure instead of sending in 3 Embers standing AFK around the defense point with WoF on. 

I also realize this could be problem. I wanted to allow everyone to be able to participate, which is why some of them would be easier. And yes, high level players could still go and easily own the lower level ones. However, the rewards for lower level ones should be such that high level players wouldn't really care to do so. 

The difficulty I had in mind would be something like 2-3 times the difficulty of the standard nodes on the planet. This would put Sedna Dark Sectors near level 100, which while not impossible, should avoid being butter. Especially to Embers, who don't scale the best. The normal enemies on the node, when owned by the Tenno, wouldn't be that difficult, just the actual invasion forces. Of course, I don't want to make it so hard that players don't think it's worth it to take the nodes. My numbers need some playtesting and balancing.

[--Blame--]

8 hours ago, Atriek said:

While I personally like the idea of fighting just to help the system, I understand that most players are not so altruistic. XD 

yeah, i rule one alliance and i just want kick some other alliances to be honest, its all about put your army x other army to test endurance